Sorry Day for Ireland

galwayrush

Now that the boom is coming to an end , i think it's great to see Bertie and his idiots back in power to be shown up for their wastefulness and incompetence and see how they try and explain the oncoming recession.
The country boomed despite the goverment, and they took al the credit, but wasted it, now will they accept the blame when it all comes tumbling down.?

Boston

is_that_so wrote:

I suspect one would choose the mechanic one could trust to do the job and if A had consistently proved incapable of fixing a car I think one would be far more likely to risk B.

And if Guy B was just some random bloke on the street saying give me your car, I've no idea what to do with it, but I watched a program on the tele last night in a bar and sure I'm keen and i can't feic it up anymore then it is. opps your car went on fire.

BigTommyBomb: Well thats a great attitude. "My view of someone is the only View, and if you don't agree you're an idiot".

TCollins

is_that_so wrote:

I suspect one would choose the mechanic one could trust to do the job and if A had consistently proved incapable of fixing a car I think one would be far more likely to risk B.

I hate to break the news, but its not a car we're talking about here.

is_that_so

TCollins wrote:

I hate to break the news, but its not a car we're talking about here.

I think we're all aware of that, but my comment about incompetence stands.

county

Noopti wrote:

27 and I voted for FF & Labour.

It was very close for me, but in the end I couldn't justify Enda Kenny as leader of our country.

voted the same as above for the same reason

is_that_so

Boston wrote:

And if Guy B was just some random bloke on the street saying give me your car, I've no idea what to do with it, but I watched a program on the tele last night in a bar and sure I'm keen and i can't feic it up anymore then it is. opps your car went on fire.

BigTommyBomb: Well thats a great attitude. "My view of someone is the only View, and if you don't agree you're an idiot".

Agreed and I think the mechanic allusion has outlived its usefulness at this stage. We are talking about a difference in perception here. I perceived the alternative to be worth voting for and not just a random collection of individuals.

The Muppet

county wrote:

voted the same as above for the same reason

me too

Rb

Can't wait to see what happens next. Maybe someday people will cop on.

Padraig Mor

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Apologies for being slightly OT and not aimed at daveirl personally but....

Many others did likewise (he's through on his first run). He's also been a very good councillor for Castlelands Construction whose (valuable) land plot he has helped open up by pushing through -against planners' advice- planning for a roundabout which will bring chaos to the Bandon Road area. But that doesn't matter does it? Didn't he get me my planning for my one-off house/medical card/turn up at the bingo hall etc (delete as appropriate)!

ghostdancer

honestly, can we merge all this turd into one stupid " i hate the government and i can't believe we voted whatever party they are back in" thread?

Rowley Birkin QC

Im a 22 yo student, voted FF 1,2 and independent 3 by transferring my vote to my college constituency. All this bs about the student vote is ridiculous.

As a student I've seen the country transformed in the last 10 years, why on earth would I want to vote out the leader and party that made this happen? There is a presumption in the media that students automatically vote green or just generally against the establishment. Most of the people in my class voted a mixture of FF and independent.

Then again we are students who will be dealing with planning permission as our profession!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

StupidLikeAFox

At the end of the day, the people have spoken.........

Saintly

Have followed the election from Australia - am disappointed but not surprised at the election result. I have voted for FF in the past but would not have done so this time around.

As a well paid professional, I grew tired of being constantly told how lucky I was to live in such a booming economy - when driving in nightmare traffic to work in a horrific health service, while struggling to get a mortgage. I've watched the ailing dinosaur that is the Irish health system deteriorate over the last few years - I've watching a huge waste/inappropriate use of resources (not to mention the sudden and baffling budget cuts during times of apparent prosperity) and have seen the pure human misery that results.

My huge issue with FF however, is their complete lack of accountability. When projects and policies fail, Bertie shrugs the shoulders, shuffles about some excuse and life goes on. The irony however is that he has perfectly judged the Irish psyche. If accountability was important to the general public, this government would not have been re-elected. I honestly couldn't stomach a complaint about health/education/housing etc from a FF voter any time soon...

Saintly.

cousin_borat

bigkev49 wrote:

the leader and party that made this happen?

Sorry mate, that's a load of crap. Dosent matter who the politicians are. Its the entrepreneurs and the private/semi public bodies working to build the economy in spite of the politicians half of the time.

BigTommyBomb

As a student I've seen the country transformed in the last 10 years, why on earth would I want to vote out the leader and party that made this happen?

Thats just plain wrong. The celtic tiger was already in place by 1997. Was this due to the previous rainbow govt? No. Successive govts. have overseen the economic rise and can only be applauded for not ****ing it up but they were shooting to an open net. Now we can talk about how a lot of that prosperity has been wasted through mismanagement and corruption.

shinzon

vallo wrote:

I was actually talking about your imaginative ability .... but if you want to go that far, knock yourself out !

i know what you meant, and personal insults aside thats why i changed it to reflect what i was talking about


shin

Devrozex

ianhobo wrote:

ok, but did you vote for those 3 FF because of their personal performance as local representatives for you? Or for the good of the FF party?
That is something that is hard to seperate (for me personally anyway).
But of course, I can't speak about your FF representatives, only my own, and those that one would hear about in the media etc
One of my FF reps is a complete waste of space, totally looking in the wrong direction imho

Good point. My Dad votes for the person, I usually vote for the party or coalition I want. I guess Ideally we should vote for the most competant people, but luckily enough for me on this occasion, my candidates were strong enough to get my vote even if the concept of parties didn't exsist.

As for the OP, I am 23 and voted FF 1-2. Guess that makes me a spoilt little rich kid then.:rolleyes: Given my preference, I quite clearly disagree with you, and feel that this is a great day for Ireland. I was worried all the way up to last week that we were going to make a huge mistake on Thursday by falling for the outrageously romantised "Alliance For Change", but was happy enough that that particular coalition proved themselves to be a complete load of hot air on the two main televised debates. The people have spoken, and in vast numbers this time, and their decision is clear. Maybe next time the opposition will come up with more productive ideas then card board cut outs...

Heinrich

Devrozex wrote:

I was worried all the way up to last week that we were going to make a huge mistake on Thursday by falling for the outrageously romantised "Alliance For Change", but was happy enough that that particular coalition proved themselves to be a complete load of hot air on the two main televised debates. The people have spoken, and in vast numbers this time, and their decision is clear. Maybe next time the opposition will come up with more productive ideas then card board cut outs...

So you decided to vote on the basis of what you see as hot air on a televised/staged debate? I would be more inclined to vote on the basis of the performance or lack thereof of the incumbents. Have you ever watched or listened to the Dail debates and seen how the voting goes? How they can push ludricous Criminal Justice Bill amendments through without proper debate. Maybe you could tell us how that particular one was voted.

The people have indeed spoken but that does certainly mean they have made a wise decision. Hot air is spoken - decisions are silent!

Devrozex

No, I decided to vote FF because I felt all along that a FF lead government would be far more competant than any other alternative. But theres no doubt that the televised debate played a huge part in converting a lot of the undecideds to vote for the incumbent government. Theres plenty of FF bashers out there, which is fine, they're obviously far from perfect, but I see no feasable alternative personally. I also note that the vast majority of posts on this board that critises the current government fails also to point out an alternative. Enda Kenny has done quite well to pull FG out of the doledrums, but it was made quite clear that most people would have concerns about him actually being Toaiseach. Rabbitte has struggled throughout the campaign, and that is reflected in Labour's vote, and the Greens haven't made any headway either. As I said before, the "Alliance For Change" peddled a load of fantastic proposals on the electorate, that just weren't backed up by the figures to make them feasible. To qoute the great Dunphy, they're just a bunch of 'spoofers'.

Heinrich

Devrozex wrote:

No, I decided to vote FF because I felt all along that a FF lead government would be far more competant than any other alternative.

al·ter·na·tive /ɔlˈtɜrnətɪv, æl-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[awl-tur-nuh-tiv, al-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a choice limited to one of two or more possibilities, as of things, propositions, or courses of action, the selection of which precludes any other possibility: You have the alternative of riding or walking.

What have the alternative been doing whilst the Government have been in power? In fact what does an opposiyion do in Parliament?

If you follow the Dail debates and look at the messes that are the Health Services coupled with Policing and Justice, Public Transport et al you would probably have different feelings as to who should be leading what and why.;)

Devrozex

I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on the Dail debates, but in my political defense, I've followed the entire election campaign very closely and with a keen eye. I imagine that the vast majority of the electorate are also quite ignorant of the Dail debates, and the Opposition knows this. Which is why they simply must do better then they did this year in the lead up to the vote. Ahern pretty much put Kenny to the sword in the televised debate, and whilst I don't have much time for him personally, McDowell made Rabitte and Adams look almost clueless on any issues relating to the economy. You can make of that what you like, but those debates clearly played a massive part in this election, as they usually do.

is_that_so

Devrozex wrote:

I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on the Dail debates, but in my political defense, I've followed the entire election campaign very closely and with a keen eye. I imagine that the vast majority of the electorate are also quite ignorant of the Dail debates, and the Opposition knows this. Which is why they simply must do better then they did this year in the lead up to the vote. Ahern pretty much put Kenny to the sword in the televised debate, and whilst I don't have much time for him personally, McDowell made Rabitte and Adams look almost clueless on any issues relating to the economy. You can make of that what you like, but those debates clearly played a massive part in this election, as they usually do.

Therein lies the problem, elections tend to be less about real substance and more about image. Issues , to the public are what the parties tell them they are. Any political story or problem tends to die of its own accord inside 30 days. As long as a problem doesn't resurface with venom in a campaign it doesn't exist.

Election campaigns do not tell the true story of how an issue came to be, it cannot tell you how or when the problem began to emerge or who may have caused it. What we are loooking at is a picture that has been shaped for us and no matter how keenly we look at it , it's still just an image. As Heinrich commented much of the real detail has taken place in Dail debates over the five years. But an awful lot of Irish people have no interest in politics and this election has been unusual in the level of interest there has been.

Also the fact that many voters have only "just moved in" to many areas and can only judge what they see through various media also means that they may not actually be aware of who people or, how good they are or what local issues are. Most will get round to it in the last few weeks before an election and base it on the media representation of parties, whether it is through manifestos, TV or other forms of media.

Heinrich

Devrozex wrote:

I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on the Dail debates, but in my political defense, I've followed the entire election campaign very closely and with a keen eye. I imagine that the vast majority of the electorate are also quite ignorant of the Dail debates, and the Opposition knows this. Which is why they simply must do better then they did this year in the lead up to the vote. Ahern pretty much put Kenny to the sword in the televised debate, and whilst I don't have much time for him personally, McDowell made Rabitte and Adams look almost clueless on any issues relating to the economy. You can make of that what you like, but those debates clearly played a massive part in this election, as they usually do.

Three weeks of electioneering is not a sound basis for feeling the right people to vote for I'm afraid. What went on in the last ten years, in the context of a more affluent Europe might be a better basis. Putting Kenny to the sword is not what actually happened, it was what you imagine fits your agenda. Do you know how he performed in opposition? MacDowell, MInister for Justice and Tanaiste who lost his seat and cried in the back of the state limmo did not make Rabbitte look almost clueless. In fact it is he who is clueless.

The debates certainly made a major impact in the way the elections went but that does not mean that wisdom prevailed. On the contrary, it is as bad an indictment as the Big Brother television dross. Self believing people who actually watched through the nigh in the hope of watching something or maybe someone farting. Television, oh dear!

nacho libre

Devrozex wrote:

No, I decided to vote FF because I felt all along that a FF lead government would be far more competant than any other alternative. But theres no doubt that the televised debate played a huge part in converting a lot of the undecideds to vote for the incumbent government. Theres plenty of FF bashers out there, which is fine, they're obviously far from perfect, but I see no feasable alternative personally. I also note that the vast majority of posts on this board that critises the current government fails also to point out an alternative. Enda Kenny has done quite well to pull FG out of the doledrums, but it was made quite clear that most people would have concerns about him actually being Toaiseach. Rabbitte has struggled throughout the campaign, and that is reflected in Labour's vote, and the Greens haven't made any headway either. As I said before, the "Alliance For Change" peddled a load of fantastic proposals on the electorate, that just weren't backed up by the figures to make them feasible. To qoute the great Dunphy, they're just a bunch of 'spoofers'.

You obviously missed the interview with Ahern on six- one then?
Are you aware of the lack of costing in some aeras of the NDP? what about Fianna Fail presiding over the vast wastage of resources? You and many people it seems fail to realize the opposition proposals were based on the findings of experienced economic advisers. They weren't just dreamt up overnight. Figures by definition won't always be feasible- they are based on projections and best estimates-as you can't predict with 100 per certainity what will happen in the future. This is true of any party who comes out with a set of proposals.
Additionally, all parties that hold power rely on civil servants in various governmental department to advise them. so, if the economy starts to downturn those in the finance department allied with advice from independent economic institution, will give the same advice to whichever party is in power to manage the downturn or reverse the decline. Let's be honest the latter is unlikely as our economic boom is not cushioned in some cocoon where we can withstand major turblence in the international market. So at best they can only hope to soften the landing.

One other point about Kenny's lack of experience, Tony Blair had no experience back in 1994 yet went on to lead Labour to three terms of office. Anyway, Fitzgerald was right.... there are no standards in Irish politics. If accountability mattered Fianna Fail would have been voted out. It irks me no end that Higgins, McDowell(granted i don't like his character or what he stood for but he remained steadfast in his views), Crowley have been voted out...
The Irish electorate by and large prefer the "cute whoor" it seems.

johnnyrotten

The electorate have had their say.
Its a good day.

Marcus.Aurelius

Now they (FF) think they're invincible. Well done, all. Economy was never created by them, sustained by them, or helped.

They raped it to death, and last Thursday, we thanked them for it. F**kin well done lads.

Ghost Train

Found reading some of the posts here quite humourous. The fact is FF got most of the votes, so most people want to see them back in government. In your opinion it might be a sorry day for Ireland but if you look at what happened, democratic election with high turn out, i don't see how its a sorry day. Don't think having the election on a different day would have made much difference.

Marcus.Aurelius

bigkev49 wrote:

Im a 22 yo student, voted FF 1,2 and independent 3 by transferring my vote to my college constituency. All this bs about the student vote is ridiculous.

As a student I've seen the country transformed in the last 10 years, why on earth would I want to vote out the leader and party that made this happen?

Because FF and Bertie didn't invent the celtic tiger. They destroyed it and are destroying its last vestiges as we speak. Roaring inflation and internal market strain are killing us.

They raped the damn Celtic Tiger to death, and last week, we thanked them for it.

is_that_so

johnnyrotten wrote:

The electorate have had their say.
Its a good day.

What is your point here exactly?