cheat days

juanveron45

I only commented on the diet, which could improve big time

Fair enough, he probably has good genetics but imagine what he could achieve with a better diet

Degsy

juanveron45 wrote:

I only commented on the diet, which could improve big time

Fair enough, he probably has good genetics but imagine what he could achieve with a better diet

"Genetics" and diet dont count for anything without work,lots and lots of hard work.

ali.c

Hanley is a competitive powerlifter who holds national records for his sport. Of course he is going to get away with more than your average joe in terms of diet. Meh its a tea spoon of sugar mini mars bar not a kg of sugar and a king size mars bar!!

Not being bad but since you are so commited to the approach you are using why are you asking questions and then dismissing everyones opinions out of hand?

How long have you been following the body for life plan? Its alot easier to eat well for a couple of weeks than a year or more. You need to chill out and maybe accept that whilst no-ones diet is perfect when they give their opinion it is from personal experience of walking the road that you are just beginning!

juanveron45

Degsy wrote:

"Genetics" and diet dont count for anything without work,lots and lots of hard work.

Hard work doesn't count for anything without a proper diet

nesf

juanveron45 wrote:

Hard work doesn't count for anything without a proper diet

Depends totally on your goals, body type and what a "proper diet" means tbh.

Smellyirishman

Great genetics.
Great diet.
Great work ethic.

Individually, they all count for something and it's better to have one than to have none. Of course, combine them and you're away. Sorry, that was just kind of bothering me.

Boru.

juanveron45 wrote:

Hard work doesn't count for anything without a proper diet

You know, I though that too. But then I sat down and did some research and you know what, it just doesn't back it up, which shocked me. For years I was telling people day in day out that your phsyique was 85% diet - that muscles were built at the kitchen table and that weight loss was a product of precise food choices.

I'm going to hold up my hands here and say this just once - I was worng. It's the other way around - your training stimulous produces 95% of your results - HOWEVER the vast majority of people DO NOT train with full intensity thus they do not produce sufficent stimlous to derive the maximum benefit from their training program. As such diet takes on a more important role as without proper stimulation they must compensate with reduced calories and over consumption of protein.

I've tested all of this over the last 6 months, and I have found conclusively that an intesne stimulous produces results regardless and even in spite of your diet. I even went so far as to reduce my calories below 1000 a day - literally starving myself and continued to train - I added muscle and got stronger DESPITE being on a severe calorie deficit. Its hould be noted I don;t recoemmend this - it was done soely to test the conclusions of a recent Harvard study that claimed one could add muscle even with a very negative calorific intake provided one maximally stimulated the muscles.

Furthermore several studies have now show conclusively that in order tos upport positive muscle growth you don.t need to take in huge extra amounts of protein. For instance if you were aiming to add on say 10lbs of rock solid pure lean muscle tissue you would only need to take in an additional 6,000 kcal of protein a year - not a week - a year. That's it. That works out close to 16kcal a day (above your maintanence calories).

The bottom line for me is this - train VERY VERY VERY HARD, with as much intensity as possible. Rest and recover adequatley - then once you have these 2 aspects down, look at your nutrition.

Spend more time on your training and less time talking about minor details of a diet that fundamentaly isn't important if you aren't doing the training necessary.:)

LegacyUser

JuanVeron,

Let's not beat around the bush, your a big man. You know your a big man. You have a lot of extra meat hanging off you. You should not be so opinionated about what you are doing because quite frankly, it's not inspirational and it's bull****, if you were 10% bodyfat and cut like a mackerel, you may have a point but your not, so in my eyes, you have no point.

You can't start telling Hanley what he is or is not doing right because, that's just wrong and while his diet may not be perfect all the time, he can afford to eat that because he is in good shape and is achieving his goals, do you honestly think he got like that eating **** every day?

Secondly, I was not even tubby when I joined a gym, I was actually in above average shape, didn't work out but wasn't chubby, call it good genes or whatever, but basically, I went on a 98% clean diet for at least 6 months to get to the state I am at now, and cheat days or "Free days" as you so passionately go on about did not even enter my mind because I felt I was not at my goals which originally was to be the same shape as Cristiano Ronaldo about two years ago or so and when I got to 12 stone and 10% bodyfat I was delighted I reached my goal and I reached it by breaking my balls down the gym 4 sometimes 5 days a week and I was happy. I don't think cheat days should be entering your mind yet because you still have a lot of work to do to reach your goals I believe, personally I was so motivated and determined to reach my goals, I would eat 110% perfectly to ensure this.

Only recently, I felt guilty for not doing as much cardio as I liked, I was kind of praying I put on some bad weight for me to force myself onto the treadmill to lose it again...but hey that's just me.

My point is this, don't question the people who are in great shape and competing on this board, learn from them and use their information to help you reach your goals.

Leon11

speaking of work outs and the intensity. I thought I trained hard in the gym.

Until today when I went through a 50minute workout with one of my mates. He's where I want to be strength wise.

Do not kid yourself in the gym, if you want results work your balls off, I fooled myself before, never again.

Hanley

juanveron45 wrote:

Hard work doesn't count for anything without a proper diet

Really??

Damnit. I guess all that hard work I'm doing is useless then?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL_dl4w52XM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPFEKCStTGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZICFp4xxoE

PeakOutput

think i see that last big mac just waiting to get chiselled out

only messing with you man great physique congrats on everything

Boru.

Hanley, I love it when you pat the plates on the deadlift. So when are you going to come and train with me and lift some real weight ?

ali.c

Just a couple of quick questions if thats okay boru and Hanley?

1. Boru when you said that you lowered your kcals to 1000 and made gains i am assuming that purely by the laws of biology this isnt something that can be continued indefinately? so there is a point when nutrition comes into play?

2. Does it not take a while to prepare your body for the type of intensity you guys are taking about? Like when i workout i work hard (its not pretty) i make sure each set i do i give as much as my muscles have to give but my muscles max out. I had to give up even trying to hold a hairdryer afterward. but i am assuming that even though i give 100% its not really the same level of intensity yous are talking about? So for a newbie starting out then surely having a good clean diet is a good place to start? and would it not help with the recovery aspect? I am not doubting anything that yous are saying btw, I am just confused as too how applicable this is to us newbies.

Ali

Brown_Eyed_Girl

About 15 years ago I started a diet allowing myself 1 cheat day a week, and yeah it worked I lost weight the cheat day didnt have much influence on the overall picture ............... BUT

I ended up putting all the weight I lost back on I think due to the fact that I didnt really change my overall eating habits to a better eating plan I spent the week looking forward to the cheat day and eating crap and spending most of the rest of the week trying to compensate for that one day, bringing my cals waaaaaaaaaaay down which we know now isnt good :mad:

My advice to you is not to have a cheat day as such but a cheat meal or two and if you really stick to the healthy eating plan you will honestly get to a point where you dont want a cheat meal ............. well most of ths time

STOP TALKING ABOUT IT AND GET GOING

LegacyUser

It's about effort and application, if your going to the gym, and your not out of breath or sweating, your doing something wrong...

Malteaser!

Even for a bulking diet, that diet is too dirty.sugar and mars bar for breakfast,fried chicken,ben and jerrys,buttered popcorn,chocolate brownie and no essential fats or a veg in sight.And you were saying one cheat day a weekis bad, your having one everyday man

i think that's the point he was trying to make, that he doesn't eat cleanly yet he can lift and look like most people could only ever imagine, that in fact, it's all down to the hard work you put in in the gym!!

Fair enough, he probably has good genetics but imagine what he could achieve with a better diet

i really hate that geneitcs argument, especially when you've never met the person or even seen them! it's like you're just too unwilling to accept that what he's saying might be true so you make the excuse that genetics must be the reason. Let me assure you that hanley was not blessed with amazing genetics, that allow to him to eat whatever the hell he wants, every single thing that he has achived has been through nothing but busting his ass in the gym.

Hard work doesn't count for anything without a proper diet

what are you basing that on??

Secondly, I was not even tubby when I joined a gym, I was actually in above average shape, didn't work out but wasn't chubby, call it good genes or whatever, but basically, I went on a 98% clean diet for at least 6 months to get to the state I am at now, and cheat days or "Free days" as you so passionately go on about did not even enter my mind because I felt I was not at my goals which originally was to be the same shape as Cristiano Ronaldo about two years ago or so and when I got to 12 stone and 10% bodyfat I was delighted I reached my goal and I reached it by breaking my balls down the gym 4 sometimes 5 days a week and I was happy. I don't think cheat days should be entering your mind yet because you still have a lot of work to do to reach your goals I believe, personally I was so motivated and determined to reach my goals, I would eat 110% perfectly to ensure this.

i was in a similar position there a while back, i had an idea of what i wanted to look like in my head and there was no way i was letting a cheat meal get in my way of getting me there sooner! The thought of them didn't even come into my head coz i was so effin driven and determined to get to where i wanted!

2. Does it not take a while to prepare your body for the type of intensity you guys are taking about? Like when i workout i work hard (its not pretty) i make sure each set i do i give as much as my muscles have to give but my muscles max out. I had to give up even trying to hold a hairdryer afterward. but i am assuming that even though i give 100% its not really the same level of intensity yous are talking about? So for a newbie starting out then surely having a good clean diet is a good place to start? and would it not help with the recovery aspect? I am not doubting anything that yous are saying btw, I am just confused as too how applicable this is to us newbies.

Ali, when i started this whole weightlifting buzz(not very long ago as you know) i had a perfectly clean diet, but tbh that's gone totally out the window since I started, nowadays, i eat pretty much the same amount of crap as Hanley yet i've literally lost inches from every part of my body! it really is unbelievable, i don't think i i would have believed it if i wasn't doing it myself! As for the recovery aspect, I feel fine, I'll let Ham answer that one though coz i really amn't sure. I'm just telling ya what I've experienced!!

JuanVeron, i don't think hanley et al are suggesting to you that you throw your diet plan away and just focus on busting your ass in the gym, obvioulsy diet is important for someone who isn't prepared to do that, but the over analysis of every tiny detail really is not neccessary.

I"m not trying to be a parrot of everyone else in the thread but it's true, the only thing that separates you from the likes of Hanley is HARD WORK, he wasn't blessed with amazing genetics, he doesn't have an amazing diet but he more than makes up for it in the gym! You need to ask yourself how much do you want this? You'll notice that Hanley never ever posts in his journal that he didn't have time to go to the gym today, or that he didn't get enough sleep the night before, or that his diet wasn't that perfect today and thats why he underperformed or isn't getting what he wants. He doesn't make excuses, ever, he wants to be the best at what he does and nothing in this world is going to stop him. I know for a fact that he doesn't have the time to go to the gym most days but i've seen first hand the sacrifices that he's prepared to make to get in there. you really need to ask yourself how much do you want this, because if it's as much as you're making out then you really have to stop with the excuses.

Dragan

In my experience you can be loose when you are putting the work in in the gym.

Last year I used to think that I trained hard, this year I know for a fact that the me who trains in the gym would bury the me of last year. It's called upping the intensity, upping the workload, upping whatever you want to call it.

I imagine that at every point in our training we feel that we are working hard, and then someone from the next level up comes along and shows us what hard work is really like. Eventually, no matter who you are, you get the point where you feel like you are working hard, but you are really just coasting.

IF you TRULY are working hard, then yeah, you can get away with certain dietary slips. Two weeks ago I trained 5 days. 3 days of tough intense circuits and 2 days of power driven weights workouts. Most evenings I finished up my day with something nice, one particular evening was spent hammering 32 Oreo cookies and a litre of milk.

I lost 2lbs that week.

The thing is you have to operate within your limits. IF you’re the type who can't eat a lot of bad stuff and lose adipose well then tough ****. IF you’re the type who finds it hard to put on muscle then tough ****. If you’re the type who "hates cardio" then tough ****.

The take home message is do what needs doing and stop making ****ing excuses. We all do what we need to do, some people might be perceived to "get away" with more than others but I can pretty much gurantee that any one who looks at them that way would never survive one of their workouts.

Money Shot

juanveron45 wrote:

Currently I am eating 6 small very clean meals 6 days a week , nothing thats goes into my mouth on those 6 days is unauthorised every morsel of food is to help me reach my goal

Also I workout intensely 6 days a week rotating cardio with weights

I have also decided to give up alcohol for 12 weeks even on cheat days, which for me will be a challenge.

Now if Im doing on those things, I think one day a week of eating what I want wont do my progress any harm

Again, don't want to come across like I'm getting at you, it's just some of your posts confuse me. If your as dedicated as you seem to suggest above, it's surprising that you would be posting a thread 2 weeks ago looking for somewhere to go for pints and a good steak.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055094922&referrerid=&highlight=

Also, you have been dishing out advice on this forum since last october, well copying and pasting anyway..
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055002782&referrerid=&highlight=
If thats the case, and those pictures above are fairly recent, I think it's fair to deduce that either a) you don't practice what you preach or b) what you are doing isn't working terribly well.

I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, but it seems to me that you are the kind of person that talks about doing lots of things, but actually does very little.

Why don't you keep a log of your progress - at least other people can help try and keep you motivated ?

Degsy

Money Shot wrote:

Also, you have been dishing out advice on this forum since last october, well copying and pasting anyway..
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055002782&referrerid=&highlight=

I've seen that list a couple of times before elsewhere..it sticks in my mind because it says that salmon and trout are oily fish,which they aint.

Malteaser!

Money Shot wrote:

If your as dedicated as you seem to suggest above, it's surprising that you would be posting a thread 2 weeks ago looking for somewhere to go for pints and a good steak.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055094922&referrerid=&highlight=

He clearly was posting it so he'd have somehwhere nice to go on his 'freeday'!!

juanveron45

some people are really contidicting themselves here, they are saying one cheat day a week will halt my progress even if 6 days are clean but on the other hand they are saying that a clean diet isnt the most important as long as you train hard

What boru said was rubbish, diet is the major factor not training.I mean you train 1-2 hours a day you have to manage what you eat or dont eat the other 23 hours

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ali.c

Boru has some unorthodox views on training alright BUT they are all backed up by research and studies. He is a professional PT and takes the time to post his (very valuable IMO) thoughts and ideas here. So even if you dont agree with him, he does know what he is talking about and has results to back up his points, so its not rubbish!!.

Right so people are saying if you train hard you can get away with more with your diet. Makes sense IMO, but you need to decide whats the most important thing for you.

Personally in my experience uping my protein and cleaning my diet has lead to massive gains in strength and energy and i just generally feel better, so what these guys are saying isnt really applicable to me because the way i eat is working for me, no point in changing it if its not broken. There is no one size fits all approach to fitness, its important to question the information and work out whats applicable to you and whats not.

Well you were always going to use the freeday, and why not? How much can it really hamper your progress, well that it depends on what you eat that day. Dont worry about it, its alot better than what you were doing before, so eat well and train hard and the results will come.

Money Shot

I think the problem is that Boru can back up what he says by the fact that he has actually done it and has gotten results or no results because of what he has tried.

Training is not an exact science, and people can be very individual in how they see results. Only by trying different things can you say what works best for yourself.

I really don't think anyone is saying diet isn't important, but I think they are saying you don't have to be anal about it to see decent results. My diet aint the best a lot of the time, despite my efforts, but I have always managed to say in decent shape because I have always put the work in training.

Why don't you post an updated picture and we can all judge how your 'every morsel accounted for' diet and six day training regime is working for you.

t-ha

This whole thread is ridiculous - as general advice to anyone I would say that if what you're doing is working then fine. If it's not then start making changes until you find what does work. Simple.

As for diet v's training, there is no argument. It's a two part equation. If you bust your balls consistently you can eat alot of crap and still look "good". If you don't want to put your body through that then your diet would have to be very good, though not neccessarily perfect (i.e. if I was working out just for health/longevity/to be a little fitter/etc. I would not train as hard as I do - serious athletes get injuries/arthritis/tendonitis etc. but it's that 'live a day like a lion or a hundred like a sheep' choice that we all have to make).

Both training AND diet have an effect on your physique and that is unquestionable, but neither have to be particularly complicated. If you spend some time for a month or two as a beginner figuring out the basics of how much & how you need to eat to support your training then you shouldn't have to give it much thought after that. Just keep eating and listening to your body.

LegacyUser

juanveron45 wrote:

some people are really contidicting themselves here, they are saying one cheat day a week will halt my progress even if 6 days are clean but on the other hand they are saying that a clean diet isnt the most important as long as you train hard

What boru said was rubbish, diet is the major factor not training.I mean you train 1-2 hours a day you have to manage what you eat or dont eat the other 23 hours

The general feeling is if you are in good shape already, obviously you can get away with more cheat days, but if you are not in good shape, you would make better progress eating 100% clean...

Kinetic^

juanveron45 wrote:

some people are really contidicting themselves here, they are saying one cheat day a week will halt my progress even if 6 days are clean but on the other hand they are saying that a clean diet isnt the most important as long as you train hard

What boru said was rubbish, diet is the major factor not training.I mean you train 1-2 hours a day you have to manage what you eat or dont eat the other 23 hours

What Boru said was not rubbish, if you change your diet to a good one without exercising you will lose weight.

Curious.......are you willing to accept any of the advice or keep coming back with more hurdles to jump? These people that are offering you advice are either experienced people in the field of lifting/exercise or are qualified to tell you what's good for you yet you keep brushing their opinions of.

Read T-ha's post below, it sums it up.

Mods, I agree with T-ha that this thread is rubbish at this stage. Possible closure?

Beelzebub

Degsy wrote:

I've seen that list a couple of times before elsewhere..it sticks in my mind because it says that salmon and trout are oily fish,which they aint.

Salmon and trout are oily fish!

Dragan

This thread is going no where fast.

Everything has been outlined already but here's a summary.

If what you are doing is not working for you then change it. Argueing the diet/the gym is everything and being in poor shape while doing so leaves your arguement null and void.

Train intelligently, train with honesty and train in a way that helps you. It is pointless looking at others and saying "Well they do x,y and z so i will to" getting no results and sticking to it.

The one thing i hate is excuses, and thats all i'm seeing here.