Ceann Comhairle

lostexpectation

I don't get the CEANN COMHAIRLE postions I thought TD were supposed to represent their constituency and take part and vote innational debates in the dail and if you don't do it well you chance of losing your seat and the next election.

presumbly rory o hanlon still does consituency work and get someone else to ask questions if he needs them asked?

apart from avoiding the next election what would the benefits to the poeple of DC would get from tony gregory being CC over and above being a member of the government.

there only a short piece on his TD role on the gov page
http://ceanncomhairle.oireachtas.ie/role.asp

On assuming office and to ensure his unique role of presiding impartially over the proceedings, the Ceann Comhairle by tradition precludes himself from active participation in politics but remains free to make representations on behalf of constituents. The Constitution recognises this unique role and provides for the automatic re-election of an out-going Ceann Comhairle who wishes to be a member of the incoming Dáil.

Judt

Look at it this way: Would you prefer the person presiding over parliament were an unelected position not from within the ranks? The CC has to have been elected and a normal member of the Dail at some stage. Most (if not all) parliamentary democracies have a speaker of the house like this.

lostexpectation

Judt wrote:

Look at it this way: Would you prefer the person presiding over parliament were an unelected position not from within the ranks? The CC has to have been elected and a normal member of the Dail at some stage. Most (if not all) parliamentary democracies have a speaker of the house like this.

am not argueing for or against Im just wondering how it works in practice

Grudaire

Well he can't vote as far as I know, so he can't influence Dáil decisions....

But it does mean that one constituency has one less voting rep...

Oirthir

Cliste wrote:

Well he can't vote as far as I know, so he can't influence Dáil decisions....

They have a tie-break vote don't they?

I know it's an unlikely scenario, but given the numbers in the 30th Dáil, anything's possible!

Dave!

hmmm, when you put it like that it does seem a bit contrary to why you were elected in the first place TDs are elected on the basis that they will vote in the Dail and influence decisions in some way. If you become CC, then you're effectively abstaining from voting!

Can someone maybe point out to me the benefit for your constituents, of you becoming Ceann Comhairle? I just don't see it!

wb

I'm open to correction here, but as far as I remember, the CC job is often given to a member of the opposition, especially in 'unstable' governments. It gives the opposition party some sort of power (and influence?) and prestige, yet loses them a vote which is good news for the government.

timmywex

put it this way. would you prefer to be a gaurenteed td for the next 10 yeasrs or 5??

seamus

timmywex wrote:

put it this way. would you prefer to be a gaurenteed td for the next 10 yeasrs or 5??

Sin é.
Whatever made you think that TDs were interested in representing their constituents?

markpb

Ideally of course, TDs would make national decisions, not local ones so there's no loss of representation for his area. Also, the CC is automatically elected in the following term so they do eventually get to represent the people who voted for them.

aequinoctium

it's a good position...automatic re-election

however it's a lonely 5 years cos you can't be seen as being somewhat biased

LostinBlanch

aequinoctium wrote:

however it's a lonely 5 years cos you can't be seen as being somewhat biased

Going by your quote then I can only think that Rory O Hanlon wasn't lonely for the last 5 years!

Ruen

He's impartial and cant be involved in party politics so for 5 years he cant really hang around with his colleagues or be invovled with his party.

Seth Brundle

seamus wrote:

Sin é.
Whatever made you think that TDs were interested in representing their constituents?

but... but... but thats what they told us before the election.

Oirthir

kbannon wrote:

but... but... but thats what they told us before the election.

Ah, Dáil Éireann, Ireland's biggest county council...

redspider

I think its time that the Ceann Comhairle (ie: our parliamentary chairman) selection process was changed.

It doesnt make sense that the person is chosen from the ranks of the TD's (is a Senator also possible?) as it is clear that they will be biased one way or another. Whilst its not possible to rid the country of bias in any position, whether judiciary, civil service, etc, it would be better if the Dail Chairperson was selected in a neutral manner and akin to a judicial or a civil service position. They could train for the position by sitting in the Dail for a year before hand.

The CC could hold the office for as long as they wanted or perhaps 4 terms or 20 years is long enough.

How they should be appointed is not an easy quandry. Perhaps the President of the country or the Supreme Court?

aequinoctium wrote:

cos you can't be seen as being somewhat biased

I think that most CC's have been in favour of the current government or the one that appointed them.

> he can't vote as far as I know, so he can't influence Dáil decisions....

The CC can vote I understand, when the house is tied or when its close, eg, on the fall or not of a Government, ie: a vote of confidence. Usually, the CC vote is not needed.

Also, he can certainly influence debate and Dail time/prcodeure/proces, and the direction of the house. And what he allows to be debated and how its debated can certainly influence decisions. He also has the authority to remove TD's from the house if they dont "behave" so that could influence voting decisions too, although I dont know of any cases.

In a tight Dail, as this one looks like it will be, the CC role becomes more important. But overall, the appointment process should be changed, and the chairperson should come from different stock.

Redspider

Ruen

His personal opinions may be biased but thats irrelevant because he has to maintain the order in the dail and carry out certain other functions that are mainly routine like calling on members to speak. Anyway it's impossible to have anyone perfectly impartial in any position that requires it like a judge or the ceann comhairle, we are all only human, we'd need a robot to do that.

Oirthir

redspider wrote:

It doesnt make sense that the person is chosen from the ranks of the TD's (is a Senator also possible?)

Well I'm not a member of the Supreme Court, but I reckon the below excerpt outlines that the CC has to be a member of the Dail and the Cathaoirleach has to be a member of the Seanad.

Bunreacht wrote:

9. 1° Each House of the Oireachtas shall elect from its members its own Chairman and Deputy Chairman, and shall prescribe their powers and duties.

redspider

Ruen wrote:

His personal opinions may be biased but thats irrelevant because he has to maintain the order in the dail and carry out certain other functions that are mainly routine like calling on members to speak. Anyway it's impossible to have anyone perfectly impartial in any position that requires it like a judge or the ceann comhairle, we are all only human, we'd need a robot to do that.

Oirthir wrote:

Well I'm not a member of the Supreme Court, but I reckon the below excerpt outlines that the CC has to be a member of the Dail and the Cathaoirleach has to be a member of the Seanad.

Thats the way it is now, but we can change the consitution. It just seems a poor practice if impartiality is the aim. How can a TD who spends their life being partisan suddenly change their spots and become impartial and completely fair? Impossible I would say.

By the way, we should also change this one:

15. The Oireachtas may make provision by law for the payment of allowances to the members of each House thereof in respect of their duties as public representatives and for the grant to them of free travelling and such other facilities (if any) in connection with those duties as the Oireachtas may determine.

Allowing TD's to set their own salaries is a ridiculous system. Even the corporate world realises this and most lasrge companies have changed their system by and large whilst not being required by law to do so - its just called 'good governance' although with many insider non-exeutive directors on the various committees, its far from the finished article.

By the way, I didnt even realise we had a deputy chairman in the Dail!

Redspider

Oirthir

Well the constitution was changed ages ago to allow non-TCD & non-NUI graduates to elect members of the Seanad and that was in 1979, so I wouldn't hold your breath on implementing changes that the Oireachtas isn't in favour of!

Heinrich

If Finian goes in with Bertie the only way he would ever get my vote again would be if he was appointed CC! Having has a green as one of my preferences after Finian I am annoyed with their flip-flop and will not entertain them again.

These people get our votes because they give out policies that appeal to us. Greed for money and power seem to be more important than principles.

Should have voted for Ivor.

threads merged.
As per the sticky-do not be opening new threads on the same subject.

Heinrich

Tristrame wrote:

threads merged.
As per the sticky-do not be opening new threads on the same subject.

Apologies for veering off topic. The original post was about the function of the CC. My contribution is about Finian MaGrath in that role. The only common factor here was the title Ceann Comhairle.

Finian was elected as an independant in a three seater constituency with two Fianna Fail candidates. Were he to go the FF route that would be technically three FF candidates. That is the gist of my topic.

Ruen

Heinrich wrote:

Apologies for veering off topic. The original post was about the function of the CC. My contribution is about Finian MaGrath in that role. The only common factor here was the title Ceann Comhairle.

Finian was elected as an independant in a three seater constituency with two Fianna Fail candidates. Were he to go the FF route that would be technically three FF candidates. That is the gist of my topic.

He's not going the FF route he'd just be doing his best to get in government to implement the policies he ran on and lets face it if he was an independant in opposition he wouldnt get anything done, now he's still an independant and he's going to get alot done for the constituency. If you think about it this is good for Dub North Central because he'll get more done for us than a FF TD could because he has no allegiance to FF and if he doesnt get what he wants he can just up and leave so Bertie would have to keep him happy.

Ruen

redspider wrote:

Thats the way it is now, but we can change the consitution. It just seems a poor practice if impartiality is the aim. How can a TD who spends their life being partisan suddenly change their spots and become impartial and completely fair? Impossible I would say.

By the way, I didnt even realise we had a deputy chairman in the Dail!

Well every President we've ever had has had to do it and theres never been a problem with it and thats a much more important role.
Somebody has to fill in when the CC pulls a sickie:D

Jonny Arson

So, with Fianna Fáil now looking certain to appoint a CC from their party after tonight's events who will they appoint? Will they go for O'Hanlon again?

Voipjunkie

Jonny Arson wrote:

So, with Fianna Fáil now looking certain to appoint a CC from their party after tonight's events who will they appoint? Will they go for O'Hanlon again?

Dick Roche is my guess as it is likely that his job at environment is gone other possibility is Cullen as despite his complete ineptitude Bertie seems to like him and at least the CC can not waste money

Voipjunkie

Heinrich wrote:

If Finian goes in with Bertie the only way he would ever get my vote again would be if he was appointed CC! Having has a green as one of my preferences after Finian I am annoyed with their flip-flop and will not entertain them again.

These people get our votes because they give out policies that appeal to us. Greed for money and power seem to be more important than principles.

Should have voted for Ivor.

Yeah because Ivor has no greed for power or money:rolleyes:

If Finian is elected CC he won't need your vote he gets reelected automatically

Voipjunkie

Heinrich wrote:

Finian was elected as an independant in a three seater constituency with two Fianna Fail candidates. Were he to go the FF route that would be technically three FF candidates. That is the gist of my topic.

That is complete nonsense he would still be an independent if the numbers stack up a different way next time McGrath I'm sure would have no problem going that way if the deal was right.
Just because he has supported FF for this term does not tie him in anyway to FF

nesf

Voipjunkie wrote:

That is complete nonsense he would still be an independent if the numbers stack up a different way next time McGrath I'm sure would have no problem going that way if the deal was right.
Just because he has supported FF for this term does not tie him in anyway to FF

Well said. McGrath is acting on his mandate essentially, that mandate being to get the most he can for his constituency.

Heinrich

nesf wrote:

Well said. McGrath is acting on his mandate essentially, that mandate being to get the most he can for his constituency.

MacGrath never said anything about joining in with FF before the election. My point is that had he done so I and I am sure others would have simply given the vote to a real FFer. I do believe that anyone going along the FF path will get squuezed one way or another. Look at he depleted PDs and the state of Labour after their affairs with FF!

I would say the same for the Greens. So Mr Sargent is honouring his commitment by stepping down as leader but will act as such until he is replaced. He gets a junior ministry on top. That's just bandying words around.

We will see how the constituents will benefit from MaGrath's alliance in time to come. Rendez-vous in 5 years to discuss?:p Of course the electorate have short memories and even less interest...