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What did you think of the General Election results ?..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanies32
Well good luck as the Min. for Health! Then again I wouldn't put fast food staff in Hospital Theatres
We all know they're well paid, probably overpaid, what, lets sack them and put then in the Four Lights. That will help.AverageJoe wrote:Seanies..you'd be surprised who works in some of these places, really.
looks can be deceptive. i've not met a doctor yet, but i'd say just because someone works in fast food doesn't make them any less of a person intellectually.Average Joe wrote:assumption? Re-read your sarcastic response to my sarcastic comment on hospital consultants working in fast food restaurants.
You effectively insinuated that those who work in fast food are unfit to work in hospital theatres.
My interpretation of your comment is that people who work in fast food are uneducated, which is pretty arrogant with all respect.
Did i wrongly assume something? please tell me what.
I assumed nothing because you agreed with me. Read the posts properly. As you said you haven't met a doctor yet in a fast food restaurant. You said it not me!Seanies32 wrote:Then again I wouldn't put fast food staff in Hospital Theatres
Well would you, would you put somebody with a IT degree into a hospital theatre? Working in a fast food restaurant or in IT is a side issue.
You are using this as a side issue to avoid in any way answering the question that was posted. What happens when you sack all the consultants?
I know plenty of people who work/worked in Fast Food. You read between the lines assuming what you wanted to assume. You don't know me whatsoever only from a few posts on this site, so you just assume something by reading between the lines.averageJoe wrote:You effectively insinuated that those who work in fast food are unfit to work in hospital theatres.
My interpretation of your comment is that people who work in fast food are uneducated, which is pretty arrogant with all respect.
No, just that they would be unfit to work in hospital theatres unless they are trained as such.
What an assumption. Tell you what, sack all the consultants and put fast food staff in instead as well as IT people, Accountants etc. etc.
Instead of attacking the poster based on assumptions answer the original question. What is your solution to the consultant contracts?
Seanies32 wrote:Yes I worked for £68 per week 12 years ago in Dublin. Wasn't even £2. More assumptions.
2.30 is not ok, read my earlier posts. I wouldn't say report them if I thought it was ok.
6.06 is the minimum for a Trainee as and from 1 July. Not great but better than 2.30 The proper minimum is 8.65.AverageJoe wrote:i find that patronising, but i'm not surprised.
There is a big difference between 12 and 7 years ago..i think we can both agree on that.
Your original quote was:averagejoe wrote:Are you saying that 2.30 an hour was ok then? i only worked there 6 months.
i left with an injury to my ankle which i still have today.
you have all the answers, but have obviously never been in a situation where you are being underpaid, and unable to do anything about it, otherwise you would know, the government doesn't give a damn.
You assumed again and was wrong. I was underpaid and couldn't do anything about it. You get €200 now for the same position. Still poorly paid. I take it you agree that is a poor wage? Your assumption that I have never worked in a poorly paid job whether it was 12 years ago or if I was in the same situation now is Wrong.average joe wrote:why are you comparing punts to euro?
2.30 punt an hour was what i worked for back in april 2000 when the minimum wage was introduced, recommended at 4.40averagejoe wrote:i did about 61 hours in 6 days (half day saturday) one week, and i got paid 141 punt, roughly 2.30 an hour.
Well you did quote punt, so why question me?averagejoe wrote:6 euro per hour is a bad joke.
house prices in ireland have risen by 210% in the last 7 years, the minimum wage has increased by by about 80% which is where i assume the rich are getting richer while the poor working class people on minimum wage continue to struggle.
6 € is for under 18's and apprentices. Since when are Under 18's entitled to houses.
The OECD has pointed out that gap between rich and poor has actually decreased in the last 12 years but I suppose that doesn't matter either?averagejoe wrote:i don't think you're living in the real world, makes me wonder how much you get paid per hour, i'll bet its alot more than 6 euro.
You assume correctly for once
I'm not under 18 or an apprentice!Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Average Joe - you're still avoiding the question. Sack all the consultants and what happens?Average Joe wrote:
you're the one making assumptions, and its this. People who work in fast food restaurants are unfit to work in hospital theatres.
right or wrong?
Absolutely, completely and totally and unapologetically. Would you put somebody with An IT degree or an accountant or a fast food worker in a hospital theatre unless they where qualified?
So again, what happens if you sack consultants?averagejoe wrote:i'm not trying to avoid answering your question, i made a point that hospital consultants are very lucky to have the jobs they have, and be paid very well for it, so why must they continually cry about how tough it is for them?
they have very little to worry about, in reality.
And you said sack them if they keep crying about the new contracts. So what happens next?
Simple question. We all know they're lucky and well paid. We don't know what happens if they are all sacked. Love to know your solution?averagejoe wrote:reading between the lines? what lines? what did i wrongly assume about you?
i don't know you? you don't me either.
You assumed that I think people who work in fast food outlets are less intellectual than others. Where, where did I say that?averagejoe wrote:assumed what??? :eek: you're very arrogant, seanies32.
Here is your assumptionaveragejoe wrote:you have all the answers, but have obviously never been in a situation where you are being underpaid, and unable to do anything about it, otherwise you would know, the government doesn't give a damn.averagejoe wrote:You were trying to compare your situation with mine without clearly stating the conditions you worked in as i did in previous posts.
No just stating that I was underpaid and couldn't do anything about and that you assumed otherwise!averagejoe wrote:you compared 2.30 punt to 6 euro...i don't know what else to say to you.
Where? Obviously as you said 2.30 was 7 years ago so why would I compare it. Just stating the facts of the minimum wage.averagejoe wrote:hahaha, thats funny, thanks for the joke.
If you disagree with OECD figures take it up with them Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Average Joe - you're still avoiding the question. Sack all the consultants and what happens?
you've changed the question.. i answered to "what should be done"? and for your new question "what happens"? my answer is i don't know, you don't know either..
it practically is privatised with FF in power anyway.Absolutely, completely and totally and unapologetically. Would you put somebody with An IT degree or an accountant or a fast food worker in a hospital theatre unless they where qualified?
I NEVER SAID WE SHOULD put somebody with an IT degree or an accountant or fast food worker in hospital theatres!!!! and i say NO now. happy?
you just don't want to admit that your sarcastic comment was arrogant.And you said sack them.....We don't know what happens if they are all sacked. Love to know your solution?
you know my answer, yet ask the same question..what are you trying to prove here? whats your solution? build private hospitals on public land? where in the world has privatisation ever worked? give me an example, please.
i don't care what a consultant has said, i want EVIDENCE that privatisation of public hospitals works in the interests of THE PUBLIC.
it hasn't ever, and you probably know it, but don't care.You assumed that I think people who work in fast food outlets are less intellectual than others. Where, where did I say that?
"intellectual"...ok, wrong word, i meant less educated.
if you read what you said, you obviously insinuated that fast food staff were unfit to work in hospital theatres.
in summary, here is how it started, just to refresh your memory.
i said something like:
imagine hospital consultants having to work in fast food restaurants, how they would complain if they do so already with the good job and pay they have now, being sarcastic of course.
you quote me and respond with something like "i wouldn't put fast food staff in hospital theatres.."
a sarcastic throw-away comment insinuating that fast food staff are not qualified to work in hospital theatres.Fine, thats your opinion, but PLEASE REMEMBER, I NEVER SAID THEY WERE!!!
my response is that you don't know if an educated person, capable of working in a hospital theatre works in fast food restaurants or not.
they may be qualified, and unable to practice in this country, that is quite common.
junior doctors in east european countries can work for as little as 150 euro a month, they are no less educated than a doctor from this country IMO.
i don't have a problem seeing greedy consultants in this country being replaced by consultants from another country, if the job is done well..and i've no doubt the people exist to do it, its better for everyone.
there are questions on the ethics of that, and i'm not going to answer them.
perhaps you should ask yourself about the ethics of valuing one persons life over another based on their material wealth.Here is your assumption
yes, thats right.
So..did you complain???, were you able to do something about your situation??? you never said INITIALLY, and i don't think you'll answer me either.
i contacted a government employee about my problem, and they didn't care.
did you?, i will assume you did, as you "couldn't do anything"Where? Obviously as you said 2.30 was 7 years ago so why would I compare it. Just stating the facts of the minimum wage.Seanies32 wrote:6.06 is the minimum for a Trainee as and from 1 July. Not great but better than 2.30 The proper minimum is 8.65.
how much has the minimum wage increased in the last 7 years?
how much has the cost of living increased in that time also?If you disagree with OECD figures take it up with them
i usually disagree with anything a government body or politician says because they're all liars at the end of day, thats how they get to positions of power in the first place.
Not by being honest or hard working.. politicians are good liars, everyone knows that.
as for OECD, the fact that there is more money circulating in this country doesn't measure the country's overall wealth.
for example, my friend has worked for minimum wage his whole life, 10 years ago, a bank probably wouldn't lend him an amount equivilant to todays value.
so, if he has a nice car because he got a loan from the bank, does that make him better off? not really, he has a nice car and a debt to the bank, like countless others in this country.
are people better off because they're spending more money they don't have?
some of the "poorer" people are better off, most notably those who have sold land, own land or work in the construction industry.0 -
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I don't think we're going to agree here.Average Joe wrote:you've changed the question.. i answered to "what should be done"? and for your new question "what happens"? my answer is i don't know, you don't know either..
You said sack doctors if they don't agree as a solution to the consultants contracts. But you don't know what would happen if that was done Thats not a solution. Maybe you can see that Mary Harney or the HSE can't tell them like it or lump, there has to be compromise. I'd love to tell them go stuff it with their new contracts but......averagejoe wrote:I NEVER SAID WE SHOULD put somebody with an IT degree or an accountant or fast food worker in hospital theatres!!!! and i say NO now. happy?
you just don't want to admit that your sarcastic comment was arrogant.seanies32 wrote:
You assumed that I think people who work in fast food outlets are less intellectual than others. Where, where did I say that?averagejoe wrote:"intellectual"...ok, wrong word, i meant less educated.
I didn't assume that either. Where did I say that. I know a lot of students work in fast food.averagejoe wrote:if you read what you said, you obviously insinuated that fast food staff were unfit to work in hospital theatres.
Unfit? Yes, if they aren't trained. Unless the majority are trained doctors and you know something I don't! That is not arrogant.averagejoe wrote:my response is that you don't know if an educated person, capable of working in a hospital theatre works in fast food restaurants or not.
they may be qualified, and unable to practice in this country, that is quite common.
Of course I don't, either do I know if somebody working in a shop/pub/accountancy firm/IT dept. is either. I have nothing against people in fast food
Seriously, as you say it was a throw away remark in response to you saying put the consultants into fast food outlets
As you say yours was a throw away remark and so was my response. You then assumed I though they were less intellectual or less educated, which is not in anyway true. You touched a nerve there
averagejoe wrote:build private hospitals on public land? where in the world has privatisation ever worked? give me an example, please.
i don't care what a consultant has said, i want EVIDENCE that privatisation of public hospitals works in the interests of THE PUBLIC.
it hasn't ever, and you probably know it, but don't care.
I don't care, what......
I think i posted here that health is the big test for this Govt. They have to get a decent health system.
We already and have had for years a private health system subsidised by the taxpayer. Private patients avail of public hospitals, private consultants the same and pass the medical card holders to the junior doctors. That is privatisation Irish style An Irish solution to an Irish problem.
The Govt. is proposing taking most of this out of the system. Eg. in Letterkenny my father who paid Insurance all is life was on a trolley for over 12 hours one night last year. There where no private beds for him when he was admitted. If a private hospital was built he could be sent to there, not taking up much needed beds that would be freed up for public patients.
The opposition did not come up with any radical proposals on health. If they had said well we're going to do things the German way and deduct 14% of everybody and devote that to free health system for everybody I would have listened, but instead they just said more of the same with a few little vote winning gimmicks thrown in.
Also the German would cost poorer people more as they would have to take 14% of their income for Health. People with health insurance already have deductions. No system is perfect.averagejoe wrote:junior doctors in east european countries can work for as little as 150 euro a month, they are no less educated than a doctor from this country IMO.
i don't have a problem seeing greedy consultants in this country being replaced by consultants from another country, if the job is done well..and i've no doubt the people exist to do it, its better for everyone.
I'd have no problem either, they would love €200,000 a year, but as has been shown with the opposition to the new contracts the IMO would.averagejoe wrote:perhaps you should ask yourself about the ethics of valuing one persons life over another based on their material wealth.
As I said, I personally would love to see the German health system here but it isn't an option. None of the main parties had the balls to suggest it and probably the electorate would agree with it on the doorsteps but then vote against it when they see it would cost them money.averagejoe wrote:how much has the minimum wage increased in the last 7 years?
how much has the cost of living increased in that time also?
Minimum wage has gone up over 60% from about €5.50
to €8.65.averagejoe wrote:as for OECD, the fact that there is more money circulating in this country doesn't measure the country's overall wealth.
Yes but the survey which measured the gap between rich and poor showed a reduction in the gap in 12 years based on the same statistics.
Really if anybody on a minimum wage decides to spend a lot of their money on car payments that is their choice. It is up to the them. The Govt. can't stop them. Personal choice!Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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