Sorry Day for Ireland

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

The Volt

People are just in general, afraid of change.

ainemolloy1

Cyrus wrote:

why should the wealthier subsidise everyone else?

To some extent hey should not, but neither should the taxpayer subsidize the super rich as they have been doing in this country over the last 10 years.

irishash

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

if this is the same industrial wage that gerry addams is on, then you have a point

i come from a family of 4 - all of whom are seperated by on average 2-3 yrs - so at one point 3 family members were going to college

i left college 10 yrs ago - wages were a bit different back then too.

Boston

jmayo wrote:

Yes, maybe I did expect people to have the cop to see the crap they have been fed over last 10 years but I guess I was over optimist.
I guess a better society doesn't matter to most Irish people.

Maybe your choice of nickname is apt. We are more Boston than Berlin.

Lets have a two tier society, where there is one group that do live near the Luas or Dart, can afford private health care, who will drive suvs, who can afford to go to college, as for the rest, they can fcuk themselves or maybe like their forefathers take a boat or plane to a better life.

Oh dear, who let the poor in. You vote in a manner that reflects what it's your own best interest, as do I.

TCollins and BeatNikDub, as Simu said, you're both in college.

So here i am - pleased to meet you - i could not afford to go to college, but i did and worked hard to make sure i could.

So you couldn't afford to college, yet you did. Contradiction?

gandalf

Right I am absolutely itching to ban people at the moment but I am going to warn.

Boston and jmayo stop posting now or I will ban both of you.

Boston

ainemolloy1 wrote:

To some extent hey should not, but neither should the taxpayer subsidize the super rich as they have been doing in this country over the last 10 years.

The Super rich are tax payers, their not separate people. So why shouldn't they see some benefit. I'd actually love to see where this subsidisation of the rich is. The more money you have the less you depend on state service and the more you contribute to the provision of those services.

TCollins

Boston wrote:

Oh dear, who let the poor in. You vote in a manner that reflects what it's your own best interest, as do I.

TCollins and BeatNikDub, as Simu said, you're both in college.



So you couldn't afford to college, yet you did. Contradiction?

I went to college at the age of 22 when i had put away enough money from working in London to do so.
I see you have completely ignored the part of my post that says that my brothers and sisters never got the chance i did, and that i know a lot of other people who never got the chance either.

Do you really believe that anyone who wants to go to uni can afford to? seriously?

johnnyrotten

ianhobo wrote:

Giving the way things are looking so far with the tallies, i personnaly think it is a sad day for Ireland that Fianna Fail and Bertie Ahern are back for another term.

We can now look forward to more public project mis-management, hospital privatisation (only Bertie and his rich friends will soon be able to attend), better tax breaks (again!) for the highest paid, more wonderful roads and less public transport (and no, the metro is always 3 years behind!! (see project mis-management)), more political corruption, developer corruption, greed, "The money was only resting in my briefcase" (Father Ted) oops, i mean Bertie Ahern, and we'll throw in a little bit of sucking up to aul George Bush.

While I certainly am not naive enough to think that there is a perfect goverment out there, one who can correctly manage the vast issues and money while keeping everyone happy, I believe that most could do it a damn sight better than Fianna Fail have done.

FG are not a perfect answer, but at least they would have had a bit of interest and drive in running the country for a while, rather than FF sitting on their comfortable laurels. They've lost interest, like most people lose interest in things after 10 years!!

I know of not ONE SINGLE PERSON who voted FF, but yet it seems they have a near 50% take on the votes???? Is it the same "set in their ways, regardless" (older) people carrying this? mixed with the low youth turnout ??

I am really amazed that the irish people can be soo happy with the current governmetns performance that they want them back for another term.

I'm going to stop here, because this will probably be deleted.
Sorry for the rant, just.....Grrrrrr!!!

Ian

The People have spoken http://www.rte.ie/news/elections2007/toptens.html
The Beauty of a Democracy - The Peoples Choice!

I voted Fine Gael.Sad things did not go there way but I am glad to see a certain dodgy politician from Leitrim get his comeuppance the sly conniving bastard.
Sean Doherty would have been proud of his corruptness!

Boston

TCollins wrote:

I went to college at the age of 22 when i had put away enough money from working in London to do so.
I see you have completely ignored the part of my post that says that my brothers and sisters never got the chance i did, and that i know a lot of other people who never got the chance either.

Do you really believe that anyone who wants to go to uni can afford to? seriously?

Sometimes people have to go out and get a Job after the leaving, or even before, to support others. I refuse to believe that simply having a working class background is enough to prevent people going on to third level education or being poor. If you are genuinely poor there are grants schemes. You can earn on average 4500 - 5500 Euro over a 3 - 4 month summer period tax free. That is enough to keep someone in rent and food for 9 months of college. I know people that do it on less. So I do believe that everyone can afford college if you A) want it badly enough and don't have to support other people.

_Kaiser_

Skimmed through this so apologies if this point has been made...

.. but maybe if there weren't 100's of "invalid" ballot papers in every constituency, there might have been a change (for anyone that feels hard done by - personally I'm glad with the result so far).

How do you mess up a ballot paper? It's not rocket science, and it's just wasting your vote. You can't complain at all then either.

TCollins

Boston wrote:

Sometimes people have to go out and get a Job after the leaving, or even before, to support others. I refuse to believe that simply having a working class background is enough to prevent people going on to third level education or being poor. If you are genuinely poor there are grants schemes. You can earn on average 4500 - 5500 Euro over a 3 - 4 month summer period tax free. That is enough to keep someone in rent and food for 9 months of college. I know people that do it on less. So I do believe that everyone can afford college if you A) want it badly enough and don't have to support other people.

You dont see the big picture at all i think. You need to open your eyes and look at the real world some time.
What about those kids whose parents encourage them not to go to fill in the CAO forms, because the want money coming into the house, junkie parents, waster parents, parents who dont care enough to make sure their kids go to college. Parents who take the kids out of school and send them out working the minute they leave school. Kids who make the decision that they will work while they send their siblings to college.
Its not just about the amount of money they have or their ability to work through college. Its a socio economic problem. And its not black and white at all.

shinzon

I couldnt in a million years see Enda Kenny running this country, a tree in my back garden has more personality then him, i just couldnt in all conscious vote for the man, i just didnt take to him one little bit, i felt his demeanour was wooden and delivery stilted

Any individual can only go what he or she feels is right, and i just couldnt see it with him, so yes i voted FF and make no apologies about it, better the devil you know then the one you dont

Shin

johnnyskeleton

Kaiser2000 wrote:

How do you mess up a ballot paper? It's not rocket science, and it's just wasting your vote. You can't complain at all then either.

Unfortunately, "the man" won't acknowledge the valid and worthwhile efforts of Mr. Tayto to become the next Taoiseach. So when you hear about invalid ballots it is a poor brave soilder like Mr. Tayto, Dustin the Turkey or the monster raving looney party being denied their vote.

As for the OP, I think that the PDs are the cause of much of the last government's excesses, and if FF can get in on their own, or with Labour/Greens/Independants, it would be a much better government in my opinion.

Boston

TCollins wrote:

You dont see the big picture at all i think. You need to open your eyes and look at the real world some time.

I see the big picture just fine.

What about those kids whose parents encourage them not to go to fill in the CAO forms, because the want money coming into the house, junkie parents, waster parents, parents who dont care enough to make sure their kids go to college.

I point you to

A) want it badly enough

Parents who take the kids out of school and send them out working the minute they leave school. Kids who make the decision that they will work while they send their siblings to college.

I point you to

don't have to support other people.

Its not just about the amount of money they have or their ability to work through college. Its a socio economic problem. And its not black and white at all.

Nah, it's about taking control of your own life at 18 and making your own decisions. Your life, your choice.

Froot

I fail to see how 99% of these arguements stand.

If I vote FF and they get elected how am I any less entitled to a vote than anyone else. How am I better off than anyone else? How am I a lesser person than anyone else?

The answer is I'm not. The majority rules, and the fact is that there are probably people who voted for FF who are indeed extremely rich but I'll bet there are those who are extremely poor who voted for FF. Its utter crap to think that FF voters are a select few who live in very specific social classes. Just like its not all republican catholics who vote for Sinn Fein...

I have been in a situation where I have been waiting in A&E, where I have been on a trolley, where I have been in traffic, or on a packed bus or train. I would still vote FF.

There is no 100% satisfactory party and thats just life. The choices you make when you vote are (hopefully) people whose beliefs and hopes are somewhat in line with your own.

People vote for the Greens because of whatever reason, people vote for Sinn Fein for whatever reason. There is no difference between the value of those two votes.

If you voted for FG and FF win then dont tear apart FF voters because you are unhappy with the government. You made your decision and so did they, and the people have spoken.

shinzon

shinzon wrote:

I couldnt in a million years see Enda Kenny running this country, a tree in my back garden has more personality then him
Shin

So you voted against a person because they have no personality?
Did you think Helmut Kohl/Margaret Thatcher/Jacque Chirac has a great personality?
They didn't but they were honest hard working politicans who got their job done.
Did Charles Haughey have personality?

Zaph

It's a sorry day all right. Michael Lowry has just been re-elected. It's beyond me why people keep voting for crooks like him?

johnathan woss

Cyrus wrote:

i voted FF/PD as did most of my friends, work colleagues, we're all 24-27, ucd/trinity graduates in the acc/law professions.

STOP THE PRESS!

Accountants and lawyers voting Fianna Fail. Who would have thought it?

Froot

Deleted User wrote:

So you voted against a person because they have no personality?
Did you think Helmut Kohl/Margaret Thatcher/Jacque Chirac has a great personality?
They didn't but they were honest hard working politicans who got their job done.
Did Charles Haughey have personality?

A fair point. I see where your coming from. I do think that at first I felt it was personality but eventually I realised it was actually the approach the leaders took towards their campaign.

I can honestly say that the reason I did not vote FG is because I felt their entire campaign was effectively FF bashing, which happens, but I felt their campaign was completely devoid of their aspirations for the future and was simply one-upmanship at its finest. I know Enda Kenny is an intelligent man as is Bertie Ahern. I did not see any of the strength I would have liked to have seen from Enda Kenny, at any stage. I did see it from Bertie Ahern. Unfortunately a lot of Ahern's moments in the spotlight carried a lot of arrogance also.

I was on the fence about it for a long time. But when Bertie comes across with a valid plan, Enda Kenny's response is simply how Bertie will **** it up or how Bertie ****ed it up. Where are your balls? Why not show why you would do a better job! I mean if FG got voted in I would honestly feel it would nearly be by default simply because they are supposedly less crap that FF.

Also to add to that thing about personality, I voted for candidates and not the party as a whole. Obviously my votes helped the party but what I mean is I voted for Micheal Martin and not for Bertie. I am not a huge Bertie fan but I like the FF guys in my area...the side effect of this is that Bertie will most likely lead.

One of the major problems with FF is that they are getting stale. Everyone I voted for I felt had a decent outlook and policy portfolio and I liked what I saw. I think that if the leadership in FF was switched around it would be a very different party than the one we saw over the past 12 months, never mind 10 years...

gandalf

zaph wrote:

It's a sorry day all right. Michael Lowry has just been re-elected. It's beyond me why people keep voting for crooks like him?

Yeah was watching that now. Makes you wonder what these guys have to do to get them voted out......

Froot

I reckon they should dig up George Redmond and we can have a reunion

shinzon

Deleted User wrote:

So you voted against a person because they have no personality?
Did you think Helmut Kohl/Margaret Thatcher/Jacque Chirac has a great personality?
They didn't but they were honest hard working politicans who got their job done.
Did Charles Haughey have personality?

No I didnt vote for him just because he had no personality TBH and resent the implication your making in your post


Shin

johnathan woss

Boston wrote:

Voting is an utterly selfish act.

From a dedicated Fianna Fail voter.

They should have called themselves ME FEIN, all those years ago.

slumped

Would ye all give it a rest.

FF have got 42% of the public supporting them.

Most people here are NOT FF supporters. Is this a FG/LAB forum??

S

Stimpyone

bk wrote:

I was just thinking that myself.

I come from a very much working class background myself, my parents never had much money. Yet I was able to go to college, due to free fee's, got the grant, worked a night/weekend job for extra expenses, got a great degree and now I have a very nice solid middle class job.

I work with a lot of folk in the US who are shocked at this as they had to pay over $120,000 (excluding living expenses) to get a similar education.

Ditto

brianc123

it strikes me that in a lot of cases people vote for locally what has/could this guy do for me. The fact is

1. at this stage a lot of the senior civil servants have a FF bias and therefore in the event of anyone other than FF being in government the civil service becomes somehow less effective.

2. If we are on our way to rougher economic times I’d prefer to have the people who know the economy best at the helm

3. I'm far from convinced Enda Kenny is capable of performing on a European/world stage although I think given time he could after all look at Bertie and the anorak!!

4. While I agree the country has problems I believe a lot of these are not easy fixed and that we may well be better off with the people that know the current economy best. Items like the roads, health and education are suffering from years of mis management and cannot be fixed quickly it’s going to take time.


All of that said I’m far from happy about the idea of FF being in government on their own



Brian

shinzon

shinzon wrote:

No I didnt vote for him just because he had no personality TBH and resent the implication your making in your post


Shin

You gave no other reason in your post.From your post,it seemed you were effectivelt dissoving this election to a Big Brother style event.
What were your reasons then?

super_furry

Don't think I could be bothered voting again to be honest. It's not like anything will ever change in this country, the same crooked politicians get power time after time, six months from now people will be complaining when the latest corruption scandal breaks and nothing will ever change.