Slayer & Metallica - 1988

Doctor J

Get this into you

I have these on video from when they were shown on the BBC back in 89, was going to put them on DVD but I see someone has put them up already.

Slayer touring South Of Heaven


Metallica touring And Justice For All - from early in the tour, a lot less polished than the gig on Binge & Purge and all the better for it

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcNRR7l_S4s

Now that's the good stuff right there

faceman

Great links! hadnt seen them before

Necronomicon

All these retro threads doc, are you really yearning that much for the old days again

Doctor J

Yes, yes I am

faceman

^ dont blame him. those were the days!

Doctor J

Indeed, when I think of Metallica ^^^that^^^ is what I think of, not the bloated parody of the last 10 years. I think it's just amazing footage, really raw and fresh, it's not as choreographed as they became later in that tour and then into the streamlined stadium act they eventually became. It's a damn shame they never released it properly.

Compare that to the "tallica loves yoooooo, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan" garbage from Crigeworthy Stunts and you'll get where I'm coming from.

faceman

now now doc, stunning cnuts was a great tour. You're never goin to get the raw intensity of the pre black album tours but they're middle aged men now with families. they have mellowed unfortunately. Thats what happens when metal/rock stars fall in love. the bitterness and angst goes.

They still can put on a top notch live show

Doctor J

Nah, Cunning Stunts almost made me cry. I got it for a tenner and still feel ripped off. I can't say enough bad things about it to be honest. Their recent music does nothing for me. All bands have to change, all good bands anyway, but I just don't like what they did, nothing to do with rage or anger, their change in direction left me behind whereas I thought the likes of Anthrax evolved and improved to my ears. Change is good, Cunning Stunts is bad

I can see we're just gonna disagree all day about this, which is fine, but distracts from the idea of the thread which is simply just enjoy some cool footage

Ph3n0m

hah the head on Ulrich!

But yeah Cunning Stunts was bad - much prefer Cliff Em All

Dr. Seuss

Doctor J wrote:

a lot less polished than the gig on Binge & Purge and all the better for it

Are you deaf? Binge & purge sounds much better! You can't even hear the bass or the bass drum in your clip, and the guitars are fluffing notes all over the place! Not to mention the empty sound & lack of substance in the background during the "duelling" guitars. Very sloppy version. There's a difference between "raw" and "sloppy" - this is the latter. GNR at the Ritz captures "raw" energy perfectly, as does the Seattle Binge & Purge gig.

SouperComputer

checkout this profile: http://youtube.com/profile?user=UTF

Lots of Master of Puppets and Justice demos, some Megadeth stuff too.

Doctor J

Dr. Seuss wrote:

Are you deaf? Binge & purge sounds much better! You can't even hear the bass or the bass drum in your clip, and the guitars are fluffing notes all over the place! Not to mention the empty sound & lack of substance in the background during the "duelling" guitars. Very sloppy version. There's a difference between "raw" and "sloppy" - this is the latter. GNR at the Ritz captures "raw" energy perfectly, as does the Seattle Binge & Purge gig.

I assure I am not deaf but thanks for your concern for my health, I am touched. Clearly I pointed out the difference to it and Binge & Purge already, you do not need to repeat to me something I have already highlighted. There is more, much more, to good music than not fluffing notes and pristine sound. If you don't like it, fine, to me it is a superior performance to binge and purge, despite it's less polished audio

Doctor J

No comments on the Slayer footage? The ending of Manditory Suicide gets me every time, it's wonderful stuff.

Mental Mickey

I for one think that Slayer haven't evolved one bit. Their last decent album(in my opinion)was "Divine Intervention" and that was 13 years ago!!!!

So what(no pun intended)if Metallica don't play the same music that they did 15-20 years ago!!!!???

I still like Metallica because they had the sheer b***s to branch outside the thrash metal tag, and try different things. They may not have pulled it off every time, but at least they tried different things.

And, in reply to a previous poster, yes they are a f**kin awesome live band, as demonstrated at the RDS last summer.

Maaaaaaaaaaaan, what a gig that was.

Ph3n0m

Mental Mickey wrote:

So what(no pun intended)if Metallica don't play the same music that they did 15-20 years ago!!!!???

And, in reply to a previous poster, yes they are a f**kin awesome live band, as demonstrated at the RDS last summer.

Maaaaaaaaaaaan, what a gig that was.

Ah yes the gig where they played the entire Master of Puppets album - the album that most fans acknowledge as the finest Metallica album ever

Somnus

I thought some of the guitar in those old video's sounded a bit sloppy.They're still good video's though,the slayer one also. Metallica mightnt have had a great album in a while but they're still deadly live

Dr. Seuss

Dr.Poca wrote:

I thought some of the guitar in those old video's sounded a bit sloppy.

That's what I said. But "sloppy" is good, apparently.

neGev

Firstly, it's his opinion, so arguing with it is pointless.
Secondly, I'd rather see a flawed performance where the band is showing emotion and energy than a note-perfect one with zero stage presence.

I'm just watching that Slayer footage now. Who's that one presenting the show at the start?

This is your brain. This is a blender. And this is your brain in a blender.

Classic!

Ph3n0m

neGev wrote:

Firstly, it's his opinion, so arguing with it is pointless.
Secondly, I'd rather see a flawed performance where the band is showing emotion and energy than a note-perfect one with zero stage presence.

I'm just watching that Slayer footage now. Who's that one presenting the show at the start?

Classic!

That would be Elvira, Mistress of the Night

Dr. Seuss

neGev wrote:

Firstly, it's his opinion, so arguing with it is pointless.
Secondly, I'd rather see a flawed performance where the band is showing emotion and energy than a note-perfect one with zero stage presence.

So would I - but he's comparing it to the Binge & Purge gig, which is the best Metallica gig ever taped!

neGev

Yeah, she displayed her presentation skills well in that clip anyway...

I need : pac : for these sort of occasions

Doctor J

Dr. Seuss wrote:

So would I - but he's comparing it to the Binge & Purge gig, which is the best Metallica gig ever taped!

He's comparing it to a performance given after over a year on the road, touring the same songs to a performance given shortly after AJFA came out, they had been on the road maybe three months, the songs and the band were fresh. Where you might see honed efficiency and less mistakes, I see a band getting tired of the songs, tired of the road and slipping into well worn banter and stage moves, almost to the stage of going through the motions. To me, good and all as Binge & Purge is (don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it at all, I like it a lot), it lacks the energy and enthusiasm in the performance which is blatant in the Hammersmith footage. The band in Seattle is closer to black-album-era Metallica stadium gigging machine in actions and words, a lot more so than the Hammersmith footage, where they were still a pretty small band, playing 2-3000 capactity venues at most and there was a bit more of a personal interaction with the audience. I saw them the week before the Hammersmith gig and when I first saw the Seattle gig it was like an entirely different band, a very different performance to what I knew. They weren't a big band at that point, they were still fairly underground for want of a better term. By the end of 89 they were getting fed up playing the AJFA songs, looking to change and it shows, to me at least. In my opinion, the extra zeal and aggression in the Hammersmith performance more than makes up for the mistakes and rough sound. You disagree. It's no big deal.

Put simply, there's just a bit of fire in the Hammersmith footage which, to me at least, seems lacking in the Seattle footage and that's what gives the Hammersmith footage the edge, it's just a special bit of video.

Dyr

So who remembers mitch hale and penny rushtin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdRLUyYItis

q: is it better when its faster?

a: I do

metal legend

Dr. Seuss

Doctor J wrote:

I see a band getting tired of the songs, tired of the road and slipping into well worn banter and stage moves, almost to the stage of going through the motions.

You must be watching a different video, mate. The Seattle gig is tight, full of energy, and kickin'!
That one you posted is sloppy with poor sound. No amount of "eagerness" in the musicians can make up for fluffed notes - it's suppossed to be a concert, not a practice session.

J: "Hey Kirk, you messed up that guitar solo! Sloppy as hell, dude - wtf?"
K:" Yeah, but I was smiling and looked like I was really enjoying myself! Surely that's more important than the music?"
J: "Good point! No worries, man."

But that's just my opinion.

Doctor J

Dr. Seuss wrote:

You must be watching a different video, mate. The Seattle gig is tight, full of energy, and kickin'!
That one you posted is sloppy with poor sound. No amount of "eagerness" in the musicians can make up for fluffed notes - it's suppossed to be a concert, not a practice session.

Oh so I'm blind too now?

I know it's sloppy with poor sound, I said as much in the first post, there's no need to keep repeating the same point which I made in the first place

It wasn't me!

I'll take a performance with balls over a soulless note-perfect one anyday.

faceman

Can we not just enjoy the music?

It wasn't me!

This is actually a good discussion though. Should a band sacrifice their energy, passion, and enthusiasm for by-the-numbers accuracy? And obviously there's a balance to be struck, no one wants to see people just make chaotic noise, except maybe John, and only when he's expecting it, but should it lean towards the accuracy, or the passion, if it's to fall one way or the other?

neGev

Needs posting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl9zP1kj5Dw

Dr. Seuss

It wasn't me! wrote:

This is actually a good discussion though. Should a band sacrifice their energy, passion, and enthusiasm for by-the-numbers accuracy? And obviously there's a balance to be struck, no one wants to see people just make chaotic noise, except maybe John, and only when he's expecting it, but should it lean towards the accuracy, or the passion, if it's to fall one way or the other?

You're missing my point though - the Seattle gig I'm referring to DOESN'T sacrifice anything! It's still got amazing energy, but is also tight!

faceman

faceman wrote:

They still can put on a top notch live show

Amen to that!!