Harney back in charge of Health?

Heinrich

BoozyBabe wrote:

Yes, & depending on your postcode, you either get it, or you don't!!
Yes, a very fair system, as usual. :rolleyes:

Where is this machine actually in operation?

What about cervical cancer screening?

miles teg

BoozyBabe wrote:

Yes, & depending on your postcode, you either get it, or you don't!!
Yes, a very fair system, as usual. :rolleyes:

I think any resonable person would accept the fact that a process of that magnitude takes time to implement properly. Anything worth doing takes time and effort. It's been 2 years since the national expansion of breastcheck started and it's virtually complete:
http://www.breastcheck.ie/about/history.html
2 years seems like a short period of time to me

Don't worry, your breasts will be safe from next year on

miles teg

Heinrich wrote:

Where is this machine actually in operation?

What about cervical cancer screening?

The "machine" is a number of mobile units and services locations in rotation.
I think in general, people should do some research before they make claims about various health services

BoozyBabe

miles teg wrote:

Don't worry, your breasts will be safe from next year on

That's not even remotely funny!!! :mad:

It's a big fcuking joke isn't it that 1/2 the bloody country haven't a clue if they're dying of breast cancer just because of their address. Yea, realy funny.

As it turns out, the area I'm in has breast screening. That doesn't make me any less annoyed for those who don't.

Plus, what's the actual age of when you're eligible for screening?

It's no where near young enough anyway.
I've had a few scares & I can tell you, I'm a long way away of being eligible for such screening.

I had to practically fight & then wait forever to be checked.

ednwireland

miles teg wrote:

I think any resonable person would accept the fact that a process of that magnitude takes time to implement properly. Anything worth doing takes time and effort. It's been 2 years since the national expansion of breastcheck started and it's virtually complete:
http://www.breastcheck.ie/about/history.html
2 years seems like a short period of time to me

Don't worry, your breasts will be safe from next year on

see the northwest doesn't get a mention as usual - sorry it does but with no specific timescale

Heinrich

miles teg wrote:

The "machine" is a number of mobile units and services locations in rotation.
I think in general, people should do some research before they make claims about various health services

The "research" shows that the screening is available within certain areas and for a certain age group. Lots more to do, lots and lots. Now what is readily available for other forms of cancer screening? Prostate, cervical...

miles teg

BoozyBabe wrote:

That's not even remotely funny!!! :mad:

It's a big fcuking joke isn't it that 1/2 the bloody country haven't a clue if they're dying of breast cancer just because of their address. Yea, realy funny.

As it turns out, the area I'm in has breast screening. That doesn't make me any less annoyed for those who don't.

Plus, what's the actual age of when you're eligible for screening?

It's no where near young enough anyway.
I've had a few scares & I can tell you, I'm a long way away of being eligible for such screening.

I had to practically fight & then wait forever to be checked.

I'm sorry if i offended you... was trying to keep some lightheartedness in the discussion. Breastscreening is now national... everyone gets it.
Age eligibilty was determined based on research undertaken into breastcancer... there's no point in just making up some age to startt screening because it sounds good to the public... it's based on statistical likelyhood of developing it.

Bear in mind that screening is different than diagnosing. If you had a few scares, there's no point in you being screened

jmayo

Deleted User wrote:

You overestimate my importance!

Membership of the party is open to anyone. Would have thought Harney would be welcomed back with open arms. On the other hand, if someone like Parlon were to join and it was perceived that he was doing so solely to revive his career, think local cumainn and in particular those individuals with their own ambitions would fight it tooth and nail.

I would have said it would depend on the local cumainn.
Maybe bad blood over who left and who stayed?
Was Parlon ever a member?
All I remember of him is IFA. I remember him in front of me at Jurys reception desk in Ballsbridge one evening. I should have kicked in the ars* then.
I know FF (or anyone in right mind) would have wanted McDowell. Very devisive individual I always thought.

meanmachine3

I couldn't care less if the wicked witch of the east or whoever she is got the health job as long as it's not someone from the politically dead party. this is just my own personal opinion but i cannot stand the site of any one from the P.D.'s.To me it's always been harney that ran the country for the last few years not bertie.
For those that would like to see harney back. Can you please tell me.
(1) What she has done for the health services? and
(2) How she has improved it?
i'm facinated to hear what you have to say

miles teg

Heinrich wrote:

The "research" shows that the screening is available within certain areas and for a certain age group. Lots more to do, lots and lots. Now what is readily available for other forms of cancer screening? Prostate, cervical...

Of course its for a certain age group... that's what screening involves. You wouldn't have a 2 month old girl screened for breastcancer.
Mobile units are rolled out over the country. What you're referring to is static units i.e. buildings such as the ones in Eccles street or in Merrion.

As I said in previous post, some research would be helpful before making claims.
I think this thread is also getting bogged down in specifics. I won't go into any other specific areas of health.
The main topic was if it's insulting to the irish public for Mary Harney to continue as health minister. I believe overall she is doing a good job... more successes than failures.
I would be happy to have her continue as health minister

Heinrich

miles teg wrote:

Of course its for a certain age group... that's what screening involves. You wouldn't have a 2 month old girl screened for breastcancer.
Mobile units are rolled out over the country. What you're referring to is static units i.e. buildings such as the ones in Eccles street or in Merrion.

As I said in previous post, some research would be helpful before making claims.
I think this thread is also getting bogged down in specifics. I won't go into any other specific areas of health.
The main topic was if it's insulting to the irish public for Mary Harney to continue as health minister. I believe overall she is doing a good job... more successes than failures.
I would be happy to have her continue as health minister

Whatever.

silvine

meanmachine3 wrote:

. Can you please tell me.
(1) What she has done for the health services? and
(2) How she has improved it?
i'm facinated to hear what you have to say

(1) Took on the consultants

(2) Implemented the National Treatment Purchase Fund, reducing waiting times for operations

(3) Dealt with the nursing home charges issues

(4) Reduced the Health Service's notorious red tape and bureacracy

(5) Volunteered for a job FF's Michael Martin described as political "Angola", when more attractive ministerial opportunities were on offer

(6) Introduced risk equalisation into the Irish healthcare market, saving the VHI ( a move upheld by the High Court)

(7) Pressed ahead with Children's hospital plans despite strong opposition from vested interests

Gosh

(1) Took on the consultants - hasn't resolved anything yet

(2) Implemented the National Treatment Purchase Fund, reducing waiting times for operations - sent people abroad for treatment as our own system can't handle it

(3) Dealt with the nursing home charges issues - I suspect most people still waiting for their compensation wouldn't see it as 'dealt' with

(4) Reduced the Health Service's notorious red tape and bureacracy - where's the evidence of this ?

(6) Introduced risk equalisation into the Irish healthcare market, saving the VHI ( a move upheld by the High Court) - forced a competitor out of the market

(7) Pressed ahead with Children's hospital plans despite strong opposition from vested interests - ???

The Insider

Heinrich wrote:

Whatever.

Great response.

I for one want Harney back in, through my own personal experiences I have seen an improvement in the health services. Had no private health care and injured my knee, before the National Treatment Purchase Fund the waiting times though public health care for the operation I needed was anything between 18 - 24 months.

Was on the waiting list for 3 months which entitled me to go through the purchase fund, was seen by the top orthopedic surgeon in the country, had my operation in the Mater private all under my public health care and within 4 months of contacting the purchase fund. Its a fantastic scheme and is a major improvement.

I have also been in A&E(in both Beaumount and the Mater public) in relation to some health problems my family and I have had on numerous occasions in the past 2 years. There has been a continuous improvement in the waiting times, indeed the last time I was in there I was seen to (including a number of tests, x-ray etc) within 2 hours.

She has stood up to the nurses and consultants and her plan to build private hospitals beside public ones will free up all the private beds that are currently in public hospitals.

Change in the Health sector will take years as its being in a bad state for decades, IMO if Harney gets another 5 years she will continue to improve it by leaps and bounds and I suspect history will look back favorably on Harney as the person who finally sorted out the health service mess.

silvine

Gosh wrote:

(1) Took on the consultants - hasn't resolved anything yet

A quick fix health solution? If there is one thing all the parties are agreed on it is that change in the health service is notoriously slow.

(2) Implemented the National Treatment Purchase Fund, reducing waiting times for operations - sent people abroad for treatment as our own system can't handle it

At least she did something positive, and it has reduced waiting times.Our own system might not be able to handle it at the moment but this relieves some of the pressure.

(3) Dealt with the nursing home charges issues - I suspect most people still waiting for their compensation wouldn't see it as 'dealt' with

The issue is now out in the open and being dealt with which is more than can be said for previous Health Ministers who ignored the elephant in the corner.

(4) Reduced the Health Service's notorious red tape and bureacracy - where's the evidence of this ?

Widely acknowledged.

(6) Introduced risk equalisation into the Irish healthcare market, saving the VHI ( a move upheld by the High Court) - forced a competitor out of the market

who were quickly replaced by the Quinn group.

(7) Pressed ahead with Children's hospital plans despite strong opposition from vested interests - ???
The building National Children's Hospital on the Mater site - a more controversial decision but she is certainly not courting popularity or avoiding the issue.

It is easy to attack any Minister of Health. I am not convinced they're is anyone who can do a better job. Are you name another more suitable alternative?

The White Rose

It is easy to attack any Minister of Health. I am not convinced they're is anyone who can do a better job. Are you name another more suitable alternative?

Jackie Healy-Rae?

Zaph

silvine wrote:

(4) Reduced the Health Service's notorious red tape and bureacracy

It may have been reduced, but not eliminated, and this is what's wrong with the health system, not who the current minister is. Money has been spent unwisely and the whole system is top heavy with administrative staff and it's the HSE, not the government, who are responsible for this. Sure, the government funds the HSE, but they can hardly just cut off the money until the HSE sorts itself out, can they? Harney inherited an antiquated and badly run health system and to be fair she's done probably as much as anyone could in the length of time she's been there. I'd love to see any other politician volunteering for a job that is political suicide. And no, I'm not a PD fan, I was as happy as everyone else to see them obliterated.

Gosh

silvine wrote:

It is easy to attack any Minister of Health. I am not convinced they're is anyone who can do a better job. Are you name another more suitable alternative?

Wasn't attacking her - was seeking clarification on your points. Don't think I've said she wasn't suitable and I can't think of an alternative so she probably is the best person to carry on - putting somebody else there will only slow progress down even further.

John_C

Heinrich wrote:

The "research" shows that the screening is available within certain areas and for a certain age group. Lots more to do, lots and lots. Now what is readily available for other forms of cancer screening? Prostate, cervical...

There's someone on these boards whose signature is a quote from George Orwell; "Half a loaf is the same as no bread.".

I think this is a pretty good example of the argument.

Stark

John_C wrote:

There's someone on these boards whose signature is a quote from George Orwell; "Half a loaf is the same as no bread.".

And up to now, I thought Orwell was an intelligent guy.

Jamar

Surely she would be a lame duck...her ability to take on interests is limited. As Tanaiste, she would have had a big say in budgets, etc. but not now.

FF won the election (more or less) and now have to govern: even the bits they'd prefer not to.

Heinrich

Stark wrote:

And up to now, I thought Orwell was an intelligent guy.

He was at the table with half a loaf at the time of writing.:D

Mind you I see little comparison between a failing health service and breadloaves. This is the one that Harney and Ahern clain in the Dail Chamber to be "World Class"

Peripheral issues

DublinWriter

silvine wrote:

(5) Volunteered for a job FF's Michael Martin described as political "Angola", when more attractive ministerial opportunities were on offer

That was Brian Cowen's quote.

Michael Martin commissioned something like 150 reports from Management Consultants during his tenure in Health. The sum cost of the reports and studies he commissioned was roughly about the same cost as the E-Voting machines. Martin never implemented the recommendations of any of these reports and his nickname around Leinster House was "The Minister for Reports".

Although I despise the PD's (and I'm far from being called a pinko-leftie), Harney is the most compentant of a very depleted talent-pool at Ministerial level.

I've always admired her for the way she took the Taxi Drivers, the second most militant lobby group after the Vintners Federation.

If you can say one thing about her, it's that she has guts (no pun intended!).

Gosh

silvine wrote:

(7) Pressed ahead with Children's hospital plans despite strong opposition from vested interests - ???
The building National Children's Hospital on the Mater site - a more controversial decision but she is certainly not courting popularity or avoiding the issue.

See this thread

redfacedbear

The argument that Mary Harney's stewardship of Health has been rejected by the public as a result of the collapse of the PD vote/representation is fallacious in the extreme.

The simple fact is that Fianna Fail also stood for election on the Health policy of the outgoing government - therefore the mandate to continue with her policies actually stands at 44% of the electorate and 82 seats in the new Dail (counting the gene-pool independents).

I'm deeply disappointed that this was the result of the election but such is democracy

Apart from Harney, I think the only outgoing Ministers who have shown anything approaching an acceptable level of competence are Cowen and Hanafin. If FF and PD can do a deal she is the only one for the job.

Snake Plisken

The PD's would have done alot better without that joke McDowell as leader. She has had a so-so tenure as Minister of Health, one the one hand she's been tough with the nurses and consultants and would I'm sure work her way through sorting out hospital middle management and and the rest of the civil servants in their cushy hospital jobs. On the other hand agreeing with setting up the childrens hospital in a totally unsuitable site just because its in Berties backyard and to a certain degree appointing the wrong guy to head up the HSE were bad decisions.

Snake

silvine

What's wrong with Brendan Drumm?

Don't forget several high profile candidates turned down the job.

Evieweavy

The PD's would have done alot better without that joke McDowell as leader.

McDowell was controversial but effective, it looks to me like you can't take a hard line and expect to get re-elected but that is politics he wasn't willing to play the game, I'd hardly call him a joke though.

ateam

It's personal with Harney. No matter what she does, some people will never like her. I'd say she knows that, but even those who dislike her, must give her credit for her determination. Hopefully, she gets health in the new Dail.

RainyDay

DublinWriter wrote:

I've always admired her for the way she took the Taxi Drivers, the second most militant lobby group after the Vintners Federation.

She didn't take on the taxi drivers. The decision to deregulate the taxi industry was taken by the courts, on the grounds that any limit to the number of drivers was anti-competitive. It wasn't a Govt decision, it wasn't a PD decision, and it wasn't a Harney decision.

The Minister involved in implementing the court decision was Bobby Molloy, not Mary Harney