Can car be returned??

Darragh29

Look, if a car sales outlet has a car with parts (A), (B) and (C) missing and the car needs an NCT, why not put it in the back yard until the parts come in and then NCT the car and put it on the forecourt in a condition that is suitable to be sold??? If a dealer, independent or otherwise, has a heap of sh1te on the forecourt with body parts missing, I doubt very much he is going to worry about replacing anything after the car is sold. A guy in this situation very obviuously has cash flow problems which are preventing him from putting parts into the car before he sells it. A guy in this situation with cashflow problems certainly won't be in a position to meet any warranty commitments he might give with the car. If he can't fix what is wrong with it before it goes out the door, he certainly can't fix anything that might go wrong with it afterwards.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for someone who buys a car and 6-7-8 months later a clutch, gearbox, engine or head gasket goes and they have to force the warranty cover back from the seller, but in this case body panels were missing for a start, you don't need to be a mechanic to spot these problems.

Bettyboop

Darragh29 wrote:

Look, if a car sales outlet has a car with parts (A), (B) and (C) missing and the car needs an NCT, why not put it in the back yard until the parts come in and then NCT the car and put it on the forecourt in a condition that is suitable to be sold??? If a dealer, independent or otherwise, has a heap of sh1te on the forecourt with body parts missing, I doubt very much he is going to worry about replacing anything after the car is sold. A guy in this situation very obviuously has cash flow problems which are preventing him from putting parts into the car before he sells it. A guy in this situation with cashflow problems certainly won't be in a position to meet any warranty commitments he might give with the car. If he can't fix what is wrong with it before it goes out the door, he certainly can't fix anything that might go wrong with it afterwards.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for someone who buys a car and 6-7-8 months later a clutch, gearbox, engine or head gasket goes and they have to force the warranty cover back from the seller, but in this case body panels were missing for a start, you don't need to be a mechanic to spot these problems.

He said everything would be done to the car that my mum pointed out ie,grill,scratches,
cleaned service etc. BEFORE he put it in for the nct,the tyres were painted and the cracks weren't noticeable on them at the time,only when it rained they appeared.I told him all this on the phone and he said "it passed with them tyres on it" (he wasn't as polite as that)Even the spare is bald and perished.
What I cant understand is how a car can pass an nct with no water in it and no break fluid and bald and perished tyres.The garage my mum got it from in Clondalkin does finance as well and he has a fair few cars there too also he advertises on a well known car site so he must have a few euros.I have a 3 month warranty for engine and gear box.Are you saying its worthless??The tyres were replaced today,but I doubt I will receive the parts in the post as promised.We are looking at our options now on what steps to take.
Thank you all for your comments
Much appreciated:)

DublinDilbert

Bettyboop wrote:

He said everything would be done to the car that my mum pointed out ie,grill,scratches,
cleaned service etc. BEFORE he put it in for the nct,the tyres were painted and the cracks weren't noticeable on them at the time,only when it rained they appeared.I told him all this on the phone and he said "it passed with them tyres on it" (he wasn't as polite as that)Even the spare is bald and perished.
What I cant understand is how a car can pass an nct with no water in it and no break fluid and bald and perished tyres.The garage my mum got it from in Clondalkin does finance as well and he has a fair few cars there too also he advertises on a well known car site so he must have a few euros.I have a 3 month warranty for engine and gear box.Are you saying its worthless??The tyres were replaced today,but I doubt I will receive the parts in the post as promised.We are looking at our options now on what steps to take.
Thank you all for your comments
Much appreciated:)

Kinda picking up on this thread a bit late....

Are you saying that the car passed the NCT with no front grill fitted? and it still doesn't have a front grill fitted?

i wouldn't imagine any car would pass without this fitted....

I would document the list of defects, possibly with the help of your own mechanic.... get a list from him and put it on paper...

If there is a few serious defects i would contact the NCT people and look for an explanation as to how the car passed... If the defects are as obvious as you say, they might be quite interested in investigating, just to make sure everyone at their end is being honest...

Bettyboop

here is a few photos,1 of the spare wheel which doesn't fit in the boot properly
the front of car where grill is missing,sorry I ain't the best with a camera
my mechanic is holding on to the other tyres which are worse than the spare.
Will post the pics of the tyres that I got replaced later.

craichoe

Either the car has been sitting there for ages or he threw some tyres on it that he had lying around for 3 - 4 years. They must have been there for ages if their that perished.

IMHO the NCT isn't worth Squat .. I've seen a car pass with a blown head gasket and another pass with two wrecked front shocks.

Its totally hit and miss.

I'd say your screwed in this case, he can say you bought the car as is and you'll have a tough time proving otherwise unless its on paper

colm_mcm

Looks like the front was repaired, paint all over the bumper clips.

maidhc

craichoe wrote:

I'd say your screwed in this case, he can say you bought the car as is and you'll have a tough time proving otherwise unless its on paper

Judges tend to believe people who come across as honest quicker than used car salesmen. There is a presumption that consumers do not buy "as is" from people in the trade.

They tyre looks to me like it is scrubbed from tracking being seriously out rather than perished.

You can reject the car if it can be shown you have not lost the right to reject. This generally depends on how long you have owned it, but on a s/h car you will probably loose the right very quickly.

I would write a letter giving 7 days to put things in order, and then you could consider going further.

Darragh29

Bettyboop wrote:

here is a few photos,1 of the spare wheel which doesn't fit in the boot properly
the front of car where grill is missing,sorry I ain't the best with a camera
my mechanic is holding on to the other tyres which are worse than the spare.
Will post the pics of the tyres that I got replaced later.

Well, on the tyres front, you won't find a tyre that doesn't have some cracks on the thread. What the NCT are concerned with is:
(1) Thread depth (not a problem on your tyre from what I can see).

(2) Cracks/nicks/tears/bulges to the tyre wall (inside & outside), as distinct from the tyre thread area.

(3) Evidence of tracking problems/uneven wear patterns found on the tyre thread.

I can't see any cracks on the tyre wall in your pic but I am looking at the inside tyre wall due to how you took the pic. The cracks on the tyre thread area are nothing to be worried about imo.

The missing grill is another matter. If this passed the NCT in this condition, someone has been slipped a 50. He could have stuck a good grill from another car onto yours to get it through the NCT. Maybe he knows someone in the NCT centre who turned a blind eye. Either way, the NCT won't get involved in your dispute, unless you quote them their own manual. You can find their regulatory manual here: http://www.ncts.ie/nctmanual.pdf


Under the heading of Body panels, you'll find:

"Examine primary structural components (including floor pan) for cracks, security, damage or rust. Check where repairs have been carried out that the original strength and safety of the vehicle has not been compromised and that any welding or brazing has been carried out using good engineering practice. Check from both front and rear that the body is sitting squarely. Examine all secondary structural components for security, rust or jagged edges. Check that bumpers, guards, body panels are secure and not likely to injure pedestrians or other road users."

In your case, this car should have failed for what are called, "Sharp Edges"...

Looking at the cuts from the bumper for the grill mountings, these were not done in the factory during production. It looks like someone cut these holes in the top of the bumper with a saw to mount a different grill from the one that was originally supposed to be fitted there. Looks someone put a different grill into the front of the car, (a grill for a totally different car), at some stage and had to change the grill mountings on the bumper to do this and this is why your seller won't now get a new grill for you, because he would have to change the mountings again to line up with the original grill that should be on the car.

Jo King

One thing you can do is threaten him by telling him that you will bring the car to another dealer to have the problems rectified and you will then pursue him through the small claims court for the cost.

Bettyboop

here are a few more pics.I have contacted the NCT centre and they asked me for the chassis no. and said they will get back to me,they told me its still in the previous owners name.Just a question? The previous NCT wasn't due till the end of August 07, he advertised the car on thursday and was able to get a new Nct done the next day.Anything strange about that?Or are dealers able to get it done quicker? I have asked for a refund but have heard nothing back as yet
looks like I will be going down the legal road now.Getting an independant report
done also. which unfortunately should have been done before my mum handed over the cash.A lesson learned the hard way.
Thanks all for the input appreciated as always.

DublinDilbert

Bettyboop wrote:

here are a few more pics.I have contacted the NCT centre and they asked me for the chassis no. and said they will get back to me,they told me its still in the previous owners name.Just a question? The previous NCT wasn't due till the end of August 07, he advertised the car on thursday and was able to get a new Nct done the next day.Anything strange about that?Or are dealers able to get it done quicker? I have asked for a refund but have heard nothing back as yet
looks like I will be going down the legal road now.Getting an independant report
done also. which unfortunately should have been done before my mum handed over the cash.A lesson learned the hard way.
Thanks all for the input appreciated as always.

Hey,

Thats good news that the NCT center are taking your query seriously...

As far as i know you can get the NCT done up to two months in advance, but thats just off the top of my head... there is a rule as to how far in advance you can get the car tested, someone on here should know..

mukki

PLEASE NOTE: NCTS can issue your certificate up to six months early for a first time NCT and three months early for subsequent NCT tests. In other words, if your car was first registered in July and you are coming for your first NCT, you can have it tested up to 6 months early in January and your certificate will still expire on the anniversary of registration 2 years later. Your certificate is then valid for 2 years and 6 months.


its 3 months

Bettyboop

mukki wrote:

PLEASE NOTE: NCTS can issue your certificate up to six months early for a first time NCT and three months early for subsequent NCT tests. In other words, if your car was first registered in July and you are coming for your first NCT, you can have it tested up to 6 months early in January and your certificate will still expire on the anniversary of registration 2 years later. Your certificate is then valid for 2 years and 6 months.


its 3 months

Thanks

BostonB

colm_mcm wrote:

Looks like the front was repaired, paint all over the bumper clips.

Its even more obvious now.