People with a X car is crap attitude

colm_mcm

Jeez, that's a bit harsh!

PauloMN

craichoe wrote:

One thing i will say for the Irish, for some reason the consensus is that if it costs more its must be better, hence why we've over inflated prices on everything, from houses to digital cameras !

LOL. So Ireland is the only country where premium brand products are available?

Who cares what people think of your car as long as you are happy with it? While I appreciate a nice car, I don't really compare what others drive to what I drive - as long as I like the car I drive, I'm happy out!

If you're having a rant like that, you are obviously not happy with something. Go out and buy a different car - it might help. Oh, and don't buy an Alfa or a Skoda - cheap tat. (Joking)

old boy

at the moment i am driving an 98 spacewagon with 266 thousand, plus a few hundred on the speedo, its driving grand no rattles etc, its what you like to do, i dont think i could be described as a lemming. each car is driven by different people for different reasons, i.e. why are there so many happy laguna drivers out there

Do-more

prospect wrote:

I'll give you an example, the cheapest 'BMW' X3 is €57K, and it is a total heap of KAK

Talking of outsourcing, the current X3 is made in a moped factory in Austria

And if you drive a "Porsche" Boxster it may well have been made in a tractor factory in Finland!

maidhc

Do-more wrote:

Talking of outsourcing, the current X3 is made in a moped factory in Austria

And if you drive a "Porsche" Boxster it may well have been made in a tractor factory in Finland!

Porsche never really made tractors. Ferdinland designed the tractor, but the production was outsourced very early on.

I can see the comparison between the x3 and a moped!

G Luxel

Lexus is Toyota. Up to 2005 there was a Toyota version of any Lexus on their homemarket. Likewise Daihatsu is Toyota, bar maybe one or two models that are their own, but most of their range here is also available as Toyota's in their homemarket. Am I right in thinking that there are fewers Chevrolets than Daewoos here. When I think of Chevrolet I think Corvette, Impala etc, not rebadged Korean cars built in Eastern Europe. Another example is companies selling other products with their own name on it.
Take the fiat scudo/peugeot/citroen range of vans, all identical but different badging. If they are making so much money, they could create their own individuality instead of sharing designs.

Guy:Incognito

G Luxel wrote:

Take the fiat scudo/peugeot/citroen range of vans, all identical but different badging. If they are making so much money, they could create their own individuality instead of sharing designs.

Are you saying that Toyota, Peugeot or Citroen couldnt have afforded or managed to develop the Aygo/C1/107 on their own?

Sometimes its cheaper or more practical to co-develope somethign rather than go it alone for whatever reason.

colm_mcm

Toyota, Citroen or Peugeot didn't go into the Aygo/C1/107 project to make money, it simply introduces new car buyers into a brand, If they have a good experience with said brand, then they may stick with it in the future.

TJJP

G Luxel wrote:

Lexus is Toyota. Up to 2005 there was a Toyota version of any Lexus on their homemarket.

I can agree with that G Luxel, but on the badge on one car is the same as all the other racket here, I'm not convinced.

I drove a Honda Element for a couple of weeks in the states and when I got home I was glad to be back in my 5-series. I was always a big fan of Hondas, but that 2.4L honda was beast to drive and fuel. I know its chalk and cheese to compare an SUV and a sedan but that only re-enforces the point that people make different choices for different reasons.

colm_mcm

Lexus being badged as Toyota was down to the brand not being launched in Japan, I'm sure you'd agree that it was more Lexus being rebrabded than Toyota being rebranded for the rest of the world.

prospect

Ok,

I don't know the in's and out's of who makes what laptop, but:

I bought an Apple MacBook last year. I paid more for it than a similar spec model Dell. But I don't care if it was made on the same production line, its a completely different machine. The clever magnetic power cord, the large single click touchpad button, the small form, the neatness of the machine, with very few holes, vents, buttons etc, the OS and standard software. Overall, I am paying extra for what I feel is a better designed machine, rather than who built it.

The same applies to cheese. You can buy a block of chedder, sliced chedder or grated chedder. They are all packed in the same place, they are all the same product, but they are different in the way they are presented to the customer, and people will pay for what they want.

Same applies to cars.

lightening

Try running a design studio on Dells. Its been tried and it doesn't work. Macs are the only way to go when it comes to graphics.

Sounds like the OP bought a Skoda, wants an Audi or a VW and is justifying his purchase.

Craichoe, the Skoda is a fine car, not everyones taste, but no need to be embarrassed.

As your fond of saying yourself "Err....."

craichoe

prospect wrote:

Ok,

I don't know the in's and out's of who makes what laptop, but:

I bought an Apple MacBook last year. I paid more for it than a similar spec model Dell. But I don't care if it was made on the same production line, its a completely different machine. The clever magnetic power cord, the large single click touchpad button, the small form, the neatness of the machine, with very few holes, vents, buttons etc, the OS and standard software. Overall, I am paying extra for what I feel is a better designed machine, rather than who built it.

The same applies to cheese. You can buy a block of chedder, sliced chedder or grated chedder. They are all packed in the same place, they are all the same product, but they are different in the way they are presented to the customer, and people will pay for what they want.

Same applies to cars.

Aye, I agree, its a lovely laptop.
But no WAY i'd pay the full retail price for it.


Gatser:

Oh i'm not knocking Dell at all, i'm just saying they manufacture most of their Stuff in Asia and yes alot of it does make it to EMEA. Everyone out-sources these days, i just don't see if why you have such a hard time accepting it.

Dell is one of the Biggest sellers of our stuff that we have, to be honest though, working with Dell Servers is like working with the Ladas of Production Equipment. :rolleyes:

However back to car point,
Some said i was sore about owning a Skoda, to be honest i'm embarrassed to own any car, Its a money hole, you may as well start setting money on fire and throwing it up in the air, but i need it to get to work.

I need something reliable and safe and cheap and not something i have to buy with a Loan or those nutjobs that go for Hire-Purchase.

Its just Irish people in General seems to have an attitude of blowing more cash on overpriced cars (which are overpriced in a European market anyway) and spend more on a badge, but can never seem to be bothered to

A. Service it
B. Buy tires for it
C. Buy anything after they've purchased it to keep it to the standard its meant to be at to be on the road.

How many Mercs, BMW's and Lexus's have you seen with defective tires.

Saying something is made anyplace is a joke, its doesn't matter where its made, factories have the same standards everywhere, the only variable is a failure rate.

Manufacturing facilities in Ireland usually have a lower failure rate than their counterparts in Asia, but then again it is lower volume and the stuff that comes out the end is the same anyway.

whippet

craichoe wrote:

However back to car point,
Some said i was sore about owning a Skoda, to be honest i'm embarrassed to own any car, Its a money hole, you may as well start setting money on fire and throwing it up in the air, but i need it to get to work.

I need something reliable and safe and cheap and not something i have to buy with a Loan or those nutjobs that go for Hire-Purchase.

Its just Irish people in General seems to have an attitude of blowing more cash on overpriced cars (which are overpriced in a European market anyway) and spend more on a badge, but can never seem to be bothered to

A. Service it
B. Buy tires for it
C. Buy anything after they've purchased it to keep it to the standard its meant to be at to be on the road.

How many Mercs, BMW's and Lexus's have you seen with defective tires.

Saying something is made anyplace is a joke, its doesn't matter where its made, factories have the same standards everywhere, the only variable is a failure rate.

Manufacturing facilities in Ireland usually have a lower failure rate than their counterparts in Asia, but then again it is lower volume and the stuff that comes out the end is the same anyway.

So ... what you are saying is that you are not a car fanatic and don't see any value apart from the car getting you from A-B safely. That is your take on it.

There are people who love cars and everything else about them, from collectors who have hundreds of cars to the 20 year old 'mod' car owners.

Some people buy the cheapest laptop they can find, as it does the basic job they want it to, others have different needs and different desires.

But to come on to a motoring forum and berate anyone who has a differing opinion to you is a little childish and to me does not make sense.

On a side issue ... I know that there are a few Macs knocking around the in Dell's advertising studio !! why would that be?

craichoe

whippet wrote:

So ... what you are saying is that you are not a car fanatic and don't see any value apart from the car getting you from A-B safely. That is your take on it.

There are people who love cars and everything else about them, from collectors who have hundreds of cars to the 20 year old 'mod' car owners.

Some people buy the cheapest laptop they can find, as it does the basic job they want it to, others have different needs and different desires.

But to come on to a motoring forum and berate anyone who has a differing opinion to you is a little childish and to me does not make sense.

On a side issue ... I know that there are a few Macs knocking around the in Dell's advertising studio !! why would that be?

I see the value in paying for a reliable and safe car that performs well, personally i do not see the point in paying over the odds in Tax, Insurance, Servicing, Loss in resale value for a premium brand for the same product in this country when the roads will destroy it anyway.

I find it curious when you go to a dealership to purchase a part and they same part is a different price in different dealerships, even though it is identical and comes from the same place.

On the laptop point.. and its OT again.. People don't have a clue what their buying when they purchase a laptop. And Graphic designers use Apple because Apple would have sold it to their college for a massive Educational discount, hence they've only used Quark and Photoshop on Mac's before.

I own a Mac ... but no way in hell would i pay full retail for it, its just not worth it ! Then again, i may use my stuff to actually do some work rather that post some crap on myspace :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

craichoe wrote:

....I see the value in paying for a reliable and safe car that performs well, personally i do not see the point in paying over the odds in Tax, Insurance, Servicing, Loss in resale value for a premium brand for the same product in this country when the roads will destroy it anyway....

Do you drive a Skoda or Toyota?

Perhaps one of these would be more your bag?

lightening

That was a bit mean of me to say you are embarrassed with your car, but you did call everyone idiots.

One thing you never mentioned is styling and performamce. People will pay lots for styling, for good reason too, you can't call them idiots if they have lots of money and want something beautiful.

Gatster

Oh i'm not knocking Dell at all, i'm just saying they manufacture most of their Stuff in Asia and yes alot of it does make it to EMEA. Everyone out-sources these days, i just don't see if why you have such a hard time accepting it.

Dell aren't the best at everything, but I've seen and engineered aspects of their production lines here and in Poland. I know the figures, and I know my facts, this is not just what I've read/heard. I don't have a problem with out-sourcing, everyone does it, I do have a problem with uninformed statements plagiarised from the web then re-hashed as gospel.

I find it curious when you go to a dealership to purchase a part and they same part is a different price in different dealerships, even though it is identical and comes from the same place.

So what, the same product is different prices in different shops/websites, it's the way the world is.

The fact appears that you're not particulary into cars, but then come onto a dedicated motoring forum and start berating people - it's trolling any way you want to view it...

gyppo

I can see both side of the arguement here.

For example, how many base spec bmw 316's are on the road in this country, simply because of the badge. Lots, I would think. A lot of buyers struggle to buy the badge, and can then only afford the most basic spec car.
Personally, I'd plump for a fully loaded 6 pot bmw a few years old in preference to newly registered entry level one.

Then there are the others (like all of this forum ) who buy cars because they like them, and where the year of the plate and/or the brand of the car isnt the number 1 priority.

craichoe

Gatster wrote:

Dell aren't the best at everything, but I've seen and engineered aspects of their production lines here and in Poland. I know the figures, and I know my facts, this is not just what I've read/heard. I don't have a problem with out-sourcing, everyone does it, I do have a problem with uninformed statements plagiarised from the web then re-hashed as gospel.

So what, the same product is different prices in different shops/websites, it's the way the world is.


What he said...:D

Sorry, If you believed my information came from the web. They are one of our Alliance partners so we do have a good idea of how everything works, Dell do sell more of our Gear than we do But it is basic basic hardware and thats what you pay for.

They do have the worst employee discount too, which would indicate that their margins on hardware is quite low.

Apples on the other hand is 27%

When buying a part from VAG, in an Audi, Skoda, Seat or VW dealership, the parts are manufactured in the same place and come from the same Distributor. Their all VAG dealerships, can someone explain to me is the RRP different or are the dealerships throwing on their own magic bonus ?

Ask a cop how many BMW 330 and 350d's he's stopped with no road tax or its out of date by one or two years, because its cheaper to pay the fines.

I don't see why someone would pay for it if they can't afford to keep it on the road ?

craichoe

Henry Ford III wrote:

Do you drive a Skoda or Toyota?

Perhaps one of these would be more your bag?

I might, couldn't justify the cost though
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Penny-Farthing-Ordinary-bicycle_W0QQitemZ150126834785QQihZ005QQcategoryZ69825QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think a Raleigh might do me instead.

Gatster

They do have the worst employee discount too, which would indicate that their margins on hardware is quite low.

Apples on the other hand is 27%

How is this relevant to anything here?

When buying a part from VAG, in an Audi, Skoda, Seat or VW dealership, the parts are manufactured in the same place and come from the same Distributor. Their all VAG dealerships, can someone explain to me is the RRP different or are the dealerships throwing on their own magic bonus ?

It's called business - take the Dixons group on the hight street, same products, different brands, often different prices.

craichoe

Gatster wrote:

It's called business - take the Dixons group on the hight street, same products, different brands, often different prices.

Its a bit different when the same manufacturer sells all the parts through their dealerships through the same distributors and its not a different brand.

Buy a part for an Audi and its will have all four badges on the box.

HashSlinging

craichoe wrote:

Seriously, I've seen a few people on here dissing a car because of its name ?

I mean . Why .. I don't get it, theres no basis for it.

VW is better than Skoda and Audi is better than VW ? I mean, you idiots really have fallen for the brand game.

Tesco do the exact same thing and its why they make so much money, its off idiots like you ! i.e. selling products under different brands to target all markets.

Its the same as a person buying a Dell over Apple, A MacBook pro comes off the EXACT same production line as a Dell Latitude, their manufactured by Quantas, they just tool up to produce a different laptop in a day. Dell make money on Volume, Apple make money on Margin / Lower Volume.

Next time i hear someone say, OH .. OH MY GOD .. Its a Skoda, haha ...

Yes .. Buy a brand new car .. for your .. err .. image.. lose 10% of the Value when you drive it out of the showroom. Pay the overhead for a different Badge

Opel Vs Chevrolet Vs Saab Vauxhall ?
VW Vs Seat Vs Audi Vs Skoda
Toyota and Lexus

Yes .. Yes .. Car manufacturers are Laughing all the way to the bank, selling you the same stuff with different names .. Excellent

Its a lot more complicated than that somewhere along the lines of -

*If everybody looked the same
We'd get tired looking at each other*

craichoe

HashSlinging wrote:

Its a lot more complicated than that somewhere along the lines of -

*If everybody looked the same
We'd get tired looking at each other*

Yes... They better looking ones do generally cost more .. but ride is generally the same on all of them

But really, allot of people on the motors forum slate a car because of Brand and their Perceived image of it, they don't have any objective opinion of the quality, reliability or drive of the car. I'd give an opinion on something based on what the individual's needs are, not what i think they should be.

Of course .. I suspect a few sales heads would disagree.

Anyone thats says "it will hold its value better than X or Y" is kidding themselves, a car is not an investment, its a MONEY HOLE.

zuutroy

craichoe wrote:

Anyone thats says "it will hold its value better than X or Y" is kidding themselves.

Thats just wrong. Of course different cars depreciate at different rates....What % of the original price does an 8 year old BMW 750 sell for? Now what % does and 8 year old Yaris sell for?

craichoe

zuutroy wrote:

Thats just wrong. Of course different cars depreciate at different rates....What % of the original price does an 8 year old BMW 750 sell for? Now what % does and 8 year old Yaris sell for?

An 8 year old 5.4 Litre V12 would have massive depreciation as anyone that could afford to run it wouldn't buy it in the first place.

A percentage isn't really a fair comparison when the car costs around 80k IEP ... even if it only devalued 40% you've still lost 32,000 on it, excluding the uber running costs, must be around 15 - 20 mpg if even and the massive servicing costs that come with BMW's

Then you get to the insurance .. Ha ! ..

Gatster

Originally Posted by craichoe
Anyone thats says "it will hold its value better than X or Y" is kidding themselves.

Ok, put it this way. A VW Polo, price X will hold it's value better than say a Clio of similar price. Whatever your (re)branding 'concerns', you can check this out by looking at the used car market.

An 8 year old 5.4 Litre V12 would have massive depreciation as anyone that could afford to run it wouldn't buy it in the first place.

A few people on here have large engined older cars and I'm pretty sure they can afford to run them, they've had them a while - yet another unfounded generalisation then :rolleyes:

whippet

craichoe wrote:

Anyone thats says "it will hold its value better than X or Y" is kidding themselves, a car is not an investment, its a MONEY HOLE.

I don't think anyone here will try and say that any car purchase is an investment with the exceptions of some classic cars that will appriciate in value.

Generally cars will loose 40-50% of their value in the first 3 years .. that is called cost of ownership. Some people are willing to pay for it some are not. That is personal choice. Its the same as saying that why pay for a two week carribean cruise when you can get a two week sun holiday in Crete from Budget Travel for a few hundred euro ... 'sure they are both holidays'.

I am willing to pay a premium for driving the car I am driving over the next few years and I do not make any apologies for that. If you personally feel that you would prefer to have your hard earned money sitting in a bank account fair enough, I work hard and like to spend my hard earned money on things I like and a lifestyle I like while saving prudently.

The more and more you talk about cars the less and less credible you are on this forum. You have no interest in motors by the tone of your posts. It would be like me getting on to the computer forum and dissing anyone who pays extra for fancy graphics cards.

In relation to your posts about the differences between the VAG group products. You seem to think that all the models are the same Leon, Golf, A3, Ocatvia ... you obviously have never compared them in reality. I was going to consider the Leon Cupra when I was looking at the GTi. It was cheaper, same engine etc ... I test drove it in the UK and it was quiet clearly a cheaper car. it had a little more power, lower quality interior, less refinment, not as sharp handling so I decided the GTi was the better motor and hence bought it.

From your post, you are of the opinion that I am an idiot and a brand monkey. Which couldn't be further from the truth. I could have bought an entry level 3-series for a few quid more, or an Audi A4 but the car I bought was the one I wanted.

I would ask you is it just cars and computers that you have a problem with people spending money on or do you like to srimp and save on everything, clothes, shoes, food, entertainment, booze, holidays, home furnishings, gifts .... do you enjoy a night out in the pub, where you can easily drop 40quid into the till and get nothing to take home with you .... I just don't get people like you !!!

Stark

whippet wrote:

I just don't get people like you !!!

I wouldn't worry about trying to get it. Crack Ho is quite clearly trolling.