bike test... how strict is the U turn

agent_smith

Hi Guys,

Ive been riding for a few years and have taken part in the star rider, aon grade 2 assessemtn and rospa bronze. I've successfully completed each.
Ive never had achance to compelte the test however because i travel a lot and work abroad regularly.
I'm due to sit it this week. However, what I would liek to know is how strict examiners are on the U-Turn manoever.
I drive a sportsbike (gsxr... neutered) and the rock its terrible on it. At full lock i would easily need a road of 7.5 meters in width assuming starting from a full lock one side of the road to the other. the problem is when you go full lock , the tank protrudes enough that it makes it impossible not to shut off the throttle. This in itself means that you look pull when you get the lock fully round.
I've practiced around most of the road around the test center. Most are 6 meters to 7 meters wide. Best case scenario I could mount the path. However this solution is not desirable. If i put my foot down to do a 3 point turn is this an instant fail? Or do you have any suggestions ?
How amenable would the examiner be if i show him the lock on the bike and tell him that if he takes me to an inappropriate road that i know my bike and that it will not do a full turn on the road ? I've no problems doing the manoevre. Just on this particularly bike i need more space than my honda hornet which used to turn on a penny.

agent_smith

seamus

agent_smith wrote:

How amenable would the examiner be if i show him the lock on the bike and tell him that if he takes me to an inappropriate road that i know my bike and that it will not do a full turn on the road ? I've no problems doing the manoevre. Just on this particularly bike i need more space than my honda hornet which used to turn on a penny.

I guess that's reasonable, though he may say "tough", as the test is a test to drive any bike, not just your bike.

However by the same token, if he was testing you in a truck cab then it would be downright wrong to ask you to do a U-turn on a small country bohreen, so asking him to bring you to a relatively wide road is a reasonable request.

I wonder can you contact the test centre in advance to ask questions like this?

Idleater

you can put your foot down if you like - and reverse it back like you would in a car - as long you do it safely.

Where are you doing the test?

You should have seen some of the people at the BMW cone driving course day thing last feb who eventually were able to do the end turn on sports bikes.

Go find an empty car park stick down a couple of markers and look where you want to go.

L.

Paparazzo

The ****er in finglas got me to do a u-turn where there was roadworks, had to do it over a load of really bumpy tarmcadam. Prick. Also gave me unclear directions out of the test center and was going mad when i went the wrong way! Needless to say, I failed

agent_smith

well the test is a motorbike. and it is a road legal motorbike. So i dont think an examiner would have a leg to stand on if he came up with a 'this isnt a suitable bike'. its sold , taxed and insured as a road legal bike.
That said, the technique ... mirrors, indicate, mirrors , life saver, move off slowly. Move your body to upright position. Look to where you want to go, and keep the bike pulling (keep it on the throttle , and slip the clutch and feather the rear brake).
I know and can demonstrate all this. The only problem is that when i pull the bars to the tank, the tank has an overhang of sorts so it forces me to cut the throttle which means the bike ceases to pull. My instructor who is IAM, ROSPA and RSA certified tried it on my bike. he himself concluded that it is next to impossible to pull the bars to the headstock and perform a u turn. He suggested notifying the examiner and explaining to him at the beginning of the test when examining the bike.
I am worried about getting tick marks though if i was to perform the u turn as a 3 point turn.. essentially turning hte bike towards the opposing curb (at full lock) then reversing back and then pulling off again in first. This is the most realistic way this manoever can be accomplished on my bike

spurious

When I did my test (admittedly many moons ago), the road I had to do the U-turn on was one of those standard housing estate roads - off Glasnevin Avenue (Ballymun Avenue as it was).
I don't recall it being particularly tight.

agent_smith

well to be honest .... the roads i have practiced on are not particularly tight unless you are driving a superbike, or big tourer.
Im due to sit in the churchtown test center

Paparazzo

It's definitely not an automatic fail for putting your foot down. There's 3 grade faults, 1 is an automatic fail (eg breaking a light, not stopping at a stop sign, knocking someone down, etc), 2 means you can do something smaller (eg road position) something like 8 or 9 times before you fail, and the 3rd grade fault is meaningless. But the grade 2 ones if you're persistantly wrong in an area and make the same mistake 4 times it's a fail.
It's a long time back now, but I definitely remember putting your foot down is a grade 2 or 3. My instructer told me you're better off putting your foot down if you feel you can't make it without doing so.
What is your test center, maybe some people did it there and know the route, and location of the 3 point turn?

Copper

If you're really worried about it you could always rent a bike for the day. I rented a bike off of ISM for €150 for my test and found the U-turn no problem on it. Might be worth it rather than risking failing on the gixxer.

Krusty_Clown

I told my tester that the turning circle on my bike was not small enough to make the full 360 given the road's width. His answer was: Sure I've seen lots of bikes the same as that make that U-turn.. Anyway, my U-turn was in an estate, so I chose a spot where the opposite side of the road had someone's driveway, so I had an extra few feet to play with. Worked out great.. If you havenm't already done so, get a couple of lessons with an instructor. They'll give you valuable advice, and a level of confidence you mighn't otherwise have.

Scuba_Scoper

Agent Smith,I did my test at Churchtown a couple of years ago. The U-turn was the last part of my test and to be honest alot less difficult than I thought it would be.

The tester is just making sure you have control of your bike at slow speeds. I had to 'make a show' of using the entire width of the road coz there was so much space I did my test on a Harley Dyna Glide (not known for either their nimbleness or tiny turning circles )

I am sure each tester has his own spot for this test but if it helps - mine were conducted right at the roundabout as you travel from Nutgrove Shopping Centre to Marley Park direction.

Good luck with the test, just keep checking the mirrors and be decisive in your actions.

agent_smith

I would be reluctant to hire a bike from ISM. The last time I hired a bike from the ISM (about 6 years back when i first learnt to ride) I was given a piece of rubbish which had problems going from first to second.... and consistantly gave false neutrals.
A mate of mine who sat the test recently and failed on an ISM bike had the same problem.
Like I said before... in reality...if the test was realistic it would be a doddle. My instructor said it isn't anywhere near the standard of the ROSPA bronze, silver etc... I've completed AON advanced rider skills assessment to grade 2 and ROSPA bronze. Both of which include a demonstration of slow speed manoevering... figure of 8's among lots of other demonstrations. The thing with those however is that the examiner will adjust the width of the figure of 8 etc... to a realistic turning circle for your bike... i.e. they want to see you do full lock figure of 8's. and will adjust the cones so that to get around them you have to lock from side to side. Thats cool... it just worries me that another of the lads i work with was failed for putting his foot down, reversing back and then driving off in first again because the physical lock of his bike prohibited him performing the U turn in the space available.

@Krusty_Clown : Yup... I plan to tell the instructor (and demonstrate if he will allow) that the bike has a terrrible turning circle. Other than that (this is only one part of the overall test) ... i would prefer to drive my bike because I am used to it.

Dorsanty

agent_smith wrote:

it just worries me that another of the lads i work with was failed for putting his foot down, reversing back and then driving off in first again because the physical lock of his bike prohibited him performing the U turn in the space available.

I hope there were other marks against him in the same category which made the fail happen as a failure to perform a u-turn should at best be one grade 2 fault. And in no way should make a person fail a test. The tester should explain exactly where all the marks against you came from and give you the form. You need something like 3 grade 2 faults for the same item or 6 grade 2's in a category to make an automatic fail.

I've done 2 and passed the second. In the one I passed I put my foot down in the u-turn. Was pissed about that considering I didn't in all my test runs. Tester didn't even mention the u-turn to me when we got back. Also both my u-turns were done on estate roads.

subway

your allowed put yout foot down in the "turnabout" (note its not a u-tunr or a 3 point turn)
its as simple as that, its not a fault of any grade.

if your really concerned, dont start the turn from the kerb,
pull out slightly and then start your turn by banking left then sharply right, you can trun a goldwing if you line it up properly

Del2005

A friend of mine did his test in Churchtown, many years ago, on a ZXR400. The examiner told him it was OK to go onto the footpath if he couldn't make the turn, totally illegal! But he got the test anyhow. Just make sure and point out that the bike has a limited turning circle and unless you get a total b@stard you should be OK.

Owen

I did my test on a Blackbird, the guy wanted me to do a U turn in a road that there was no way the Blackbird could turn in. I said it to him, and he argued it could. So I asked could I prove it to him by hopping off the bike, putting the steering on full lock, and attempting to turn it in the space alloted, and if it did turn, I'd try it riding the bike. He agreed, it made it about 60% of the way through the arc before hitting the opposite pavement, and we selected a better road.

Idleater

I did my test in churchtown too, and the road where you do the u turn turnabout thing (assuming you are doing the 3x clockwise, 3x anticlockwise test) is the estate road along the side of the church.

I still maintain, that you would be surprised how sharply you can turn the bike with lean and slipping the clutch, but if you really want to do it in one, just do a burnout.

However, like subway says, you can put your foot down quite legitimately.

L.

agent_smith

the road i have been taken to by my instructor is at the back of nutgrove shopping center. Where abouts were you taken for your turn about ? There is no church nearby .... or is there?

Idleater

aah yeah, I went that way too, but when I actually did the test the examiner followed in his cage.

The route I took was:
Out of test centre car park -> left to junction with braemor road -> right to Bottle Tower junction -> Right at lights -> right via one way system -> left in the direction of nutgrove -> Right at church (3-400 m up the road) -> right at cross roads -> back to test centre.

did that 3x and he stopped me on the road after turning right after the church.

They take you on the long route if they have the communication system - to tell you where to go which I suppose I would have preferred but anyway.

You won't have a problem with the turnabout - just make the examiner know that you are going to make a best effort to do it in one.

if you don't make it, just safely and quickly wheel the bike back and head off ASAP. You will also have to do the slow walking pace drive too at this point.

L.

Chunkylover

I was trained by David Lyons and he got me thru the test but he said and I did put my foot down, backed her up while looking both ways and went again, didnt get a mark against me for it either, I did the test on a gt650r which has a really bad lock (tbh not sure if its as bad as the gsxr)

sutty

The "U" Turn is not infact a U-turn, but rather a Turn about. It can be done in more than go. But has to be done under control. You can tell the instructer your bike has large turning arc and that you will have to do it in controlled sections.

He can say ok to this, or find you a bigger road.

Here is how to do it in control.

Start the turn about as normal, walking speed and with no lean, turn the steering to a full lock. or as best can. Use the back brake to keep the bike level. When you come to the crub and can not turn any further. Bring the bike to stop with the REAR brake (Making sure to not make contact with the curb) and the front wheel straightened up. Do not use the front brake at all! Then do shoulder checks to make sure your way is clear on both sides of the road. (the side you are on last). Then manoeuvre the bike out a small bid, enough to complete the manoeuvre. Than you are done.

saobh_ie

You can gain an extra foot or so if when you start the manouver you turn your front wheel left towards the nearside kerb and put it as close as you dare to the kerb before turning out.

I did my bike test on a Bandit in Finglas and was able to do a u-turn inside three car parking spaces. I had twice what I needed to get the bike around in one of the estates.

They should be fairly cool though if you tell them you need the extra space because of the geometry of your machine. I'd imagine that while road bikes can turn inside sportsbikes, sportsbikes can still turn inside crusiers.

kowloon

I was allowed a 3 point.
Its down to the examiner, not much you can do about it unless you can borrow something nimble for the day.
Im still useless at low speed maneuvering.

dubtom

I did mine in churchtown too. Failed the first time, I was convinced it was for putting my foot down, maybe not though. Second time I did the test my confindence had improved immensly. He followed me around the block 3 times clockwise and then told me to go anticlockwise and dissapeared,I was convinced he went for his tea. The uturn was at the end of the test and I suppose by then I had demonstrated I could ride a bike safely, which really is what the test is about, at that stage he knows your capabiltys, he already knows if you have failed or passed, just as you will if you have stuck to the rules of the road. I can always tell if a motorcyclist is confident on his machine, I suspect they can too, probably from the first minute or so that he see's you riding, and only a flagrant mistake is going to make you fail (like dropping the bike on a uturn);)

agent_smith

I passed. 2 small green ticks is all the sheet said. Test lasted long enough... almost 45 mins and a good 35 of that was driving.
Anyway I'm glad i did it and got it out of the way but I'm sorry that I didn't bother sitting it and getting it out of the way years ago when i could/should.
Now i have this rediculous ticking clock on the licence. To be honest I dont see myself paying much attention to it. I use and have used full powered bikes while working abroad, have completed ROSPA bronze and part of way through the silver and have been driving bikes for past 7 years.
I find it incredible.. if you have this kind of experience you are treated like the sunday morning only rider.. who buys a bike... uses it the 5 or 6 sunny sunday mornings through the summer and leaves it the rest of the year in a garage (its scary how many people do this!). That person would have used his machine maybe 10 times by the time the ticking clock allows him jump on an r1 or blade. But if you drive daily in all types of conditions for 6 or 7 years ... there is absolutely no allowance. Grrrrr.
About time they brough in direct access scheme over here. They have it in every single country in the EU.

Idleater

well done! congratulations.

How was the u turn?

L.

Green_Martian

Congrats agent_smith
How did you get on with the turnabout???

agent_smith

I got on fine. The road I was taken to was at the back of nutgrove. Before we started the test I told the examiner that the lock was particularly bad and that it had an 8.5 meter turning circle full lock. I told him that unless the road was wider than 8.5 I would likely have to either mount a path (which i said was illegal) or do it in sections. He said 'im glad you know your bike dont worry we are used to sports bikes and will drop the bar on the u turn accordiningly. if needs be do it in sections.'
Ultimately i did it in one. The road is 9 meters wide and i started from full lock to full lock
Other than that.. everythign went fine I still haven't made it down to motor tax office to get the pictures and fill in the form... il do that on tues
Thanks for the advice here guys... much appreciated.

Idleater

apply for the full license ASAP - your 2 year restriction period lasts from when they process the licence form NOT the date when you pass the test.

L.

Hotblack Desiato

agent_smith wrote:

I've completed AON advanced rider skills assessment to grade 2 and ROSPA bronze. Both of which include a demonstration of slow speed manoevering... figure of 8's among lots of other demonstrations.

RoSPA test doesn't include any special slow speed manoeuvres. And afaik they require a full licence.
Also they don't have bronze, silver, gold tests. Just one test and your mark determines your grade.
Star Rider do Bronze, Silver, Gold courses so I think that's what you mean.

Glad to hear you passed. U-turn was my big worry back in the day...

Someone suggested going up on a driveway, that would be instant fail!
Like doing the turnabout or reversing around a corner in the car test, the point is to see if you can demonstrate safety first, control second, the task third. So long as you don't show a lack of control or do anything dangerous then the worst that can happen is a minor fault.

Owen

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a time about 5 years ago IIRC, that RoSPA did indeed have bronze, silver, and gold certificates.

Idleater

ned78 wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a time about 5 years ago IIRC, that RoSPA did indeed have bronze, silver, and gold certificates.

They did and still do.

Like Ninja says, there is 1 exam and you get a Gold/Silver/Bronze certificate on successfully completing the exam.

L.

irishman_abroad

agent_smith I just passed my test bout a month ago.

Tested asked me to turn the bike around in an estate with a narrow enough road and I had to do a 3 point turn.

Was not marked down at all. Once you do it safely and look around a lot youll be fine.

<EDIT>Woops there was another page heh</EDIT>

Krusty_Clown

ninja900 wrote:

Someone suggested going up on a driveway, that would be instant fail!

That was me. My IRTA instructor suggested it to me, I said it to the examiner, and did it in my test and had a clean sheet on returning to the examiners office.
It wasn't someone's driveway though, it was the lower part of the kerb which provides access to someone's driveway. Better to discuss it with the examiner before the test anyway, and go with the controlled turnabout. I would hate to recommend something that might count against you. Just relating my experience, way back when..

smoc

without reading all the other comments i'd say just mention it to the tester before hand (throw in your experience that you have alread ) and see what he says. He should (if hes any way decent) get you to do the turn on a wider road.

I did mine on a tourer and even that was hard. That was by far my biggest worry because if you put your foot down its an instant fail!!