What's Happened to Sinn Fein!!!

LuckyLloyd

FTA69 wrote:

Yobs don't vote at all. In fact most people who vote for SF are normal people from working class areas, although judging by your uninformed, bigoted nonsense above I'd imagine you tar everyone from such backgrounds as the same.

Well said sir. Some of the rubbish spouted on this thread (and this board in general) has been cringe inducing.

Mrs_Doyle

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Well said sir. Some of the rubbish spouted on this thread (and this board in general) has been cringe inducing.

Agreed 100%

A lot of what has been posted here is incredibly offensive, not only to the party itself, but also to the people who vote for them.

I think, perhaps, a little less generalising may be in order.

chopperbyrne

Most Celtic supporting idiots don't vote at all. My brother who is a big Celtic fan would go on about the IRA and sing rebel songs and say Sinn Féin are who should be in power, but then he doesn't bother voting.

He is in no way a scumbag. Never starts random fights, abuses Garda or any other anti-social nonsense. He just doesn't vote. If he did he'd probably vote SF. They lose thousands of votes because people like my brother don't vote.

I gave Crowe my first vote because I appreciate the hard work he does in the constituency, but I think he was overshadowed by all the talk of FG/Lab in the media and many voters who would have given him their first vote (and did in 2002) voted for either FG or Labour first with Crowe getting their third or fourth choice.

Mary Lou is a bit of a joke who doesn't seem to have her own opinion on anything, but Sinn Féin do have some fine TDs and will only gain in public confidence if they handle themselves well while in power up north.

They need to change their strategy for elections and how they promote themselves in the Republic, but they're certainly not going to lose any more ground and have performed quite well to have only lost one seat this time.

redspider

Voipjunkie wrote:

In Donegal SW they tripled their vote
In Donegal NE they doubled it
In Dublin NE they went from 3000 to 4660
In Dublin NW they polled nearly exactly the same as 5 years ago
Mayo from 2000 up to 3600
They polled well in Sligo North Leitrim and Leitrim Roscommon where if you combine them as they did not exist 5 years ago their vote was well up
In the 2 new meath constituencies if you compare the combined vote to 2002 they were up as well.

They made an absolute bags of Dublin central dropping MLM in.
It is wishful thinking on behalf of some that want to believe that SF is over but the evidence does not support it.

This is the correct analysis of SF's position. A more detailed analysis with the vote change shown in each constituency would give the most accurate figure. Many people, myself included at times, form an opinion based on anecdotal or partial information. Taking a look at the hard figures in each constitiency is the only way to make a fully informed opinion.

> They made an absolute bags of Dublin central dropping MLM in.

I also couldnt figure out the selection of Mary Lou McD for Bertie's constituency, nor the Green's decision of putting in McKenna in there as well (or did she decide that herself as director of elections?). Surely there was more 'lower hanging fruit' than that ?!?!

True, a backlash against Bertie may have been expected and FF didnt have a strong 2nd candidate there, but at the same time, it was the 'wolf's Lair'. Maybe neither of the GP nor the SF candidates wanted to get elected in all honesty ..... and were just going through the motions to make a 'dent' on Bertie.

Redspider

Blackjack

Ibid wrote:

The lads in this clip throwing petrol bombs at the guards, wearing Celtic jerseys, draped in tricolours and wearing James Connolly scarves, butchering the Fields of Athenry with the "Sinn Féin" and "IRA" additions....

...vote PD?

Come of it lads. Ye know well the disaffected Celtic jersey wearing yobs vote for SF in far greater percentages than the average guy on the street.

That's a fairly narrow minded point of view and unlike you from what I have read of your posts normally. I know a number of people who would vote Sinn Fein but would never wear a Celtic Jersey in a million years.

For the record I have never voted Sinn Fein and it's quite likely I never will, given their policies.

yomchi

Ibid wrote:

What about relative freefall though? It's not so long ago I was arguing with a Shinner who said "we're on our way to over-taking Labour, if we can over-take Fine Gael..." They need to continue their momentum to get anywhere in the near future or else they won't be such an up-and-coming and cool party for scum to vote for (I'm not saying all SF voters are scum, I'm saying a lot of scum vote SF - and you know it's true).

Ibid, I felt I had to report that post. Your generalisation of SF voters is galling to say the least. But I would be interested in what you define as 'scum'? Working class voters? Single mothers? People receiving welfare?

I'm very interested to find out.

yomchi

Ibid wrote:

The lads in this clip throwing petrol bombs at the guards, wearing Celtic jerseys, draped in tricolours and wearing James Connolly scarves, butchering the Fields of Athenry with the "Sinn Féin" and "IRA" additions....

...vote PD?

Come of it lads. Ye know well the disaffected Celtic jersey wearing yobs vote for SF in far greater percentages than the average guy on the street.

This protest was organised by RSF not Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein members were instructed to stay away from this protest. Hence NO Sinn Fein members were arrested.
Thise disaffected celtic jersey wearing yobs DONT VOTE, are apolitical, and neanderthal at best.

Smarmore

Jon wrote:

Ibid, I felt I had to report that post. Your generalisation of SF voters is galling to say the least. But I would be interested in what you define as 'scum'? Working class voters? Single mothers? People receiving welfare?

I'm very interested to find out.

Forget about the supporters Jon, what about the politicians themselves:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tds-pictured-with-provos-in-prison-494788.html

These are the kind of people you're defending and representing. Sorry if you don't like a few home truths but you should be ashamed of yourself. Any good work they do will always be tainted by this kind of stuff.

yomchi

Smarmore wrote:

Forget about the supporters Jon, what about the politicians themselves:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tds-pictured-with-provos-in-prison-494788.html

These are the kind of people you're defending and representing. Sorry if you don't like a few home truths but you should be ashamed of yourself. Any good work they do will always be tainted by this kind of stuff.

What about Bertie who was ready to release them as part of a deal in the North 2 years ago. McDowell was also involved.
But that won't get any mention.
PS I represent no one but myself.

Mrs_Doyle

Smarmore wrote:

Forget about the supporters Jon, what about the politicians themselves:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tds-pictured-with-provos-in-prison-494788.html

These are the kind of people you're defending and representing. Sorry if you don't like a few home truths but you should be ashamed of yourself. Any good work they do will always be tainted by this kind of stuff.

Charlie Haughey - Fianna Fail

Bertie Ahern - Fianna Fail

They are all tainted.

We wont give Sinn Fein a chance, because of their dodgy past, tainted by criminal dealings.

Yet we all vote for Fianna Fail in our droves, DESPITE, their dodgy, criminal past.

I suppose that makes sense alright.

Smarmore

Jon wrote:

What about Bertie who was ready to release them as part of a deal in the North 2 years ago. McDowell was also involved.
But that won't get any mention.
PS I represent no one but myself.

McDowell despises Sinn Fein!! Bertie had a tough call to make but he was under serious pressure to release them. It was all caused by Sinn Fein's insistence on it though. That's typical Sinn Fein trying to point the finger back at other people. What other civilised country would vote for a party who inisist on the release of four cop-killers as part of a deal? SF put these 4 scumbags, I suppose you're going to report me for calling them scumbags as well, release as a priority over everyone they represent(The Irish people). They used the peace process as a bargaining tool for 4 cop-killers!!

Smarmore

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Charlie Haughey - Fianna Fail

Bertie Ahern - Fianna Fail

They are all tainted.

We wont give Sinn Fein a chance, because of their dodgy past, tainted by criminal dealings.

Yet we all vote for Fianna Fail in our droves, DESPITE, their dodgy, criminal past.

I suppose that makes sense alright.

First of all Charlie Haughey doesn't represent FF anymore so it's not very fair to continue to associate the party with him!!

As for Bertie are you really going to put his "criminal past" on the same level as Sinn Feins?? Again pointing the finger back at other people

Mrs_Doyle

Smarmore wrote:

First of all Charlie Haughey doesn't represent FF anymore so it's not very fair to continue to associate the party with him!!

As for Bertie are you really going to put his "criminal past" on the same level as Sinn Feins?? Again pointing the finger back at other people

Some of the people in this thread have continued to use 'Celtic Jersey Wearing Larger Louts' as prime examples of Sinn Fein supporters, and yet you question if its OK to associate Charlie Haughey with Fiann Fail?

Are you for real? We should forget that Charlie ever had anything to do with Fianna fail, but should always remember were Sinn Fein came from?

You don't get to pick and chose what should be remembered.

yomchi

Bertie had a tough call to make but he was under serious pressure to release them. It was all caused by Sinn Fein's insistence on it though. That's typical Sinn Fein trying to point the finger back at other people.

Its called negotiations.

SF put these 4 scumbags, I suppose you're going to report me for calling them scumbags as well, release as a priority over everyone they represent

No im not reporting you as your not making much sense. Infact it quite clear you haven't a bogs what you're on about apart from some emotional dibber dabber

FTA69

They used the peace process as a bargaining tool for 4 cop-killers!!

Why is being a "cop killer" worse than being an "average Joe killer"? At the end of the day the GFA stipulated the release of all IRA prisoners. If you voted for the GFA then you voted for their release, simple as. That Sinn Féin (and the GFA) identifies these 3 men as being eligible for early release does not equate with the party or its voters being "yobs" as Ibid so eloquently put it.

Smarmore

I never claimed their supporters are all yobs. I'm from Louth and a lot of my friends voted for them.

Emotional dibber dabber is an interesting way to put it Jon. There are a lot of people in this country who have been affected by SF and it would interesting to see you meet some of them and accuse them of "emotional dibber dabber". I just think it's dissapointing.

LordSutch

Just in case anybody has forgotten just how nice & cuddely Sinn fein really are; Sinn Fein makes no apologies for the Provisional IRA and their actions over the last 35 years ~ Sinn Fein even glorifies the noble & worthy actions of the IRA ~ Sinn Fein commerates the IRA dead as Heroes ~ Sinn Fein actually has former IRA terrorists within its ranks (& is proud of this fact) ~ Sinn Fein is proud of the IRAs record & all its brave atrocities ~ Sinn Fein & the IRA are inextricably linked ~ Sinn Fein claims that all those bombed, shot, stabbed, blown-up, knee capped, & strangled, were done so in the name of the IRA/ Sinn Fein & Ireland .....................

They didnt get my vote.

Victor Meldrew

FTA69 wrote:

Why is being a "cop killer" worse than being an "average Joe killer"? At the end of the day the GFA stipulated the release of all IRA prisoners. If you voted for the GFA then you voted for their release, simple as. That Sinn Féin (and the GFA) identifies these 3 men as being eligible for early release does not equate with the party or its voters being "yobs" as Ibid so eloquently put it.

Before the GFA vote we were explicitly told by the government that the killers of Jerry McCabe were NOT included under the GFA. also, after that murder the IRA said that it was not an endorsed operation. subsequently, when there were convictions and the dust settled, they were "legitimised" by the IRA and taken up as a cause celeb by SF.

Remember, anyone released under the GFA is released under licence of the relevent soverign government, not at the instruction of retired terrorists and their political representatives.

yomchi

ArthurF wrote:

Just in case anybody has forgotten just how nice & cuddely Sinn fein really are; Sinn Fein makes no apologies for the Provisional IRA and their actions over the last 35 years ~ Sinn Fein even glorifies the noble & worthy actions of the IRA ~ Sinn Fein commerates the IRA dead as Heroes ~ Sinn Fein actually has former IRA terrorists within its ranks (& is proud of this fact) ~ Sinn Fein is proud of the IRAs record & all its brave atrocities ~ Sinn Fein & the IRA are inextricably linked ~ Sinn Fein claims that all those bombed, shot, stabbed, blown-up, knee capped, & strangled, were done so in the name of the IRA/ Sinn Fein & Ireland .....................

They didnt get my vote.

LMAO

Pretty good contribution there. Of course Sinn Fein celebrates past IRA initiatives, putting weapons beyond use, stating that the war is over, apologising to all non-combatans killed or injured by them, maintaining their ceasefire, assisting in the search for the missing, which they acknowledged was wrong.
Alot there to be happy about imo

LordSutch

I was just reminding the young ones (post#138) who might not be aware of Sinn Fein's colourful & blood stained 'recent' history ..............

yomchi

onwards with the crusade Arthur!

Villain

TBH I think this topic has its day, people who bash SF here on a regular basis think SF are finished and are claiming some kind of moral victory, those people who watched the election results closely can see that while Sinn Fein lost a seat their vote increased and given the result of the election where the main parties did well, they can see Sinn Fein are still in a good position with increasing votes and young candidates.

Oh and then you have the posts that call people who vote for Sinn Fein scum! TBH those posts don't merit any more replies.

LordSutch

I happen to think its very important for young people to be reminded of who Sinn Fein & the IRA really are & what they stand for ~ call it a crusade if you like (& it probably is) but its a worthy one as I discovered recently, when I heard a friend of my 18 year old son 'Bigging-up' Sinn Fein & Adams whilst being blissfully unaware of what they stand for (or stood for) so when I got talking to the boys & explained about the bombs, murders, knee cappings, etc, etc in the name of Ireland they got a shock ~ they honestly hadnt thought it through, bless em ................

Now they know.

Victor Meldrew

Jon wrote:

Of course Sinn Fein celebrates past IRA initiatives,

Problem is, that every time they do that, they play to the northern audience (and some southern "republicans"), I think "the north" is a real turn off to the mainstream down here. ("Everyone" says they "want" a united Ireland, but it's not a priority ).

I think Ivan Yates was right about breakfast role man, his his mortgage and his job in the construction industry voting "FF".

With respect to the OP and "what happened to SF", I don't think a lot happened to them, but they do need to become relevant to affluent working class voters if they want to push beyond 4-5 seats.

I despise the IRA, but I don't even get to that in my decision not to vote SF, their policies are enough on their own.

axer

ArthurF wrote:

I was just reminding the young ones (post#138) who might not be aware of Sinn Fein's colourful & blood stained 'recent' history ..............

Good thing all of us can forget the past and move on! :rolleyes: Maybe is attitudes like this that caused the problems in the North to continue for so long.

There is something hypocrytical in people saying that what happened to catholics up north happened in the past and people should move on as it would not happen again and yet people criticise Sinn Fein for what happened in the past even though they *are* trying to move forward.

Smarmore

ArthurF wrote:

I happen to think its very important for young people to be reminded of who Sinn Fein & the IRA really are & what they stand for ~ call it a crusade if you like (& it probably is) but its a worthy one as I discovered recently, when I heard a friend of my 18 year old son 'Bigging-up' Sinn Fein & Adams whilst being blissfully unaware of what they stand for (or stood for) so when I got talking to the boys & explained about the bombs, murders, knee cappings, etc, etc in the name of Ireland they got a shock ~ they honestly hadnt thought it through, bless em ................

Now they know.

This article says a lot about the knowledge young people have of Sinn Féins history:

http://www.ucd.ie/observer/v11i07/n-ira.html

It's easy to overlook a history you know nothing about.

Anyway Sinn Féin are far from finished unfortunately. They've consolidated their positions in certain areas and will probably learn from making mistakes like Mary Lou McDonald. However most people will grow out of the SF stage as they get older and gravitate towards FF. So they will only ever have a limited appeal in certain areas and will never make any real progress. They need to broaden their outlook from a United Ireland to what FF are looking for, an all-island economy. Sounds to me like FF have actually thought about the consequences of a united Ireland and how it could be managed whereas SF wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. So that just makes them completely irrelevant.

Victor Meldrew

axer wrote:

There is something hypocrytical in people saying that what happened to catholics up north happened in the past and people should move on as it would not happen again and yet people criticise Sinn Fein for what happened in the past even though they *are* trying to move forward.

I've always had a straight answer to this, when they act like democrats, treat them like democrats, when they condone viloence and are obtuse about policing and their funding, draw your own conclusions. SF are "in democracy rehab / kindergarten"

axer

Victor Meldrew wrote:

when they act like democrats, treat them like democrats

how are they acting undemocratically at the moment?

Victor Meldrew wrote:

when they condone viloence

Whens the last time they have condoned violence. They have moved on from that. They are trying to move on from the past.

Victor Meldrew wrote:

and are obtuse about policing

IIRC they have stated their support for the policing up north.

Victor Meldrew wrote:

and their funding

There are very few parties on this island that are not suspiciously funded. I don't see how that makes them any worse than either FF or FG in that regard.

Mrs_Doyle

axer wrote:

how are they acting undemocratically at the moment?

Whens the last time they have condoned violence. They have moved on from that. They are trying to move on from the past.

IIRC they have stated their support for the policing up north.

There are very few parties on this island that are not suspiciously funded.

Quoted for truth!

yomchi

I think you'll find you are waisting your time replying to such nonsense, there are a few posters here who will post anything they deem to be factual withouth having the required knowledge to sustain the debate.
Most of these threads end up with the piss takers.. well, taking the piss!