Liverpool fans....

SpAcEd OuT

Milan score first goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs9-9ocVUJs&mode=related&search=

milan score the second goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xhQSuS-cmU&mode=related&search=

liverpool fans charging milan fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAxBzndy8I0

hundreds of cans thrown at fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yze0n5GBi8

Ticketless Liverpool fans stabbing their own in the back by storming the stadium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2_YnFxbeo

theres also videos on sky news of Liverpool fans attacking people, mugging one another, clashing with police and destroying local property

Should Liverpool pay a fine for their fans disgraceful behaviour, this kind of ticket problem happened in 2003 when celtic played seville in the uefa cup final yet the 40,000 celtic fans who werent able to get in didnt cause an ounce of trouble, A lot of the Liverpool fans should be ashamed

shatners basoon

You can't pay a fine for what happens outside a stadium- sure Roma fans stabbed some United fans in Rome didn't they?

A lot of Liverpool fans shouldn't be ashamed, for the most part they're great fans but you're always going to get some drunken idiots. Its a bit stupid imo to simply label it as the club's fault as opposed the actual social issues that are at work- angry drunken (especially- i mean look at the number of cans being thrown!:p) mobs. Being prejudiced is never going to solve any problem, there'll be idiots no matter where you go. However naturally it sickens me that there are people out there like that (especially those that threw the flares) and they should be punished appropriately.

Tusky

Im a big fan of the film Pulp Fiction. Theres alot of scumbags, murderers, rapists and child molestors that are also a fan of the film im sure. Its the same with everything, including Liverpool fc.

They are thugs.

LostinBlanch

Lovely behaviour.

jesus_thats_gre

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Milan score first goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs9-9ocVUJs&mode=related&search=

Disgrace...

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

milan score the second goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xhQSuS-cmU&mode=related&search=

Disgrace...

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

liverpool fans charging milan fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAxBzndy8I0

Disgrace...

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

hundreds of cans thrown at fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yze0n5GBi8

Oh empty cans.. Making a big deal of nothing here buddy..

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Ticketless Liverpool fans stabbing their own in the back by storming the stadium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2_YnFxbeo

Disgrace...

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

theres also videos on sky news of Liverpool fans attacking people, mugging one another, clashing with police and destroying local property

Disgrace...

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Should Liverpool pay a fine for their fans disgraceful behaviour, this kind of ticket problem happened in 2003 when celtic played seville in the uefa cup final yet the 40,000 celtic fans who werent able to get in didnt cause an ounce of trouble, A lot of the Liverpool fans should be ashamed

Yeah.. Am sure 40,000 Celtic fans didn't cause an ounce of trouble.. And you were doing so well...

SpAcEd OuT

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Oh empty cans.. Making a big deal of nothing here buddy..

Empty cans don't fly like that

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Yeah.. Am sure 40,000 Celtic fans didn't cause an ounce of trouble.. And you were doing so well...

Actually they didnt if they did it would have been on a near undectactable scale hence why UEFA gave their fans all those fair play awards

Zebra3

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Milan score first goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs9-9ocVUJs&mode=related&search=

milan score the second goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xhQSuS-cmU&mode=related&search=

liverpool fans charging milan fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAxBzndy8I0

hundreds of cans thrown at fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yze0n5GBi8

Ticketless Liverpool fans stabbing their own in the back by storming the stadium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2_YnFxbeo

theres also videos on sky news of Liverpool fans attacking people, mugging one another, clashing with police and destroying local property

Should Liverpool pay a fine for their fans disgraceful behaviour, this kind of ticket problem happened in 2003 when celtic played seville in the uefa cup final yet the 40,000 celtic fans who werent able to get in didnt cause an ounce of trouble, A lot of the Liverpool fans should be ashamed

I think it's safe to say it was the fault of the Italian police. :rolleyes:

grahamo

You think thats bad. Look what they did to their plane!

Dub13

I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

grahamo

Good job the team bus wasn't damaged.
You couldn't make it up.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007240140,00.html

Thrill

Dub13 wrote:

I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Looks like a troll thread to me. Trying to make pool fans angry and reply with insults. Dont rise to this obvious bait.

grahamo

Dub13 wrote:

I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

I think the point is to show a minority of so called Liverpool fans were way out of order!

Thanx 4 The Fish

I remember when there was trouble at Man U games, Spurs and other british team games it was blamed on the police by many fans on here. Now that the liverpool fans have been involved it is bigger than anything. A bit of consistency, while unlikely, would be nice to see.

Dub13

grahamo wrote:

I think the point is to show a minority of so called Liverpool fans were way out of order!

I agree it was stupid thuggish behavior.

But a couple of points,the thread title is Liverpool Fans I can assure you this kind of behavior is from a small group of fans who were in Athens it is by no means the norm.

We could have a thread like this for loads of clubs as most if not all clubs have scum who support them,but why should we as I said there would be no point.

mike65

Troll-tastic.

Now will someone do us all a favour and close this thread. Its designed to incite a riot.

Mike.

Aquos76

I'm surprised that this thread has not been closed. You know its a golden rule on here, that you cant say anything bad about the mighty liverpool.

Well bollox to that. The way those fans behave the other night was way out of order, especially with them charging the stadium. All I will say they have a very short memory.

If these vids were of Man U fans there would be endless threads on here about it. Fair play to the OP for posting them.

Aquos76

mike65 wrote:

Troll-tastic.

Now will someone do us all a favour and close this thread. Its designed to incite a riot.

Mike.

Why Mike, because it shows your beloved club supporters in such a bad light.

mike65

*sighs*

No, cos its not for anything other than whats already starting to happen, mark my words by 3 am this thread will be full of sh1te.

Mike.

Little-Devil

Aquos76 wrote:

Why Mike, because it shows your beloved club supporters in such a bad light.

I would say so as well. I dont think the fans did themselfs any favours charging the gates at the final and again the English fans get a bad name all over Europe be cause of it. I was shocked to see one liverpool speaking on Skysports talking happily about charging the gate and getting in and then to have the cheek to balme UEFA. I do think uefa have a lot to answer for, but that was no excuse and each club was given a equal amount of tickets for the game. The uefa family was give 20,000 tickets, i wonder how many of those turned up at the final? i would say probably about 2,000 and then rest where touted around by there own "family" as they call it. I heard one fan sold 56 tickets to a travel agent for €58,000 and was arrested by the police for touting.

Aquos76

mike65 wrote:

*sighs*

No, cos its not for anything other than whats already starting to happen, mark my words by 3 am this thread will be full of sh1te.

Mike.

I don't doubt that for one minute.

besty

Why should the thread be closed? It simply depicts the reality of what occured in Athens.

LostinBlanch

Look nobody here is saying that it was all Liverpool fans that were involved. But no other lcub has had it's own fans attacking it's own supporters to steal tickets. No other club's fans has been seen throwing flares etc at other supporters this season. What happened to the best fans in the werld, famous scouse humour, Justice for the 96 (but not the 19) etc? And it wasn't Chelsea this time.

You can be sure that a lot of people that were giving it loads on here after Lille, Roma, Seville etc were Pool fans, thinkig we're better than that. Well after the events of last Wednesday not so. So can we please have an end to the griefmonkey stuff? I know it's a big ask, and doubt it will be acknowledged but hey, someone has to say enough.

besty

LostinBlanch wrote:

You can be sure that a lot of people that were giving it loads on here after Lille, Roma, Seville etc were Pool fans, thinkig we're better than that. Well after the events of last Wednesday not so. So can we please have an end to the griefmonkey stuff? I know it's a big ask, and doubt it will be acknowledged but hey, someone has to say enough.

Well said.

LostinBlanch

besty wrote:

Why should the thread be closed? It simply depicts the reality of what occured in Athens.

Ssssh, you can't say that, the Pool mods will have you banned for asking that.

Now if it was Milan fans throwing flares / petrol bombs at other fans like happened at about 25 seconds into this link
You'd never hear the end of it.

Little-Devil

I do think this post was probably posted to start a big slagging match between fans and was intended for Manu fans more so to start having a pop at liverpool fans. They never waste a opportunity.

I dont think it should be closed, just stick to the topic if you have something construtive to say otherwise your leaving yourself open to be banned.

LostinBlanch

Here's the unofficial Scouse Athens Karaoke karaoke

Enjoy.

PS Pool fans the record is put right about 3mins 45 seconds and 6 mins 02 seconds on.

PPS at least you can enjoy the fact that you got there.

Not trolling but never bought into that "famous scouse sense of humour" stuff either.

quarryman

LostinBlanch wrote:

Look nobody here is saying that it was all Liverpool fans that were involved. But no other lcub has had it's own fans attacking it's own supporters to steal tickets. No other club's fans has been seen throwing flares etc at other supporters this season. What happened to the best fans in the werld, famous scouse humour, Justice for the 96 (but not the 19) etc? And it wasn't Chelsea this time.

You can be sure that a lot of people that were giving it loads on here after Lille, Roma, Seville etc were Pool fans, thinkig we're better than that. Well after the events of last Wednesday not so. So can we please have an end to the griefmonkey stuff? I know it's a big ask, and doubt it will be acknowledged but hey, someone has to say enough.

very well said. But expect the 'pool mods to close this though.

the videos are indication that the Greek police were not necessarily to blame for what went on. Its a valid post.

Fans attacking each other for tickets.
"Best in the world"?
hmmmmm

mike65

read all about it

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=179084.0

Mike.

el rabitos

its always the same posters that whip out the handbags, do utd fans really care what liverpool fans were doing over there, does it affect utd in some way? or any other club for that matter?

was i there? no. do i feel shame because of what happened, no. and anyone that does is an idiot tbh. doesnt make u feel proud to be a fan but i wouldnt be losing any sleep over it.

you cant control the crazys, and when uefa do little to combat them, it becomes even harder.

every thread decends into liverpool and united ffs...

man utd can defeat liverpool in a box
man utd can defeat liverpool with a fox
man utd can defeat liverpool in a house
man utd can defeat liverpool with a mouse
man utd can defeat liverpool on a boat
man utd can defeat liverpool with a goat
man utd can defeat liverpool in the rain
man utd can defeat liverpool on a train
man utd can defeat liverpool here or there
man utd can defeat liverpool anywhere!

...then the liverpool fans say the same back and so on and so on...zzzzzzzzz

time for a soccer board sabbatical for me before i go blind reading the same drivel under a different thread name

Thanx 4 The Fish

Aquos76 wrote:

I'm surprised that this thread has not been closed. You know its a golden rule on here, that you cant say anything bad about the mighty liverpool.

Well bollox to that. The way those fans behave the other night was way out of order, especially with them charging the stadium. All I will say they have a very short memory.

If these vids were of Man U fans there would be endless threads on here about it. Fair play to the OP for posting them.

I seem to remember you very quiet when the Man U fans were causing trouble abroad Aquos, is that because you can only see problems with other clubs but when yours is involved you say it is somebody elses fault. There are videos of fans doing all sorts of off limits crap all over europe and until it was liverpool it was all about somebody else, Uefa/the police/ticket agents/the stadium et al. but now it's the pool and you have not made any slurs about liverpool and their fans in some two weeks (a record for you) you see it as a good time to jump around waving your arms about and calling foul. Pathetic. :rolleyes:

And as for the footage, yes it is disgraceful. The people (they are not fans as far as I am concerned, and there is probably a very good reason they did not get tickets) who perpetrated these acts should be banned from stadiums everywhere (and from procreating for that matter). I doubt it will happen but it would certainly send out a clear message to thugs everywhere.

And as for Celtic fans not causing trouble away, they do not need to there is always enough trouble to be had in Scotland...

fullstop

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I remember when there was trouble at Man U games, Spurs and other british team games it was blamed on the police by many fans on here. Now that the liverpool fans have been involved it is bigger than anything. A bit of consistency, while unlikely, would be nice to see.

How the **** can that be blamed on the police? was it them throwing missiles and charging at milan fans? Typical liverpool scum.

YeatsCounty

LostinBlanch wrote:

Now if it was Milan fans throwing flares / petrol bombs at other fans like happened at about 25 seconds into this link
You'd never hear the end of it.

Ah but they deserved it, remember that Milan are a bunch of cheats who didn't deserve to be in the competition. Plus all Italian fans are rioting scum etc etc........

Seriously though, if Milan fans had done that to any other club's supporters (not neccessarily an English club and not neccessarily Liverpool), then the same comments about the trouble in the Italian game would be trotted out. Seeing as the Italian fans were attacked and seeing as "foreign" police can't be blamed, let's just keep this under the carpet and attack anyone who talks about it. :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

what club you follow doesn't dictate how you live your life. would i have lower aggression levels if i followed fulham instead of liverpool? if any of the guilty fans were followers of a different club, say choosing to follow everton instead would that make their actions different in the same sort of situation? its too simple just to tar millions of people with the same brush due to a very tenuous common denominator. it wasn't all liverpool fans that caused the trouble it was a minority of especially bad eggs, the likes of which exist in every walk of life, not even just football supporters. some clubs are bound to have more then others due to the different social and economic settings of their fans, but im getting very tired of these massive generalizations such as "typical liverpool scum". theres too much weight given to a mass groups actions instead of placing blame on each and every guilty individual. theres no such thing as a "generic [club name here] fan". we're all different and deserve to be treated and punished based on our own personal decisions.

county

fullstop wrote:

How the **** can that be blamed on the police? was it them throwing missiles and charging at milan fans? Typical liverpool scum.

ah come on now,you cant label everyone like that

therecklessone

fullstop wrote:

How the **** can that be blamed on the police? was it them throwing missiles and charging at milan fans? Typical liverpool scum.

And when you take a holiday from the soccer forum, will we hear you bleating about the "typical liverpool mods"? :rolleyes:

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I remember when there was trouble at Man U games, Spurs and other british team games it was blamed on the police by many fans on here. Now that the liverpool fans have been involved it is bigger than anything. A bit of consistency, while
unlikely, would be nice to see.

True but we all know consistancy is in very short supply on this forum. When United and spurs fans had their trouble they were slated here by fans of other clubs. This type of tit for tat crap only causes trouble on the forum but all sides are guilty of it.

examples:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53026836&postcount=292
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53031086&postcount=304

on topic

I didn't even bother looking et the links as its not news to me that most soccer clubs are followed by a minority of mindless hooligans. I have consistanly followed that line in such cases and just because its Liverpool this time i don't see any need to change it. If only that was the norm here we may be able to discuus such issues without it turning into the usual crap. It is a valid topic for this forum and one that should be open to discussion.

ciaran76

I said this in the other thread but a scumbag is a scumbag no matter what team they support.
It just seems that English teams have a higher majority of these type fans then the rest of Europe.

Thrill

Theres plenty of youtube footage showing man u fans rioting at football matches as well. You'll find clips of violence amongst other clubs too.
The problem isn't solely a Liverpool problem but an English one.

Liverpool, man u and other English fans have a bad reputation all over Europe for violence. I don't see how fans of other clubs can sling mud at Liverpool fans without acknowledging that they too have thugs amongst their fans as well.


As a Liverpool fan im disappointed with the behavior of those who caused trouble in Athens but their actions doesn't make me or every Liverpool fan a scumbag.

The Muppet

thrill wrote:

The problem isn't solely a Liverpool problem but an English one.

Liverpool, man u and other English fans have a bad reputation all over Europe for violence. I don't see how fans of other clubs can sling mud at Liverpool fans without acknowledging that they too have thugs amongst their fans as well.


As a Liverpool fan im disappointed with the behavior of those who caused trouble in Athens but their actions doesn't make me or every Liverpool fan a scumbag.

The problem isn't a soley an English one either. There has been football related violence in many countries including our own which is all the more reason for not trying to tarnish any group of supporters . Unfortunately some fans are not balanced enough to resist the temptation to point score when their rivals are involved.

therecklessone

The Muppet wrote:

The problem isn't a soley an English one either. There has been football related violence in many countries including our own which is all the more reason for not trying to tarnish any group of supporters . Unfortunately some fans are not balanced enough to resist the temptation to point score when their rivals are involved.

Very good point.

Greece has one of the worst records in Europe for crowd violence at sporting events (not limited to football)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6510735.stm

Man dies after brawl between women's volleyball fans

Villain

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

And as for Celtic fans not causing trouble away, they do not need to there is always enough trouble to be had in Scotland...

Would they be the same Celtic fans that won an award for their good behaviour from Uefa a year or two ago? :rolleyes:

From what I know of the Liverpool situation in Greece some touts sold fake tickets to fans who were stupid enough not to realise they were fake so they turned up and when they were refused entry they caused trouble and sadly some real fans who had genuine tickets got caught up in it, so basically Liverpools made a mess of it for themselves and tbh the Greece police should have hammered the fans that tried to climb walls etc, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

grahamo

therecklessone wrote:

Very good point.

Greece has one of the worst records in Europe for crowd violence at sporting events (not limited to football)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6510735.stm

Man dies after brawl between women's volleyball fans

Now I see why crowd violence is rife among Greek teams. The cops may as well have not been there on Wednesday for all the good they did. Absolutely useless.

jesus_thats_gre

The Muppet wrote:

I didn't even bother looking et the links as its not news to me that most soccer clubs are followed by a minority of mindless hooligans. I have consistanly followed that line in such cases and just because its Liverpool this time i don't see any need to change it. If only that was the norm here we may be able to discuus such issues without it turning into the usual crap. It is a valid topic for this forum and one that should be open to discussion.

Very fair post.




This sheds some light on the situation. No excuse but it seems to have contributed a large deal:

There were thousands of reds queing up to get through the 1st check-point. They had metal fences with double gates. At this point there were not letting people through, and the queues behind were growing and getting more impatient. After 20 minutes i was near the front, and was getting crushed against the fence, i've never been so scared in my life. Now im about 15st, 6ft tall so i'm fairly confident of looking after myself, but i could not stop getting crushed against the fence. There was a young lady next to me in tears who was getting crushed.

The time now was about 7.30-8pm and more and more people were arriving, the push was getting stronger and stronger. I seen this lady having an epiletic fit on the floor. I seen a small child with a cut head and blood pouring. There was dad in tears trying to protect his two small children.

I've never in my whole life seen such poor organisation.

They then opened the gates and everyone just surged forwared, hundreds without tickets got through.

Then the whole "crush" thing happend at the next check point. I decided just to step aside and check the situation out, as at this time i was contemplating not going into the ground. This policeman then opened a gate next to where i was stood and ordered me through, where i by-passed the next gathering. I then was able to get into the stadium WITHOUT having my ticket checked.

I found my seat where my mates were stood. about an hour before kick-off we were stood on our seats as the row were our legs should have been were taken my fans. I had to share a seat to stand on with my mate because it was so full.

I just cant believe how bad the organisation was at this event. There were no "proper" turnstlyes, just big gates that were opened to allow fans through.

zAbbo

I'll agree with the above as well.

I think Uefa need to stop organising these games in locations which aren't capable of controlling such a crowd.

I've been to the Nou Camp and Madison Square Gardens, and a simple ticket scanner system works so well.

Surely a simple case of effective ticket checkpoints would have sorted this, and a clampdown on dodgy tickets (maybe stop giving 15,000 to the 'Corporate Family' and to real fans instead)

If that game was anywhere in England, there wouldn't have been any trouble.

You can't rationalise some supporters actions when large scale pandemonium breaks out

copacetic

irish1 wrote:

Would they be the same Celtic fans that won an award for their good behaviour from Uefa a year or two ago? :rolleyes:

From what I know of the Liverpool situation in Greece some touts sold fake tickets to fans who were stupid enough not to realise they were fake so they turned up and when they were refused entry they caused trouble and sadly some real fans who had genuine tickets got caught up in it, so basically Liverpools made a mess of it for themselves and tbh the Greece police should have hammered the fans that tried to climb walls etc, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

tried to avoid getting invloved in this thread, have to disagree that people being too 'stupid' to realise they had fake tickets was the issue.

It appears there were many high quality fakes around athens which fooled not only the fans who bought them but also the police and stewards. Presumably if the people with fakes hadn't got in, people with actual tickets wouldn't have been refused.

I'm sickened by the trouble that was seen on the night but can only imagine how it would feel to spend a fortune for a package trip and then be turned away in spite of having a valid ticket.

Villain

Well I was going on the reports I had heard which said the fake tickets had come from liverpool and if put side by side with a real ticket it was obvious they were fakes, apologies if that is incorrect.

I do think the Uefa spokesperson was correct to criticise the Liverpool fans who caused problems although fans may be the wrong word, as he said there was no issue with Milan fans although I also heard reports that Milan handed back some tickets so obviously there was a huge difference in demand. The authorities handled it very badly but people who charge police officers and climb walls to gain access are the guilty ones because they ruined the night for genuine Liverpool fans who had purchased tickets from correct sources.

I didn't mean to cause offence as the Muppet says every club has these type of people following them that call themselves fans.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This sheds some light on the situation. No excuse but it seems to have contributed a large deal:

It certainly paints a very frightening picture.

jesus_thats_gre

I think alot of the trouble caused at the ground can be explained by the organisation of the event.

The touble caused at the big screen TVs etc is down to complete thugs.

zAbbo

Neither club returned tickets, and certainly not Milan sending back 4,000.

This was leaked, and probably helped sell the counterfeits, as their was a perceived amount of spares going round (which were fake)

n a seperate development UEFA warned that rumours that more tickets were available for the final were untrue, after thousands of Liverpool and AC Milan fans arrived in Athens without tickets.

"It has been reported that 4,000 tickets for the UEFA Champions League final in Athens have been returned to the organisers by AC Milan. The reports are completely untrue," European football's governing body said in a statement.

Instead, both clubs had asked for an extra allocation above their quota of 17,000 each, UEFA said.

"Reports that tickets have suddenly become available are therefore unfounded," it underlined.

- http://www.soccerway.com/news/2007/May/23/briton-caught-selling-fake-tickets-for-euro-final

copacetic

irish1 wrote:

Well I was going on the reports I had heard which said the fake tickets had come from liverpool and if put side by side with a real ticket it was obvious they were fakes, apologies if that is incorrect.

well i'm sure there were plenty of poor quality fakes too, but many reports of high quality ones that the various officials couldn't spot are going around..

Dub13

I never asked for this thread to be closed my problem is the thread title would seem to suggest this kind of behavior is the norm for Liverpool fans and clearly its not.