A warning to Nokia N-Series and 3 customers

rogue-entity

Since January 2007 I am the owner of a 3-branded Nokia N73. Until recently all was fine and good, but I noticed that even when leaving the phone on standby, the battery charge level was dropping rather quickly. At first, a fully charged battery would last me a week for the odd call, or text. But recently, I had fully charged the phone 2 days ago and it went dead this morning.

I brought the phone to the Nokia centre to have them test it, the battery is fine, the problem lies solely with the flimsey charger they supply in the kit, the one with the flat cable and the skinny connecter on the end. Apparently those chargers are not intended for repeated use, and were ment to be used as a travel charger, according to the guy in the NSC. They told me that some networks were taking out the adaptor cable you get with the phone to use the older nokia chargers with the thicker connectors to sell them on for money, but, you are supposed to go out and buy a larger nokia charger, seperatly and use the adaptor cable supplied to charge your phone. Rediculous or what.

I examined the charger cable, and it does look like it was damaged at one end alright, so I broke out the old charger for my 6680 and will see how that goes.

The guy at the NSC also told me that the software on the phone plays a part in the battery life and slammed 3's firmware for being pretty bad, and he also went on to tell me that 3 will be locking out the GSM features on the handsets so that once you roam outside a 3 area, no more roaming to Vodafone. And, he told me that 3 dont own their own masts, that they are renting them from Vodafone.

Now, I have tended to take everything told to me by the guys at the NSC with a large grain of salt, especially since I am of the extreme doubt that 3 would setup a national 3G network and then rent the base stations from Vodafone.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Urban Weigl

3 don't rent the masts from Vodafone, but rather from BT Ireland. The blurb from the time: "Esat BT said it signed a $166.4 million deal with 3 Ireland to build and operate its third-generation radio access network. Esat BT will be responsible for building and operating all elements of the radio access network, including radio planning, site acquisition and construction."

Perhaps he was mixing up Vodafone and BT Ireland?

Sponge Bob

maybe BT hired some masts off Voda then

The forthcoming x series , like the new 10Gb 3 data package , will be a 3g only product which will not roam to Voda and the N73 will be an x series phone from next month or the next when the x series is formally launched . Other phones will also be x series

http://xseries.three.com/

It all fits together for me so shouts to the NSC guy.

Were one to get another 3 sim now ...just in case...one should be able to avoid this problem <cough> .

That adapter fits on a classic fast charger . Thank grud !

rogue-entity

Well, all I will say again is, dont through out your classic fast-chargers. I still have the 800mA ACP-12X charger, works on 100-240V, great stuff. There are also several "classic" chargers lying around the house, so I had no shortage of replacement chargers. What I will say though is, if you have one of those classic fast-chargers, keep it, it will give a proper charge to those newer nokia phones if you have an adaptor cable. For comparason, the supplied travel charger with my N73 is a 155mA charger. It bugs me to no end that neither Nokia, nor 3 thought to supply a proper charger instead of that flimsy one. For the sake of a few measily cent.

Second, Sponge Bob, X-Series and 3's mobile broadband services have only ever been 3G-Only. And I would imagine that all 3's future handsets will be HSDPA compatible, and will take full advantage of that service, albeit only within 3G coverage. This I knew already. What had me thinking was, will 3 just scrap the 2G backup service once its Vodafone contract expires, or will it just renew with a cheaper provider, like O2.

If 3 start disabling the ability to use GSM networks on their handsets using their SIM cards, it renders the phones useless to travelers heading to the US. The only reason I waited so long to get my N73 instead of settling for a cheaper handset like the N70 was for the QuadBand GSM since I travel to the US often, and you get better reception with a Quadband handset.

Thankfully, replacing 3's restricted firmware with proper Nokia Firmware is trivial.

Sponge Bob

Ah OK , I though the original data ( per mb stuff) fell back to voda gprs , thanks, and its a safe bet to assume HSDPA will be a standard handset feature by christmas.

You wont be able to cross Ireland never mind the atlantic if there is no gsm fallback .

jimmycrackcorm

Three have dropped the N73 from their list of phones available now.

Urban Weigl

I very much doubt 3 will completely disable GSM on their handsets. It is likely however that new contracts will at some point no longer be able to roam onto Vodafone's network, while old contracts will still be able to do so, at least until they are renewed.

Sponge Bob

thats why I SUGGESTED getting a sim today ...in case their new sims suddenly bar 2g roaming as standard . Its possible they might go down that road.

Bulmers

rogue-entity wrote:

no more roaming to Vodafone. And, he told me that 3 dont own their own masts, that they are renting them from Vodafone.

Not true, 3 ( like meteor) have had to build their network on their own without using Voda or O2 infrastructure, i would guess they might be on a few but not many..towns mainly are rooftops, buildings etc anyway.

BT only build and operate the network, nothing to do with BT masts ( if they even have any). 3 own their own network AFAIK.

If you think about it, why would Voda give 3 access to all their masts/sites anyway to build, would be making it very easy for the competition, Voda would more likely make it as difficult as possible for 3 to use their sites, so much so that 3 would have not choice but to go on their own

rogue-entity wrote:

Now, I have tended to take everything told to me by the guys at the NSC with a large grain of salt, especially since I am of the extreme doubt that 3 would setup a national 3G network and then rent the base stations from Vodafone.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

3 would never disable the 2G roaming, commercial suicide. They have not done it in the UK in the last 5yrs ( i believe they have signed another roaming deal there recently)..there is no way on earth they would do this.

Also, as far as I remember, 3 submitted in their tender for the 3G licence that one of the incumbents (Voda/O2) must provide them 2G roaming, this was accepted by comreg

Sponge Bob

Bulmers wrote:

If you think about it, why would Voda give 3 access to all their masts/sites anyway to build, would be making it very easy for the competition, Voda would more likely make it as difficult as possible for 3 to use their sites, so much so that 3 would have not choice but to go on their own

Most masts that get planning permission nowadays come with a mandatory sharing clause. They have no choice is the simple answer.

Bulmers

Sponge Bob wrote:

Most masts that get planning permission nowadays come with a mandatory sharing clause. They have no choice is the simple answer.

nope, not true. It's up to whoever owns the mast to allow other operators on it (and planning restrictions for the initial grant, i.e. may notbe allowed exceed a certain width etc) and it's mainly done on a 1-for-1 basis, based on which, what could 3 give Voda they dont already have?

But i'm nearly sure there are no manadatory sharing clauses coming from planning authorities.

There are plenty of ways anyway to build a network, garda masts, RTE masts, eircom masts, hotels, buildings, office blocks, apartment blocks...anyone of these is always available

Sam Vimes

Bulmers wrote:

nope, not true. It's up to whoever owns the mast to allow other operators on it (and planning restrictions for the initial grant, i.e. may notbe allowed exceed a certain width etc) and it's mainly done on a 1-for-1 basis, based on which, what could 3 give Voda they dont already have?

But i'm nearly sure there are no manadatory sharing clauses coming from planning authorities.

there are. as for what 3 could give vodafone, money. the main networks are required to allow the smaller operators to use their masts but can charge them for it

Bulmers

Commander Vimes wrote:

there are. as for what 3 could give vodafone, money. the main networks are required to allow the smaller operators to use their masts but can charge them for it

who requires them to open them up for use? comreg? Enforcements like this exist in fixed line market (eircom LLU etc), but not in mobile.

Personally I dont think so as it doesn't make sense, Voda would make it as difficult as possible for 3 to use their sites, so much so, it would be easier for them to go and build on their own more or less and this can be done without them + Voda would probably want high rental costs aswell.

Random

"Personally I dont think so as it doesn't make sense"

Would Vodafone rather compete with someone operating on their own with their own masts? Or would they rather have 3 pay them for all their competing traffic going through their masts?

I'd choose the latter as a Vodafone person. It becomes a win/win to an extent for Vodafone.

Bulmers

ciaranfo wrote:

"Personally I dont think so as it doesn't make sense"

Would Vodafone rather compete with someone operating on their own with their own masts? Or would they rather have 3 pay them for all their competing traffic going through their masts?

I'd choose the latter as a Vodafone person. It becomes a win/win to an extent for Vodafone.

agreed, when written like that, makes sense, but not the way it is done, attitusde of Voda/O2 would be not to easily open up their sites, it really is 1-for-1 swap as one operator doesn't want to give an edge to the other basically.

For instance, Voda might have a mast in a town of say 5000 pop, mast is in middle of the town since old eircell days. Town has now grown, planning restrictions tighter and difficult to get to build in the town ( smallish town so no major office blocks/hotels etc) Why would Voda allow anyone to provide coverage from this mast when they more or less have a monopoly in the town? They wouldn't.

Above example is over exaggerated but done to make the point.

Anyway gone off topic on this one

1) 3 are not using Voda masts, or if they are, very few
2) I cant see 2G roaming being switched off.

Sam Vimes

Bulmers wrote:

Personally I dont think so as it doesn't make sense, Voda would make it as difficult as possible for 3 to use their sites, so much so, it would be easier for them to go and build on their own more or less and this can be done without them + Voda would probably want high rental costs aswell.

this is true. if vodafone could, they'd make it as difficult as possible for other networks, which is why they were required to let other networks use their masts. meteor used to roam onto o2, now they roam onto vodafone where they don't have coverage. in the summer, tesco mobile is launching and will be operating entirely on o2's network. its called an mvno (mobile virtual network operator)

Bulmers wrote:

1) 3 are not using Voda masts, or if they are, very few

you are definitely wrong on this. i was working in a phone shop when 3 ireland first launched and i was trained about the network by their representatives. you're contradicting what 3 ireland themselves said


they have 80% 3g coverage. they build only 3g masts. they advertise 99.5% coverage. if they're not using vodafone masts, how do you explain this?

three.ie wrote:

3's coverage is made up of two kinds of service area: a rapidly expanding 3G video service area which covers 80% of the population and a national voice and text service area (2G/2.5G) that covers 99.5% of the population.

http://www.three.ie/coverage/index.htm


and if they're using entirely their own masts, why do they have a tariff for the usb modem that includes 1/3 of the limit for twice the price that can operate on the 2g network? maybe because they have to pay vodafone for it.....?

http://www.three.ie/handsets_new/datacards_e220.htm

Bulmers

Commander Vimes wrote:

they have 80% 3g coverage. they build only 3g masts. they advertise 99.5% coverage. if they're not using vodafone masts, how do you explain this?

Think bit of crossed lines, what i'm talking about is 3 physically installing their equipment on a vodafone mast to give them 3G coverage in an area.

Agreed they are using Vodafone network to give them the extra coverage (2G only) where they have no 3G infrastructure themselves.

In 3s bid for the 3G licence, they stipulated one of the incumbents must allow them to roam onto their 2G network to give them full basic coverage, so this has to be done.

What is not forced on the operators is to allow other operators to use their existing infrastructure/masts, that is what I am saying.

3 could easily tender this roaming agreement out to meteor or o2 aswell once roaming contract is up

Sam Vimes

Bulmers wrote:

Think bit of crossed lines, what i'm talking about is 3 physically installing their equipment on a vodafone mast to give them 3G coverage in an area.

no they're not doing that. 3 ireland customers can connect to vodafone's 2g masts but 3 technical people don't have any access to the masts

Bulmers wrote:

Agreed they are using Vodafone network to give them the extra coverage (2G only) where they have no 3G infrastructure themselves.

that's all i'm saying

Bulmers wrote:

What is not forced on the operators is to allow other operators to use their existing infrastructure/masts, that is what I am saying.

3 could easily tender this roaming agreement out to meteor or o2 aswell once roaming contract is up

it doesn't have to be vodafone no. as we already saw this year meteor switched from o2 to vodafone

Bulmers

Agreed, that's it

Sponge Bob

modern ( post 2004 or so) planning permissions come with a sharing clause

here is an example

http://83.71.207.21/webscans/1123779.pdf

earlier masts do not

foggy_lad

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Three have dropped the N73 from their list of phones available now.

bought one last week but feels like its 3years old firmware is unstable

anthony4335

Got my N73 last march, and it was fine until a couple of weeks ago when the camera stopped working. sent it back to 3 and they updated the software. Now the phone does not work correctly with my pioneer bluetooth car kit. worked fine before the update. Problem is when I go to answer the first call I cannot hear anything, and have to hang up, seems to work after that.