Where do I fit in??

Trotter

One question I kept asking myself during the run up to the election was which party suited me best.

At the moment, I disagree with many parts of all of the parties' ethos and policies.

I tried out the political compass website but I didnt think it produced realistic results.

How do people ally themselves to specific parties and defend everything they do when they know within themselves that certain things are wrong.

eg.. I met a FF'er yesterday who tried to convince me that the health service was fine.. when clearly it isnt. This guy is a friend of mine and I believe in a lot of what he does.. yet he clicks into party mode to say that the health service is fine, and that the $45000 that Bertie had his hands on was just a co-incidence. I know that he doesnt believe that deep down, yet he follows the party line, even when talking to a friend!

Why do people defend a party to the death like this? Its not dishonesty, I just think its a loyalty that I cant explain.

I'd consider myself slightly right of centre, but very socially aware.

I just dont know what party is.. "home".. for me.

I'd love to feel loyal to a party like that, I just dont know which one.

galactus

Why should you be aligned with any party? You aren't choosing a football team to support!

I read a piece in the Irish Times last week about a Dublin household that always voted FF. "We were always big supporters of Dev".

Complete nonsense of course. Blind faith is the death of intelligence.

nesf

Trotter wrote:

Why do people defend a party to the death like this? Its not dishonesty, I just think its a loyalty that I cant explain.

I've never understood it either. I think that politics is all about choosing the best compromise (best in terms of your goals/politics). Your loyalty should only reside with the group who you think make the compromises most similar to those that you'd make. The problem is that a lot of people can't seem to understand the difference between ideals and reality. Politics always has to compromise between the ideals it upholds and the reality of the situation.

Ideally we'd all like to see a fantastic health service that is fair to all and extremely efficient. In reality most rational people accept that we can't achieve this goal (at least in the short term) and the hard questions are over which alternative will best serve the public good rather than those which would best serve our political ideals.

The problem is, do you support the party whose ideals most closely suit your own or the party whose "compromises" most suit the ones you'd make? The two are not necessarily the same party all of the time.

Cake Fiend

Trotter wrote:

I'd love to feel loyal to a party like that

You're saying you'd like your vote to be decided for you?

Trotter

galactus wrote:

Why should you be aligned with any party?

Well, its all very well being independent but how can someone who is independent seek to represent others when they dont have the massive PR budgets of the main parties?

As was shown in this election, you really do need to have the party machine behind you to get elected.

Did any independent first timer get elected to the dáil this time around? Look at how many independents who got elected built up their "face in constituents minds" while members of a party, and then used this publicity to drive their independent campaign.

Being independent is just asking for frustration while you watch the big parties put thousands of posters up and blitz their way to your vote.

To be heard in Ireland, you have to be (for the most part!) party alligned.

I believe in bits of lots of parties' beliefs.. but its a lonely place here on Independent Street!

Cake Fiend wrote:

You're saying you'd like your vote to be decided for you?

Huh? Where did you manage to twist that out of! I value my intelligence to make my own voting choices.. yet I would like to be able to support people who think like me.. the trouble is, when you believe in parts of what many parties say, there is no one party to be with.

So.. :rolleyes: No.. Im quite able to decide who to vote for.. but I vote for the people, not the party.

daveirl

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mike65

I think I know how you feel, which is why I did'nt vote (had I done so it would'nt have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome in Waterford, indeed its pity its not like Dublin SE for example where every vote really does count then I'd feel I had to make a choice).

Mike.

Trotter

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Absolutely not.. but that is my point.. what is it that makes people so loyal so as to be quiet on things they themselves believe to be wrong.

The Muppet

Great question , I'm a floating voter so I don't have the answer.

I suppose it must be a a bit like following a football team, people support for all types of reasons.

mike65

FF = Man Utd?

Mike.

Trotter

There is no place in modern Ireland for independent thinkers.. mainly because I can be as independent as I like, but its very unlikely (increasingly so) that I would have an independent representative in the Dáil.

How can independent candidates compete with the millions that are pumped into campaigns by the major parties?

One of the main reasons in my opinion for the polarisation of the vote in this election was that those two parties are responsible for a vast proportion of the money spent on election promotion across the board.

If Jonny Independent wishes to put himself up for election, and hypothetically he's capable of being a brilliant representative, he hasnt a chance in cuckoo land of being elected if Dodgy Jonny the useless eejit from Finé Feckall has 10000 posters and a few vans delivered to his house from party HQ.

There's two reasons for this..
A) Election budgets and PR Machines are anti democratic in my opinion.
Ireland is party political.. and not focussed on voting for the best person.


We have a government of the money, by the money, for the money.

So..

If I cant beat em.. I may as well join em!

Which one to join though!

MisterAnarchy

galactus wrote:

Why should you be aligned with any party? You aren't choosing a football team to support!

Primarily due to narrow mindedness and ignorance.

Trotter

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Primarily due to narrow mindedness and ignorance.

Me or people in general? I presume you're not calling me narrow minded and ignorant for questioning why being successful in politics usually depends on being in a party or not.

Boston

mike65 wrote:

I think I know how you feel, which is why I didn't vote (had I done so it would'nt have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome in Waterford, indeed its pity its not like Dublin SE for example where every vote really does count then I'd feel I had to make a choice).

Mike.

Faced with the decision between your vote possibly not mattering and definitely not mattering, you went for the sure thing. Tbh, well done mike, the more people like you out there the more disproportionately the opinions of people like me are represented.

Trotter

Actually dammit next time I'm voting on my own!

Dont worry, I'll seek the advice of the people here first

Trust me.. It'll be grrraaaaand!

Boston

Trotter wrote:

Actually dammit next time I'm voting on my own!

Dont worry, I'll seek the advice of the people here first

Trust me.. It'll be grrraaaaand!

The people in here are moronic.

MisterAnarchy

Boston wrote:

The people in here are moronic.

Look in the mirror .

Boston

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Look in the mirror .

Hey, I'm not some doggit mad dog supporter or anybody