Uh Oh - Just Won a Fiat Punto on eBay

jArgHA

Hmmm well I'm about to buy my 1st ever car and won a bid for a Fiat Punto 1996 1.2ltr. ELX on eBay from an Irish seller with positive feedback. However, maybe I should have researched the car a bit more before being so enthusiastic - doing a quick search on boards.ie for "Fiat Punto" and all I can see is folk talking about head gasket issues and wotnot.

The mileage is around 58K, 3 owners to date, cost around 800. The NCT valid for only 6 more months. I am planning to view and test-drive the car this weekend before handing over my notes.

What I want to know is: what are the main things I should beware of when viewing/testing? I have heard people mention head gasket issues here - is it easy to spot if this issue exists (don't know a whole lot about cars)?

Also, an eBay-related question, if I decide not to buy, can the seller give me negative feedback or with car sales is the buyer always given the option of pulling out on viewing?

Any other tips on viewing appreciated (checking service history etc.)

Many thanks,
jAH

BigTommyBomb

By law he can actually sue you if you don't buy.

jArgHA

BigTommyBomb wrote:

By law he can actually sue you if you don't buy.

the thing is I didn't meet his reserve price, so I didn't 'win' the item on eBay, I came in as the high bidder and then offered a price which was below the reserve which was accepted. does this make any difference?

Mr. Presentable

If the gasket was going to be a problem it'd probably have gone long ago. Watch for signs of "peeled doors", also Puntos that age had an engine management failure that was fairly high - again, though, it'd probably have happened by now.

Our man in Havana

It is an off ebay deal so. Feck all he can do if you back out.

jArgHA

Bond-007 wrote:

It is an off ebay deal so. Feck all he can do if you back out.

is that for cetain? phew that's a relief in case it's a crock

_Kaiser_

I'd imagine (although I'm no lawyer so this is just an opinion) that if the car turned out to be a crock that it'd fail the "must be fit for the purpose", "is as advertised" or "bought in good faith" requirements/principal thus the seller would have no comeback.

Of course eBay's terms and conditions are the stuff of internet legend and conspiracy (if you believe it), but admittedly I'd never buy something like a car online without having seen it/driven it/had it checked out first myself.

But that's me. Worst come to absolute worst and you're bound legally, you're out €800. Nasty but could be worse!

jArgHA

well hopefully all will be well, in fairness the seller sounds honest and gave a history and detailed description of the car along with very good pictures in the ad.

what I really would like to know is what to watch out for on the test drive tho...

Anan1

jArgHA wrote:

the thing is I didn't meet his reserve price, so I didn't 'win' the item on eBay, I came in as the high bidder and then offered a price which was below the reserve which was accepted. does this make any difference?

Was the offer made and accepted through eBay?

Our man in Havana

jArgHA wrote:

is that for cetain? phew that's a relief in case it's a crock

He didn't get his reserve and you had bid a lower price. I take it he emailed you off ebay after the auction ended to offer it to you at a lower price? If so he has sold to you outside ebay protection so he can do b*gger all if you don't buy.

jArgHA

Bond-007 wrote:

He didn't get his reserve and you had bid a lower price. I take it he emailed you off ebay after the auction ended to offer it to you at a lower price? If so he has sold to you outside ebay protection so he can do b*gger all if you don't buy.

not quite, I contacted him after the end of auction (through the eBay messaging as I didn't have his email address) and told him that I had been the high bidder and would he accept my lower price. he then replied through the eBay messaging and said OK I'll sell for that lower price....

I've contacted eBay customer support to see what the status is on this. maybe I'm just envisaging a worst case scenario tho and am getting overly worked up

Anan1

Bond-007 wrote:

He didn't get his reserve and you had bid a lower price. I take it he emailed you off ebay after the auction ended to offer it to you at a lower price? If so he has sold to you outside ebay protection so he can do b*gger all if you don't buy.

It's also possible to make and accept an offer on eBay after the auction, it's called "second-chance offers" or something similar. If this is what happened, then the seller has bought the car.

Anan1

jArgHA wrote:

not quite, I contacted him after the end of auction (through the eBay messaging as I didn't have his email address) and told him that I had been the high bidder and would he accept my lower price. he then replied through the eBay messaging and said OK I'll sell for that lower price....

I think you're safe so.:)

seamus

BigTommyBomb wrote:

By law he can actually sue you if you don't buy.

Have you any links to back that up?
In order for the seller to be able to sue, you'd have to enter into contract with them to buy the vehicle before you backed out. I very much doubt that winning a bid on ebay can be considered entering a contract in Irish law. Especially considering that nothing has been signed, digitally or otherwise.

At best, eBay can ban you, but that's about it.

egan007

Wait a minute, were you expecting a trouble free 11Year old car?

BTW 58K over 11 years is only 5K per year.....it sounds clocked
10K per year is average.

Look for service logs some body must of stamped it in the last 11 years.
If there is a 60K stamp in there start asking questions, then walk away.
NCT record the mileage at every check, look for certs.

At 11 years the Head Gasket will probably not go if you do not drive like a maniac. I would be more worried about the cluch at this stage.
Make sure the Timing belt has been changed at some stage. If it has the mileage it was changes at is probably written on the engine with tipex. (another good place to see if the real mileage is over 58K)

As for not buying it, if it's not the right car don't buy it.
ebay is not easily enforceable if his description is out by a fraction (i.e. he did not tell you about the minute scratch on the boot) then you have case to not buy.

Good luck.

Anan1

seamus wrote:

Have you any links to back that up?
In order for the seller to be able to sue, you'd have to enter into contract with them to buy the vehicle before you backed out. I very much doubt that winning a bid on ebay can be considered entering a contract in Irish law. Especially considering that nothing has been signed, digitally or otherwise.

At best, eBay can ban you, but that's about it.

eBay is an auction, the same as any other. I've never heard of it happening in Ireland, but people have been successfully sued in the UK. As with any auction, you bid to buy.

jArgHA

egan007 wrote:

Wait a minute, were you expecting a trouble free 11Year old car?

BTW 58K over 11 years is only 5K per year.....it sounds clocked
10K per year is average.

Look for service logs some body must of stamped it in the last 11 years.
If there is a 60K stamp in there start asking questions, then walk away.
NCT record the mileage at every check, look for certs.

At 11 years the Head Gasket will probably not go if you do not drive like a maniac. I would be more worried about the cluch at this stage.
Make sure the Timing belt has been changed at some stage. If it has the mileage it was changes at is probably written on the engine with tipex. (another good place to see if the real mileage is over 58K)

As for not buying it, if it's not the right car don't buy it.
ebay is not easily enforceable if his description is out by a fraction (i.e. he did not tell you about the minute scratch on the boot) then you have case to not buy.

Good luck.

thanks egan, yeah I may have been a bit naive on this but at least I'm getting some good tips from ye before I hand over any dosh. the description stated that first owner was old lady, 2nd owner spaniard who moved out of country and current owner put 20,000 miles into since he got it. i will be wary of clocking tho and will ask for service history

thanks again, will let ye know what happens!

jAH

Mailman

The 1.2 litre ELX(even if it isn't the 16V version) was a very nice car in it's day.
Becasue it isn't a base model there is a chance that the person who owned it was a bit more mature and wasn't miserly with servicing
If it is a straight car for 800 Euro you have done well.

Interceptor

It won't hurt to take a look - its a bit odd that you bid on it, didn't get it, contacted the seller off-auction and agreed a price and only now are starting to get cold feet due to reading advice on a forum. You are under no obligation to buy, you can email the seller and cancel your offer since the sale didn't go through on an auction or Buy It Now.

It sounds expensive for a '96 Punto, but if it is pristine it might just be worth the money since it has some NCT and it is the higher spec ELX model. The head gasket is easy to check but it is best to bring an experienced person with you to check everything else too. I'd be expecting not to have to spend any money on the car for the next year and I'd expect it to have alloys and a recent service. Haggle hard or walk away if not...

Don't believe everything you read - VW Polos break down too, and the small car with the highest proportion of head gasket failures is actually the Opel Corsa according to a mate of mine who works in an engine repair factory. There are lots of Puntos around and although they have some known faults, they are a good car to start off in. Don't expect it to be able to pull a horsebox though...

'cptr

bjmotors

i actually work for ebay out in blanch so il giv you some advise. Firstly the seller can give you negative feedback if you refuse to complete the transaction.

However, if you go to look at the car and it aint as described you can file a item SNAD dispute wite eBay.

Basically this is a item significantly not as described dispute that buyers can open against a seller when they buy an item that is not as described in the listing, i.e. misleading description.

this dispute can go two ways then, either the seller can agree to not go ahead and cancel the transaction or you can escalte this to a claim with eBay.

It pretty technical after that so i wont bore you with all that.

but best of luck with the car anyway, hope it all works out for ya.

TommyT

Silly Question? But why did you bid on something if you didnt want to buy it?
Its people like you who get ebay a bad name.

Our man in Havana

bjmotors wrote:

i actually work for ebay out in blanch so il giv you some advise. Firstly the seller can give you negative feedback if you refuse to complete the transaction.

However, if you go to look at the car and it aint as described you can file a item SNAD dispute wite eBay.

Basically this is a item significantly not as described dispute that buyers can open against a seller when they buy an item that is not as described in the listing, i.e. misleading description.

this dispute can go two ways then, either the seller can agree to not go ahead and cancel the transaction or you can escalte this to a claim with eBay.

It pretty technical after that so i wont bore you with all that.

but best of luck with the car anyway, hope it all works out for ya.

How can he hide behind flea bays rep system if he did the deal with the OP off flea bay?

colly10

Its only costing 800, if it's running then thats good enough. If your worried about the gasket then check for mayo under the oil cap. If ye don't like it then don't buy it but I wouldn't be expecting too much for that kind of money

baz205

never buy a second hand fiat... their crap when their new,
never mind second hand

bazz26

Personally I'd never bid or agree to buy a car that I didn't see in the flesh or drive first.

Also I'd rather live with a bit of negative feedback on eBay than pay over €800 for a potential dodgy motor.

jArgHA

well this one ended up unexpectedly, with all the talk of me possibly pulling out of the deal... I had arranged a viewing and test drive for Saturday. then late Friday night I get a text from seller - "I have just made a sale on the car. Good luck with the car hunting" !!

So after all that the seller pulls out. My guess is he figured he could hold out for a higher price. Anyhow after I cooled down I wasn't too bothered because of some of the negative things I'd been hearing about Fiats.

Then on Sunday I test drove a 1993 1.4l Nissan Sunny with 110K miles, and only 2 owners. I know the seller and he will sell for 500 with a 2 year NCT, so its a no-brainer. Car was solid and nice to drive so alls well that ends well I guess... (except the insurance is going to be 300 more than a 1.2ltr. car)

Thanks for all the advice again
jAH

vengeance52

jArgHA wrote:

well this one ended up unexpectedly, with all the talk of me possibly pulling out of the deal... I had arranged a viewing and test drive for Saturday. then late Friday night I get a text from seller - "I have just made a sale on the car. Good luck with the car hunting" !!

So after all that the seller pulls out. My guess is he figured he could hold out for a higher price. Anyhow after I cooled down I wasn't too bothered because of some of the negative things I'd been hearing about Fiats.

Then on Sunday I test drove a 1993 1.4l Nissan Sunny with 110K miles, and only 2 owners. I know the seller and he will sell for 500 with a 2 year NCT, so its a no-brainer. Car was solid and nice to drive so alls well that ends well I guess... (except the insurance is going to be 300 more than a 1.2ltr. car)

Thanks for all the advice again
jAH

Mate, I had a 95 Nissan Sunny 1.4 for ages, and it was a great car. The only prob i had was having to put petrol in it Best of luck with the motor