Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

mike65

Hey if Manchester United Bucaneers and Aresnal can have one why not the best club in Europe?!

Lastest transfere that sounds plausible but is prolly tosh is Essien in part swap deal with Baros to/from Lyon.

Figo name still knocking around, Mark Gonzalez of Albacete, who is very highly rated winger looks like possible target on a loan to buy deal. Apparently Rafa was interested in January but he got badly injured.

Mike.

Johnny_the_fox

Kily Gonzalez and Steed Malbranque have been linked.

I would love to see Steed Malbranque at Liverpool. he would offer us something special down the right.


Possible Out goings:

Biscan looks set to join Fenerbahce
Salif Diao set to join Lens. (thank god)

mike65

Looks like Diouf has signed a 4 yr deal with Bolton

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldFootballNews&storyID=URI:urn:newsml:reuters.com:20050614:MTFH55141_2005-06-14_17-39-10_L14070912:1

Mike.

PiE

Thank feck for that, any idea of the transfer fee?

TwoShedsJackson

4 million quid is the figure listed on BBC website.

Dub13

4 million...whats that about a 8 million hit (i think we paid 12),just think that season for around that money we could have had Duff...

ianomccabe

we should be happy with four million to be honest

Big Nelly

Dub13 wrote:

4 million...whats that about a 8 million hit (i think we paid 12),just think that season for around that money we could have had Duff...

Paided 10mil for him....4 million is good seeing as he isnt the greatest goal scorer and has constant problems with spitting at anything within a 5 yard radius!!

~Rebel~

I bet Diouf is gonna be class at Bolton. Even though he is a scumbag, he's definately a talent, was just used horribly badly with heskey (!?!) picked ahead of him and him on the right wing. Remember screaming "He's a Striker!!!" at the tv every time a saw the teamsheet.
Still though better rid of him, more hassle then he's worth and noway he'd fit back in, said some nasty things about the dressing room after he left.

Just had a bit of an emiphany - could sign Gonzalez (out for 6 months with cruciate ligament damage) on loan, and also figo for a year to cover, will know by end of season if gonzalez is as good as rafa thinks (he seems to love the guy) so that would solve the right sided problem both now and for future hopefully.

redspider

Big Nelly wrote:

Paided 10mil for him....4 million is good seeing as he isnt the greatest goal scorer

Agreed. 4m in the current market, a different market than when he was bought, is reasonable, given his problems, etc, which have clearky under-valued him to some extent. He is still a good player imo, but not of a good enough standard for where Liverpool should be aiming at and his career has probably peaked.

Btw, what's the story with Crouch? I am not in favour of getting in such a player as his style may suit the premiership perhaps, but its hardly top-level football imo. He is fine for a mid-table team but I dont think he is good neough for a top-3 team, so why is Benitez after him? hmmmmm

respider

Bannor

There's a theory that the public interest in Crouch is just to get Feyenoord to do a deal for Kuyt.

yom 1

any other info on players in talks with the pool bannor

Bannor

Pablo Garcia chose to stay in Spain and join Real Madrid instead of a move to Liverpool. Benitez is now looking for another animal/enforcer/leg breaker/body guard for midfield to look after Luis Garcia and Xabi Alonso.

uberwolf

this bites IMO, if his only motivation is financial then he hasn't the desire neccessary for Liverpool.
_____________

Liverpool are seeking to sign Portuguese international Luis Figo from Real Madrid, according to a Qatari club that is also chasing the striker.

Ali Al Noaimi, the chairman of the Al Rayyan club, said he was involved in a bidding war with Liverpool for the 32-year-old.

Figo has spent the last five years in Madrid, but has expressed an interest in moving to the Premiership.

However, Al Rayyan said they were confident that they could offer the player more wages that would be available at Anfield.

RE*AC*TOR

well if rafa has a bit of cop on he won't raise his offer one cent.
he can go play in qatar if he wants to get a load of money. Or if he actually wants to have a respectable football career - he can choose liverpool.

Hydromonkey

Any word on the Aimar and Saviola rumours currently circulating Bannor?

DamoRed

If Figo is looking for money, he knows where he can go.

Rafa will leave him under no illusions about that. He will tell him that he's looking for players with commitment and passion as well as ability. He will not stand for whinging antics from an old hack. If he comes to Liverpool, it will be to give his all, otherwise, no deal. I believe Rafa has the respect of everyone in the game and nobody would have the temerity to try pull the wool over his eyes. If Figo has the hunger for football that he claims, then he'd be a valuable acquisition. But not if he's going to be smelling the grass every couple of minutes. We had Heskey do that for long enough, but for a different reason admittedly.


Damo

spockety

The amount of players we are being linked with is unbelievable..
But not only that, the amount of players or teams who's agents and managers are admitting have been approached by Liverpool is also quite surprising.

It's doing my head in, wish all the signings would just bloody happen and next season rolls around!!

Bannor

uberwolf wrote:

this bites IMO, if his only motivation is financial then he hasn't the desire neccessary for Liverpool.
_____________

Liverpool are seeking to sign Portuguese international Luis Figo from Real Madrid, according to a Qatari club that is also chasing the striker.

Ali Al Noaimi, the chairman of the Al Rayyan club, said he was involved in a bidding war with Liverpool for the 32-year-old.

Figo has spent the last five years in Madrid, but has expressed an interest in moving to the Premiership.

However, Al Rayyan said they were confident that they could offer the player more wages that would be available at Anfield.

There is no bidding war as such. Figo was told that he could go on a free this summer, he agreed a deal with Liverpool. Then Madrid made it known through agents that he was available and sparked interest from several other clubs and decided they are going to charge a fee for the player. Figo has told Benitez that he wants to join Liverpool. Madrid want money for the player and the only club that is offering money is in Qatar. It's a matter of whether Perez is willing to pay the player to sit on his arse for the last season of his contract or let him leave now for nothing.

Bannor

spockety wrote:

The amount of players we are being linked with is unbelievable..

It's amazing what winning the Champions League does for a club's profile. Liverpool's name is being used by a lot of players/agents to get what they want from clubs.

Big Nelly

Cant see Figo going to Quatar....has only just come out of international retirement to play again with National team in the next WC.....cant see him getting a game if he is playing in Quatar....prob just using Quatar by agents to get more money for themselves and Figo!!!

redspider

Bannor wrote:

There's a theory that the public interest in Crouch is just to get Feyenoord to do a deal for Kuyt.

Thanks Bannor.

That positioning makes some sense. There's a lot of posturing, phone-calls and wheeling dealing going on. Its funny how this off-the-field skirmish will have a big affect on the teams next season. I hope that Benitez and his back-room team and the Liverpool staff do well, get some quality and dont get skinned on transfer fees or wages.

Its a busy time for you Bannor.

DamoRed

Liverpool are in the driving seat with regards to who signs and on what terms. Nobody is going to come here for an easy ride. Rafa and his team are very astute when it comes to knowing what they want. And with the power they now hold, they will be nobody's fall guys. Greedy players, greedy agents, greedy clubs, can look elsewhere!


Damo

mada999

i'd love if we signed ballack he's pure class.....had a dream ages ago that gerrard went to madrid and we got figo hope it doesn't come through!
Figo I think is too old! I hope Morientes is better next season too...

woodyg

were cryin out for 5 players at least for next year to bring the team up to the standard to challenge for the title next year.

a goal keeper, I.E Reina

a left back, any 1 better than jimmy

a center back, Gabriel Milito from real zaragoza

a right side midfield player, aimar

a striker, hard to find at good price but would need to be a 20 goal a season

Kuyt looks a real prospect and maybe ballack if we get some luck.

tem next year

Reina

Finan Carragher Milito Evra

Aimar Gerrard Alonso Reise

Kuyt Cisse
(Ballack)

~Rebel~

??? ^^^ Ballack is a midfielder...

On another note, that Gonzalez guy Rafa really wants that got injured. Rafa looks like he may still try and get him on some form of loan deal to be sure he recovers from injury and then buy if he does. Thats some serious desire for a player! I was a bit dubious myself, worried bout another nunez or something, but was watching a top 20goals from the continent thing yesterday on Eurosport and he was in there twice with 2 spectacular goals cutting in from right wing so could well be an answer if thats anything to go by. 1 of them got Number 3 in the countdown.

eirebhoy

~Rebel~ wrote:

??? ^^^ Ballack is a midfielder...

Midfielder by name but just as much as forward as the likes of Lampard and Ronaldinho. Actually, probably more attacking than them.

woodyg

Ballack is the most attacking midfielder there is. 25 goals for germany and was top scorer for bayern in his first season and i think he was second top scorer for them this behind mackay.

Would play him behind a front man either cisse or kuyt.

The interest in Gonzalez is buildin and we could end up in a bidding war with barca and madrid.

Jivin Turkey

eirebhoy wrote:

Midfielder by name but just as much as forward as the likes of Lampard and Ronaldinho. Actually, probably more attacking than them.

Yeah he has a serious desire to not defend. He would be perfect in the position behind the striker.

And if Liverpool intend on continuing to play one up front next year it will be Morientes all the time (from the current squad).

woodyg

Not sure about Fernando the lack of pace makes it difficult for him up top on his own. With a good pre season behind him he could turn in to our own version of sheringham.

Jivin Turkey

woodyg wrote:

Not sure about Fernando the lack of pace makes it difficult for him up top on his own. With a good pre season behind him he could turn in to our own version of sheringham.

I shudder at the thought of Cisse playing up front on his own, and us lumping balls for him to chase.

If you want a play to play up front on his own he needs to be able to hold the ball up and most of all be intelligent. Two qualities that Cisse lacks, and Morientes has in abundance.

TheMonster

As a a matter of interest who do Liverpool see as scoring their goals next season - there aint a lot of goalscorers in the squad especially if Baros leaves. Morientes or Cisse son't seem prolific enough

Bannor

The stumbling block with the transfers is teams are hiking up prices. Examples:

Reina - deal was agreed with Villareal months ago now the club are refusing to sell at the agreed price and are trying to get other clubs interested. Man Utd tried to hijack the deal but the player told them to feck off.

Milito - An enquiry was made about the player. Zaragoza said talk to the player and then we'll discuss the fee. Milito agreed terms and the clubs agreed a fee, now they want €30M because that's what's in the clause of his contract.

Pablo Garcia - a fee of €6M was agreed for the player with Osasuna, a contract was offered to the player. Then the club started touting the player to other clubs and Real Madrid made an offer believed to be €7.5M - the club accepted Real's offer but the contract offered is less than half the value of that offered by Liverpool. As far as the club are concerned he is going to Madrid and Rafa is looking alsewhere. It'll be interesting if the player says no to the Madrid offer.

Figo - free transfer agreed, now Madrid want €6M for the player.

Kuyt - there was an agreed part exchange deal of Dudek plus €9M, then Feyenoord said they don't want Dudek as part of the deal and want €15M for the player.

Johnson - everything was agreed in January. A couple of weeks ago Crystal Palace decided the player was worth £12M insted of the £6M on offer.

Benitez won't be held to ransom for any transfer - himself and Pako have a valuation of every transfer target in mind and they'll stick to it.

woodyg

i cant argue with that. Cisse has got to improve his awarness and touch.

Was reading the interview with Raffa on www.liverpoolfc.tv he seems to be indicating it will be Fernando and Cisse up top which at the moment is our strongest option.

I really like the way Raffa is going out to try get players in the mold of Jammie Carragher i.e heart for the battle dirtimination and ability.

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

As a a matter of interest who do Liverpool see as scoring their goals next season - there aint a lot of goalscorers in the squad especially if Baros leaves. Morientes or Cisse son't seem prolific enough

Morientes or Cisse only started about 20 games between them in the Premiership last year, so its good to see you are using your patented "I have a chip on my shoulder against Liverpool" logic. Its far too early to judge either.

Both players have proven goals scoring track records.

Liverpool have also been interested in Dirk Kuyt, another player with a good goal scoring record, domestically and internationally (all be it a short international career).

They also have plenty of midfielders that get goals, Garcia, Gerrard, Alonso, Riise and even Kewell has a good record.

But most importantly Liverpool didnt have too many problems scoring goals last year, they only scored six less than United who have an embarassment of riches when it comes to strikers. Just goes to show that lots of strikers doesnt mean lots of goals.

PHB

Morientes has never imo had a prolific goal scoring record, he scores in big games and places where it counts.

Cisse on the other hand I think is gona have about a 15+ season next year.

Liverpool scored way too few goals last year, as did Man United.
Their defensive record isn't good enough and won't be good enough.

So basically their defense snor attack is good enough to challenge.
Arsenal had the attack this year, United had the defense, Chelsea had both.
You gotta get one.
That said however, I think to get a Chelsea quality defense you'd need 4 players.
But to get the attack right, I think one quality AMC and a Winger and you'd be able to score 60/70 goals a season, which would give ya a shot.

----

p.s.

CL win seems to be a bit of a killer.
Rafa seemed to be interested in players of somewhat 'unknown' quality, i.e. impressive players who aren't big names.
He was going to get them anyway, and didn't need the lure of CL Football or CL winners.
Now cause they won, they are the champions of europe, and thus expected to pay big money for a player.
Kinda funny

SteM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

But most importantly Liverpool didnt have too many problems scoring goals last year, they only scored six less than United who have an embarassment of riches when it comes to strikers. Just goes to show that lots of strikers doesnt mean lots of goals.

But everone said that United's problem last year was that they didn't score enough goals? You're saying they (Liverpool) only scored 6 less than a team that in most peoples opinions performed very poorly in front of goal

On your other point, I do think that a Morientes/Cisse partnership should be given a chance next season, but they'll need to get a quality third striker in if only to challange for a place to keep the others on their toes. The jurys still out on Cisse for me.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Morientes has never imo had a prolific goal scoring record, he scores in big games and places where it counts.

Morientes' record at international level is "prolific". He has also scored c.20 goals in any season where he has been a regular starter.

SteM wrote:

But everone said that United's problem last year was that they didn't score enough goals? You're saying they (Liverpool) only scored 6 less than a team that in most peoples opinions performed very poorly in front of goal

Im a firm believer that to win the league it is better to have a strong defense than a strong attack. I think ultimately Liverpool under Benetiz will be a team with a solid defence rather than a team that scores lots of goals.

If Liverpool score 65 next year (only 13 more than this year) and keep it tighter at the back they will do a lot better. I dont see scoring those extra goals as their problem seeing as Cisse and Alonso will be back, Morientes and Garcia should be fully settled, Gerrard will be fully settled, and thats before any new signings are taken into account.

Id rather see them sign two new defenders than attacking players (although if Baros leaves they obviously need extra cover).

SteM wrote:

On your other point, I do think that a Morientes/Cisse partnership should be given a chance next season, but they'll need to get a quality third striker in if only to challange for a place to keep the others on their toes. The jurys still out on Cisse for me.

I agree with all points.

woodyg

Yea we just didnt score enough goals last year but people have to look a little deeper to find out the reasons. cisse broken leg, fernando wasn't fit when he arrived, baros has hamstrings as fragile as darren "sicknote" anderton, gerrard out for 3 and half months alonso out for over 3 months (lampard mistaking his ankle for the ball :mad: ).

When you take in to account these situations and the fact that our top scorer for the past 4 seasons or so left us in the lurch.

We didnt do to bad in front of goal, but an improvement is needed.

redspider

Bannor wrote:

The stumbling block with the transfers is teams are hiking up prices. ... Figo - free transfer agreed, now Madrid want €6M for the player. Kuyt - exchange deal plus €9M, now want €15M [no exchange]
Johnson - £12M now insted of the £6M
Benitez won't be held to ransom for any transfer

Winning the CL and perceived to have money is a problem for Liverpool when it comes to transfers. This is the "CL premium", so on the one hand the club gets more money in, but everyone will be looking to get as much money from Liverpool as they can in this "free for all" market. There is in effect now a Liverpool premium, just as there is a Chelsea premium. Its a strange marketplace.

Whilst Benitez may want to stick to his guns and valuations, in practice if he and Liverpool want to sign anybody, then they will have to more than likely pay over the odds. This I think will mean that Liverpool may not sign that many players after all. Baros probably wont be sold until a replacement player purchase is sealed. Maybe Owen will come back after all!

I am not happy with Morientes on his physical attributes and effort and my fear is that will barely improve next year. Cisse who is fit does not have delicate ball control and expertise on the ball, he is a physical player. Liverpool will have to play 2 in attack at home, and if Benitez has any sense, he will have to play 2 up front in most of the away matches as well.

Thank god that Gerrard is staying.

Btw, here is what was reported on the liverpoolfc.tv website:


+++
Benitez is currently weighing up his options as he looks to strengthen in time for next season, but he says he only wants to bring in players who will improve the quality of his Champions League winning squad.

"I want to go to the market thinking about players with passion, as well as ability, then I know that we will do better things in the future," he said.

"My plan is to improve the reserve team for next season, and to have some more players ready for the first team.

"As a big club you need to increase your level to look for the best players in the world, and we are trying to find some players for different positions. But the most important thing is to find skilful players, and players with character.

"If we want to increase our level away from home we need that type of player to suit our style of play.

"You need players like Jamie Carragher, for example, with passion. We are trying to find, if possible, both."

+++

He is hinting about buying players for the reserve team. hmmmm

The other things that in general I am not happy about is the huge dependence on Spanish players. ok, I understand that he has more links and knowledge of those players, but a team of Liverpool's calibre should have equal links with all the markets. Liverpool should be able to source the best players from wherever, South America included. With Houllier we had a lot of France connections, but with Benitez the spanish dependency is even more if anything. And it has failed, with the likes of Nunez, Josemi (not neede as we had Finnan, my stance at the time and I think I have been proven right), Morientes to a certain extent, and even Garcia. Alonso has been the find of the bunch, luckily for us. But Benitez's success rate of good player selection is poor so far, imo.

Redspider

PHB

Alonso and Garcia is quite a good return on a year in the transfer market.
Fergie got Rooney + Heinze this year, and spent more than Liverpool
Mourinho got Robben + Ferrerira + Carvalho this year, spending a hell of a lot more money.

He is doing quite good, and the scouting network's that you think are in place are not in place.
Benetiz needs time to rebuild and set up a huge system of scouts, and in time he can look elsewhere, but until then he is getting the top spanish talent, which is good sicne its making the premiership the place to be, which can only be good for the league

woodyg

Raffa has admitted him self that he does seem to concentrate on the spanish leauge but only becuase he knows it and has the scoutting network and contacts in place there.Its the same with Wegner when he arrived He new the French leauge.

Give it time and he will have built up the scouting network he needs it takes a lot of ground work and time to get a good global network up and running.

But he also needds to keep the success of our youth system going it really is were a club can develop for the long term. We have developed a really successful scouting and coaching system there and it needs to be nurished.

I would like to see Steve Thompson brought back in there in a coaching role.

Bannor

redspider wrote:

Whilst Benitez may want to stick to his guns and valuations, in practice if he and Liverpool want to sign anybody, then they will have to more than likely pay over the odds. This I think will mean that Liverpool may not sign that many players after all.

If there is a deal already agreed then the player is in the position of power.

Morientes wanted to go to Liverpool, Madrid were forced to accept the offer on the table, the alternative was to let the player sit out his contract and leave on a free.

Similarly Figo says he wants to go to Liverpool, Perez wanted rid of him so he was going to be released on a free transfer this summer. Now though Perez wants money for the player. The question is how badly does Perez wants rid of Figo.

The agreed fee for Milito was around £6M (€9M), Zaragoza now want more than three times that.

The reason Benitez is looking at the foreign leagues is that there is value for money to be had. Is Peter Crouch worth £7M? Is Andy Johnson worth £12M? Is Shaun Wright-Phillips worth £17M? Is Ledley King worth £18M? There are cheaper and technically superior alternatives available on the continent. He's primarily looking for players which will have a bit of fight in them so they will be able to look after themselves on the pitch (Milito, Pablo Garcia, the trio from Malaga etc), but quality creative players (Figo, Joaquin, Galetti etc) that can provide ammunition for Morientes are also being looked for.

redspider wrote:

I am not happy with Morientes on his physical attributes and effort and my fear is that will barely improve next year. Cisse who is fit does not have delicate ball control and expertise on the ball, he is a physical player. Liverpool will have to play 2 in attack at home, and if Benitez has any sense, he will have to play 2 up front in most of the away matches as well.

Don't be surprised to see the formation from the second half of the Champions League Final used quite a few times next season. Benitez likes a fluid team that can adapt while on the pitch. 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-4-2 > 4-3-3/4-3-2-1/4-3-1-2 > 3-4-3/3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2.

redspider wrote:

Thank god that Gerrard is staying.

Btw, here is what was reported on the liverpoolfc.tv website:


+++
Benitez is currently weighing up his options as he looks to strengthen in time for next season, but he says he only wants to bring in players who will improve the quality of his Champions League winning squad.

"I want to go to the market thinking about players with passion, as well as ability, then I know that we will do better things in the future," he said.

"My plan is to improve the reserve team for next season, and to have some more players ready for the first team.

"As a big club you need to increase your level to look for the best players in the world, and we are trying to find some players for different positions. But the most important thing is to find skilful players, and players with character.

"If we want to increase our level away from home we need that type of player to suit our style of play.

"You need players like Jamie Carragher, for example, with passion. We are trying to find, if possible, both."

+++

He is hinting about buying players for the reserve team. hmmmm

The other things that in general I am not happy about is the huge dependence on Spanish players. ok, I understand that he has more links and knowledge of those players, but a team of Liverpool's calibre should have equal links with all the markets. Liverpool should be able to source the best players from wherever, South America included. With Houllier we had a lot of France connections, but with Benitez the spanish dependency is even more if anything. And it has failed, with the likes of Nunez, Josemi (not neede as we had Finnan, my stance at the time and I think I have been proven right), Morientes to a certain extent, and even Garcia. Alonso has been the find of the bunch, luckily for us. But Benitez's success rate of good player selection is poor so far, imo.

Redspider

If Gerrard stays it will be on Benitez's terms and not his own. By November of last year Benitez was sick of the Steven Gerrard media circus and was prepared to sell the player this summer. Prior to Gerrard having his change of heart regarding Chelsea earlier this year, Benitez and Parry agreed that he was going to get the Owen treatment this summer - There won't be drawn out negotiations it'll be a simple sign the contract or be sold. SFX have already been talking to Arrigo Saachi and Florentino Perez about a potential contract offer from Madrid - they obviously don't want to get outflanked like what happened to Owen last summer. Liverpool still have an offer from Milan for the player.

The club is looking for players at all levels. The quality of the reserves and under age teams is very low. Rafa and Pako want to be able to rotate the squad - there isn't the quality there to do so and still compete with the top three in the league. That's what he's addressing this summer - not every signing is going to be a world class house hold name. In the past I have been told of players the club are looking at and my first reaction is "who the feck is he?" and it gets a similar reaction if I post it here - no doubt there will be a few of those signed this summer

In defense of his signings so far Alonso, Garcia and Morientes are all quality players. Nunez was signed as part of the Owen transfer only because Morientes was cup tied and removed from the deal and Madrid refused to let Juanfran go. Josemi is a backup/squad player, he wasn't signed as a first choice though he did displace Finnan when he arrived. Pellegrino was never anything more than a backup player who also happened to know Rafa's zonal defending system very well and helped out in training.

woodyg

Milan Baros has given strong hints he wants to stay at Liverpool.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=285208&CPID=8&CLID=&lid=2&title=Baros+to+stay+with+Reds&channel=Football_Home

Dam it :mad: .
We need to of load him and get as much money as possible to buy some one who actually can lift his head and score more often than 1 every other 3 months!

RE*AC*TOR

woodyg wrote:

Milan Baros has given strong hints he wants to stay at Liverpool.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=285208&CPID=8&CLID=&lid=2&title=Baros+to+stay+with+Reds&channel=Football_Home

Dam it :mad: .
We need to of load him and get as much money as possible to buy some one who actually can lift his head and score more often than 1 every other 3 months!

In fairness he has HUGE potential. If he can sort his head out. He could do with taking a page from the Karl-Heinz Riedle book of football.

@Bannor
Interesting points about Nunez/Josemi and Pellegrino.

Bannor

There was a scouting trip to the Brazil v Greece game last night to watch a certain Brazilian who plays for Lyon. The Baros to Lyon deal is not dead yet - he doesn't like what's on offer to him, neither did he like the final offer from Valencia and they moved on.

uberwolf

Real Zaragoza defender Gabriel Milito has stated that he would find it very difficult to say no if Liverpool made a concrete offer for him.

Manchester United and Barcelona were also connected to the player but, if its up to Milito, he is going to Anfield:

"If Liverpool make a concrete offer then it would be very difficult to say no," said Milito.

"I am happy at Zaragoza but it is not every day the champions of Europe are interested in you.

"I has asked my club for a fast solution. They already know my position and I do not want to spend my holidays with doubts on where I will play next season."

LizardKing

Theres an article here
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/06/17/story207554.html

About Guti wanting to leave Real Madrid and play in the Premiership

and theres a picture in the Sun of Gerrard and Guti in Ibiza
http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005271099,00.jpg

The Sun think Stevie might go to Real but maybe Guti could come to Anfield

RE*AC*TOR

Pellegrino gone (teamtalk)

Pellegrino given Reds boot

Argentina defender Mauricio Pellegrino has been released by Liverpool after being told he would not get a new contract.

Pellegrino, 33, rejoined manager Rafael Benitez when he moved from Valencia to Anfield in January 2005 on a short-term deal.

He played 12 games for Liverpool with his last appearance coming against Aston Villa on the final day of the season.

redspider

Good points Bannor ..... here are my thoughts ....

Bannor wrote:

If there is a deal already agreed then the player is in the position of power.

I dont think it is so black and white. Everything is in negotiation until contracts are actually signed. Player power and Club powers shift on many factors, and no party is in a position of complete negotiating power.

Clubs that are purchasing want to get the best players for as little as possible, transfer fee wise and wages wise. Players want to get as much salary and bonuses as possible. Selling Clubs want to get as much transfer fee as possible, for their assets. And Agents will want to weasel out as much for their "services" as possible. And everyone will need to consider the players ability, their age, the length of contract they have at the moment, and their current salary and bonuses.

I'd say in any deal, no single party is 100% delighted. Clubs will be happy to get their man, off-load a player, or whatever. But many players are probably playing at Clubs which would not be their first choice, although they ay be happier than being in the reserves for their 1st choice team. There are limited places.

I realise that you know all of this.

Bannor wrote:

Morientes wanted to go to Liverpool, Madrid were forced to accept the offer on the table, the alternative was to let the player sit out his contract and leave on a free.

I dont think it was so simple as that. Morientes was not doing well in the 1st team and was dropped. Real loaned him out to Monaco, saving 33% on the wage bill (they paid the remainder) and he had a stormer of a year, very motivated. Real indicated that he would come back into the fold and the 1st team, but this didnt materialise and he was de-motivated again and wanted to move. So, Morientes wanted to go and Real wanted to sell him. They basically took the best deal that they could get at the time in the Jan window with a player that was CL-tied. Madrid saved a heap on salary costs, so being forced to accept the deal is not exactly true. It was financially better for them to do so.

I think there is a lot that goes on in negotiations that we dont hear about, until someone writes about it in a book or something.

Bannor wrote:

The reason Benitez is looking at the foreign leagues is that there is value for money to be had. Is Peter Crouch worth £7M? Is Andy Johnson worth £12M? Is Shaun Wright-Phillips worth £17M? Is Ledley King worth £18M? There are cheaper and technically superior alternatives available on the continent.

I agree that the english league tends to over-value its own players. Benitez has to look abroad and I would support that stance, as long as he looks at all leagues (markets as I call them) equally, including south america.

Bannor wrote:

He's primarily looking for players which will have a bit of fight in them so they will be able to look after themselves on the pitch (Milito, Pablo Garcia, the trio from Malaga etc), but quality creative players (Figo, Joaquin, Galetti etc) that can provide ammunition for Morientes are also being looked for.

That would be good, in terms of the fight and determination aspect. We can all learn from the effort that Carragher put in this season, and effort is very important in football. Garcia (for many games) and Morientes (for nearly all games) didnt have the fight though!

Bannor wrote:

Don't be surprised to see the formation from the second half of the Champions League Final used quite a few times next season. Benitez likes a fluid team that can adapt while on the pitch. 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-4-2 > 4-3-3/4-3-2-1/4-3-1-2 > 3-4-3/3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2.

I'll be the first to say that his CL 2nd half formation was radical, but it was a risky one. Liverpool had to do it to get back in the game, but the game could have gone 3-1 or 4-0. I cant see him playing it in the english league tbh. He will need to select a formation that enhances the attributes of the players. Playing 4-5-1 is out for me as we dont have a good enough 1. Baros, who may stay if Benitez cant off-load him as it looks like he wants to, needs another up-front, as does Morientes, and Cisse reallt.

Bannor wrote:

If Gerrard stays it will be on Benitez's terms and not his own. By November of last year Benitez was sick of the Steven Gerrard media circus and was prepared to sell the player this summer. Prior to Gerrard having his change of heart regarding Chelsea earlier this year, Benitez and Parry agreed that he was going to get the Owen treatment this summer - There won't be drawn out negotiations it'll be a simple sign the contract or be sold.

I agree that when the contract term starts running out (less than 2 years), then negotiations have to be complete one way or the other. But Gerrard still had resonable negotiating power, as he was a big asset in valuation yterms potentially and was doing quite good on the field.

Bannor wrote:

SFX have already been talking to Arrigo Saachi and Florentino Perez about a potential contract offer from Madrid - they obviously don't want to get outflanked like what happened to Owen last summer. Liverpool still have an offer from Milan for the player.

SFX? I dont understand ....

Bannor wrote:

The club is looking for players at all levels. The quality of the reserves and under age teams is very low. Rafa and Pako want to be able to rotate the squad - there isn't the quality there to do so and still compete with the top three in the league. That's what he's addressing this summer - not every signing is going to be a world class house hold name. In the past I have been told of players the club are looking at and my first reaction is "who the feck is he?" and it gets a similar reaction if I post it here - no doubt there will be a few of those signed this summer

I agree that all areas can be strengthened. I still like the idea that Barca have and that is build a squad of 1st team 23 players and stick with them. Obviously a long term injury, such as say the Cisse leg break needs to be filled. I am sure there will be plenty of players that I havent heard of. But its important I think that whoever is signed that they add quality. I'd rather spend a bit more to get one player than to spend on 5 cheaply and hope that they blossom into a good player. Either approach can work though. No-one has yet cracked an ideal way to assess new players. Arsenal seem to have given up on big buy purchases and are instead creating a development environment for prospective youths.

Bannor wrote:

In defense of his signings so far Alonso, Garcia and Morientes are all quality players. Nunez was signed as part of the Owen transfer only because Morientes was cup tied and removed from the deal and Madrid refused to let Juanfran go. Josemi is a backup/squad player, he wasn't signed as a first choice though he did displace Finnan when he arrived. Pellegrino was never anything more than a backup player who also happened to know Rafa's zonal defending system very well and helped out in training.

I agree that Alonso is a good player. Whether Benitez just got lucky with him or whehter it was astute judgement I still dont know. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was good judgement.

Morientes has some good touches but he is well past his best before date. People say its fitness but it cant be just down to that. In Real he was good, but then Gravesen is good in that team too. I dont think he is the right type of player for Liverpool. He's ideal for Bolton who specialise in European near-retirees. I fear when I hear Benitez saying that he has big plans for Morientes next year. This is where his over-loyalty for all things from Spain nay be an achilles heel. It certainly was last year with Pellegrino, who cost us the 4th place last year on his own.

Garcia obviously hs skill, but was found to be wanting in many games for a) keepint the ball and b) distributing it. Also, he is another one of the chosen few for Benitez so gets a great position on the field. Having said all that, he did get his finger out on occasion, in the CL notably, such as the Chelsea match. He had a quiet CL final though, but everyone is allowed an off-day like that!

Nunez has proven to be a waste so far. He is played as a winger yet cant cross the ball or get past defenders. Even if signed as part of the Owen deal, it would have been better to take money instead or to get someone else.

Josemi was not signed as a backup player. He was signed as a 1st team player and given plenty of opportunity to play. Benitez dropped Finnan, which I vehemently claimed was an error, as well as the signing of Josemi.

Pellegrino, again you mention him as a backup player. However, Benitez put him in the 1st team, and when he was found out for pace, he played 5 at the back. This cost Liverpool points, perhaps as many as 6, and the 4th place. A complete disaster for Benitez imo. Even if he did know the zonal system, that was no reason to buy him.

I'll be looking very carefully at Benitez's signings this year. Even if he uses a "random" selection method, he hopefully wont get it as much wrong as the bunch he got in last year imo. Maybe they will all improve, we will see.

Redspider

Bannor

Big post to respond to - I'll be back later to do so.

SFX : Gerrard's agents/representatives.