Kenny looking to form Government

is_that_so

bemmet wrote:

God thats original...
Dermot Aherne ,he of the one in two who helped deflate the FG parachute candidate in Louth ,is the one you are qouting here.

he was referring to to the dolly mixture of FG ,Lab/DL/WP,Greens,PD,s and independents needed to give us Prince Enda .

Yes a fairly intemperate foolish one by someone who really should have known better.

I am merely highlighting the fact the FF cannot run a government on their own and will need the help of their "friends" of various hues, a fact that you seem incapable of acknowledging in any form.

is_that_so

bemmet wrote:

Well with few exceptions over the last 40 years it has not worked.

In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king. This is the same party that has given us Haughey, Lawlor, Lenihan, P Flynn, Bertie Ahern, massive national debt and innumerable tribunals. It strikes me that we the electorate are a bit wiser than that. Defend your party if you must but please don't spout such doggerel as fact.

Blondie86Star

Thats rediculous.The main reason why voters came out so strongly for FF is cos they (a) didnt want to take the chance with a change and (b) kenny has no leadership qualities.

Time to bite the dust me thinks

Blondie86Star

Blondie86Star wrote:

Thats rediculous.The main reason why voters came out so strongly for FF is cos they (a) didnt want to take the chance with a change and (b) kenny has no leadership qualities.

Time to bite the dust me thinks

A) Possibly

Kenny lead a party from the brink of extinction to gain 20 seats and create a credible alternative government. If that isn't leadership I don't know what is.

Bite the dust, I think not.

bleg

is_that_so wrote:

In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king. This is the same party that has given us Haughey, Lawlor, Lenihan, P Flynn, Bertie Ahern, massive national debt and innumerable tribunals. It strikes me that we the electorate are a bit wiser than that. Defend your party if you must but please don't spout such doggerel as fact.

Whats wrong with Bertie? No accusations have been proven against him yet. He is the second most successful politicians in Ireland and one of the most successful politicians in Europe at the moment. Don't forget he was the preferred choice for the eurpoean comission.

JerkyBoy

Bleg, what's wrong with Bertie?

How about for one, he lied to us, the Irish people, last year when he gave his sob story about the circumstances around his "loans" from his "friends".
Check his interview with Brian Dobson, and then check his statements to the Tribunal.
He lied to us. Clear as day.

To us the Irish people:
Ahern:
"I also had to pay off other bills, so the money I'd saved [£50,000] was gone. So my friends knew that. I had no house, the house was gone so they decided to try and help me."

Then to the Tribunal:
O'Neill:
"Well, we know that as of 27th of December, that is let's say the day upon which you recieved the 22,500 [dig-out from friends]. You were already in funds to the extend of 70,000 pounds, isn't that right?"

Ahern:
"That's correct"

He clearly lied to us about the circumstances of the payments given to him by business people, which enriched him.

Leaders who are dishonest are not good leaders.
I'm ashamed of my Taoiseach!

nesf

ronoc wrote:

Oh the arrogance and smugness of Fianna failers knows no bounds.

Eh, for someone who makes accusations of people having simplistic political views, that remark is just a little childish tbh as well as being generally insulting to the rest of us.

ninty9er

Ronoc...you need to go cool off....the people trust FF to make progress ans as has already been explained to you NUMEROUS TIMES...Enda has no big ministerial experience...which he would need to be a viable TAOISEACH...Bruton on the other hand has been a senior minister and would have been a much wiser choice for FG than a man who had to battle for the 5th seat in his constituency in 2002.

He didn't even make quota until the 9th count FFS and he's made leader!!!

ninty9er

JerkyBoy wrote:

Leaders who are dishonest are not good leaders.
I'm ashamed of my Taoiseach!

If FG won this election I'd be embarassed by my Taoiseach....Bruton was by far a better option and would have gotten the numbers....plus he probably wouldn't have done the deal with Labour which is what screwed Labour in the end and ruled out FG/Lab govt

Blondie86Star

ninty9er wrote:

If FG won this election I'd be embarassed by my Taoiseach....

seconded

JerkyBoy

Blondie86Star wrote:

>>If FG won this election I'd be embarassed by my Taoiseach....
seconded

Interesting that some people are not embarrased about the fact that our Taoiseach is a lying, stuttering, incoherent, mumbling, banana-coloured-jacket-wearing-among-well-dressed-world-leaders, gombeen man, who cheated on his wife and kids, then got his friends to cover his daughter's education funds while he was off spending magically aquired cash doing up a house with his mistress.

While at the same time these people would find an articulate intelligent man -who took his party from the brink of collapse, to the precipice of Government, who has no questionable finances, no questionable personal history of betraying his family, and who is not being investigated by a corruption tribunal - to be much more emabarassing than the afore mentioned cheater\liar!

Yeah, Kenny's a real low-life compared to Bertie! ;-)
ROTFLMAO!

The fact that Bertie can still manage to convince people of the "average nice guy" image with all of his dirty deeds right out there in the public domain, makes me respect him somewhat. He is as cunning and devious as CJH once said!
However, it also makes me sad that the Irish electorate are as thick as two planks, or if not, are then as morrally shallow as the man they're not embarrased by.
Very sad reflection on us as a people.
And then we have the gaul to criticize the Americans for same.

DeepBlue

If you look back at the last five Taoisigh(sp?) you'll find people who are embarrassed at all of them. Ahern, Bruton, Reynolds, Haughey and Fitzgerald all have had their naysayers and those who say they cringe when they see them at any world events.
It says more for the mentality of the naysayers and their own inferiority complex about being Irish and their belief that Irish people are automatically second class citizens when compared to their European or World counterparts..

Tbh I'm embarrassed for those that say they're embarrassed :rolleyes: .

JerkyBoy

It says more for the mentality of the naysayers

It shows that the naysayers expect integrity and honesty from their elected officials.

Wow, what a strange concept!!!

Khannie

It seems to me that this is just playmaking. He's helping to strengthen the positions of those who stood with him in the race and lost out because of that (i.e. labour and greens). As others have pointed out, it somewhat deflates the perception of the runaway FF train too, and reminds people just how well FG did (at least v's 2002).

Overall, a great move, though (IMO at least) not a serious proposition.

ninty9er wrote:

Enda has no big ministerial experience...which he would need to be a viable TAOISEACH

Need is the wrong word there. As others have said, it would be preferable but not necessary. Not a huge fan of either man tbh (though I definitely think Bertie has the edge personality-wise).

JerkyBoy

JerkyBoy wrote:

Interesting that some people are not embarrased about the fact that our Taoiseach is a lying, stuttering, incoherent, mumbling, banana-coloured-jacket-wearing-among-well-dressed-world-leaders, gombeen man, who cheated on his wife and kids, then got his friends to cover his daughter's education funds while he was off spending magically aquired cash doing up a house with his mistress.

Think you have scraped through the bottom of the barrel there with those nasty remarks.

They people have spoken. A large number want him as leader, and don't care about his family situation. If you don't accept it, you have a grim few years in front of you.

CerebralCortex

Deleted User wrote:

Think you have scraped through the bottom of the barrel there with those nasty remarks.

They people have spoken. A large number want him as leader, and don't care about his family situation. If you don't accept it, you have a grim few years in front of you.

Does he? Not according to you. Or are you beginning to regret the way you voted?

Money Shot

Deleted User wrote:

The people have spoken. A large number want him as leader, and don't care about his family situation.

Sadly this is true - the people have indeed spoken, and said that they are happy with Bertie and what he is doing ! By this vote they have also said that they don't care about his personal indescretions.

It won't be easy, but I'm going to try and draw a line under this and give him a chance to redeem himself over the next five years. We just have to accept it now and hope that this time he wasn't just full of spin and empty promises.

We can get an indication of which way he wants to take the country by his portfolio appointments. I still don't think we will have a proactive government, but they now deserve the chance to prove us wrong - 'it's the will of the people'

gbh

pjbrady1 wrote:

There could be 3 pro Enda independents, Lowry (ex FG), Gregory (constituency man), McGrath (constituency man), Bev (the girl who could give Mayo a Taoiseach).
Bevs vote is an anti establishment vote. Mayo was all one constituency, she picked up a strong Castlebar vote. Imagine her national profile if she stuck the knife in Bertie.
Healy Rae, will make both sides sweat, but I'd imagine he would side with FF.

PDs surely will have some of their party calling for them not to go into government with FF. In ten years the party has been destroyed and has consistently taken any flak that was thrown at the government. If they want to renew they will have to do that away from the doorstop power that sharing with FF represents.

I just can't see the next goverment lasting the full five year term. Its been so long since the Irish Dail has heard the words "raising taxes" and "cutbacks".
P.J.

I agree...I think Beverly could be clever and give Bertie a good kick by not voting for him as Taiseach and give Enda her support until Bertie is ousted as leader of Fianna Fail. After all Bertie did his best to undermine her campaign...i think she would be foolish to support him after that...get Bertie out and Cowan in should be her plan...

JerkyBoy

Deleted User wrote:

Think you have scraped through the bottom of the barrel there with those nasty remarks.

Nasty remarks?

He's the one who brought his familiy into it in an attempt to gain sympathy from the public, and seemed to pretend to cry when talking about his daughter's education funds. No-one asked him to bring up his family details.

He's the one who dishonestly said he used the "loans" that his "friends" gave him to cover his bills and separation costs. Taking multiple loans from many, to pay a single loan? Who does that? A Minister of Finance should understand economics better than that.

He's the one who admitted then to the contrary, that he was actually in funds of £70,000 at the time he received these "loans" from "friends".

He the one who claimed that he had £50,000 to do work on his house along with the woman with whom he cheated on his family.

If I am angry that my Taoiseach mislead us about getting money from businessmen, which enriched him until he was caught out, then so be it.

These issues, and his own words which have exposed him, speak to the kind of man we have as our national leader.
IMO, an apparent cheater and liar.

It sucks that we can't have a Taoiseach with some integrity.

lucernarian

Deleted User wrote:

Think you have scraped through the bottom of the barrel there with those nasty remarks.

They people have spoken. A large number want him as leader, and don't care about his family situation. If you don't accept it, you have a grim few years in front of you.

Definetely. I also think those insults about Bertie are a dangerous thing to be saying on Boards.

Back on topic, I think Enda is playing a very clever game here. Part of me wonders if he's cushioning his ego, as someone mentioned earlier, but whether he is or not, he's making life difficult for Bertie Ahern. Brian Cowen's unfortunate comments about not being needed to be cleaned up were very militant and mabye this could hinder coalition negotiations, especially if they are forced to go Independents and PDs.

I think FG/Lab might be more willing to please to get into govt, and while it most likely won't carry them over the finishing line, it will give the opposition negotiating experience and will put strain on FF's negotiations.


CerebralCortex, I don't quite follow you (no offence meant). What do you mean by "Does he?"

Btw, "Jerkyboy", I don't think you've any damn right to ask about his family details. Whatever about possible corrupt details, his family life is separate to that. Cop on.

JerkyBoy

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I think Enda is playing a very clever game here. Part of me wonders if he's cushioning his ego, as someone mentioned earlier, but whether he is or not, he's making life difficult for Bertie Ahern.

Btw, "Jerkyboy", I don't think you've any damn right to ask about his family details. Whatever about possible corrupt details, his family life is separate to that. Cop on.

I agree, I think Enda is trying to put the squeez on Ahern and remind people that neither of the two alternatives have been elected by the people, with 43% versus 42%, and that both need the support of the PDs and independents to make a Govt.

As for Bertie's family life...I'm not asking any questions about it...so don't accuse me of that! He's already said enough about it, and no-one asked him to bring it up either.

My question is why did he mislead us about being in trouble and needing help from his "friends" when he was swimming in cash at the time they gave it to him.
That's my question and I think it's valid.
The fact that he used his family to seek sympathy when he was misleading us all about his financial situation, I find repugnant. Hence why I brought it up in relation to his character and whether or not he is an embarrassment as Taoiseach!

nesf

nesf wrote:

Eh, for someone who makes accusations of people having simplistic political views, that remark is just a little childish tbh as well as being generally insulting to the rest of us.

I'm a little annoyed with the perception people have of kenny from the FF spin machine. But i'll accept that and move on. The potential FF government doesn't look like it it has the legs to go 5 years.

Fianna Fail is tainted party as the soon to be outgoing Bertie will know all too well.


But I accept my comments were overboard and I take them back.

E92

While I have no interest nor want to discuss the private affairs of the Taoiseach,it was the Taoiseach who started discussing the affairs of his family. So its a bit silly the way some people are reacting to others dicussing thing that Bertie made public. As I say I dont want to talk about it either, so lets just leave it at that.
If there is anything strange about the Taoiseachs private and/or financial affairs, we have the Mahon tribunal there to discuss it so lets leave the tribunal to investigate it.

ninty9er

ninty9er wrote:

Ronoc...you need to go cool off....the people trust FF to make progress ans as has already been explained to you NUMEROUS TIMES...Enda has no big ministerial experience...which he would need to be a viable TAOISEACH...Bruton on the other hand has been a senior minister and would have been a much wiser choice for FG than a man who had to battle for the 5th seat in his constituency in 2002.

He didn't even make quota until the 9th count FFS and he's made leader!!!

Bruton is too divisive given the recent history of FG. Kenny would have been an ideal choice, history is full of great leaders who havn't had ministerial experience. Lack of experience is endemic among the opposition because of the tight grip FF have held on power. 23 of the last 25 years..

Lack of experience is not a valid excuse anymore. Perhaps FF should pass some sort of enabling act and eliminate the opposition alltogether. That would prevent any danger of their inexperience taking power!

JerkyBoy

E92 wrote:

If there is anything strange about the Taoiseachs private and/or financial affairs, we have the Mahon tribunal there to discuss it so lets leave the tribunal to investigate it.

Anything strange? This just in:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0528/mahon.html

Ouch for Bertie.

gbh

Bertie Ahern presided over:

Electronic voting
P-Pars
non-spending in BMW region
shell-corrib gas fiasco
health service melt-down
decentralisation debacle

to name but a few....

but he's a nice guy and apparantly thats all that counts when it comes to choosing a Taoiseach...

jjbrien

With the news of the Mahon Tribunal coming in Enda Kennys chances of becoming leader of our great nation are becoming better by the second!!! We wll have to wait with instrest to see whats going to happen.

bemmet

Away with the fairies!

K-9

jjbrien wrote:

With the news of the Mahon Tribunal coming in Enda Kennys chances of becoming leader of our great nation are becoming better by the second!!! We wll have to wait with instrest to see whats going to happen.

Well I suppose it's an improvement on no hope. So who is Kenny relying on, the PD's, Jackie Healy Rea, SF or FF?

K-9

ninty9er wrote:

If FG won this election I'd be embarassed by my Taoiseach....Bruton was by far a better option and would have gotten the numbers....plus he probably wouldn't have done the deal with Labour which is what screwed Labour in the end and ruled out FG/Lab govt

True.

Has Kenny said himself "dream on baby". !