McDowell gone, good or bad? (Vote).

joecoote

Patriot. Bloody hell.

Hoops1888

Cyrus wrote:

a joke? michael mcdowell was one of the most intelligent politicians we have had in years. i am very upset he has gone, irish politics will indeed be diminished.

Now that is a joke right there.

The people have spoken and their still trying to get the bastard in some how, I dont know why in 5 year's there wont even be a PD party anymore. IMO.

Cyrus

whats the joke,

and its they are not their

K-9

joecoote wrote:

Patriot. Bloody hell.

Well, "SF have to give up criminality".

SF - "We don't do criminality".

2 Months later - Northern Bank robbery.

The peace process is now stronger for the likes of McDowell, Paisley and yes McGuinness standing up for what they believe in and of course Bertie for bringing it all together.

Hoops1888 wrote:

The people have spoken and their still trying to get the bastard in some how, I dont know why in 5 year's there wont even be a PD party anymore. IMO.

Those words have been spoken before and boy where they wrong. He's never got re-elected yet in 92 and 02, and maybe 012 he could get re-elected. Look I'm no McDowell apologist, in my view he hasn't delivered largely on his bluster/talent but I hope he and Joe Higgins get in the next time, if for nothing else to have them on the independent benches (if the PD's are gone) giving their independent opinions. The beauty of democracy and PR! Which looking at the current Dail will be lacking.

K-9

nurse_baz wrote:

what you mean by opinons seanies32?

most of the health service workers arre against the plan. which you'd think would be the opposite, seeing as the likes of me could waddle off and work in nice surroundings in the private hospitals. my own main fear is to do with how the government will then treat the public service. i can forsee funding to the public service being cut right back and access to treatment based on need taking a back seat to access based on finances.

Waddle of to targets and accountability in private hospitals? McDowell is still around:D

I take on board your concerns, but Harney and FF did seem to win the Health debates. People just don't believe that 2,300 beds public beds can be delivered under the current system which of course we have debated at length. And the nurses and consultants strikes/work to rules definitely didn't help them convincing people that those 2,300 could be funded as people must have wondered well first we have to get extra money for 37 1/2 ( never mind 35) to keep existing staff never mind additional staff to man those beds.

The 1,000 extra beds by building private hospitals seemed to make sense when argued by Harney etc. People could see the logic, but when did logic apply to the Health system, and thats not just nurses, nurze baz, thats the system.

I hope they fund the extra 1,000 public beds created as well as the other 500 they have promised or else I will even consider voting FG, or even worse SF next time:D

FF have delivered economically and they have tried to reform the Health system. Now is the time to deliver those reforms. Come on Mary, face down the vested interests and deliver real reform.

Collie D

Seanies32 wrote:

FF have delivered economically and they have tried to reform the Health system. Now is the time to deliver those reforms. Come on Mary, face down the vested interests and deliver real reform.

In fairness the only real reform I can see in the Health system in recent years is fobbing the job off on the PDs in the run up to an election. God help us if we had someone like Martin Cullen in charge

Harney's ideas of reform is typical right-wing privatisation. Building private clinics on public hospital grounds and funded by the tax-payer, therefore creating an even worse two-tier health system. I wouldn't begrudge someone with money for paying for private treatment but I don't see why the tax-payer should have to subsidise ythis while leaving the public health system behind.

As for nurses shooting themselves in the foot with their work to rule, I think anyone who has a sick relative in and out of hospital would have nothing but support for their claims.

K-9

Collie D wrote:

In fairness the only real reform I can see in the Health system in recent years is fobbing the job off on the PDs in the run up to an election. God help us if we had someone like Martin Cullen in charge

It wasn't fobbed of, Harney wanted Health and McDowell Justice, though I'm sure FF wheren't screaming no either

CollieD wrote:

Harney's ideas of reform is typical right-wing privatisation. Building private clinics on public hospital grounds and funded by the tax-payer, therefore creating an even worse two-tier health system. I wouldn't begrudge someone with money for paying for private treatment but I don't see why the tax-payer should have to subsidise ythis while leaving the public health system behind.

Well private beds are already funded by the taxpayer for years. The FF/PD proposal is to take them or as many as possible out of the system and replace them with public beds.Whatever else people can say about the private sector it has delivered output in the construction sector.
Same with private patients and consultants being funded publicly.

CollieD wrote:

As for nurses shooting themselves in the foot with their work to rule, I think anyone who has a sick relative in and out of hospital would have nothing but support for their claims.

Agreed, nothing against nurses or indeed consultants. People just seen the bad side of the health/public sector, being knock on pay demands etc. etc. People want a good health system and the current one isn't working. If people are wondering how can FF/PD's finance 1,500 beds well 2,300 beds promised by FG/Lab in the current system is less believable.

partholon

good that he's gone.

he was a travasty as a minister for justice, trying to leglislate himself out of situations that needed man power, and deliberatly set up enquiries that forbade council asking niggling little things like "did you murder that kid in the prison cell". and the whole frand connoly thing was a disgrace.

he ran his campaign on fear and im delighted it blew up in his face.

good riddance.

Elmo

Lets not feel to sorry for poor old MMcD

Before the 1997 election he had 7 years behind him,
This gave him 5 payments of 75% of his annual salary as he left his dail seat the first time*, not only that but Mary Harney let him get his hands on the cushy job called the Attorney General from 1999 - 2002.
Then he was re-elected and he got himself a nice ministers number, around 200,000 per annum.
Now that he has lost his seat a second time he gets
6 payments of his salary at 75% plus an additional 5 payments of 50% of his salary, because 7 + 5 = 12 lets not for get he had 7 years in the dail before he was got rid of the first time. **

Judge McDowell or Senitor McDowell?

*I don't know what the Termination Payment was like back in 1997.
** This does not include his Ministerial Pension

IS ANYONE WORTH THIS?

NO

Cyrus

ha ha ha, he is one of the top legal minds in the country,

the money he has made in government pales compared what he has passed up on :rolleyes:

mickd

AidoCQS wrote:

The PD's are FF's mudflap - that is all.

just the same as Lab being FG's mudflap

Elmo

just the same as Lab being FG's mudflap

And well paid mudflaps at that.

K-9

Elmo wrote:

And well paid mudflaps at that.

Elmo wrote:

Quote:
just the same as Lab being FG's mudflap

And well paid mudflaps at that.

I take it that will be a core Labour Govt. policy if in Govt. Howlin, Rabitte etc. will not be accepting Govt. pensions?

IS ANYONE WORTH THIS?

Elmo

I take it that will be a core Labour Govt. policy if in Govt. Howlin, Rabitte etc. will not be accepting Govt. pensions?

IS ANYONE WORTH THIS?

NO

I never suggested that the Labour Party would be removing Govt. Pensions.

But all of the TD's not just MMcD are being paid for at least 5 years after they leave politics. And it's not just Govt. Pensions that I am talking about.

It just isn't worth it.

Pride Fighter

Good riddance to him, he was Joseph Goebbels in disguise.

RandolphEsq

Joseph Goebbels was a genius when it came to doing his job. His personal views on Jews destroyed him

Sonnenblumen

He had great vision, stamina and forthright intelligent views. The Dail will be a poorer place without him but more worryingly the State be more profoundly weaker for his absence from the legislature.

Setting aside your/his political persuasion, he at least should be acknowledged for his articulate debate and impressive efforts to introduce change in exceptionally demanding portfolios.

I hope he returns.

Elmo

Setting aside your/his political persuasion, he at least should be acknowledged for his articulate debate and impressive efforts to introduce change in exceptionally demanding portfolios.

He only ever had one portfolio.

He believed in Inequalities (he even said it himself).

He total ignored the legislature when it came to Sex Crimes, it wasn't until the **** hit the fan did he actually do anything in this area.

While on the one hand he was supposed to be cleaning up the Gardi, he let a number of Gardi involved in the arrest of Dean Lyons get promotions and he didn't try to reverse the promotions.

Over spending on a new super Jail, which the dept denies even after the Auditor and Comptroller General issues a report stating that they purchased the site far in excess of its actual value.

A super Jail that centralizes Children with Adults in a messed up Criminal System.

He has left Brian Leihan with a huge job to clean up an overly legislated Department.

He had no respect for this country as he has buried it with a huge amount of Legislature that only Barristers will enjoy.

And his supposed intelligence lead to the terrible PD election campaign.

Cyrus

Well he was right inequality is a fact of life and it will always be like that, there will always be the haves and have nots, do you not understand that?

Pride Fighter

Inequality will always be a fact of life as long as right wing parasites steal all the cream and never share.

Cyrus

Yeah i suppose they should subsidise the left wing hippies

Elmo

Well he was right inequality is a fact of life and it will always be like that, there will always be the haves and have nots, do you not understand that?

Yes their will always be inequalities. However we are all equal and allowed to as we please to better ourselves and others around us. It is however huge important to remember that we should help those of us who do not know they have just as many rights as anyone else. Our economy would fall if people did not want to better themselves. Remember money makes the world go around, people make money go around.

Yeah i suppose they should subsidise the left wing hippies

Subsidising companies is important to the Economy, so they and the economy can grow.
Subsidising people is important so that they can grow, companies can grow and the economy can grow.

Well he was right inequality is a fact of life and it will always be like that, there will always be the haves and have nots, do you not understand that?

MMcD was not point out the facts of life, he was stating that inequality was something that had to be there.

johnnyskeleton

Elmo wrote:

He had no respect for this country as he has buried it with a huge amount of Legislature that only Barristers will enjoy.

Not even barristers could enjoy the Criminal Justice Act 2007 (other than it will give them lots of constitutional challenges i.e. more money). Even the gardai, if I recall correctly, slated the legislation because they didn't have the resources to enforce the law as it stood without heaping more regulations and unnecessary powers on them).

Most of what he did seems to me to be a facetous effort to appear tough on crime without actually doing anything productive (such as giving more funding to full time gardai), and many of his rushed legislative provisions are proving to be unworkable or of no real effect.

Cyrus

Elmo wrote:

Yes their will always be inequalities. However we are all equal and allowed to as we please to better ourselves and others around us. It is however huge important to remember that we should help those of us who do not know they have just as many rights as anyone else. Our economy would fall if people did not want to better themselves. Remember money makes the world go around, people make money go around.



Subsidising companies is important to the Economy, so they and the economy can grow.
Subsidising people is important so that they can grow, companies can grow and the economy can grow.



MMcD was not point out the facts of life, he was stating that inequality was something that had to be there.

how does subsidising a person allow them to grow, it just disincentivises them to do anything about their situation?

the pds thinking is common sense, their problem is, is that too many people dont like it. these people turn out to vote for sinn fein and the like, a party with no economic policies.

Attractive Nun

Elmo wrote:

He believed in Inequalities (he even said it himself).

Do people not understand what would happen to our economy and, hence, society if there were no economic inequalities?? Seriously, it would collapse. I can't understand how people keep focusing on that particular quote. It can only be either stupidity or a malicious kind of intellectual dishonesty. Why must we be so ridiculously PC to the point that any statements that even sound controversial are immediately attacked to vigourously that they can't even be explained or debated. It's really quite infuriating...

timmywex

he had the balls to do risky things, lenihan wont, mcdowwell paid for it with his seat but he worked for the betterment of ireland, not just to get reelected

DublinWriter

Attractive Nun wrote:

Do people not understand what would happen to our economy and, hence, society if there were no economic inequalities?? Seriously, it would collapse.

So basically you're saying that we need the poor so we can remain rich?

Meanwhile over in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden...

Cyrus

everyone is rich over there and there is no unemployment? wealth is relative, if the poor arent as poor over there the rich are probably richer than they are here

Elmo

how does subsidising a person allow them to grow, it just disincentivises them to do anything about their situation?

We get subsides for going to school and college. Just in the same way as business can receive grants to set up their businesses.

Cyrus

yeah, people also get subsidies to sit on their ass all day and a free house to do it in.