MMA/UFC/PRIDE/K-1 discussion thread

Fozzy

Haha, it's just a feeling I have! Tyson's last fight was bad by the standards of his previous few fights and I think that he'll be coming out with something to prove

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

A silly call IMO, Aurelio is a ground whizz. I think Aurelio will win by sub or UD.

Well i dont want to belittle anyones picks, imagine suggesting Gonzaga by KO?

Or the fact that Kevin Burns (a blue belt) subbed Roan carneiro (a BB) at the last UFC.

But for me NOBODY at 155 is subbing Aurelio.

Pride Fighter

Deleted User wrote: »

Well i dont want to belittle anyones picks, imagine suggesting Gonzaga by KO?

Or the fact that Kevin Burns (a blue belt) subbed Roan carneiro (a BB) at the last UFC.

But for me NOBODY at 155 is subbing Aurelio.

Except Aoki and Penn:)

Fozzy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Except Aoki and Penn:)

And possibly Shaolin Ribeiro if he ever gets back fighting! Any idea what he's up to?

Oh and Tyson Griffin too :pac:

True but i could see those even going to a dec. Aurelio is a wizard.

Fozzy

I know Aurelio's more likely to win it, I'm surprised that he's viewed as such an underdog by the bookies. But I've got to stick with the feeling that I have!

I just read this article now about a fan who sued Matt Hughes after Matt choked him too hard for a photo: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/ufc/article1366564.ece The guy was a policeman and Matt settled out of court. Then the guy got sentenced to 20 years jail time for separate fraud and firearms charges. Funny how these things work. The photo is in the article

EDIT: And now I'm after readin about how Phil Baroni choked a radio presenter and didn't let go when the guy tapped. The guy had to get lasik surgery to fix his eyesight after it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvqAiW9RbVs

dunkamania

A revised edition of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts was passed Thursday by the Association of Boxing Commissions via a majority vote at the ABC's annual conference.

The amended document -- drafted by the ABC's MMA Chairman Dale Kliparchuk, New Jersey State Athletic Control Board Deputy Attorney Nick Lembo, ABC President Timothy Leuckenhoff and veteran referee "Big" John McCarthy -- primarily provided clarifications to the already existing Unified Rules instituted in April 2001 that serve as a regulatory beacon for the sport throughout North America.

...


Forty regulatory bodies were in attendance for the annual event. The California State Athletic Commission and the Nevada State Athletic Commission, both known for regulating a large amount of MMA events in their states, did not attend.

Notable rules changes include:

The back of the head is clearly defined as the "Mohawk" definition -- "crown of the head down the centerline of the skull into the spine, with a one-inch variance to each side."
Downward elbow strikes are now legal unless aimed at protected areas.
Smothering the mouth or nose of an opponent is now a foul.
Weight classes are changed as well:
Fourteen weight classes are now defined in the men's division under the Unified Rules, beginning at the 105-pound flyweight division and moving up in 10-pound increments to super heavyweight at 265 pounds and over. In particular, the welterweight division will now range from 165-175 pounds, while light heavyweight fighters will be specified between 205-225 pounds. Heavyweight entrants will be asked to weigh in between 225-265 pounds.



About time, the confusion over the back of the head rule was ridiculous.
Also, a little confused about the weights, what does this mean for the UFC categories?

Charlie3dan

Yeah glad to see the back of the head rule clarified and interested to see what the weight changes will mean for the divisions.

Not so happy about not being able to smother on the ground. I always thought that at least if there was a boring gaurd situation on the ground it meant the guy being smothered would have to really try to get free rather than weather the storm.
Most recently anderson silva used this technique nicely against dan henderson.

Hmmmm light heavy at 205 would see guys like Arlovski, possibly Nog and possibly even Fedor fighting in that division. Would the likes of the UFC, Strikeforce, the WEC etc have to implement that by law then?!

Fall_Guy

Heres my picks for saturday, should be a good night of fights.

Quinton “Rampage” Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin - Rampage by tko

Patrick Cote vs. Ricardo Almeida - Almeida by sub

Joe Stevenson vs. Gleison Tibau - Joe by sub

Josh Koscheck vs. Chris Lytle - Koscheck by desicion, a la matt hughes/lytle

Tyson Griffin vs. Marcus Aurelio - Aurelio by sub

Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Justin McCully - Gonzaga via TKO/sub

Cole Miller vs. Jorge Gurgel - Gurgel hasn't impressed me yet, i'm gonna go with miller by decision

Melvin Guillard vs. Dennis Siver - Guillard by decision

Corey Hill vs. Justin Buchholz - -out of ignorance have to go with hill.

Dragan

Quinton “Rampage” Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin
I'm going with the underdog and calling Griffin for this. I think Jackson is expecting Griffin to want it on the ground. I think Griffin REALLY wants it in the clinch.

Patrick Cote vs. Ricardo Almeida
Almeida with an early sub.

Joe Stevenson vs. Gleison Tibau
Stevenson GNP win.

Josh Koscheck vs. Chris Lytle
Kos with a GNP win, late.

Tyson Griffin vs. Marcus Aurelio
Marcus by RNC from the scramble.

Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Justin McCully
Gonzaga sub.

Cole Miller vs. Jorge Gurgel
Gurgel - this is the first fight where he had a camp just for himself. I think it will pay off for him.

Melvin Guillard vs. Dennis Siver
Siver by Sub

Corey Hill vs. Justin Buchholz
Hill. I think his range will be a problem for some of the LW's.

Fozzy

I don't think that the UFC has to go by those weight divisions. EXC has a 160lb lightweight title for example. If they do go by it then they'll probably just change the name of the lightheavyweight division to the super-middleweight division and leave the lightheavyweight division out. Here's the full weight classes:

flyweight (up to 105 lbs)
super flyweight (over 105.1 to 115 lbs)
bantamweight (over 115.1 to 125 lbs)
super bantamweight (over 125.1 to 135 lbs)
featherweight (over 135.1 to 145 lbs)
lightweight (over 145.1 to 155 lbs)
super lightweight (over 155.1 to 165 lbs)
welterweight (over 165.1 to 175 lbs)
super welterweight (over 175.1 to 185 lbs)
middleweight (over 185.1 to 195 lbs)
super middleweight (over 195.1 to 205 lbs)
light heavyweight (over 205.1 to 225 lbs)
heavyweight (over 225.1 to 265 lbs)
super heavyweight (over 265.1 lbs)

So if the UFC has to go by them then I'd say that they'll simply leave out the new lightweight, middleweight and super-lightweight divisions and shift their welterweight division up by 5lbs

I'm not really sure why they felt the need for the change. Also, the commissions don't have to use these new rules if they don't want to

Mark Hamill

dunkamania wrote: »

Smothering the mouth or nose of an opponent is now a foul.

Any idea why this has been made a foul?

dunkamania

Not sure bout this one, could lead to fingers in mouth nose eyes etc I suppose

Fozzy

I'm a little unsure of the "back of the head" definition. I always understood that the rule was to protect the part of your head that's soft and much more vulnerable to being affected by strikes. But going by my head, that "one inch to either side of the centre" doesn't cover all of the soft part. The area near the back of my ears isn't covered. Maybe I've just got a strange head! But god help guys with big heads like Tito. The rule will only cover a fraction of his head :pac:

I was reading a couple of other forums, these new weight classes have really confused some people! They're of the impression that because the weight class called "lightheavyweight" now has a 225lb limit that Liddell, Rampage, Forrest, etc. will all have to put on 20lbs to stay competitive in that division. When really they can just stay the same weight and fight in the super-middleweight division that has the 205lb limit

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

I'm a little unsure of the "back of the head" definition. I always understood that the rule was to protect the part of your head that's soft and much more vulnerable to being affected by strikes. But going by my head, that "one inch to either side of the centre" doesn't cover all of the soft part. The area near the back of my ears isn't covered. Maybe I've just got a strange head! But god help guys with big heads like Tito. The rule will only cover a fraction of his head :pac:

Read an interview with herb dean recently where he said its basically like if a guys waearing headphones over his ears, the part behind there is considered the "back of the head"

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Read an interview with herb dean recently where he said its basically like if a guys waearing headphones over his ears, the part behind there is considered the "back of the head"

That covers too much though, you've still got hard bone at the top of the back of your head. But everything else that covers is what I thought was the bad place to hit. Now it's just a two inch strip that's protected

cletus

at least this gets rid of the "no downwards elbow strike" rule. I can see UFC implementing all but the weight class rules (and possibly the smother rule??)

not sure why the felt the need to change the weight classes. considering most casual fans will be more aware of the names of the weight classes as opposed to the actual weight of the weight classes.

edit, just came across this interview with CB "The Lip" Dolloway - enjoy

Source: http://www.topgunmma.com/viewArticle...rticleID=10499


I got a chance to interview CB recently. I'm starting to make a habit of pasting these over here for some MMA discussion.



I really was interested in his answers about the confessonials adn editing and CB had some good answers. I'll be interviewing matt riddle and I may be interviewing Amir so hopefully I can dig some more.




Franz: So, how's it going right now?

CB Dollaway: Pretty good. Just trying to recover from Vegas.

Franz: Taking some time off?

CB Dollaway: Yea, just a few days. Then Saturday I'm going to get back to training.

Franz: Are you training down there from anybody from the show? Did anybody come down there with you?

CB Dollaway: Yea, actually, Matt Riddle moved down here and trained here for his last fight and everything and Gerald Harris is actually, he just moved to Arizona and he's going to start training with me over here at Arizona Combat Sports.

Franz: Yeah, Riddle looked, he looked really good on the Finale. He looked almost like a different fighter.

CB Dollaway: Yea, he improved a lot. I think it's been to his benefit to come down here and train with us.

Franz: So do you think that your time on the Ultimate Fighter helped expand your game at all?

CB Dollaway: Yea, I think it helped getting the experience of having all those fights. It's hard to get a lot of fights like that in such a short period of time. Yeah, I definitely think that was a great experience for me.

Franz: It's almost like a little wrestling tournament.

CB Dollaway: Yeah, kinda like a wrestling tournament except lucky to not get injured or anything like that throughout the show. Got to get all those fights in.

Franz: Going to that Finale fight against Amir, that whole tapping controversy, was that just cause he had your arm separated and it was just a natural movement for you, you threw that one tap in and maybe you figured you had gotten your arm out, you didn't commit to the tap. What was that?

CB Dollaway: At first, the first tap, right as I did that I got my arm out. To like the point where I could get it out. It's kinda like a natural reaction. I was just mad at myself and just kinda mad at the whole situation. I didn't want to see it end like that. Nothing I could do about it.

Franz: That's gotta be frustrating. You train for weeks and then you just get caught in a sub early without taking much damage.

CB Dollaway: Without even getting into a fight. Don't even feel like I got to fight. Put in a lot of hard work for the fight and for it to end like that, it just really sucked. Frustrating more than anything.

Franz: Do you feel throughout that season you were accurately portrayed by the editors?

CB Dollaway: Not really. They portrayed me as a really cocky, kinda arrogant person. I'm definitely confident when I talk about my fights. Definitely a confident person but as far like cocky and arrogant, anybody who knows me knows that I'm not like that but I did understand what I was getting into when I signed up for the show. Right in the contract it says that they have the right to portray you in any light that they want to and it's just a risk you take. Either way I think it was great publicity and a great way to get my name out there.

Franz: Do they ask you questions during your confessional time because it seems like sometimes those answers are just coming out of left field and just edited in.

CB Dollaway: They definitely ask you a lot of questions and almost lead you into where they want you to, kinda how they want you to answer it. They'll ask you the same question ten different ways to get the answers that they want so they can set you up almost. Put you in that light of the character they want you to portray.

Franz: Besides Matt Riddle, did you have any other good friends, or anybody that you still keep in contact with from the show?

CB Dollaway: I keep in contact. Pat Schultz, who's one of my roommates there, we stayed right across from each other in a room that we shared. Got to know him pretty good, he's one of the other guys and then pretty much all the Team Rampage guys except for Jeremy May. If I see him I'll definitely talk to him.

Franz: Was Jeremy May really that bad? Was that the editing monster?

CB Dollaway: No, Jeremy May was that bad. He's just one of those people I just couldn't really stand to be around but I didn't want to get into any kind of controversies with him or anything. After you saw what he tried to do to JT to get him kicked off the show, anyone who would do something like that, just shows what kind of character they have.

Franz: Definitely, you could see that he was obviously pushing buttons for the result of trying to get someone kicked off the show.

CB Dollaway: Yea, really, it's pretty stupid if you ask me. Total disrespect for a person, trying to ruin their dream.

Franz: It's only the biggest thing that's ever happened to them, right?

CB Dollaway: You have to be pretty much a complete asshole to try and do something like that to someone.

Franz: Have you heard from Zuffa recently, have you heard of any new opponents coming up?

CB Dollaway: Ya, I have something coming up, just can't release it yet. Who it is and when, but they'll be releasing it soon.

Franz: Besides this TBA, is there anyone in particular that you'd like to fight?

CB Dollaway: Not really. Just hopefully after this next fight I'd like to have a little time to work on some of my areas that need to be worked on. I know I need some time to get some things figured out and would like to get that done before I start calling anyone out.

Franz: Have you been training and working on your sub defense and submission grappling, things like that ever since the Amir losses?

CB Dollaway: Since the first one actually. It's one of the things I gotta work on is settling down a little when I get out there. I get a little over aggressive and kind of lose my head when I do that and put myself into danger, end up getting submitted. I gotta learn to not be as aggressive as I am or find a way to be safe while I'm doing it.

Franz: Like you see with Amir, you can be really aggressive and put a hurting on a guy but when a guy proves to be so tough that's what make it difficult.

CB Dollaway: When he sits back and he's pretty calm in there. Gotta make sure I keep my cool.

Franz: To wrap everything up here, is there anyone else you'd like to thank, anything you'd like to say?

CB Dollaway: Just like to thank MTX Audio and my management group LG Sports Marketing and my gym Arizona Combat Sports and all my training partners there.
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riff-raff

The back of the head provides an easy knock out and limits the competition..:cool: it can cause serve concussion ...just dont understand why they let you elbow to the top of the head which is more dangerous because thats where all the plates in the skull join together ... which is a kill zone...

cletus

riff-raff wrote: »

The back of the head provides an easy knock out and limits the competition..:cool: it can cause serve concussion ...just dont understand why they let you elbow to the top of the head which is more dangerous because thats where all the plates in the skull join together ... which is a kill zone...

personally, I've never heard of somebody being killed from an elbow to the top of the head. I would imagine that if the person was standing upright and the elbow travelled directly downwards, there would be more chance of injury to the cervical spine due to compression, however, this is not a situation that is ever likley to occur in a fight.

have you anything other than anecdotal evidence of this "kill zone"?

riff-raff

yeah if you every look at a new born baby there is a small hole in the top of the skull [Anterior Fontanel (Soft Spot)] where the pulse can be seen also in the art of ninjitsu they aim for this site using a down ward strike to cause multiple brain trauma... its one of the easy places to fracture or open the fissures in the skull...

cletus

im aware of the fontanel, Im also aware that the fused joints in the skull are quite strong, still haven't heard of anybody being killed from such a strike.

again emperical rather than anecdotal evidence

riff-raff

Mmmmmmmmm!! How do you reckon we test this ... I done my fair Of stints in an A&E dept. with car crash and motor bike accidents..............Most brain traumas are from the brain traveling inside the skull when the skull is stationary because the skull stops first before the brain does inside the skull.. but apart from the deaths resulting in internal injuries alot of the deaths from head injuries result from an open fracture in the top of the skull resulting in bleeds in the brain tissue beneath...;)

cletus

I understand the reasons behind brain trauma, and I dont doubt that the temporal bone is the main bone damaged (as you probably know this runs to the top of the head)

I'm also sure you've seen some horrific injuriesa in a & e, however, were any of these top of the head injuries cause by a downwards elbow strike? or were they the result of motor accidents

http://www.emedicine.com/ent/byname/temporal-bone-fractures.htm

in the above link it is reported that 80% of the injuries to the temporal lobe run transversly, affecting the inner ear. The other 20% run vertically, persumably reaching the top of the head, however the blows generally come from the front.

still no evidene that downwards elbow strike are th3 de4dly.

@everybody else, sorry for ****ting up the mma thread, will be my last post on this particular subject

Fozzy

cletus wrote: »

at least this gets rid of the "no downwards elbow strike" rule. I can see UFC implementing all but the weight class rules (and possibly the smother rule??)

It's not that simple. If the UFC hold an event in a state where the commission goes by these new rules, then the smother rule will be something that they have to go by. It would be a foul according to the commission and the UFC can't override that

They could decide that they still don't want any downward elbows though. It's like when PRIDE had shows in the US, they had to go by the US rules, but they could still impose more fouls themselves, like no elbows on the ground. But if something is deemed a foul by the commission then the UFC have no choice but to obey it

It could get a bit messy though. The commissions don't have to apply these new rules. I read that Nevada's commission (that or California's) are going to look over them and that they won't decide to use them or not until a meeting next year. That could result in the UFC having some events where downward elbows are legal and others where they're not, depending on where the event is on. The only way for the UFC to ensure that they can use the same rules everywhere would be if they decided that downward elbows and smothering are both illegal

cletus wrote: »

not sure why the felt the need to change the weight classes. considering most casual fans will be more aware of the names of the weight classes as opposed to the actual weight of the weight classes.

I was reading this week's issue of the Wrestling Observer and Dave Meltzer was talking about this without actually knowing that there was going to be changes made so soon. He mentioned Rich Franklin and how he's a 210lber who fights at 185 but probably isn't at his strongest there now because of how much weight he's cutting. And now he's fighting at 205 and he's going to be smaller than everyone else. He said that a 195 division would benefit guys like Franklin. Although guys his weight would probably still cut to 185

It was said that a division for every 10lbs would eliminate weight cutting to a degree. Nothing will ever completely eliminate it though. Plus there's so many fighters these days that divisions can get crowded. I can't see the UFC having any more than six divisions for a good while though. Any more champions than that and the belts start to mean less


As for this elbowing the top/back of the head thing: I've seen guys knocked loopy from strikes to the back of the head but none that I can think of to the top of the head. I've seen guys take shot after shot to the top of the head and still fight on, while guys who take one shot to that soft part of the head will go wobbly straight away

Everyone made weight for tonight, cant wait now.


Gotta throw some bets on it now!!

dunkamania

Just to clarify on Herb Dean's earphones explanation, this was neve official, and the new ruling debunks it.

NOt in favour of the new weight rules, Its gonna get very messy with guys competing in 3 or more weight classes.

Fozzy

dunkamania wrote: »

Just to clarify on Herb Dean's earphones explanation, this was neve official, and the new ruling debunks it.

Some commissions did go by that interpretation of the rule though, so it was "official" in those states

Kent Brockman

Fozzy wrote: »

Plus there's so many fighters these days that divisions can get crowded. I can't see the UFC having any more than six divisions for a good while though. Any more champions than that and the belts start to mean less

Would there be any benefit in returning to the old 8 man tournie format (or even 4 man ) with so many fighters available? Or is this too unreasonable on the fighters?

Fozzy

Kent Brockman wrote: »

Would there be any benefit in returning to the old 8 man tournie format (or even 4 man ) with so many fighters available? Or is this too unreasonable on the fighters?

Dana isn't a fan of tournaments at all, so it's unlikely. Plus if you look at recent MMA tournaments in the US, they've been pretty bad. The YAMMA 8-man tournament was required to have three-minute one-round fights for the non-final fights, which meant that the winners were mostly guys who took their opponent down first and held them there for three minutes. Strikeforce had a four-man tournament which had a lot of trouble before it had even begun, and the final had one guy who had had a short semi-final fight against another guy who'd had a long semi-final fight. So the first guy won simply because he was fresher, it wasn't any sort of real contest

Even if you look at the DREAM tournaments currently going on in Japan, they've had each round on a different show but guys are still getting injured in fights and they have to be replaced, which hurts the tournament

I don't think that tournaments would be a smart move for the UFC