Sorry Day for Ireland

is_that_so

ronoc wrote:

Here are some facts to chew on.

Prices have already fallen across the board.

The economist, the world bank and some leading Irish economists put our house prices at up to 60% overvalued.

Up to 30% of houses are unoccupied.

We are building 80,000 houses a year.

What is clear is that there is no shortage of houses. High prices have been fuelled by cheap available credit and sentiment /speculation.

The rush to get on the ladder and the mistaken belief that house prices never fall has created a situation where people have over stretched themselves to buy these houses which in effect places more upward pressure on prices. The belief that prices never fall is important because in effect it gives the buyer a way out as long as prices keep rising. When this doesn't occur you will start to see nervous homeowners and investors like we have had over the past few months.

The moral of the story is the value of your house is what you manage to sell it for not what it is valued at.
If house prices were inflated when you bought there is defiantly the possibility they could fall.

I expect the market to pick up here temporarily when incoming government introduces its stamp duty measures. I expect the next interest rate rises coming shortly to be the end of that and we will see either a sharp hard correction or a long drawn out depression of the market. But make no mistake it is coming.

Its not unique to Ireland its happened all around the world and the signs are always the same. I feel sorry for the people who have had to take out bumper mortgages but with banks selling and leasing back their property, estate agents firing staff and housing inventories rising I'm afraid the writing is on the wall.
Its squeaky bottom time.

Not sure why we need a rehash of that housing thread again here. I would suggest you might be drifting off-topic.
There are many, many reasons people voted as they did, some local and some based on their pockets. Some voted on ideological grounds and some went with the "issues". For example Trevor Sargent topped the poll last time in Dublin North, didn't this time but might the next. Voting intentions in a general election are never that simple and never have been.

wow sierra

posted by Liam Byrne

1 The U.S. using Shannon - out of touch
2 Health services - out of touch
3 Broadband - out of touch
4 New roads, rail, tram, metro and terminal services in Dubln but screw the rest of us - out of touch
5 House prices & general, crazy inflation rates - out of touch
6 Rural post offices & essential services - COMPLETELY out of touch
7 Considering releasing Gerry McCabe's murderers - out of touch until McDowell reigned him in[/QUOTE

I will reply as follows

1 A side issue that very few people give much thought to. I am vehemently opposed to the US intervention in Iraq. I marched with the 100,000 in Dublin against it. I think it is being managed disgracefully. Would it stop me voting FF? NO You wont even get the local greens to oppose the flights because of the jobs in Shannon.
2 Health service is a complex issue - there are many restricive practices and inefficiencies most of which the outgoing government were trying hard to improve. The experience of most people of the care they get is positive - it is the negative experiences that make the headlines. The smoking ban was a brilliant piece of health legislation
3 Broadband availabilty is a huge problem and while progress is slow it is improving. Its not an issue for the majority of people though.
4 I agree that there is a lack of development, jobs and services on the west coast - the opposition parties, both of whose leaders are from Mayo made no issue of this in the election. They vehemently opposed decentralisation and talked constantly about the "M50" as far as I remember. Trying ot win back the Dublin vote. There have been huge improvements to the road network. Limerick bypass, M4/M6, M1 M11 etc etc etc. Even the famous M50 is in the process of being widened.
5 Due to availability of loans and low(ish) interest rates actual mortgage payments as percentage of take home pay are not that different to what they ever were. the PSEU did a study which proves this. Essnetial items like food, clothes etc are simply not that expensive if you shop around. Price increases for gas, oil, electricity etc have encouraged me and a lot of other people to conserve energy which is the way to go for a green future.
6 My 80 year old father who cant drive and lives alone in the country couldnt care less about the local post office - most pensioners drive in rural ireland and those who dont are no more likely to be able to walk the 3 miles to the local post office as they are to the town 10 miles away. Incidently he has recently been treated in a private hospital on his medical card through the Treatment Purchase scheme and all his experiecne of the health service has been positive. He also votes FF.
7 Without wishing to offend you if you are part of the family - Gerry McCabe isnt an issue either. Lots of people who committed worse atrocities in the North were released early - that was the issue. Also the issue of whether it happened before or after the ceasefire etc etc. It was a complicated issue which needed careful consideration in the interest of the peace process - not a simple knee jerk media reaction. One of his killers is already released by the way - he has served his sentence. Given that Sinn Fein are already in power in the north and on the Policing Board I dont think they will be bringing it up again.

Like I said Fianna Fail are in touch with what the country cares about - you I'm not so sure.

Boston

wow sierra wrote:

1 The U.S. using Shannon - out of touch

1 A side issue that very few people give much thought to. I am vehemently opposed to the US intervention in Iraq. I marched with the 100,000 in Dublin against it. I think it is being managed disgracefully. Would it stop me voting FF? NO You wont even get the local greens to oppose the flights because of the jobs in Shannon.

I've taken this point on its own, How is that out of touch? Most don't care, locals politicians value the jobs at Shannon over the morality of it all. Seems pretty in-line with public opinion. I think most people realise our place in the world and that refusing the Americans the use of Shannon would have cost us severely.

wow sierra

Boston wrote:

I've taken this point on its own, How is that out of touch? Most don't care, locals politicians value the jobs at Shannon over the morality of it all. Seems pretty in-line with public opinion. I think most people realise our place in the world and that refusing the Americans the use of Shannon would have cost us severely.

I hope you realise I was replying to a post by Liam Byrne who said Fianna Fáil were out of touch because they didnt care about this issue(and the rest of the list) - and I was disagreeing with him.

woop

uote:
Originally Posted by woop
yeh in all fairness FF may not be the best politicians in the world but theyre the best weve got, you cant honestly think that enda kenny would make a good taoiseach, no experience, no expertise, no clue! FG dont exactly have a good record, and you have to look back over the years and see that for the majotirty of our elections it has been the Irish peopes choice to put FF in power because they believe FF are the only party capable of running a stable government, and I dont think the majotiy of Irish peoples views over the years could all be wrong, could they?

Originally Posted by ronoc

Oh dear. I'm not going to list of the sucesses of previous FG governments because, to be honest I'm probably wasting my breath.

Enda Kenny is older than bertie

hmm so that makes a difference, does it? sounds kinda childish, Im older than you therefore I am better,bit like most of the FG election tactics, the FG FF two was very childish hardly what youd expect from a future taoiseach! I thik that enda might be a TD longer but does local representation make Kenny suitable for national office? what was his post in that shambles of a FG government?

wow sierra

Musha wrote:

Why is it every election we hear the students compmaining about not being able to vote because they are in College on polling day, Have you not got the brains or energy to get your postal vote orgainise before the cut off? Be proactive guys and pull your fingers out and stop compaining. God help the days when most teens and 20's could not vote because they where working on a building site or Bars in London and that was only 15/20 years ago.

Excellent post.

Marcus.Aurelius

Hilarious posts from wow sierra, your faith in the Weasel in Chief is bordering on hysteria. Doesn't anyone remember that EdeV started the original traitor party called Fianna Fáil and started the civil war and made sure that Michael Collins, a good man in politics (and they're fairly rare!!) was murdered by Fianna Fáil minions.

Anyway on the subject of the economy, I've already posted about the OECD's latest report which attacks FF for its god-awful management of the economic boom. Houses are overpriced and are not selling, 30% remain vacant.

Silly inflation rates and mismanagement of 3rd level courses has led to high costs for MNCs and they can see that the shortage of graduates in ICT & Science will necessitate their withdrawal from the Irish market.

If you're too afraid to read the reports, then carry on idolising Bertie and co. If, like me, you can see the downturn already starting, you already know its about to get a whole lot worse.

And wow sierra, FF didn't create the economy, the EU did. But FF certainly destroyed it by overspending, brown envelopes to developers!!!! All the money we had, wow sierra, frittered away on backhanders instead of 100% of it going to infrastructure. If the downfall comes as soon as predicted by OECD, we don't stand a chance, if FF's record is anything to go by. Do you remember when FG was in power, and saved and scrimped to spend some money on services? FF got in and blew it in 6 months. How can you validate your confidence in these morons??

Wake up.

is_that_so

woop wrote:

I think that enda might be a TD longer but does local representation make Kenny suitable for national office? what was his post in that shambles of a FG government?

Well Dick Roche, Martin Cullen and Noel Dempey do have experience but I wouldn't give any of them a job. In the end it was a choice and one choice came out ahead. Just because the other choice was not yours does not makes it wrong or wrong-headed.
It was a very close election evidenced by the speculation as to what "dolly mixture" - Dermot Ahern's term, will be in the next administration.

Jonny Arson

mloc wrote:

All this talk of recession is quite amusing. It's being highly exagerrated. Sure, the property market's rate of expansion is unsustainable; however, the idea that the bottom will fall out of the market and house prices plummet is scaremongering; at worst, prices will stabilise with perhaps some peripheral areas suffering from minor price falls.

Get real, there's no huge depression on its way.

For starters, read this article from today's Sunday Business Post:

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=THE+INSIDER-qqqs=themarket-qqqs=computersinbusiness-qqqid=23872-qqqx=1.asp

if I could recover the endless amount articles about our shocking economic dependency on the housing market it would scare the crap out of just about anyone.

Economically, things will wont be good for Ireland over the next 5 years. The question is just how bad will it be as a result of our ''Bertie Bubble'' and how will the Galway Tent party manage the mess they could have intervened in over the past couple of years?

wow sierra

Maoleary

My support for FF is far from unquestioning and I have to admit not near as passionate as some of my posting on this forum might suggest. I just find some of the hysteria on the other side goads me to reply. Prior to the election I felt a bit of balance was required.

That said I stand over the post you alluded to and the points made in it are more valid than a lot of the ranting on this forum - if it you found it amusing I'm glad I brightened your day.

Your take on the civil war amused me too

GTC

wow sierra, the civil war was a needless exercise and shameful waste of life propagated by EdeV, as stated by maoleary. I cannot fathom how you are ignoring completely the points raised by so many on this forum, clearly expressing their views and bringing with them clear, documented evidence that the Fianna Fáil party is responsible for the downfall, not the creation or sustenance, of this economic boom.

Your posts are the only rants I've read thus far, and show an almost anatomical picture of the typical FF voter, willing to make pathetic excuses for their party's shameful inadequacy, but also willing to trumpet any tiny amount of success. You and people like you will share in the bad fruits of this government, both in the past 10 years and in the 5 to come.

If you choose to ignore it, then you'll deserve what FF will bring to us all in the next 5 years.

lucernarian

Some evidence that is. There hasn't even been a downfall yet, so how is there evidence for it? It's early days yet and the economy is losing momentum but it's certainly not reversing. There is a lot of room for improvement in this country. Economic stagnation is not on the cards just yet.

GTC

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Some evidence that is. There hasn't even been a downfall yet, so how is there evidence for it? It's early days yet and the economy is losing momentum but it's certainly not reversing. There is a lot of room for improvement in this country. Economic stagnation is not on the cards just yet.

Sigh, the OECD has already said the economy is stagnating. Look at housing at only 68% occupancy. Look at our inflation rates, we're nearly at the line where we are not competitive anymore! Our eastern european neighbours are all waiting in the wings, and the Muppet Supreme, Ahern, can't see it, and won't see it til its too late.

wow sierra

GTC

About a million people voted Fianna Fáil.

They are Business people, doctors, nurses, cleaners, lorry drivers, students, office workers, farmers, solicitors, financial advisors, accountants, social workers, factory workers, toll booth attendants, road sweepers, engineers, sales assistants, IT specialists, TV presenters, builders, journalists, shop owners, hairdressers, pilots, teachers, actors, unemployed, disabled, commuters, old young etc etc etc etc.

They have various educational backgrounds and intelligence levels, political awareness levels etc etc etc.

Stop attempting to second guess them - but more importantly stop insulting them, and their democratic choices.

wow sierra

wow sierra wrote:

GTC

About a million people voted Fianna Fáil.

They are Business people, doctors, nurses, cleaners, lorry drivers, students, office workers, farmers, solicitors, financial advisors, accountants, social workers, factory workers, toll booth attendants, road sweepers, engineers, sales assistants, IT specialists, TV presenters, builders, journalists, shop owners, hairdressers, pilots, teachers, actors, unemployed, disabled, commuters, old young etc etc etc etc.

They have various educational backgrounds and intelligence levels, political awareness levels etc etc etc.

Stop attempting to second guess them - but more importantly stop insulting them, and their democratic choices.

hahaha oh dear that gave me a chuckle.

Seriously what are you trying to say?

dodgyme

jmayo wrote:

None of the above have lived through a recession/depression like Ireland had in the 80s and very few of the above see the stormclouds on the horizon.
.

Boston being the perfect example here Mayo. When you scratch the surface of these lads you will find they have never had to really stand on there own two feet. You will find that they never had major money problems, went on foreign holidays after there exams, probably got grinds, for there first house will get a minimum of a coupla grand to tie them by, were on the daddys insurance at 17 coz the parents didnt have to worry about the extra 100 on the insurance and could choose which college and course to do without having to think of the minor financial details. They probably had access to getting a good jobs because of the economy and the parents knowing people etc etc. The ranks of these people swelled during the celtic tiger. there attitudes are very insulated.

DJDC

I know it hard for people to accept the fact that FF gained the support of 41% of the Irish people but its happened, time to get over it.The rainbow were always going to be up against it with 41% thinking (falsely) that the Celtic Tiger is a FF creation and they are the only party that can sustain.

Labour/FG didnt do enough to persuade people about the hard economic facts that have been mentioned many times in this thread.They focused in on quality of life issues,healthcare etc. and thus misjudged the way our nation has become post Celtic Tiger.

Also there is very little point in attacking the FF party over corruption,parochial politics,nepotism,rezoning etc.FF voters dont see these as issues and its of no concern to them if their local FF politician is corrupt.They vote for him because of "His father was a good man,DeV did great things for this country etc etc".Thats their perception and no amount of giving out about the health service will change that.

The key for the opposition in the next election is to attack FF over economic mismanagement.The likelihood is that the economy will be in the shi.t so their job will be easier.They should be able to chip away at about 40% of the FF support because lets fact it 60% of FF voters are going to vote FF no matter what.But thats enough to get them out of power.

Lennoxschips

Perhaps the "alliance" missed a trick there. In the debate Enda agreed that the economy is great, etc and said that FG deserved credit for it as well.

If there's one thing that Karl Rove has taught the world then that is to attack your opponent on their strongest point. The shameful lies about John Kerry's impeccable war record, for example.

They could have done more to bring up FF's mismanagement of the Irish economy as well as focusing on public services.

DJDC

DJDC wrote:

FF voters dont see these as issues and its of no concern to them if their local FF politician is corrupt.They vote for him because of "His father was a good man,DeV did great things for this country etc etc".Thats their perception and no amount of giving out about the health service will change that.

Complete and utter nonsense. But typical of the anti-FF line. If snobbery based on myths consoles those who hate FF, fair enough.

The simple fact, borne out by opinion polls, is that FF won over the support of many people in the weeks leading up to the election, much more than all their opponents bar FG. Do you really believe that they won over voters with stories about fathers and DeV?

Boston

dodgyme wrote:

Boston being the perfect example here Mayo. When you scratch the surface of these lads you will find they have never had to really stand on there own two feet. You will find that they never had major money problems, went on foreign holidays after there exams, probably got grinds, for there first house will get a minimum of a coupla grand to tie them by, were on the daddys insurance at 17 coz the parents didnt have to worry about the extra 100 on the insurance and could choose which college and course to do without having to think of the minor financial details. They probably had access to getting a good jobs because of the economy and the parents knowing people etc etc. The ranks of these people swelled during the celtic tiger. there attitudes are very insulated.

Ha, you've no idea how wrong you are pal. I love the way you come up with this complete BS profile of me, and others.

1) I've held down a summer Job working with my father since the age of 13. The idea being that I would learn a trade and to keep away from undesirable elements growing up.
2) Holidays, the last holiday I was on what 2 years ago to spain which I paid for myself out of the money I'd saved during the summer to keep myself in college. The only holiday I've ever had, foreign or other wise, prior to that was 6 years ago and a trip to the states which was payed for in weekly instalments over the course of 6 months.
3) Money comes so easily to me, and my ilk that I get by on the some total of 37 euros a week. Whens the last time you went to the pub? You probably spend on a Saturday night what I spend in two weeks.
4) Daddies insurance: I've never got anything off my father I didn't have to put in a solid days work on some hole of a building site for. Can you say the same? I have VHI Health care because of sever health problems as a child which basically required my working class family to spend what little money they had on the VHI to ensure that rather then spending 4 years on a waiting list I'd be seen right away and have a chance at a normal life.
5)I had the pick of what ever college I wanted for the simple reason that I'm a smart fuker and graduated top of my class from my public CBS school with **** funding but some great teachers. I was however limited to dublin as I would have need to work part time to pay my own rent had i moved out.
6) I do owe the Job I'll be starting to the economy, but not to my parents "connection". Their normal people without any pull.
7) Finally, your attitude and JMayo's attitude are not only insulter but also insulting. You talk to me like I don't know what the real world is about, I've stepped over corpses on the way home from college, and I walk past Junkies and Drunks every day on the way to college. I grew up in north inner city Dublin when people had nothing. My eyes are open.

DJDC

Do you really believe that they won over voters with stories about fathers and DeV?

So you honestly think FF win all their support purely based on the brilliance of their economic policies.Give me a break!

FF have been in existence for the last 70 or so whatever years.In that time they have built up a monstrous grass-roots support that are completely dedicated to FF.Such devotion to a single party is mirrored in rural areas right throughout Europe.

FF is a populist movement more than a politicial party and a significant cohort of its followers are all part of "the FF(mafia) family".These people will never vote for another party.Maybe you are one of them.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

CiDeRmAn

Unfortunately in an awfully large section of the population, old allegiances die hard, I had a conversation with a friends mother from Sligo and all she could espouse was a devotion to FF, she voted for them as did her father and so on and so on, not really the way you want people to form their vote but then, if we started excluding people from having a say in the running of the country because they didn't think the way we say they should, we'd be living in Berlin, circa '39.
There is nothing extraordinary in how the election went, by running a good campaign FG squeezed out the smaller parties while folk seemed to rally to support a taoiseach under media seige, Bertie, what ever we think of him, is a media genius, Blair and Bush are only trotting after him, and there is a sense of warmth and openess about him that only serves to endear him further, as we saw when a man with no warmth or openess, Mr. McDowell, got the pointy end of the stick in the smal of his back, as the PDs en mass got slung out.
It would be an insult and betrayal of the voters of the country if they wormed their way into power and into positions of influence on the basis of a mere 2 seats.

Giblet

dodgyme wrote:

Boston being the perfect example here Mayo. When you scratch the surface of these lads you will find they have never had to really stand on there own two feet. You will find that they never had major money problems, went on foreign holidays after there exams, probably got grinds, for there first house will get a minimum of a coupla grand to tie them by, were on the daddys insurance at 17 coz the parents didnt have to worry about the extra 100 on the insurance and could choose which college and course to do without having to think of the minor financial details. They probably had access to getting a good jobs because of the economy and the parents knowing people etc etc. The ranks of these people swelled during the celtic tiger. there attitudes are very insulated.

You're delusional, I bet each and everyone of those points infuriate you about other people. Nothing better to attribute to the people who vote for the party you hate.

The White Rose

So you honestly think FF win all their support purely based on the brilliance of their economic policies.Give me a break!

Er, about 90% of it.

Those people who would argue that Bertie Ahern had nothing to do with the boom would be like saying that Alex Ferguson had nothing to do with 9 Premiership titles- 'You see, i know he's the manager but it's the players and the fans that won it for them. They could have had Adie Boothroyd in charge and still won the titles'

irish_bob

DJDC I know it hard for people to accept the fact that FF gained the support of 41% of the Irish people but its happened, time to get over it.The rainbow were always going to be up against it with 41% thinking (falsely) that the Celtic Tiger is a FF creation and they are the only party that can sustain.

Labour/FG didnt do enough to persuade people about the hard economic facts that have been mentioned many times in this thread.They focused in on quality of life issues,healthcare etc. and thus misjudged the way our nation has become post Celtic Tiger.

Also there is very little point in attacking the FF party over corruption,parochial politics,nepotism,rezoning etc.FF voters dont see these as issues and its of no concern to them if their local FF politician is corrupt.They vote for him because of "His father was a good man,DeV did great things for this country etc etc".Thats their perception and no amount of giving out about the health service will change that.

The key for the opposition in the next election is to attack FF over economic mismanagement.The likelihood is that the economy will be in the shi.t so their job will be easier.They should be able to chip away at about 40% of the FF support because lets fact it 60% of FF voters are going to vote FF no matter what.But thats enough to get them out of power.



that my friend is an extremly well thought out and accurate presentation of what happend in this election
you are right in your description of the force of nature that is fianna fail in this country , it is askin to the gaa and the catholic church in how it is viewed in this country , particulary in rural ireland where old habbits die harder
another thing thats important to remember is that vast vast majority of peoples decision on which party to vote for is dictated by which party thier mother and father and thier mother and father voted for , we are an extremly narrow minded people in this regard , this is another reason why small partys have never grown in this country, theyve no tradition , that woman in sligo you mentioned who said her father and grandfather voted fianna fail , no one can say that about the pd,s or the greens
your also right in sayin that about 60% of fianna fail voters would vote for the part even pol pot was the leader , it would be heresy to do otherwise but thier was still a remaning minority plus floaters who could have been swayed

the opposition did focus too much on lifestyle issues like health etc, the impression from the meda one would get is that the health service was by far the single biggest issue for voters , clearly it was not and in future i would advise people not to use LIVELINE and its mostly hysterical and unrepresentive of the public in general as a radar of how unpopular this goverment is because of the health service
when it came down to it in this election , people voted based on the health of thier bank balance , us irish are divils for money and were an im alright jack kinda people and no party epitomised this philosophy like fianna fail does

fianna fail being the cute hoors that they are also managed to deflect all the goverments failings on to the pd,s and due to the fact that the pd,s had the biggest hate figure in the last 25 yrs of irish politics in micheal mc dowell , the public gave fianna fail a complete pass and punished the pd,s


last but not least , fianna fail had the trump card that no ther party had
BERTIE , , the man is loved like no other politician in the history of the state , even when ff are in the dock , bertie manages to get a pass , when his coalition partner of the media expressed concern at possible dodgy payments to him , its them who are the bad guys in the public eye and bertie is rewarded in the polls , when bertie steps down , it will be a much more open competition and because the pd,s will most likely not be part of the next goverment , fianna fail will have to do the 2 most undesirable portfolios themselves , health and justic , the pd,s will not be there for them to blame


so in summary i will say that it was indeed no surprise at all that ff have come out on top again

ninty9er

Having spent about a solid hour getting to this point I can honestly say that most of the Anti FF crew are looking at the "alliance"(that never existed) through rose-tinted glasses.

1. To the person who couldn't go to college because their Garda daddy earned too much...come off it!! BS if ever I heard it...my parents combined earn less than a Garda who has been in the job long enough to have a child of school leaving age and I can still go to college without a grant...granted I qualify for fee relief!!! And to all the people who couldn't afford...did you leave school before or after 1996??? Even the downtrodden areas of Moyross and Southill in Limerick send a good whack of teens to college or into trades

2. I was always going to vote FF because I joined a party that I saw as the best way forward for Ireland.

3. I also joined FF because my two local FF TD work very hard on the ground and will always do their best to make representations on someone's behalf. Willie O'Dea is one and I canvassed with Peter Power; the other...who has also done great work in chairing the Oireachtas Committee on Child Protection.

4. This recession people have spoken about happened in 2001 and FF managed the country out of it!! Ask my economics lecturers!!

4. FG put forward policies that it couldn't feasably have implemented to a much greater degree than FF who had a well costed manifesto.

5. Enda's contract with the people was a gimmick which he obviously conned enough people with to gain 20 seats, they just weren't the right 20 seats; which is a message to Enda that he should shove it up his a*se where it belongs.

6. Much like his insistance that he can still form a government, his manifest arithmetic didn't add up either....in both promisis and funding them.

7. FG right wing plus Lab left wing makes less sense than FF Centre Left PD Centre Right.

8. Broadband was an issue for many of the people I got on doorsteps in West Limerick when canvassing with Niall Collins and John Cregan...who were elected first time out topping the poll and elected 2nd out of 3 respectively. The people trust FF to make progress....even if it is slower than expected it is being made.

9. Mary Harney is doing great work on the health service and I hope that she stays on as Minister for Health.

10. PS I'm 20 and most of my friends voted FF too.

11. No I'm not a spoilt little rich kid...I work weekends...took a loan for my car which I paid back 3 years ahead of term...take a full time job in the summer. pay for my own part of the car insurance... and yes even on less than €40k my parents would have taken a loan to send me to college outside of Limerick, but I chose not to put them under that burden as there iscourse that will stand to me jsut as well as my preferred options in Dundalk and Cork

For all the faults of FF I can honestly hand on heart say that I don't think FG could have even matched never mind do better than FF.

The people have spoken.

Diorraing

Its shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that FF got re-elected so convincingly. Full employment is the most crucial thing. The people of Ireland don't want to spend their days waiting around in dole offices - i'm not saying that this would necessarily be the case if the alliance for choice were elected, but people can look to FF's track record and know that they've never had it better.

Lennoxschips

7. FG right wing plus Lab left wing makes less sense than FF Centre Left PD Centre Right.

huh? are you suggesting that FF are to the left of FG? i'm fairly left wing and i'd view both parties as right wing, with FG slightly closer to the centre.

From purely a social policy point of view, it is worth noting that FG legalised divorce in ireland, while it was FF who opposed the introduction of contraceptives and tried to overturn the X case in a referendum.

FF are populist right wing.

ianhobo

wow sierra wrote:

This thread is wrecking my head - we have two people who say they couldnt afford to go to college but who go on to say they are in college.?????.

I believe the point they were making was that they couldn't affordt to immediatly go to college after finishing school, but needed to save for a year or two in order to raise the required finance.

wow sierra wrote:

Theres the angry guy/girl who has an excellent IT/Computer qualification who cant get a related job - but then professional pride I assume, has him contradicting himself saying he has an excellent IT job?????? I'm sorry but I dont get this???

I'll explain then..... I now work in IT, a field completely UNRELATED to any form of engineering, Computer Engineering or Telecomunnications (Think microcontrollers/microprocessors, not websites and emails!)

wow sierra wrote:

On topic 42% of the people who could be arsed to vote voted FF first preference, not the mention all those who gave them 2nd, 3rd preferences etc.

...and 58% didnt

oh, and one more thing....

policy BertieAhern wrote:

....health is a peripheral issue......