Abusive Third Level UCD Students?

Vainglory

Sangre wrote:

lol@thisthread. what are the odds?

Haha, tell me about it...I think my face while I was reading it for the first time must have been priceless.

breadmonkey

1) OP, lol

2) Vainglory,

Did some travel company tell you that you needed to get a visa to enter Thailand? Some idiots in Trailfinders told me I needed but you actually don't. The immigration guy thought we were such idiots.

Vainglory

breadmonkey wrote:

1) OP, lol

2) Vainglory,

Did some travel company tell you that you needed to get a visa to enter Thailand? Some idiots in Trailfinders told me I needed but you actually don't. The immigration guy thought we were such idiots.

I think you don't need one for less than 30 days, but I'm going for over two months so I did need one.

lizzyvera

I think Katarin should apologise for tarring all UCD students with the same brush (because that's what starts stereotypes and stupid tribal mentalities) and for being so judgemental in the first place.

It was a very mean spirited, insulting post.

Vainglory

lizzyvera wrote:

I think Katarin should apologise for tarring all UCD students with the same brush (because that's what starts stereotypes and stupid tribal mentalities) and for being so judgemental in the first place.

It was a very mean spirited, insulting post.

No apology needed on my account, I was pretty enraged last night but have calmed down a lot, lol. I can see how someone would have taken it the wrong way alright.

breadmonkey

Vainglory wrote:

I think you don't need one for less than 30 days, but I'm going for over two months so I did need one.

Ah ok, well just in case you decide to stay longer, you can always do a visa run into Myanmar

stolenwine

katarin wrote:

The post office lady said it couldnt be done and gave a valid reason apparently.

yep on second reading sounds like they were standing in the Q and just got a few choice sound bites.

I would complain about the post office lady not on the basis of the mistake but because it sounds like she went out of her way to humiliate you.

katarin

stolenwine wrote:

yep on second reading sounds like they were standing in the Q and just got a few choice sound bites.

Yeah that's what it seemed like from where I stood. i wasnt trying to chastise Vainglory, i didnt even think she would be on this. everyones always complaining about the postoffice lady, though shes always been nice to me so when she was so upset after the whole thing i assumed she'd been wronged.

Stabshauptmann

fantastic logic

katarin

as i said, shes always been nice to me. and the story she told the man in front of me was ''a girl reported me because an post couldnt do something for her. and id tried to help her as best i could but she called customer service and told them i refused to help her''

panda100

People actually still use post offices?!Dont think ive been in one for years.

Generally I find most UCD students very pleasent but I have come across some extremely rude individuals in my time in UCD,no manners whatsoever with no respect for other people. I wouldn't put vainglory in this category at all though.Some of the UCD staff seem to have a god complex over us students,tis pretty annoying.

griffdaddy

Well ya can't send drugs/birthday cards/official documents/children through the internet, so you kinda need them sometimes!

Pythia

I was in the Post Office yesterday and the woman was being very unhelpful.
There was a foreign girl sending packages abroad. The post lady told her the heavier package was a letter and the lighter one was a parcel in terms of the pricing. The girl was confused but the post office lady explained it was due to dimensions, not weight. The girl was still confused so the post office lady weighed them again and then told the girl they were both packages. The girl asked why one had changed from a letter to a package. The post office woman basically denied she had ever said it had been a letter and told the girl she does this all day every day for x number of years so she had to be right.
Felt a bit sorry for the foreign girl but certainly wasn't going to butt in.

hullaballoo

How much job satisfaction do we think we're looking at here? A little bit of empathy might not go astray.

Stabshauptmann

Tbh, for all we know she likes her job. I remember in first year we were doing some class of motivational theory and it was generally assumed by everyone in the class that anyone in a low paid job or a non-professional hated their job or got minimal satisfaction.
From my experience thats far from the case. I dont think society would function if it was the case.

BMcG05

After spending the last 20 mins reading this entire post, I find it quite hilarious that the OPs original aim was to promote this women as a fair, nice worker.

However, now that the situation has become clear, this thread has only served to promote the inadequacies of this woman.

Good job

mloc

hullaball&#250 wrote:

job

Thats job, not prison sentence. She gets paid. It might not be the best job in the world, or the most thrilling, but the attitude of so many irish people in the service industry is abysmal compared to many other countries, in particular, the US.

Obviously there's good and bad in every industry in every country, but in my experience, the vast majority of lower-paid irish service industry people are about as professional as an alcoholic bus driver.

hullaballoo

What makes you think that the attitude of the worker isn't spawned from the attitude of those they are serving?

Your attitude appears to be that it's good enough for them to be working at all.

I've worked in the service industry in Ireland for about 7-8 years now, and some of the attitudes I've come across from customers would sicken you. Now, a lot of people will say to you that the customer's always right and that someone in the service industry should be happy to do the customer's will at every opportunity.

When they don't say please, thank you, or even frame their question in proper English - "pint there!" - how easy is it to turn around and say, "yes sir, no sir, three bags full, sir"? It's not.

I'm probably one of the lucky ones in that the place I have worked for longest values its staff enough to allow us to react naturally to these types of situation - so that if someone is rude to me, they will rightfully receive the same in return: "pint there", "pint of what where?"

mloc

I guess it is an attitude thing.

Personally, I favour the american model. After returning from Chicago where delays of more than 30 seconds on the subway are explained immeadiately, it was difficult to accept the attitudes of even the first service industry people I encountered arriving back here; the AirCoach drivers. Badly trained, rude and totally uninformed about what was going on with different bus routes etc. I had to ask 4 staff members before I was told where the unmarked bus in front of me was going. The driver seemed begrudged to have to open the luggage compartment for customers, which, as an AirCoach driver, is part of his remit.

It's these predominantly half-assed Irish attitudes that have make me want to emigrate, tbh.

Vainglory

I also worked in the service industry for over three years and I know that if I ever had kids, I'd make them work in the service industry at least once so they know not to treat people who do work there on a permanent basis like ****. I think everyone should work in that sector at least once, for that very reason.

I think this thread has gone a bit mad - whatever this woman may or may not be like, I don't think any public service employee really expects to have their pros and cons discussed by faceless strangers online - the only reason I posted was to clarify the OP's position and interpretation of what had happened.

hullaballoo

Vainglory wrote:

I think this thread has gone a bit mad - whatever this woman may or may not be like, I don't think any public service employee really expects to have their pros and cons discussed by faceless strangers online - the only reason I posted was to clarify the OP's position and interpretation of what had happened.

Yes, well I think the thread has taken a different veneer now that goes beyond this individual's character, and has moved onto a general discussion of the service industry.

Arguably, that's not on-topic for this forum, but I'm happy enough to let it slide because (a) it's a useful conversation and (b) there's no forum that I can think of that's really better suited.

Blush_01

If the woman in question has light coloured hair, she owns the post office, and is merely renting the space from the college. The post office moved from the Library building to the Restaurant building recently, I had a conversation with her about something almost 2 years ago and the move (which was subsequently delayed, for some reason) was supposed to be soon after that. For some reason her ownership of the post office came up, probably because of some comment I made about UCD running the post office or something misguided like that, and she was quick to correct me.

Lets be frank, she can be a wagon at times, and she can be lovely at times. If she didn't make money here, she could take her business elsewhere, as she and not the college run the An Post postal end of things, according to herself.

As for what Vainglory said, I'd second it. (I love working in direct contact with members of the public on a daily basis, but many people really aren't suited to it. It also makes you appreciate how downright rude and demanding some people can be for no apparent reason, and allows you to possibly cut some people more slack that you perhaps ordinarily would have done in subsequent situations.)

Stabshauptmann

mloc wrote:

I guess it is an attitude thing.

Personally, I favour the american model.

• Pay the employee badly so they rely on tips, making their weekly pay subject to huge variations?
• Standardise body language. Tell the employee how to stand, how to move their arms and head, constant smiling etc etc
• Incredible inefficiency. Personally, this drove me mad rather than making me relaxed. Two examples:
  1. I need something, I cant find it I ask an assistant. Im assured they have it and will go get it. They've no idea whether they have it or not/or even what I want. They ask 10 different ppl and bring me back 4 or 5 things that are similar to what I want. Annoying. But what the staff are told to do.
  2. Needless conversations. Greeters at the doors, the checkout staff talking to you about this and that (mutli tasking = doing two things badly at once). When my bank manager asked me if I went to any great parties recently and if I wanted to learn to surf I seriously considered closing the account.

The US service paradigm to me is very false and hallow, and it also annoys me that I am oblidged to tip for everything. Tips are for exceptional service.

.....
Badly trained, rude and totally uninformed about what was going on with different bus routes etc. I had to ask 4 staff members before I was told where the unmarked bus in front of me was going.

Ok you picked aircoach. But this is also a critisism constantly made against Iarnród Éireann. But Ive never had a funnier job. The staff (and my job involved travelling so I met a hell of a lot of them) everywhere I went spent some portion of lunch time telling new stories of the stupidity they encountered. Some of it is incredible. But just on your point, every customer I encountered presumed I'd know every train time in every direction off the top of my head - and became HIGHLY indignant if I didnt. People also wanted to know the times of trains running on different routes from different stations. Another constant pain, and really I dont understand whats going through ppl's heads; Some times I'll be sitting on the train on my way home from work (in uniform) and the train might break down. The ppl near me always ask whats wrong. How do I know, Ive been sitting beside you the whole time

On your point, there are not 4 staff members on every bus. If the bus is unmarked, and they have nothing to do with that bus, then what info do they have that you dont? Ask the bus driver.

Stabshauptmann

Vainglory wrote:

I also worked in the service industry for over three years and I know that if I ever had kids, I'd make them work in the service industry at least once so they know not to treat people who do work there on a permanent basis like ****. I think everyone should work in that sector at least once, for that very reason.

Funnily enough, someone has said this at nearly every job Ive had.

Sangre

Not related but I hate people who compare Dublin's transport infrastructure with other major cities. Bottom line is because of our stupid desire for low rise buildings we have a a low population density and thus will always have a crap transport system. Of course Holland's system is so much better, they have a LOT more people to service...grrrr.

Red Alert

We have a crap transport system due to mismanagement, fragmentation and government indecision.

FionnMatthew

hullaball&#250 wrote:

How much job satisfaction do we think we're looking at here? A little bit of empathy might not go astray.

Job satisfaction or lack of such is no excuse for the behaviour told of in Vainglory's post. Whatever job you have, you should never take out your own frustrations on other people, especially in a professional context.

There is no justification for being professionally rude to someone who doesn't deserve rudeness.

hulla wrote:

What makes you think that the attitude of the worker isn't spawned from the attitude of those they are serving?

Again, that's no excuse. Consider the situation here. It is apparent that Vainglory's attitude as made manifest in her actions was appropriate.

Whether or not the PO lady had a general experience of students with a bad attitude, this is no justification for a similar attitude towards all students. Even if all other students are rude, Vainglory was not rude, and did not deserve to be treated like that, and it's thoroughly unprofessional and unpersonable to take systemic frustration out on someone who behaves appropriately.

hulla wrote:

I've worked in the service industry in Ireland for about 7-8 years now, and some of the attitudes I've come across from customers would sicken you. Now, a lot of people will say to you that the customer's always right and that someone in the service industry should be happy to do the customer's will at every opportunity.

When they don't say please, thank you, or even frame their question in proper English - "pint there!" - how easy is it to turn around and say, "yes sir, no sir, three bags full, sir"? It's not.

I'm probably one of the lucky ones in that the place I have worked for longest values its staff enough to allow us to react naturally to these types of situation - so that if someone is rude to me, they will rightfully receive the same in return: "pint there", "pint of what where?"

In which case people who deserve to be treated badly are treated badly. Now, I don't necessarily agree with that either, because I think the best way to deal with ignorant people in a professional context is to treat them as nicely as possible. It makes them fume, and you remain in the right.

But would you advocate being rude to any random person who walked in, even if they hadn't yet demonstrated that they were going to be ignorant to you? Because that's the scenario we're talking about here. It's nothing to do with job satisfaction, or with ill-mannered customers. This is an unequivocal situation.

FionnMatthew

Kapt.Redeye wrote:

this is also a critisism constantly made against Iarnród Éireann. But Ive never had a funnier job. The staff (and my job involved travelling so I met a hell of a lot of them) everywhere I went spent some portion of lunch time telling new stories of the stupidity they encountered.

I think the most stupid general group of people I have to come into contact with, besides the scumbags I meet on the Nitelink, are CIE workers. I've been using Iarnrod Eireann for 6 years now, in person I have an optimistic and personable disposition, and I don't consider my general impression to be unfair or mistaken.

Granted, IE customers are equally obnoxious. Businessmen using their suitcases to force their way in front of people, because they're obviously more important, and thus deserve a seat. People who sit on the floor of the train during rush hour, under signs that distinctly forbid doing exactly that.

But IE employees are some of the most ignorant, uneducated, antisocial and downright rude people I ever have to deal with. And the general calibre of IE customers is no excuse. I don't know if you know a guy called Pat, who's the station master in Donabate, but he's an exemplary employee, who proves that it isn't impossible to have some level of decency and politeness in dealing with people. In general though, IE employees are as ignorant as they come, and are second only to the Irish Dublin Bus drivers.

Kapt.Redeye wrote:

Some of it is incredible. But just on your point, every customer I encountered presumed I'd know every train time in every direction off the top of my head - and became HIGHLY indignant if I didnt. People also wanted to know the times of trains running on different routes from different stations.

I don't know what your job description was, and I don't think much of people being highly indignant if you didn't know it off the top of your head, but I would consider it encumbent upon you to always be in a position where you could volunteer that kind of information. You should have a timetable on you, and be able to consult it, for instance. Your job shouldn't just be about your job description anyway; if you find yourself being asked regularly for train times, you should ensure that you can be helpful in that capacity; you should be looking for ways to be helpful.

FionnMatthew

Sangre wrote:

Not related but I hate people who compare Dublin's transport infrastructure with other major cities. Bottom line is because of our stupid desire for low rise buildings we have a a low population density and thus will always have a crap transport system. Of course Holland's system is so much better, they have a LOT more people to service...grrrr.

Are you on drugs?

You can't rebutt comparisons between Dublin's PT system and the PTSs of other cities by citing a supposed cause for the inadequacy of Dublin's PT system.

All public transport systems have the explicit goal of transporting the public. Desireable goals for all PTSs are speed, efficiency and capacity. PT systems in Holland have the same goals as PT systems here: speed and efficiency and capacity.

Hence, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of comparing Dublin's PTS and Holland's PTS on speed, efficiency or capacity. It is evident, on comparison, that, relative to the local demand for speed, efficiency and capacity in Holland's public transport, Holland's PTS is quite adequate.

Relative to the local demand in Dublin for a public transport system that is quick, efficient and equal to the capacity demanded of it, Iarnrod Eireann, and indeed Dublin Bus, but particularly IE, are completely inadequate.

Citing population density differences, and cultural housing preferences, and other such happy curiosities, has no bearing on the matter. As a public transport system, CIE should be quick, efficient, and have a capacity equal to the demands dictated by the Dublin area. If we have a low population density this just means that it should be easier to provide a good service.

Under no circumstances is low population, ever, a justification for the idea that it could take 5 hours to make the round trip from here to here, on the public transport system in Ireland's capital city. That situation, which is a reality by the way, can only ever be seen, by the ideals of any public transport system at all, such is their nature, as a farce.

Blush_01

I don't agree FionnMatthew. A job is part of your life, not your whole life. I do think, however, that Kap might profit from wearing a hoodie over his uniform or popping into the toilet to change into a t-shirt in order to avoid unwelcome questions from people out of hours. How many people walk up to a barman on the bus home and ask for a pint, or approach a hairdresser on the street for advice on shampoo?

I regularly get approached by people outside of work who expect me to do work-related things for them outside of office hours. My response is almost always that the office hours are x to x and the out of hours service is reachable at (--)

---

. I have no access to the office out of hours. Also, I'm only paid to care between the hours of x and x. After that time, other people are there to care. Regardless of whether I care or not, there is very little I can do for someone out of office hours, unless I'm in the office late, in which case I have too much work to do, otherwise I wouldn't be staying late, and there's still someone else to look after your needs.

Those people travelling on the train had ample opportunity to get the information they expect Kap to have themselves. There are (usually) timetables in the office of the train station you are travelling from. There's a €3 (iirc) nationwide table available for purchase in each station. What's stopping people from planning their journey in advance? The timetables are all available online, everyone who is literate has access to the internet these days through a number of sources. The onus is on the traveller, not their fellow traveller (regardless of where they are employed) to plan their own journey. Also, if Kap is off-duty, then there is someone else working on the train who is doing the job he was doing. So no, just because you have a job in the public service does not mean you are a slave to every dimwit who couldn't plan their journey before they left home. Their indignance is usually the root of the problem tbh.

I by no means wish to trivialise any difficulties experienced in Dublin with regards to Public Transport, but I'm sure you'll find that if you were to talk to someone who lives outside of Dublin, public transport becomes less of a dysfunctional machine and more of an invisible/mythical one.