New Zealand -v- France

Steffano2002

Did you guys see the All Blacks team Graham Henry has chosen?

Here it is:

McDonald - Rokocoko, Toeava, Mauger, Sivivatu - Carter, Weepu - McCaw (cap), Masoe, Thorne - Williams, Jack - Hayman, Mealamu, Woodcock

Bench: Hore, Tialata, Flavell, So'oialo, Leonard, Evans, Nonu

We are going to get hammered!!!

I'm thinking 70 - 10 or something like that... Not looking forward to it at all!

burnedfaceman

henry said in his press conference, he wants his team to lay down a marker for the tri nations and WC with this selection i think they are going to do just that and back up their credentials as wc favourite, am predicting a 30point+ victory

Steffano2002

30point+ is being optimistic for France (or pecimistic for NZ...).

I mean, come on, even Magne is playing! It's going to be painful to watch... Might actually give it a miss!

daveirl

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RuggieBear

france by 5:p

Linford

If the bookies offer around NZ -30, like they gave SA -28 at the weekend, it could be another good punting weekend

shoutman

Whens this match on, is it on skysports? Cheers

burnedfaceman

its on ss1 at 9.30ish on sat morn

Steffano2002

burnedfaceman wrote:

its on ss1 at 9.30ish on sat morn

It's actually on at 8:00AM (KO @ 8:35AM) on Saturday morning, Sky Sports 1.

Enjoy the trashing!

daveirl

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Funkstard

Henry was giving out earlier about teams fielding second rate players - what about when he completely changed the side against us last year?

Steffano2002

Funkstard wrote:

Henry was giving out earlier about teams fielding second rate players - what about when he completely changed the side against us last year?

Very true that! He's an idiot anyway...

Isnt Thomas Castagnaide playing as well?

Kerrazy

Steffano2002

Deleted User wrote:

Isnt Thomas Castagnaide playing as well?

Kerrazy

Indeed he is. But I don't think a single man will make a huge difference to this game...

razorblunt

new zealand by 10!

sticking my neck on the line a bit!

zAbbo

France by 5 :eek:

Someone has to beat those arrogant baxtards

Endurance Man

I would probably bet on New Zealand but i would still wonder whether that very odd French attack might catch the zealanders off gaurd, we saw how Ireland got caught off gaurd last year.

Sangre

We also saw how NZ hammered France, twice.

Steffano2002

Sangre wrote:

We also saw how NZ hammered France, twice.

You should have wrote: "We also saw how NZ hammered France's first team, twice."

Imagine what they'll do to that one...

Pinetree Boy

Funkstard wrote:

Henry was giving out earlier about teams fielding second rate players - what about when he completely changed the side against us last year?

Remind me of the score again. Don't know if you would have wanted to face the "first rate" players.

daveirl

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Pinetree Boy

You can't compare the NZ team that played Ireland to the SH teams being sent here.

First test Irelend 10 June 06

Muliaina
Rokocoko
Howlet
Nonu
Mauger
McAllister
Kelleher
So'oialo
McCaw
Rawlinson- replaced by Flavell
Jack
Holah
Hayman
Mealamu
Dermody- replaced by Tialata

Only three players not in this years shadow world cup squad (two of whom were replace by players who are). I am sure the Irish team that day didn't think Henry was doing them any favours.

Funkstard

Pinetree Boy wrote:

You can't compare the NZ team that played Ireland to the SH teams being sent here.

First test Irelend 10 June 06

Muliaina
Rokocoko
Howlet
Nonu
Mauger
McAllister
Kelleher
So'oialo
McCaw
Rawlinson- replaced by Flavell
Jack
Holah
Hayman
Mealamu
Dermody- replaced by Tialata

Only three players not in this years shadow world cup squad (two of whom were replace by players who are). I am sure the Irish team that day didn't think Henry was doing them any favours.

Sorry, should have said Autumn '05. 15 changes to a team after beating Wales? And he berates NH teams for doing the same?

http://www.irishrugby.ie/6855_5058.php

Pinetree Boy

12 Nov 05 ????

McDonald
Howlet
Siviatu
Nonu
Mauger
Evans
Weepu
Tuiali'i
McCaw
Williams
Eaton
Lauaki
Afoa
Mealamu
Woodcock

Four players not in this years squad including Eaton injured. The other 3 are in the junior all blacks. In 2005 NZ sent the best available. The fact was that Henry could field two teams the equal of anything in the NH.

Funkstard

Even still the aim of the managers on this tour remains the same as his; to field players in order to develop them for the world cup. I just find it hard to believe he can publicy speak out against managers for doing what he has done recently. Anyway this is OT, better cut it off

Pinetree Boy

AND the score has everything to do with it. 45-7 against Ireland and 41-3 against Wales hardly suggests that Henry took an understrength squad.

Pinetree Boy

Funkstard wrote:

Even still the aim of the managers on this tour remains the same as his; to field players in order to develop them for the world cup. I just find it hard to believe he can publicy speak out against managers for doing what he has done recently. Anyway this is OT, better cut it off

The French are not developing players. Henry's point was that the IRB are yet again sitting on their hands and allowing clubs to dictate. NH rugby will not develop unless internationals come first.

Linford

Didn't Henry have two different international teams playing at more or less the same time last summer, one against Ireland in NZ and one that travelled to play Argentina?

Steffano2002

Pinetree Boy wrote:

The French are not developing players. Henry's point was that the IRB are yet again sitting on their hands and allowing clubs to dictate. NH rugby will not develop unless internationals come first.

That's pure BS as far as I'm concerned. To me, Club Rugby is far more important and interesting than International Rugby... You talk like Syd Millard...

Pinetree Boy

Perhaps that attitude explains the difference and the gulf between the NH and the SH. Down here we only care about the Super 14 until the tests start- then couldn't give a toss.

daveirl

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Steffano2002

Friday 01st June 2007

Once upon the time the whole rugby world would have been salivating over a meeting between New Zealand and France in Auckland. Today, not even the main protagonists can work themselves into anything vaguely resembling excitement.

"We did not want to come, but we must come," shrugged France coach Bernard Laporte as he flew south, not quite echoing the words of an expectant Caesar.

His counterpart, New Zealand boss Graham Henry, is equally downbeat about the two-Test series.

With domestic issues yet to be settled in France's Top 14 competition, Laporte was forced to travel to the land of the long white cloud without at least 30 of his top players.

In what seems to be the European vogue (see England's recent and forthcoming humiliations in South Africa), players who have propelled their clubs to play-off heights forfeit the chance to represent their country in the mid-year Tests - a seemingly bizarre rewards system that has irked Henry.

"The All Blacks team that went to Europe last November was the best All Blacks team that we could put on the track," he snapped after spying six new caps in the French XV for Saturday's encounter at Eden Park.

"We are holding up our end of the bargain, we are showing a lot of integrity, we are putting the international game first. I think people need to think about that."

Well, let's.

Is putting the international game first really the way forward? Henry obviously thinks so. He withdrew his troops from the first seven rounds of the Super 14, effectively scuppering New Zealand hopes of silverware and damaging viewer and advertising figures.

Just think about that for a moment. Whilst the All Blacks of yore downed pens and shovels and shearing tools in order to pull on a rugby jersey, the current crop of professional Chosen Ones actually forgo rugby for rugby.

Does that benefit the game? Could New Zealand rugby survive on just a handful of Tests per year? Well, the number of All Blacks clutching one-way tickets to the forthcoming Rugby World Cup seems to suggest that such an approach is not economically sustainable.

But one can sympathise with Henry's position, we'd all love to see a first-choice French XV in action in New Zealand.

Yet the heart of European rugby - French rugby, in particular - resides at the local level, and the international game is forced to play second fiddle between Six Nations, Rugby World Cups and Lions tours.

The answer to the problem surely lies somewhere betwixt the Test-centric vision as espoused by Henry and the pound-of-flesh taxation of Europe's top players. Let's just hope the game's punch-drunk administrators will realise that compromise doesn't have to mean capitulation, and soon.

In the meantime, we'd best make do with what has been dished up, and if truth be told, it's not such a meagre-looking dish.

With the risk of falling into the RWC-centric trap (it's so hard not to), the importance of this game is defined by what lies ahead.

Neutral observers are relishing the prospect of seeing these two nations play out the last act of the 2007 Rugby World Cup, a game that has already been billed 'the dream final'. Favourites versus hosts, south versus north, brooding perfectionists versus Champagne Charlies - it has it all.

And so to Saturday. Can the tourists put a dent in New Zealand's well-laid plans, or will the All Blacks extinguish France's global pretensions before a single fan has set foot in Paris? The smart money is on the latter.

Despite Henry's claims that the mid-year series is all about "rebuilding the foundations", the precise man-management and re-conditioning of the All Blacks mean that they will come out of the blocks as almost the finished article.

These All Blacks aren't just hunting for the 18-inch pot that has eluded them for twenty years, they are after the tag of 'best ever' and they will not kick off their season of destiny in second gear.

Given what is expected, nay, demanded of Richie McCaw's team, seeing them train is privilege enough. On Saturday we shall see them in full Test mode, so why all the long faces?

And let us not forget, France are the only side to have ever beaten New Zealand at Eden Park in over twenty years - that fine 23-20 victory in 1994, sealed, in typically outrageous behaviour, by Philippe Saint-Andre's last-gasp 'try from the end of earth'.

The French revel in their glorious unpredictability, and they love nothing better than being the underdogs. Indeed, the weight of expectation normally stifles their natural ability.

The good news is that musketeering spirit is still alive and well. It is almost comforting that Laporte was forced to admonish the Laharrague brothers for skipping a 'video analysis session'. What needs TacticZone© when you can sniff the opponents' tryline from behind your own posts?

Yet without the ballast supplied by the men from Stade Français, Biarritz, Clermont and Toulouse, the tourists' ship is sure to go down with all hands on deck.

Laporte will undoubtedly learn more about some of his lesser lights than Henry will garner from his tried and tested battalion, but that new knowledge is unlikely to encompass anything more than defensive aptitudes.

New Zealand have had the best side in the world for a long time; now they have the fanciest tackle-bags.

Players to watch:

For New Zealand: New Zealand have struggled to fill the void left by Tana Umaga at outside centre, but their search for a replacement is now at an end. Enter Isaia Toeava, for many the outstanding performer of the 2007 Super 14. Strong, intelligent, dextrous, athletic, dynamic, explosive - the Blues centre has it all, he's a super-sized Brian O'Driscoll. And he's just 21. Gulp.

For France: If there's one man who encapsulates the mercurial nature of French rugby it is Thomas Castaignède. The veteran playmaker has two settings - artist or ordinary. Castaignède was very ordinary in his last appearance - Gloucester's hammering of Saracens, a game he described as the lowest point of his career - and he'll need to find the magic if he wishes to exorcise those memories and inspire the neophytes around him.

Head-to-head: Chris Masoe (New Zealand) v Sébastien Chabal (France): Two players who pride themselves on their physical game; two players who have been given the chance to stake their claim. Divert your eyes - it will be violent.

Recent results:

2006: New Zealand won 23-11 at Stade de France, Paris
2006: New Zealand won 47-3 in Lyon
2004: New Zealand won 45-6 at Stade de France, Paris
2003: New Zealand won 40-13 at Stadium Australia, Sydney (RWC)
2003: New Zealand won at Jade Stadium, Christchurch
2002: Match drawn 20-20 Stade de France, Paris
2001: New Zealand won 37-12 Westpac Trust, Wellington
2000: France won 42-33 in Marseille
2000: New Zealand won at Stade de France, Paris
1999: France won 43-31 at Twickenham, London (RWC)
1999: New Zealand won at Athletic Park, Wellington
1995: New Zealand won at Parc des Princes, Paris

The teams:

New Zealand: 15 Leon MacDonald, 14 Joe Rokocoko, 13 Isaia Toeava, 12 Aaron Mauger, 11 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Piri Weepu, 8 Chris Masoe, 7 Richie McCaw (captain), 6 Reuben Thorne, 5 Ali Williams, 4 Chris Jack, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock.
Replacements: 16 Andrew Hore, 17 Neemia Tialata, 18 Troy Flavell, 19 Rodney So'oialo, 20 Brendon Leonard, 21 Nick Evans, 22 Ma'a Nonu.

France: 15 Thomas Castaignède, 14 Jean-Francois Coux, 13 Arnaud Mignardi, 12 Jean-Philippe Grandclaude, 11 Benjamin Thiéry, 10 Benjamin Boyet, 9 Nicolas Durand, 8 Sébastien Chabal, 7 Olivier Magne, 6 Gregory Le Corvec, 5 Pascal Papé (captain), 4 Julien Pierre, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Sebastian Bruno, 1 Christian Califano.
Replacements: 16 Raphaël Ibañez, 17 Franck Montanella, 18 Olivier Olibeau, 19 Damien Chouly, 20 Mickael Forest, 21 Nicolas Laharrague, 22 Ludovic Valbon

Date: Saturday, 2 June
Venue: Eden Park, Auckland
Kick-off: 19:35 (07.35 GMT)
Conditions: Clear spells with heavy showers, strong north-westerly winds - max 16°C, min 8°C
Referee: Stuart Dickinson (Australia)
Touch judges: Matt Goddard (Australia), James Leckie (Australia)
Television match official: George Ayoub (Australia)

EdgarAllenPoo

What a bloody woeful game both in terms of the play and referees. The ref touch judge(can't remember which one) and the tmo were just horrendous.

RuggieBear

yeah. pretty awful game. Dickerson was just BAD. The touch judges were even worse. How bad is reffing in Australia if that is an international crew!?:eek:

France tackled well but NZ had so much ball that it was really just counting down the minutes till NZ would run up the big score.

shoutman

Both teams looked very rusty, unforced handling errors were poor. I thought in the first half the the NZ back row did very well with ball in hand in open play but besides that some good defence from the french kept NZ largely at bay. But I dread to think what the score could of been if NZ were more clinical and i'm sure it will come with match practice.
Whats everyones opinion on the first NZ try? I thought it was no try as there was no real downward pressure he more just rolled the ball on. France got unlucky with many reffing decisions.
And ooooh what a hit by Chabel....

Worrytahs

Funkstard wrote:

Henry was giving out earlier about teams fielding second rate players - what about when he completely changed the side against us last year?

As I said elsewhere, I trust he was equally angry at the lack of All Blacks playing in the Super 14s this year

Worrytahs

RuggieBear wrote:

yeah. pretty awful game. Dickerson was just BAD. The touch judges were even worse. How bad is reffing in Australia if that is an international crew!?:eek:

France tackled well but NZ had so much ball that it was really just counting down the minutes till NZ would run up the big score.

Well, if TMOs are going to give tries where a Mr Leota can score with his right t*t, then any old numpty at the screen would give Sivivatu's 'try' :mad:

Steffano2002

How do I feel after watching this game? @$$ r@ped is how I feel!

What kind of referee do they have in Australia? I'm so angry at this "dick-headson" bollix I could actually see myself punching the head of him... J4 referees are more competent! So frustrating! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm proud of the lads though. Defended well, got a try and we got to see a superb hit by (my hero) Chabal. We deserved to lose. But not by more than 10~15 points...

Dickinson I hate you!!! :mad:

daveirl

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shoutman

No dave they didnt, however they did give a try for a blatent forward pass.. how he missed that I dont know, and another try for a dubious grounding of the ball.

nacho libre

Steffano2002 wrote:

That's pure BS as far as I'm concerned. To me, Club Rugby is far more important and interesting than International Rugby... You talk like Syd Millard...

you are only saying that because France are crap:p

Worrytahs

Pinetree Boy wrote:

Perhaps that attitude explains the difference and the gulf between the NH and the SH. Down here we only care about the Super 14 until the tests start- then couldn't give a toss.

Across the dutch, no-one gives a stuff about the Super 14s eh?
I would disagree. Watch any game involving a Noo Zulland side against a non-Noo Zulland side, with a Kiwi and you'd witness quite the opposite

cgf

If I was a French supporter I wouldn't be too worried about today's result. Ye had a 'B' team against the All Black No. 1 team and the score was flattered by 3 dodgy tries.

The reffing was shocking :eek: and when ye get those home-town decisions going your way in October, who knows.....

Steffano2002

cgf wrote:

If I was a French supporter I wouldn't be too worried about today's result. Ye had a 'B' team against the All Black No. 1 team and the score was flattered by 3 dodgy tries.

It was actually more like a 'C' or 'D' team we lined up. It was nice to see players I've never even heard of before play against the All Blacks! I think we're going to get absolutely hammered in the second test though...

cgf wrote:

The reffing was shocking :eek: and when ye get those home-town decisions going your way in October, who knows.....

God I hope you're right!

Oh and, if you want to see the highlight of this match, here you have it!

My hero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrbp1ASVhCg

Pinetree Boy

The score flattered the ABs. They looked rusty and the midfield is still a problem. The French defence was great and they got hammered by piss poor rulings.For a make shift third string combo the French were bloody good.

One of the real worrying things for the WRC was the standard of referees. It has been obvious in the Super 14 how bad some of them are.

Steffano2002

Pinetree Boy wrote:

The score flattered the ABs. They looked rusty and the midfield is still a problem. The French defence was great and they got hammered by piss poor rulings.For a make shift third string combo the French were bloody good.

Good analysis! Fully agree with you!

Pinetree Boy wrote:

One of the real worrying things for the WRC was the standard of referees. It has been obvious in the Super 14 how bad some of them are.

I'm afraid I also have the same fears... The majority of these SH referees really are piss poor... I mean, if Stuart Dickinson was to referee France -v- Argentina for example, I believe it would literally be the end for us... Simple as that!

RuggieBear

Steffano2002 wrote:

Good analysis! Fully agree with you!

I'm afraid I also have the same fears... The majority of these SH referees really are piss poor... I mean, if Stuart Dickinson was to referee France -v- Argentina for example, I believe it would literally be the end for us... Simple as that!

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/NR/rdonlyres/38A44E64-1CCC-424F-961B-E512C67DBCA0/0/070424CCAppendixERWC07APPOINTMENTSxls.pdf

here are the pool refs...dickerson is as touch judge. spreaders is reffing

Steffano2002

RuggieBear wrote:

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/NR/rdonlyres/38A44E64-1CCC-424F-961B-E512C67DBCA0/0/070424CCAppendixERWC07APPOINTMENTSxls.pdf

here are the pool refs...dickerson is as touch judge. spreaders is reffing

Well that's just great...

Pinetree Boy

Steffano2002 wrote:

Well that's just great...

Dickenson and Lawrence on the sidelines!! You can expect about 12 minutes of actual rugby.

Steffano2002

Pinetree Boy wrote:

Dickenson and Lawrence on the sidelines!! You can expect about 12 minutes of actual rugby.

If we're lucky!

Pinetree Boy

A war of words down here. Henry accusing the French of slowing the game down and Laporte hitting back. Much as it pains me I think Laporte is right. Henry is being a dork. Does he really think that we believe the ABs never deliberately slow a game down? Any prop who can't fake an injury when his team are about to have a defensive scrum on their goal line doesn't deserve to be there.

Got tolove Laporte- best call- Henry wasn't quite so loud when he was coaching Wales.