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Joyriders caught by Gardai. [VID]

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    #62
    lemansky
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭lemansky


    ned78 wrote:
    Pointed out incorrectly! The Gardaí were rude and aggressive from the off. There was no attempt at reasoning, or inkling of professionalism before the violence kicked in.
    Npt really.Theres no reasoning with these pricks.You don't wander up to them and ask them to get out.You shout at them and try and actively get them out as was done.The Gardaí did this with no swearing.Only after they didn't get out did they start swearing.They only got out of the car because of the 'violence'.
    If you think they could be talked out then ,(and I hate to say this),but a reality check is needed.Persuasion is the only thing that could've worked.And it did.


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    #63
    lemansky
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭lemansky


    ned78 wrote:
    No, it's not. Where does professionalism end, and this sort of thing begin? Police in the UK and in the USA are taught to protect and serve. I watched the Police in NYC deal with a bum who walked into their Station when I was reporting a lost phone, they were so diligent and understanding it blew me away. I've been a passenger in a car stopped on a B Road in the UK for being a little above the limit, and we dealt with on a very professional way - the mistake was pointed out, we were given a ticket, and sent on our way without any of the usual "So, you think you're shpeedy gonzales eh? A bit of the Michael Shoe Maker?" sarcasm we're so used to here.
    Quite different circumstances really


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    #64
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    lemansky wrote:
    If you think they could be talked out then ,(and I hate to say this),but a reality check is needed.Persuasion is the only thing that could've worked.And it did.

    Ignorance was the only thing that worked here. And I'm genuinely ashamed to have seen it.


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    #65
    colly10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭colly10


    ned78 wrote:
    No, it's not. Where does professionalism end, and this sort of thing begin? Police in the UK and in the USA are taught to protect and serve. I watched the Police in NYC deal with a bum who walked into their Station when I was reporting a lost phone, they were so diligent and understanding it blew me away. I've been a passenger in a car stopped on a B Road in the UK for being a little above the limit, and we dealt with on a very professional way - the mistake was pointed out, we were given a ticket, and sent on our way without any of the usual "So, you think you're shpeedy gonzales eh? A bit of the Michael Shoe Maker?" sarcasm we're so used to here.

    I recon these lads were dealt with properly, the only way to deal with scummers really. I get what your saying though, they can be way over the top sometimes, but not really in this situation.


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    #66
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    lemansky wrote:
    Quite different circumstances really

    There should never be an circumstantial line to be crossed.


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    #67
    lemansky
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭lemansky


    ned78 wrote:
    Ignorance was the only thing that worked here. And I'm genuinely ashamed to have seen it.
    Don't see the ignorance at all.Scummers didn't co-operate immediately.You don't give them a chance.You do whats necessary.The fact that they only swore at them and didn't kick them onto the floor showed remarkable restraint.


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    #68
    lemansky
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭lemansky


    ned78 wrote:
    There should never be an circumstantial line to be crossed.
    So you'd treat someone like that in the video in the same way as someone who was driving a little over the limit?


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    #69
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    lemansky wrote:
    The fact that they only swore at them and didn't kick them onto the floor showed remarkable restraint.

    Jesus H. Christ! I can't believe you typed something like this. *shock*
    lemansky wrote:
    So you'd treat someone like that in the video in the same way as someone who was driving a little over the limit?

    Yes, of course I would. As soon as the Gard left the car it was "Get out of the f*cking car", with his colleague screaming "You pr*ck". How in God's name could that defuse any situation? The young lad in the car was probably shaking half to death, and didn't want to open the car for fear the Gard would knock his block off. The correct, and professional course of action should have been to :

    Block his escape avenue with the Police Car.
    Ask him to turn off the engine step out of the vehicle calmly.
    Tell him if he doesn't comply, that force will be used.
    Repeat the warning.
    Tell him at this stage that he's about to break the Window (Because it gives him a chance to shield his eyes from broken glass)
    Then remove and restrain him.


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    #70
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    I've had dealings with police in Ireland and England. I've been dealt with both ways by both police forces. But I would say the UK police are a bit more polite and professional overall.


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    #71
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    I think the guards showed remarkable restraint. They couldn't have handled this situation much better.

    It's easy to type here that the gardai are unprofessional and should never swear but they deal with low life scum every day. I'll back their decision over some liberal do-gooder any day.

    I say give the gardai the power to do their job and if that means some scumbag gets a beating, so be it.

    Completly off topic but this reminds me of a book I read about the SAS and the Iranian embassy siege. People asked why the SAS killed the terrorists and why didn't they shot them in the limbs to disable them. The answer was in the heat of the moment you end the threat as fast as you can. The gardai did this in this case. Its very easy snipe from the sidelines.


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    #72
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    micmclo wrote:
    Completly off topic but this reminds me of a book I read about the SAS and the Iranian embassy siege. People asked why the SAS killed the terrorists and why didn't they shot them in the limbs to disable them. The answer was in the heat of the moment you end the threat as fast as you can. The gardai did this in this case. Its very easy snipe from the sidelines.

    How can you compare the Iranian embassy seige to a young lad doing J turns in a car? He's hardly a threat!


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    #73
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    ned78 wrote:
    He's hardly a threat!
    The guy is in a housing estate....

    Are you taking the piss?


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    #74
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    He's screwing around on a residential estate, which is not cool at all, agreed, but the Gardaí are still unprofessional and embarrassing. There's no need for foul language in this instance. As I've stated in a post above, there's a better way to handle the situation - I'm not downplaying what the kid did at all, he's clearly wrong - but comparing the need for violence to the SAS assault on the Iranian Embassy? He's hardly holding people hostage now, is he?


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    #75
    C.D.
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭C.D.


    ned78 wrote:
    He's hardly a threat!

    Sorry Ned, but I have to disagree.

    1) What if there was a pedestrian? Clearly these guys are a threat to them.

    2) They are a threat to themselves, they are clearly barely in control of the car and driving dangerously.

    3) They are a threat to other people's property, look have they destroy that wall. They are uninsured and most likely will not pay the cost of repairs.

    4) They are VERY CLEARLY a threat to other road users, esp. the guards, look at how your man in that video comes very close to seriously injuring that motorcycle cop. What abouts the guards killed on the N11 by joyriders (admittedly at high speed, but these guys could have gone off joyriding else where).

    5) To sum it up (and somewhat repeat my previous points) as soon as the guards exit their vehicle, they are on foot and very very vulnerable in terms of receiving a serious injury from that car if it tries to escape. Tell me if you wouldn't want to get them out ASAP?

    I very very rarely make personal comments on boards, and as a regular reader I respect your sound knowledge of all things motoring, but if you don't believe these guys are a threat, you need a reality check.


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    #76
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    The Police force is supposed to uphold law and order.
    In order to do that they must (MUST!) lead by example, otherwise they will not be taken seriously.

    A bunch of louts in a uniform does not create respect.

    Lack of respect for the police is what tempts young lads into muppetry in the first place ...among other things.

    So in short ...I'm with Ned on this one :D


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    #77
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    C.D. wrote:
    They are a threat to themselves, they are clearly barely in control of the car and driving dangerously.

    Dangerously, yes indeed. But they appear to have pretty good car control IMO! The difference is they have NO self control. This is the type of thing you practise in a closed area be it Mondello or otherwise.
    C.D. wrote:
    They are uninsured and most likely will not pay the cost of repairs.

    There is no evidence that a) They're joyriders, or b) They're uninsured. I'd propose a Mod change the title of the thread to reflect this.
    C.D. wrote:
    To sum it up (and somewhat repeat my previous points) as soon as the guards exit their vehicle, they are on foot and very very vulnerable in terms of receiving a serious injury from that car if it tries to escape. Tell me if you wouldn't want to get them out ASAP?

    If the Gardaí did their job properly, they would have physically blocked the car in from behind, it has already collided with a barrier, and it's only possible means of escape would be to reverse. Take out that factor, and they could very easily defuse a situation they only made worse.
    C.D. wrote:
    I very very rarely make personal comments on boards, and as a regular reader I respect your sound knowledge of all things motoring, but if you don't believe these guys are a threat, you need a reality check.

    Thank you for the compliments, but I don't need a reality check of any sort. I'm able to weigh up both sides of an argument. I haven't once said these guys weren't dangerous, clearly, they were. The only point I'm making is that the Gardaí were unprofessional, and obviously too emotionally charged to deal with the situation in a correct manner.


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    #78
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    Did you ever have a car stolen on you ned? I have no sympathy for scummers, they only understand their own language. I had a car stolen on me some years ago and found it acting as a bonfire in the middle of an estate where these low lifes live. They have no respect for anything or anyone, not even themselves. I don't really think a bit of bad language would hurt their feeling too much.


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    #79
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    He's hardly holding people hostage now, is he?
    Tell you what, ill come down and drive like that outside your house for hours every night and we'll see if you feel like you are a hostage :rolleyes:

    Im no sycophant for the Gardai, but it amazes me that the major point that anyone could take from that video is that the Garda uses a naughty word. Get a grip.


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    #80
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    junkyard wrote:
    Did you ever have a car stolen on you ned? I have no sympathy for scummers, they only understand their own language. I had a car stolen on me some years ago and found it acting as a bonfire in the middle of an estate where these low lifes live. They have no respect for anything or anyone, not even themselves. I don't really think a bit of bad language would hurt their feeling too much.

    I had a break in at my house last month Junkyard, and three subsequent attempts. All my tools were stolen, and one of my bikes.

    The assumption here is because the thread title says Joyriders, that they're joyriders. All I saw in the Video were boy racers tearing around someone's estate, and no proof that the car was stolen.


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    #81
    C.D.
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭C.D.


    ned78 wrote:



    There is no evidence that a) They're joyriders, or b) They're uninsured.



    I'll hand you that! I just presumed from the thread title etc.! Hypothetically speaking, presuming there a joyriders, I think the use of "blunt" tactics with regard to ensuring their safety and the safety of the general public is justified. We shall have to agree to disagree!

    I thought you had meant that they posed "no danger" so to speak which is why I posted, so perhaps I was a little OTT.


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    #82
    Rudolph Claus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Rudolph Claus


    He's hardly holding people hostage now, is he?
    He`s making people and kids be hostages in their own homes. People are afraid to go outside as they could be killed by them fookin pricks. Sorry, i know you dont like bad language but if you get out a bit more you`ll see bad language is used on a daily basis, its probably the only language used by them scummers.

    Seriously, are you a bit innocent or what? The guards cursed at him,,, oh no,,, how unprofessional :rolleyes:
    they were called to the scene, they dealt with the crime in an effective/efficient manner which in my eyes was very professional.

    I`d say your the sort of person that if joined the gardai would last all of 1day because you`d crap yourself at the slightest little thing and panic and probably couldnt remain calm enough to follow your little procedure and theory let alone catch the scummers. But keep posting your molly-coddling ideas for our entertainment.


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    #83
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    CiaranC wrote:
    Im no sycophant for the Gardai, but it amazes me that the major point that anyone could take from that video is that the Garda uses a naughty word. Get a grip.

    Personal insults are against the charter of this thread CiaranC so give it a rest, I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. I'm on the record as stating the whole situation was mismanaged by the Gardaí, and I stand by that decision. Any Police Force in any other country in the world would cringe watching that.


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    #84
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    ned78 wrote:
    but comparing the need for violence to the SAS assault on the Iranian Embassy? He's hardly holding people hostage now, is he?

    Guys, I'm not for a second comparing joyriding to the seriousness of terrorism.
    I'm was simply stating that in the heat of moment you resolve a situation as fast as you can. What if the driver slammed into reverse and a garda was behind the car? It's a very real possibility.

    I'm with Junkyard on this. Well done to the gardai!


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    #85
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    Nuttzy wrote:
    they dealt with the crime in an effective/efficient manner which in my eyes was very professional.

    How was it professional?
    Nuttzy wrote:
    I`d say your the sort of person that if joined the gardai would last all of 1day because you`d crap yourself at the slightest little thing and panic and probably couldnt remain calm enough to follow your little procedure and theory let alone catch the scummers. But keep posting your molly-coddling ideas for our entertainment.

    Post reported. If you can't contribute something worthwhile to the thread, don't bother.


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    #86
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    C.D. wrote:
    I'll hand you that! I just presumed from the thread title etc.! Hypothetically speaking, presuming there a joyriders, I think the use of "blunt" tactics with regard to ensuring their safety and the safety of the general public is justified. We shall have to agree to disagree!

    No we shan't. I agree with you! If these are indeed Joyriders, then they deserve everything they get. But that hasn't been established.


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    #87
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    micmclo wrote:
    What if the driver slammed into reverse and a garda was behind the car? It's a very real possibility.

    If the Gardaí did what they're trained to do and blocked the car with their own, it wouldn't have been a possibility at all. And you're all still making assumptions these are Joyriders. If it was a boy-racer, he'd be sitting in the driver's seat - pale, shaking, and terrified, reversing into a Gard would be the last thing that'd happen.


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    #88
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    ned78 wrote:
    The assumption here is because the thread title says Joyriders, that they're joyriders. All I saw in the Video were boy racers tearing around someone's estate, and no proof that the car was stolen.
    With all due respects ned, your starting to sound like their solicitor, there's every chance that car has been stolen.:rolleyes: My sympathy's for your break in by the way, it's a horrible feeling.:(


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    #89
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    ned78 wrote:
    Personal insults are against the charter of this thread CiaranC so give it a rest, I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. I'm on the record as stating the whole situation was mismanaged by the Gardaí, and I stand by that decision. Any Police Force in any other country in the world would cringe watching that.
    Wheres the personal insult?

    We can only call it as we see it. Frankly, stating that the star of that video is anything other than a joyrider who is a threat the the lives, property and peace of the people of that street is bizarre. You must live in some fantasy world or other. Pop into Tallaght next time your passing and ill show you a few 'young lads' having fun and displaying good car control and you can congratulate them on their ability.

    Unfortunately, they'll probably dance on your head for a while afterwards, the little rascals.


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    #90
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    junkyard wrote:
    With all due respects ned, your starting to sound like their solicitor, there's every chance that car has been stolen.:rolleyes: My sympathy's for your break in by the way, it's a horrible feeling.:(

    Talk to me about it. I had to alarm the garage, put in security lights, replace doors, and then after my wallet had been hurt from that lot, replace the tools. Still haven't replaced the bike ...

    I still think it could be boy-racers though, I've seen this crap going on in Cork with mates watching on and encouraging it. It drives me crazy to see it.


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    #91
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    CiaranC wrote:
    Wheres the personal insult?

    'Get a grip' I believe were the words you used.
    CiaranC wrote:
    We can only call it as we see it. Frankly, stating that the star of that video is anything other than a joyrider who is a threat the the lives, property and peace of the people of that street is bizarre. You must live in some fantasy world or other. Pop into Tallaght next time your passing and ill show you a few 'young lads' having fun and displaying good car control and you can congratulate them on their ability.

    No, not at all. I've stated on this thread that a residential estate is not the place for this type of behaviour. You seem to think I'm advocating what the driver has done, and it's completely the opposite. I don't agree with what he's done, and have no issue in repeating that what he's doing is wrong. But there is NO evidence to prove he's a Joyrider

    How the Gardaí handled the situation is wrong.


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