Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair?

Minto

Me and a few friends were debating this earlier and we couldn't come up with a definite answer. So I ask you;
Who is the greatest of all time? Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair?

If you chose other, please explain.

Vince135792003

Minto wrote:

Who is the greatest of all time?

In what sense as a wrestler or a draw?

Minto

I'll leave that open to personal interpretation.

Vince135792003

Well I don't think anybody can make the argument that Hogan was a better wrestler than Flair.

As a draw? They were both incredible draws.

Bubs101

Flair is the clear winner. Not only is he a better wrestler but because of him we have Triple H, who in a decade or so will take his place among these two.
Also, Hogan sold out

Fozzy

I'd say Flair, for a few reasons. First, in-ring they both often had repetitive matches, Flair to some extent but Hogan very much so. Flair's matches were better in overall quality. With their promos, I can't say I've ever really enjoyed a Hogan promo. Flair's one of the best ever on the mic, he could really sell a feud or a match in minutes

In terms of drawing though, Hogan's obviously on top. The NWA/WCW weren't quite as big as the WWF were, so you'd wonder how much that affected both guys popularity, or how much their popularity affected their companies

I'd almost call them the Shawn Michaels and John Cena of the 80's. Flair being HBK

But if the question is just "who is the greatest wrestler ever", I'd vote other and say Bret Hart

Vince135792003

Flair may not have drawn as much as Hogan in actuality but relatively he was just as a phenomenal draw.

Flair didn't have the machine behind him like Hogan had.

krudler

if there was no hogan we wouldnt know wrestling in the form it is today,no falir and it wouldnt have its history,ability wise flair for his incredible matches with harley race and dusty rhodes among others,plus no 4 horsemen no dx or nWo...

ShawnRaven

It's a toss up with Hogan winning in the end. You could put Hogan in the main event tomorrow and it would draw like nobodys business. Flair doesn't have that same effect over the fans from the 80s-90s despite the fact that he could wrestle rings around Hogan.

Hogans impact on North American Wrestling is far greater than Flairs too, granted he's still hated by a lot of old schoolers for being partially responsible for the circus act Professional Wrestling has become.
VR!

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

You could put Hogan in the main event tomorrow and it would draw like nobodys business. Flair doesn't have that same effect over the fans from the 80s-90s despite the fact that he could wrestle rings around Hogan.

That's in large part due to Flair actually sticking around and wanting to wrestle, while Hogan will only do it if he gets the biggest payout

Vince135792003

Maybe if they treated Flair the same way they do Hogan in terms of not over exposing him he could have a similar impact. I don't think it would be as big but it would be significant.

ec18

I voted for hogan mainly because its only after Flair came in a co-owner that i heard about him.....and plus i grew hearin bout hogan he had that mysticism to the attitude era that the rock and jericho have to new current fans

Vince135792003

ec18 wrote:

its only after Flair came in a co-owner that i heard about him..

That is a scary sentence.

Mr.Nice Guy

Its obviously Hogan. Even Flair has acknowledged that in interviews.

Ask a non-wrestling fan who Ric Flair is and they won't know. Ask them who Hulk Hogan is and they will know.

Bottom line is Flair wouldn't be wrestling week in and week out on a show watched by millions were it not for Hulk Hogan's influence on the mainstream.

Bubs101

ec18 wrote:

its only after Flair came in a co-owner that i heard about him

I'm in the same boat. I couldn't see WCW when I was a kid but Hogan was omnipresent and despite being in WCW, everybody knew him. For kids who grew up in the attitude era, there's no real reason why we should have heard about him. The wrestling back then was so good so their was no need to search elsewhere( like 4 horsemen videos or the such).

I can only remember watching WCW once in a hotel in England where Earnest "the cat" Miller beat some randomer in three minutes and Goldberg crushed Sting. I decided I couldn't respect any company that put Goldberg ahead of earnest Millar, the only olympic silver medalist in wrestling history.


Somebody call my mama
Somebody call my mama
Somebody call my mama etc.

I know wish I voted for other ahead of Flair

nacho libre

It's Flair for me as when I first started watching wrestling around 1989 Flair was the guy that got me hooked on Wreslting. His matches with Steamboat, Harley Race, Funk and Bruiser Brody are classics. wohooo:D

Minto

Some very good points there guys, I'll have to take these back and argue with the lads some more, lol.

I voted for Flair, I really only heard about him after he became co-owner to. I can remember watching him the odd time in WCW on TNT years ago. But when I saw him in WWE and especially his feud with Vince and Taker. I sat up and took notice. I began looking at his older matches and since then he has been one of my favorite wrestlers ever.

ShawnRaven

They're both legends for different reasons though
Flair drew on being Ric Flair, full stop. It didn't matter if you had 10 hours or 10 years experience, Flair took you into the ring and made you look like a million bucks. When WWE went on the promotion raid in the 80s, Flair carried the NWA on his back when the likes of Race, Steamboat and JYD had all been raided by Vince. Even to this day, he can still pull out an amazing match. Flairs accomplishments will be forever recognised and if anyone can't do that, then they're either stupid, or they're not wrestling fans.

Hogan is a legend, but more for what he contributed to the exterior of the business. While Flair was busy making future stars like Sting and Lex Luger, Hogan long with Vince were scheming on making wrestling bigger and brighter. National TV deals, merchandising, comics, t-shirts, movies. With Vince and Hogan, they build up monster after monster for Hogan in the 80s between SNME and Wrestlemania to attract bigger audiences, on screen and in the arenas. Anyone who stepped in the ring with Hogan made money, some even did permanent damage to themselves as a result (Orndorff's arm). Hogan being the big dog during that golden age era was a HUGE part in the spectacle you see today, Citing Mania's III and VI's audiences WWE were drawing long before Rock, Austin and Taker were in WWE arenas.

But as Mr Nice Guy has said as well (one of the few times we agree i guess, must be something in the water ), Flair has even admitted that it's Hogan all the way. However i do disagree slightly as i believe both Flair's influence is just as big and as important as Hogans. Hogan's just had the bigger impact.

VR!

de5p0i1er

Hogan was 50% hype at his peak, I never liked him. Back in the 80's he spent most of his air time ranting about what he was going to do to ppl and only ever fighting during PPV while Flair was on TV wrestling some great matches.

gimmick

As a fan I would say Flair, but Hogans and stature influence can never be questioned. One thing though

Mr Nice Guy wrote:

Bottom line is Flair wouldn't be wrestling week in and week out on a show watched by millions were it not for Hulk Hogan's influence on the mainstream.

Ive seen this been said alot, and dont agree with it it. Sure Hogan was huge, some would argue he still is, but the above statement suggests that pro wrestling would never have got to where it is today without Hogans influence.

Now, I am not disagreeing with MNG for the sake of it here, but is it fair to say that people like Austin, Rock, Cena etc etc etc are direct products of Hogans influence on the industry? Its probably an unanswerable.

Dublin1983

de5p0i1er wrote:

Hogan was 50% hype at his peak, I never liked him. Back in the 80's he spent most of his air time ranting about what he was going to do to ppl and only ever fighting during PPV while Flair was on TV wrestling some great matches.

well said, i never liked hogan, he was all mouth, he cud never hold a match with skill, all his matches were as predictable, as getting raped in the showers. he would point at the person run a around like a idiot, put his hand on his ear, leg drop, game over. in my opnion he is a lot like john cena- john cant wrestle. like hogan. i know all u hall-a-manicas are going to start going mad at me but thats how i hav always felt about hogan, he has no heart or ever did for the business. he is s a damnding bully who charges u over a 100 dollars for an Autograph. Need i say an more. In the argument who is better fatso or Flair. flair all the way baby woooooooooooooooooooo.

im fav of all the time has to be.(in no order)

Brett Heart
Hbk
Stone Cold
Kurt Angle
Mick Foley

Cactus Col

Has to be Hogan though.

He was the face of professional wrestling in the 80's and early 90's. People who had never seen a wrestling match knew who he was. He brought people to wrestling, and kept them watching.

I would say only Stone Cold Steve Austin or maybe The Rock would be on the same level as Hulk Hogan.

Ric Flair was a great talker, and a great wrestler. But to say he had the impact of Hogan would be an outright lie.

I'd put Flair on the same level as Bret Hart. A great wrestler, a great champion, but a step below the best.

Vince135792003

Cactus Col wrote:

But to say he had the impact of Hogan would be an outright lie.
.

He had a bigger impact on future wrestlers in terms of them wanting to emulate him.

Prufrock

Ric Flair. Hogan made people want to watch wrestling. Flair made people want to become wrestlers.

Evil_Clown

Rick is the Greatest

Hogan is just a muppet now, have you seen that show he has, it's so lame
But Rick just keeps on goin

Go Flair,
Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ec18

Flair is a bit sad at this stage though....no offence to the guy but he is well past his sell by date.....I don't think in the wwe he can draw just by being Ric Flair anymore, while hogan can still draw......doing the same gimmicks he had back in the day

Mossy Monk

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

That is all.

Vince135792003

ec18 wrote:

..I don't think in the wwe he can draw just by being Ric Flair anymore

Thats because of how the WWE has treated him. . It has nothing to do with Flair.

ec18

Vince135792003 wrote:

Thats because of how the WWE has treated him. . It has nothing to do with Flair.

maybe but the point i'm trying to get across is that hogan still sells tickets whether you like him or not....and no disrespect to flair but can you honestly say that he's believable as a main eventer and not just someone to put over new guys......he was great and i respect him for what he has done in the buisness and the superstars that got into the buisness because of him.....But if you look at the attitude era (i'm biaste here because it was all time favourite era) a lot of that was hogan influenced....the buildups to the matches on the mic and the mouthing off....talkin smack.....Flair was probably the influential in terms of getting people to want to get into the wrestling buisness but hogan is the most well known....He wasn't solely responsible for the explosion in popularity of wrestling but he contributed a large part to it.


Hogan for Fans

Flair for wrestlers


No flair no HHH
No hogan no wwe (Take it easy on the last part its a personal opinion)

Fozzy

ec18 wrote:

and no disrespect to flair but can you honestly say that he's believable as a main eventer and not just someone to put over new guys

Personally, I would find Flair as a main-eventer a bit more believable than Hogan. When Hogan bet Orton at Summerslam, that was completely unbelievable. Hogan had had one match in a year, he had an injured knee and Orton was less than half his age. And it was a clean pin. Flair has had competitive matches with Orton that I found much more believable than that

Vince135792003

ec18 wrote:

hogan still sells tickets whether you like him or not...

He does once or twice a year. If he lost to Carlito, Rico etc... Hogan as a draw wouldn't last very long wither. If they did the same with Flair what they do with Hogan I think he could too. Maybe not to the same level but it would work.

I think people forget how big Flair was. He peak was before alot of people even started getting into wrestling over here.

Also another thing that must be said is look at the guys longevity. Sure he's very limited in the ring now but its absolutely amazing for a guy who wrestled as hard as he has to be still working at the level he does. How many from his era are working the WWE schedule today?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Vince135792003 wrote:

In what sense as a wrestler or a draw?

i disagree, hogan only ever had 2 moves. flair is still wrestling, and is able to keep up with everyone else on the raw roster

ShawnRaven

Dublin1983 wrote:

well said, i never liked hogan, he was all mouth, he cud never hold a match with skill, all his matches were as predictable,

Thats total crap to be honest, if judging on his WWE stuff alone, then yeah sure, but find his Japan stuff, or his AWA classic with Nick Bockwinkel, then come back to me. His WWE stuff was all the same, mainly because it didn't have to be any different.

If ya don't like Hogan, fine (i personally can't stand him), but basing him on his lazy work when he actually didn't have to work that hard (for WWE or WCW) is just plain wrong.

Thats like judging Austin on his in ring ability (or lack of) after he got injured!

frankcarthy wrote:

i disagree, hogan only ever had 2 moves. flair is still wrestling, and is able to keep up with everyone else on the raw roster

Your opinion is one thing, facts are another.
VR!

Vince135792003

Trinity Prehistoric Zoo wrote:

i disagree, hogan only ever had 2 moves. flair is still wrestling, and is able to keep up with everyone else on the raw roster

I agree. I think Flair was better in the ring.