Sorry Day for Ireland

gandalf

Super_furry if this is what the majority want we have to accept it.

I would nearly lay money on a change in leadership of FF and taoiseach within 6 months depending on the Mahon tribunial.

is_that_so

slumped wrote:

Would ye all give it a rest.

FF have got 42% of the public supporting them.

Most people here are NOT FF supporters. Is this a FG/LAB forum??

S

40% do not support them and their vision. I voted for the alternative for a change because I think we need one.It is disappointing how it may work out but the people have spoken and will get the government they deserve.

gandalf

is_that_so wrote:

40% do not support them and their vision. I voted for the alternative for a change because I think we need one.It is disappointing how it may work out but the people have spoken and will get the government they deserve.

At this stage I am hoping that FF now get a majority so they alone can be blamed for the mess in 5 years. No PD mudguard then

vallo

shinzon wrote:

I couldnt in a million years see Enda Kenny running this country

So is it just a lack of imaginative ability then? Do you remember what Bertie was like before he became Taoiseach ... hardly the great statesman! Can you imagine him donning his anorak to address the UK houses of parliament?

For me, the fact that the PDs are being wiped out is more important than the alternative getting in - but I would have liked a rainbow government.

If there is any consolation, it is this (sorry if I'm repeating other posters): the next govt will probably preside over a downturn, so maybe it's just as well that the rainbow won't be accused of "throwing it all away".

Now, where are we at in Dublin SE?

ianhobo

gandalf wrote:

Super_furry if this is what the majority want we have to accept it.

I would nearly lay money on a change in leadership of FF and taoiseach within 6 months depending on the Mahon tribunial.

thats just it, its not a majority.......59% of those who voted do NOT want FF and Bertie back. The 41% who do are in fact the minorty

ianhobo

And one other thing, if someone wouldnt mind explaining this to me/others

I know the seats per constituant area arent exactly matched population:seat, but would one not expect it to average out somewhat?

With FF currently at 41%
and FG currently at 28.2%,

How do FF have a whopping 37 seats, and FG only 9??

FF get a seat for nearly every % of the votage, whereas FG need over 3 times that for a seat? 3% a seat?

What am I missing..............

ianhobo

gandalf wrote:

At this stage I am hoping that FF now get a majority so they alone can be blamed for the mess in 5 years.

ha ha ha

BigTommyBomb

Majority rules and its a pity that the majority in Ireland are thick as pig****. Well they have made their bed and they can lie in it. I'm not living in this country anymore aspiring to live in some disgusting 3 bed semi in the midlands, commuting through gridlocked villages and paying through the nose for it.
Whats the FFs punishment for failed policies, squandered billions and a nice cosy history of rosy cheeked corruption? An overwhelming vote of confidence.

shinzon

So is it just a lack of imaginative ability then

No id actually rephrase that into no imagination and no ability

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Macha

All those that attribute the increase in wealth in Ireland over the last 10 years have to understand where that wealth came from. It certainly wasn't 'Bertie's Team'

The EU pumped an extraordinary amount of money into our economy in the 80s, which resulted in a huge boost to the country. It was nothing to do with Bertie, who, as the OP stated, has overseen the shocking decline of public services in this country despite this increase in funds.

We are just at the top of our cycle, on the tip of a wave, which is about to crash down as we lose our competitiveness in jobs and companies move further dast. How far will we have to sink before we realise that FF is no good for this country?

I've just come to the conclusion that for some people 2 + 2 = 678. One guy where I work just had a baby and was entitled to no paternal leave. He bitched & moaned for ages but just spent the last week stomping around the office telling everyone to vote for Fianna Fail. Hellooo, they've been in power for 10 years and don't place any importance on your role in a child's life as a father! I just boil up and explode inside.

Note to self - move abroad.

BigTommyBomb

Just to point out a majority have endorsed FF. That's how PR works, you need a concensous from lots of people. While only 40% of people have endorsed them explicitly, they've been implicity endorsed by far more people through transfers.

Thats assuming that they can make a majority in the Dail.

Time Magazine

ianhobo wrote:

With FF currently at 41%
and FG currently at 28.2%,

How do FF have a whopping 37 seats, and FG only 9??

FF get a seat for nearly every % of the votage, whereas FG need over 3 times that for a seat? 3% a seat?

What am I missing..............

Basically there's only been about one TD elected per constituency so far, i.e. the poll-toppers. FF top polls. FG come second. FF will pick a huge number of second/third/fourth/fifth seats as the night wears on.

Time Magazine

taconnol wrote:

The EU pumped an extraordinary amount of money into our economy in the 80s

No, they didn't.

They pumped in about 1-1.5% of our GDP in per year. The Celtic Tiger growth rates were 9%.

Macha

Ibid wrote:

No, they didn't.

They pumped in about 1-1.5% of our GDP in per year. The Celtic Tiger growth rates were 9%.

I would contest that figure. In addition I am referring to the 80s. The Celtic Tiger was during the 90s. I'm talking about a catalyst.

philstar

taconnol wrote:

All those that attribute the increase in wealth in Ireland over the last 10 years have to understand where that wealth came from. It certainly wasn't 'Bertie's Team'
The EU pumped an extraordinary amount of money into our economy

yep yr dead right there....yes we should'nt be so smug ...the celtic tiger has got nothing to do with the economical skill of our politicians more to do with they're "begging" skills.

Back in 1993 the EU gave us a £13 billion pound F@*K off grant, because of the sheer persistance of our politicians going over to brussels every year with the begging bowl.

So lets not be getting up ourselves thinking aren't we great for what we have achieved when in reality its been the handouts from our wealthy neighbours that created it.

Lennoxschips

celtic tiger was because of:
-relatively lower taxes
-dirt cheap irish labour (at the time)
-relatively well educated workforce
-ireland was within the EU market
-we are english speaking
-the US technology boom taking off after ibm etc had settled in

the economy is feck all to do with the government. what the government does with a boom is what counts. management decisions. do we use it to improve the country or line the pockets of developers? FF chose the latter. the people endorsed that decision today.

vallo

shinzon wrote:

No it actually rephrase that into no imagination and no ability

I was actually talking about your imaginative ability .... but if you want to go that far, knock yourself out !

LostinBlanch

brianc123 wrote:

While I agree the country has problems I believe a lot of these are not easy fixed and that we may well be better off with the people that know the current economy best. Items like the roads, health and education are suffering from years of mis management and cannot be fixed quickly it’s going to take time.


All of that said I’m far from happy about the idea of FF being in government on their own



Brian

Not having a pop at you personally but I could never understand this argument. To use a motoring analogy it's like buying a nice new shiny car 5 years ago. Each year you leave it in to the same mechanic for a service and it performs worse each time. This is because the mechanic:

• couldn't be arsed
• doesn't listen to your complaints about it
• is more interested in getting bungs from dodgy suppliers for substandard parts
• is incompetent
  Is interested in billing you for as many hidden extras as he can

You see other cars in other countries driving better than yours. So you know it can do better. Another mechanic says I can do that for you, and tells you exactly what he's going to do to make your car run better. But the first mechanic says if you go to your man your car will stall, and it won't be able to run anymore.

Stick with me, I know the car has got problems (that I am not taking responsibility for) but I'm the man to sort them.

How many people would stick with the same substandard mechanic? I wouldn't; and I suspect a lot of people who voted FF wouldn't either. The sad fact is that some people think more of their cars than they do their vote.

I'd be interested to see this thread in 5 years time and see how many of the OPs predictions come true. Too many I think.

LostinBlanch

Double post

jmayo

Boston wrote:

Electronic and Computer Engineering infact. I suggest you shut up about something you know nothing about.

"Computers, thats like IT yea?"

Boston I do have to reply to this one. I actaully do know something about the subject, since I happen to have a BE Electronics and MEng Computers and over 15 years post grad experience. Next time try and not be so condescending, we might meet when you are looking for that job.

gandalf wrote:

At this stage I am hoping that FF now get a majority so they alone can be blamed for the mess in 5 years. No PD mudguard then

Can't wait to see how they explain downturn in five years.
Sadly the PDs seem to have taken the brunt of the blame for any bad things over last 5 years. Maybe they should have stayed away from two awkward ministeries but at least they had guts to take them on.
Now who would want to go into coalation with FF ?

gandalf wrote:

Super_furry if this is what the majority want we have to accept it.

I would nearly lay money on a change in leadership of FF and taoiseach within 6 months depending on the Mahon tribunial.

Do you know something about Mahon?
What odds are you offering?

DJDC

Majority rules and its a pity that the majority in Ireland are thick as pig****. Well they have made their bed and they can lie in it. I'm not living in this country anymore aspiring to live in some disgusting 3 bed semi in the midlands, commuting through gridlocked villages and paying through the nose for it.

Yes I have to say,we seem to have a quite a percentage of parochial, small minded, corruption tolerating idiots.Anyone who knows anything about economics, will tell you the multiplier effect of government injection for a SOE like Ireland, is tiny in comparison to injections due to trade and foreign investment. This bulls**t about FF creating the Celtic Tiger is complete nonsense. Apart from the setting the corporation tax level and controlling the level of red tape, SOE's are basically dependent on money and investment from abroad to survive and prosper. If Greenspan is right about China about to overheat, this could have a knock-on effect in the US and the EU. We could easily find ourselves in a situation in 3/4 years time where a large percentage of the population are in negative equity due to job losses and a property crash.

Boston

LostinBlanch wrote:

Not having a pop at you personally but I could never understand this argument. To use a motoring analogy it's like buying a nice new shiny car 5 years ago. Each year you leave it in to the same mechanic for a service and it performs worse each time. This is because the mechanic:

• couldn't be arsed
• doesn't listen to your complaints about it
• is more interested in getting bungs from dodgy suppliers for substandard parts
• is incompetent
  Is interested in billing you for as many hidden extras as he can

You see other cars in other countries driving better than yours. So you know it can do better. Another mechanic says I can do that for you, and tells you exactly what he's going to do to make your car run better. But the first mechanic says if you go to your man your car will stall, and it won't be able to run anymore.

Stick with me, I know the car has got problems (that I am not taking responsibility for) but I'm the man to sort them.

How many people would stick with the same substandard mechanic? I wouldn't; and I suspect a lot of people who voted FF wouldn't either. The sad fact is that some people think more of their cars than they do their vote.

I'd be interested to see this thread in 5 years time and see how many of the OPs predictions come true. Too many I think.

In order for your analogy to be accurate, the other mechanic would have had to make a convincing arguement and win you over and convince you that it was worth the risk of changing.

Boston

DJDC wrote:

Yes I have to say,we seem to have a quite a percentage of parochial, small minded, corruption tolerating idiots.Anyone who knows anything about economics, will tell you the multiplier effect of government injection for a SOE like Ireland, is tiny in comparison to injections due to trade and foreign investment. This bulls**t about FF creating the Celtic Tiger is complete nonsense. Apart from the setting the corporation tax level and controlling the level of red tape, SOE's are basically dependent on money and investment from abroad to survive and prosper. If Greenspan is right about China about to overheat, this could have a knock-on effect in the US and the EU. We could easily find ourselves in a situation in 3/4 years time where a large percentage of the population are in negative equity due to job losses and a property crash.

The election don't go your way so the voters are idiots. Nice. Thats really the only consistent argument put forward on this forum for change of government "You'd have to be stupid not to change". Senior Civil Servants deserve more credit for the Celtic tiger then any political party.

David Michael

Boston wrote:

Senior Civil Servants deserve more credit for the Celtic tiger then any political party.

Very much so.

LostinBlanch

Boston wrote:

In order for your analogy to be accurate, the other mechanic would have had to make a convincing arguement and win you over and convince you that it was worth the risk of changing.

No, I think my point was accurate. Some people will think more about where they get their car serviced than who they're going to vote for.

jmayo

Boston wrote:

The election don't go your way so the voters are idiots. Nice. Thats really the only consistent argument put forward on this forum for change of government "You'd have to be stupid not to change".

I think people are stupid not to change, because it means government believe now that they can get away with anything. Politicans need a kick in the ar** to make them wake up and notice that if they do not deliver and are responsible with our money then they are out. Labour in Britain had no experience and were all spin but eventually the Brtish people voted them in, the country did not fall apart, the sky did not fall in.

Boston wrote:

Senior Civil Servants deserve more credit for the Celtic tiger then any political party.

Agreed.
Also Intel and it pains me so much to give credit to them, but Microsoft as well were really responsible for getting the ball rolling. They were the first modern IT related companies to come here and invest. Then all the others paid attention and followed suit.

Boston

LostinBlanch wrote:

No, I think my point was accurate. Some people will think more about where they get their car serviced than who they're going to vote for.

I'm making the point that the other "mechanic" didn't sell himself on how he would do a better job, but rather just pointed out that the first guy was doing a bad on over and over in the hope no one would pick up on it.

is_that_so

Boston wrote:

In order for your analogy to be accurate, the other mechanic would have had to make a convincing arguement and win you over and convince you that it was worth the risk of changing.

I suspect one would choose the mechanic one could trust to do the job and if A had consistently proved incapable of fixing a car I think one would be far more likely to risk B.

BigTommyBomb

The election don't go your way so the voters are idiots. Nice.

I've long known that the average Irish voter is an idiot. Nothing new there. Sure look at Lowry in Tipperary got one of the highest first preferences and there are plenty of people that think Haughey was a great man for Ireland.

I think people are stupid not to change, because it means government believe now that they can get away with anything.

Thats it really. Its good for the government to change hands every now and then and not to let one party get too complacent with their power.