Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

mike65

He should play against PSV, thats a low pressure game and he should get decent chances against Kromkamp.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Him saying he needs time to settle is a cop out. He doesnt need to settle to stop taking shots from stupid angles and distances with 4 or 5 players in front of him. He doesnt need to settle to stop hitting crosses along the ground. Once you get into positions where you have to cross or make a decision to try and crack a shot through players from 25 yards, the country you happen to be in and the lenght of time your there are irrelevant.

el rabitos

id like to see paletta and agger start against psv, its a good chance to give players champions league experience

theres alot of money to be made with winning champions league games though, so maybe benitez will go full strenght to get some momentum going again

Reganio 2

Right I have to say it has been annoying me especially since saturday. Its Bellamy don't get me wrong I was all for signing him (have his name on the back of my jersy) and I think he could be good if he gets his act together. But any time the ball goes into an attacking position he runs around to try get it, good. But when he dosn't get it or he lays it off and the person misses he goes off like a 6 year old swinging his arms in a huff. It is really getting on my nerves fair enough if he is in a good position and dosn't get the ball but he does it every time whether he is in a good position or not. He needs to get his act together and think of the team.

On a happier note I have been impressed with Agger when he has come on and would like to see him playing centre mid for the game against PSV I believe he would be good there.

~Rebel~

Stekelly wrote:

Him saying he needs time to settle is a cop out. He doesnt need to settle to stop taking shots from stupid angles and distances with 4 or 5 players in front of him. He doesnt need to settle to stop hitting crosses along the ground.

Agree its a copout, but id imagine he was asked about his form or something, so its probably hard to say "this is teh best there is, I aint gettin any better.." Sure even Nunez says he didnt fail at Liverpool.

Once you get into positions where you have to cross or make a decision to try and crack a shot through players from 25 yards, the country you happen to be in and the lenght of time your there are irrelevant.

this is largely why i want him to keep getting his game as these were the things he was doing so well in Spain. Had about a goal every other game there. id say he's just nervous and trying to overimpress with a goal everytime he's on the pitch cause the way Rafa's been playing him, who knows when his next chance will come! I like that he really tries and puts himself about at least.

As Mike said, would play him this week, think id like pennant dropped if garcia is back to full fitness though. Would love to see gerrard central, pennant wide and kuyt forward (with whoever) as those 3 players i think could combine very well creatively with passing and moving around the box (which was severly lacking last weekend, everyone was just so stationary!)

Jivin Turkey

Stekelly wrote:

Him saying he needs time to settle is a cop out. He doesnt need to settle to stop taking shots from stupid angles and distances with 4 or 5 players in front of him. He doesnt need to settle to stop hitting crosses along the ground. Once you get into positions where you have to cross or make a decision to try and crack a shot through players from 25 yards, the country you happen to be in and the lenght of time your there are irrelevant.

Are you trying to suggest that four or five months is enough time for a South American player, not long out of his teens, to settle? That is ridiculous.

Gonzalez has not set the world alight by any means, but he has scored a couple of important goals, to write him off at this stage would be just plain stupid. Particularly considering how long Benitez chased him for. He obviously saw something.

I saw him play for Chile against Ireland, and he was very good in the first half (of an admittedly dour match), but it was no surprise considering he would have been surrounded by players he knew and was comfortable with.

redspider

In terms of Gonzalez, he has shown some qualities so I think we do need to give him more time. I dont think however he is a player that is oozing with potential, but if he does improve he should be a useful part of the squad and capable of playing on the left hand side when needed. Garcia can play there too albeit in a different style, as can Aurelio.

I concur with the frustration some others have mentioned about Bellamy. He does give out after every move when it breaks down. However, we knew that he had such a petulant attitude when we signed him, as he has been doing it all his life, so we are not going to change him now. Other Liverpool players have probably learned to stop listening to him and take his rants with a grain of salt. As long as he doesnt let that negativity escalate, and the team dont let it affect them, then its ok. That's easy when iverpool are winning but more difficult when losing. But it looks like we will just have to live with it.

In terms of his play, I think that he is too often looking to run away, break, and into positions similar to Kuyt. The two of them have been getting in each others way. Bellamy is ideal to play when Liverpool are defending, when there are some open spaces that he can run onto from a long ball from Alonso or Gerrard. Such as games versus Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and away matches in Europe. Bellamy is not having an ideal time at Liverpool, and indeed, many players that were fans of Liverpool when boys/young find that their career does not blossom when they play at Anfield.

The question of Gerrard, central midfield and Benitez. He was played centrally in the last match, he did okay I thought, less productive at going forward perhaps and supporting the strikers, not bristling as he sometimes does, and Liverpool were close on scoring on a few occasions. One that got away perhaps. Many eyes will be waiting to see what happens in the match v PSV for Gerrard.

In terms of the match itself, it is more important than many give credit for, as finishing 1st in the group should, in theory, result in an easier match up in the last 16. A draw in the match and better goal difference perhaps should see Liverpool reach that target. A win would be nicer and may boost some confidenc, especially if there is a Gerrard goal.

Redspider

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Are you trying to suggest that four or five months is enough time for a South American player, not long out of his teens, to settle? That is ridiculous..

It's nothing to do with settling. He's getting in positions but then his crossing and shooting is terrible. It's like saying a guy goes to Italy and gets a peno in his first game, it's ok to miss as he hasnt settled. The language, culture, pace of the game etc, thats fine for im not to get right away, the basics are the same in any league.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Gonzalez has not set the world alight by any means, but he has scored a couple of important goals, to write him off at this stage would be just plain stupid. Particularly considering how long Benitez chased him for. He obviously saw something.

I saw him play for Chile against Ireland, and he was very good in the first half (of an admittedly dour match), but it was no surprise considering he would have been surrounded by players he knew and was comfortable with.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not writing him off by any means. He just has to relax and do the basics right. The rest he can learn and will come in time.

redspider wrote:

I concur with the frustration some others have mentioned about Bellamy. He does give out after every move when it breaks down. However, we knew that he had such a petulant attitude when we signed him, as he has been doing it all his life, so we are not going to change him now.

The only problem is he's not offsetting that by scoring goals aswell. tbh if he was banging in goals, I could care less that he moans for the rest of the game. Henry moans at any pass that isnt bang on to his foot, he does however, score goals.

Stky10

Another Liverpool news aggregator link courtesy of koptalkinsider (http://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com read it its good..)

http://www.lfcpost.com/

mike65

Rafa had indicated he'll play Bellamy against PSV and Garcia should start too.

Mike.

~Rebel~

good stuff!


Glad Garcia will be back, hopefully in place of pennant. The backs might be under an extra bit of pressure but our attack should benefit no end from an extra dimension considering his usual european form. Dont really mind between bellemy and crouch who plays, crouch has been great in champs league so far, but i guess bellemy could really benefit with a run.

Either way I have a great feeling for Kuyt to score! Has a good record against PSV for Feyenord, as well as a great record at Anfield.

zing

More fresh young talent for the club by the looks of it.
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=reds-close-in-on-teen-star%26method=full%26objectid=18137956%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Don't know anything about Insua myself but interesting to note the bit about some at the club reckoning he could be challenging for a first team place by the end of the season.

Stky10

zing wrote:

Don't know anything about Insua myself but interesting to note the bit about some at the club reckoning he could be challenging for a first team place by the end of the season.

Well when the english alternative is Gareth Bale of Southampton, who's supposedly valued at 7m, it begins to look like good business.

We have too many left backs though, I'd very very much doubt he'll be seen till next season minimum unless he's the new maradona or something (in which case he'd be rather wasted playing left back)

~Rebel~

Argentina must have something in the water at the moment! Unbelieveable spate of quality players coming out. Majority of hot prospects at the moment seem to be argentinian. A lot of them quite similer too, Gago, Higuain, Messi, Ruben, Sergio Aguero (Really wish Pool had persued the interest shown in this kid!).

Stky10

~Rebel~ wrote:

Argentina must have something in the water at the moment! Unbelieveable spate of quality players coming out. Majority of hot prospects at the moment seem to be argentinian. A lot of them quite similer too, Gago, Higuain, Messi, Ruben, Sergio Aguero (Really wish Pool had persued the interest shown in this kid!).

This is OT for a liverpool thread.... but anyway..

Well its partly socio-economic and partly coaching. If you look at most of the worlds great players, they were born into relative poverty, they learnt to play the game on the streets, and graduated from there (feels like a Dunphy rant). Not all obviously, apparently Kaka was born into a very middle class family.

The coaching scheme they've got running there means they've won most of the world underage tournaments over the last 10 years or so.

Of the list you mention though I'm not so sure. I saw Gago play in argentina about a year ago now, and while he did well, as a defensive midfielder he could easily get forgotten about in Real Madrid reserves. Messi looks a decent player alright, but by no way the next Maradona like he was supposed to be. Higuain, Ruben, and Aguero are too unknown to be subjective about yet. Aguero did well to move to athletico where he's pretty much guaranteed a starting place, so hopefully Higuain will get good advice and stay away from the likes of Chelsea or Real. I'm not so sure though. He seems to have much greater hype about him for some reason.

Guy:Incognito

zing wrote:

More fresh young talent for the club by the looks of it.
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=reds-close-in-on-teen-star%26method=full%26objectid=18137956%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Don't know anything about Insua myself but interesting to note the bit about some at the club reckoning he could be challenging for a first team place by the end of the season.

He looks like a pikey.

Waster

Rumour has it that it's the same team as last time except for Crouch in for Bellemy. Good oppertunity for Pennant and Gonzalez to show some form in a home game with no pressure on.

zing

Waster wrote:

Rumour has it that it's the same team as last time except for Crouch in for Bellemy. Good oppertunity for Pennant and Gonzalez to show some form in a home game with no pressure on.

Not a rumour anymore. Team selection is usually posted approx 1 hour before ko on liverpoolfc.tv. And yeah same team apart from the one change you mentioned.

Team: Reina, Finnan, Riise, Agger, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso, Gonzalez, Pennant, Crouch, Kuyt.
Subs: Dudek, Hyypia, Bellamy, Fowler, Zenden, Garcia, Paletta.

(from http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N154167061122-1853.htm)

Zapp Brannigan

Do we really need another left back though? We need a good right back, I'm actually hopin Rafa rekindles his interest in Alves!

Is the match tonight not on terrestial, no?

el rabitos

Slurms wrote:

Do we really need another left back though? We need a good right back, I'm actually hopin Rafa rekindles his interest in Alves!

Is the match tonight not on terrestial, no?

alves just signed a new deal at sevilla.

Zapp Brannigan

So? We should still buy him, he's quality!

Oh the match is on Setanta....boo-urns.

el rabitos

Slurms wrote:

So? We should still buy him, he's quality!

Oh the match is on Setanta....boo-urns.

if he wanted to join he wouldnt have signed a new deal at sevilla, it wont happen. pitty though, finnan hasnt been up to much this season.

redspider

First off, I have to say I am DELIGHTED to see Gerrard scoring a goal and playing in the centre midfield for the whole match. If Rafa needed any proof that he was capable of playing there he need look no further than last night's match. More on that shortly.

It was a good result for Liverpool and fully deserved. Reina was barely troubled in the match as PSV came looking for a 0-0 and hoping to sneak something on the break. Alonso went off on 20 mins with a dead leg, Zenden the replacement did reasonably well. Fairly solid at the back with the Carra/Agger combo, much better pace to combat the likes of Kone. Finnan had a good game. Riise was reasonable but himself and Gonzalez have yet to work out good combinations and create good chances. And Crouch and Kuyt are a complementary combination. Pennant, like Gonzalez, was also light.

Liverpool guaranteed top in the group now so a job very well done. Lets hope the draw is kindly on us as, putting a mercenary hat on, progression means money.

In terms of the Gerrard and CM role debate, there have been lots of stats bandied about that when he plays 'wide' right, that Liverpool's results are better. I'm all for using stats as many of you will know, but also for picking holes in them. I think these stats could lead to a mis-leading conclusion. As the team is not the exact same when he is in the centre, typically they would have had a weaker player on the right, such as Kromkamp (last season) and indeed Benitez played Finnan there as well, its not a like-for-like comparison! It was true that when Liverpool played Gerrard at CM, the results were worse, but this was more to do with lack of having someone as good as him on the right. We know about the emergence of Sissoko in CM and Alonso, that they make a formidable pairing, and this selection:

somebody - Sissoko - Alonso - Gerrard

is stronger than both:

somebody - Sissoko - Gerrard - somebody

somebody - Gerrard - Alonso - somebody

So, overall, I think the CM dilemma remains once all 3 players are fit. Rafa has 3 good CM players, but which one is the best to play out right or indeed left. Gerrard clearly is good enough to play right as well, and better than Alonso and Sissoko would be. It is a dilemma for all. If Gerrard wasnt so good the choice for Benitez would be easier.

Another point I'd like to make is couldnt Bellamy play a wide role rather than a striker role? He got a chance to do that last night and its something I've thought about before. He is right footed I understand but can play either side. I think he is better than either Gonzalez or Pennant, so would a Liverpool 1st 11 without Sissoko be:

---

Reina / Dudek

---

Finnan - Carra - Agger - Riise
Garcia - Alonso - Gerrard - Bellamy
---- Kuyt --- Crouch ----

True, Garcia will continue to lose the ball, but with Finnan, Carra, Alonso and Kuyt on his side of the pitch, that could be covered for. Having the pace of Riise, Gerrard, Bellamy on the same side would for me be a good combination, with Crouch as the target man and Kuyt in over the back, far side, for crosses, and Garcia sneaking in too. Another option would be to put Bellamy on the right side and Garcia or Gonzalez on the left.

thoughts ?

Of course the problem starts once Sissoko becomes fit again.
Choices, choices .....

Redspider

The Rooster

Finnan might have had a disappointing start to the season, but I think he's been playing well for the last 3 or 4 weeks. He'd a very good game last night.

Rafa said just yesterday that he wouldnt be playing Bellamy on the wing, that he was much better in the centre. But with the injuries I dont think he has much choice but to give him a run there for a game or two.

I thought Gonzalez was playing very well too yesterday. A shame he got injured. That could considerably slow his progress.

As for Gerrard, I agree with Rafa, that he should only play centre midfield when one of Momo or Xabi are unavailable. However, if one of them is unavailable Stevie should immediately be put in the centre. Zenden should only play centre if 2 of the 3 are unavailable. Assuming Xabi is not ready for Man City, it'll be very interesting to see who our substitutue centre midfielder will be.

gary the great

Question RE- Going to a match

Im thinking of flying into another airport other liverpool (cos the flights are mad expensive) to a match and getting the trian to liverpool, i dunno maybe Newcastle airport. Is this a better idea than paying the astronomical Ryanir prices for matchday flights to liverpool?

Would i be able to get some tickets outside the stadium for cheap enough?

zing

gary the great wrote:

Question RE- Going to a match

Im thinking of flying into another airport other liverpool (cos the flights are mad expensive) to a match and getting the trian to liverpool, i dunno maybe Newcastle airport. Is this a better idea than paying the astronomical Ryanir prices for matchday flights to liverpool?

Would i be able to get some tickets outside the stadium for cheap enough?

Manchester would probably be a lot handier - if Utd are also playing away from home that weekend. I know a few people who regularly use Manchester airport if they can't get cheap flights into Liverpool.

zing

From http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=gerrard-so-proud-of-euro-feat%26method=full%26objectid=18145447%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Rafa Benitez's only headache today regards injuries to Xabi Alonso and Mark Gonzalez. Alonso suffered a dead leg, while Gonzalez tore his hamstring.

Jermaine Pennant, who was also stretchered off, is fine.

So Pennant is fine and Alonso's injury doesn't look as bad as was initially thought. Shame Speedy will be out for a while - thought he was having a decent enough game last night.

I suspect we'll see a a bit more of Aurelio on the left now that Speedy is out of action for a while.

DaBreno

Speaking of the Injured Left, what about Harry Kewell, when is he coming back? At times last season, he could do a good impression of a winger. I was hoping the arrival of Gonzo would be the nessesary kick up the hole he needs to keep him concentrating but then he gets injured. Again. Any news?

gary the great

zing wrote:

Manchester would probably be a lot handier - if Utd are also playing away from home that weekend. I know a few people who regularly use Manchester airport if they can't get cheap flights into Liverpool.

United must be away cos im gettin the flight for 9.99 ex tax!! Nice one for the tip! A 1 hour trip to Liverpool then (anyone know how much this will cost)

Pick up the tix outside the stadium, ive heard il get them cheap for this game.

Stay the night in Liverpool, next day train from Liverpool to Blackpool (1hr 55mins) (anyone got a rough price?) cos the flight from Manchester is 70quid and the blackpool one is 0.01GBP

Thanks for that pointer!

Will be my first time in Anfield, cant wait!

yom 1

gary the great wrote:

United must be away cos im gettin the flight for 9.99 ex tax!! Nice one for the tip! A 1 hour trip to Liverpool then (anyone know how much this will cost)

Pick up the tix outside the stadium, ive heard il get them cheap for this game.

Stay the night in Liverpool, next day train from Liverpool to Blackpool (1hr 55mins) (anyone got a rough price?) cos the flight from Manchester is 70quid and the blackpool one is 0.01GBP

Thanks for that pointer!

Will be my first time in Anfield, cant wait!

I flew to manchester for the bordeaux game. Train takes about 50 mins - I cant remember exactly but think it was bout £12-15 sterling return. Not too expensive. Couldn't tell you about blackpool though.

Zapp Brannigan

Speedy tore his hamstring? Shame, that's really gonna hinder his adaptation!

mike65

DaBreno wrote:

Speaking of the Injured Left, what about Harry Kewell, when is he coming back? At times last season, he could do a good impression of a winger. I was hoping the arrival of Gonzo would be the nessesary kick up the hole he needs to keep him concentrating but then he gets injured. Again. Any news?

The ops have gone well I belive and he should be back in light training after New Year so hopefully we'll see him for the buisness end of the Champions League and Prem.

Mike.

Dub13

Hello all,a little plug if I may.


Over on IrishKop.com we are in process of setting up a travel club,we are not doing this for profit we want cheap trips to games for Pool fans.The travel agents have been ripping us of for far to long.

The price will be €150. max and that will include boat,match tickets,coach transfer and an overnight stay in luxury apartments in Liverpool City Center.Alot of detail's have to be sorted out but we are looking at running the first trip for the Sheffield Utd game in Feb.

woodyg

is Alonso out of tomorrows game?

zing

woodyg wrote:

is Alonso out of tomorrows game?

Yup could be out for up to 12 days - see http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N154190061124-1045.htm

Speedy for 3 weeks or so.

And Warnock just had a groin op and Aurelio is out too (not sure what with)
so very limited on the left now as well as the right.

Could be an interesting line up tomorrow as a result. If Pennant is fit enough then I'd imagine himself & Garcia will start out wide. Otherwise one of Kuyt/Bellamy will have to drop back to one of the wings - or maybe Anderson will get a call up. Although I'd prefer to wait for the next CL game for that as we can't afford to take risks atm when we desperately need points.

gary the great

The match is on Setanta tommorrow at 3pm

mike65

Yea! I'd play

---

Reina
Finnan---Carra--Agger--Riise
Bellamy-Gerrard-Zenden-Garcia

---

Crouch---Kuyt

Bench - Very little!

Mike.

Vokes

Ultra Attacking ?

---

Reina

---

Carra--Hyypia--Agger----
Garcia---Gerrard---Zenden---Riise

---

Kuyt--Crouch--Bellamy---

mike65

I like it!

Mike.

~Rebel~

Dub13 wrote:

Hello all,a little plug if I may.


Over on IrishKop.com we are in process of setting up a travel club,we are not doing this for profit we want cheap trips to games for Pool fans.The travel agents have been ripping us of for far to long.

The price will be €150. max and that will include boat,match tickets,coach transfer and an overnight stay in luxury apartments in Liverpool City Center.Alot of detail's have to be sorted out but we are looking at running the first trip for the Sheffield Utd game in Feb.

that sounds great! id be quite interested in that! Very good value, paid nearly 90e for just a 2 hour bus and tickets for a Barcelona game in August!

Jazzy

rocky iv. woof

Vokes

Twas a 3-5-2 today

---

Reina

---

Carra----Hyppia----Agger
Finnan---Garcia---Gerrard---Zenden---Riise

---

Crouch

---

Kuyt

Chardee MacDennis

i dont think so, carra was playing like a lb... pretty sure it was 4-4-2

redspider

Whilst I'm glad that Liverpool won yesterday, and for Gerrard to score as well, I am not happy at all. And the reason was how the win was achieved. A poor performance from Liverpool really as we found it very difficult to create good chances. This was mainly down to the formation.

People have been wondering about the formation on this thread. And rightly so. I have a bone to pick with Rafa about it.

He played something like this:

---

Reina

---

---

Carra - Hyypia - Agger ----
Finnan

---

Riise

---

Zenden

---

-- Kuyt --- Gerrard

---

Garcia --

---

Crouch

---

It was hard to describe and baffled the pundits to be honest. MOTD completely missed it and Setanta knew it wasnt what was on the pre-match sheets (ie: Agger was not at left back) but still couldnt describe it properly.

To me, this was a new formation and one that Benitez has not played to date, or if so, not in a long time. I seem to remember Pellgrino being accomodated with 3 CB's at one stage.

I thought we had gone through all that formation tinkering last season and had now settled on a 4-4-2. All the players know 4-4-2. This was clearly NOT a 4-4-2.

Whilst a home game v Man City is an easy match to play on paper and affords us an opportunity to change things around, and given that we do have injuries to Alonso, Sissoko and Gonzalez, that affect us badly, nevertheless this was to me was Rafa tinkering just a step too far. And it nearly cost us 2 pts, or dare I say 3 pts.

I'm all for Benitez being adventurous in formations, etc, at times, and that has worked for us, no more than the CL final itself. But I think perhaps maybe that sometimes he has too much time during the week to think and tries to do things overly complex. This was Man City after all, just go for what is known and a 4-4-2. Having Carra, Hyypia and Agger on the pitch at the same time against a team that came to defend is a waste of options in my opinion.

Carragher, Hyypia and Agger were the 3 central backs. Carra would go out wide into the full back position at times, which would allow Finnan to go forward as a lapping wing-back type of player. The same for Agger on the left allowing Riise to go up. So it was like a wing-back situation, although not the classis 5-3-2. I'm not sure what I would call this formation.

Zenden was the player deep, although at times he was in line with Carra and Hyypia and Agger. Kuyt played more wide on the left, as did Garcia, although both got into the middle at times up front with Crouch, eg: the chance that Garcia missed from a long over the top ball from Hyypia. Gerrard played at the top of a quasi diamond, although he was back helping Zenden on plenty of occasions as well. However, Garcia and Kuyt didnt track back far. There was also a lot of movement.

So you could call it 5-2-3, or 3-2-1-1-2-1 ..... yeah ... that rolls off the tongue and is 100% intuitive .... not!

Whatever Bentiez was calling it, it was clear that the formation created very little. The players were not used to it and not much was coming off. Indeed, there was a lack of urgency as well whicch compounded its lack of effectivemess. Only for Man C being incompetent and the sheer brilliance of Stevie G, this could have easily been a 0-0 or worse. Man C came for the draw so barely went up-front at all. On the odd occasion they got through, one was via the exploitation of Hyppia's slowness (again) and his lack of ability to change direction quickly.

So, I'm not happy at all.

And its a case of lucky for Liverpool, as Arsenal lose again. Both clubs look as if they are going to make heavy work of getting to 3rd and 4th, which is good news for the 'also-rans', the chasing pack.

If Benitez picks another formation like this, it will be asking for trouble.

ho-hum

Thoughts ?????

redspider

mike65

Red Spider overall you're right but I have to disagree on your Zenden/Gerrard postioning, Stevie G was playing very deep though the first half, Zenden was more likely to be in a shooting position which I could'nt understand. Indeed it was only when Garcia was subbed for Pennant and the pack reshuffled that things started to look better. Gerrard has to run out of midfield not into it from deep! Selecting Crouch with no width was pointless too (though he's still have opened the scoring had Garcia the wit to cross and not shoot).

Mike.

ps Kuyt deserves more credit for Gerrards goal, as with Wednesday it was his ability to turn a defender that set up the oppotunity.

redspider

mike65 wrote:

Red Spider overall you're right but I have to disagree on your Zenden/Gerrard postioning, Stevie G was playing very deep though the first half, Zenden was more likely to be in a shooting position which I could'nt understand. Indeed it was only when Garcia was subbed for Pennant and the pack reshuffled that things started to look better. Gerrard has to run out of midfield not into it from deep! Selecting Crouch with no width was pointless too (though he's still have opened the scoring had Garcia the wit to cross and not shoot).

ps Kuyt deserves more credit for Gerrards goal, as with Wednesday it was his ability to turn a defender that set up the oppotunity.

In general, Gerrard was more forward than Zenden, and Zenden would stay back to get the ball and spray it forward. Perhaps less of a diamond and more of a diagonal, as in:

---

Zenden

---

---

Gerrard

---

-- Kuyt

---

Garcia --

is a better description. Yes, fully agree that Gerrard was back quite a bit alongside Zenden - I mentioned that in my text.

Attempts to describe a formation with our measly ascii diagrams cant do any formation justice, especially one from Benitez. I have no doubt that Rafa uses a whiteboard and lots of squiggles and lines and shaded areas to convey what he wants done on the pitch. We would need to do likewise.

Gerrard got in some shots and Zenden's shot as far as I recall was one where Citeh were pushed back and Gerrard was quite far forward, not a case of Zenden playing the top of the diamond.

Pennant, when he came on was marginally better than Garcia. Mainly because he can keep the ball more and at least has better vision for finding other players. Garcia is more potent in the box though when he ghosts in. The shape though was kept the same, and in fact things were going pear-shaped, exemplified by Carra's frustration and the yellow card foul he made out of pure frustration.

Then, Gerrard's goal came from nothing. Barton had the ball as Man City were making their way out but he played a pass more or less straight to Kuyt, he didnt see him. Kuyt easily intercepted and quickly laid it off to Gerrard who let fly from the arc after lining the shot up. A similar one in the first half fizzed a foot wide so it was relief when this one went in.

Kuyt was an ok performer overall, he did well to setup Crouch in the 1st half but Crouch missed poorly.

Fowler came on for Crouch, and was just on before the goal, but he wasnt a factor in that and he didnt do anything in the 25 mins run-out he got. Not a good sign even for a super-sub, especially when you see what the likes of Teddy Sheringham and even Kanu are doing these days.

Bellamy was brought on too late. I realise there is some hoo-ha over him and the court case, but surely some football would actually help him.

I dont blame the players for yesterday, I blame Benitez, as he could have done better with the material that he has available to him if he would have picked a more 'normal' formation. Lets hope he learns from this. I think he will, as that is one attribute that he has.

Redspider

mike65

I'm wondering did Rafa play the tactics/formation due to selection problems of because he reckoned on a cagey City formation? If the latter then Pennant should have started as a more attack minded approach would have been more likely to bring a goal earlier and so nullify Pearces' tactics quicker and we could have seen a comfortable win.

Mike.

~Rebel~

redspider wrote:

Fowler came on for Crouch, and was just on before the goal, but he wasnt a factor in that and he didnt do anything in the 25 mins run-out he got. Not a good sign even for a super-sub, especially when you see what the likes of Teddy Sheringham and even Kanu are doing these days.

One thing i was very happy to see was Fowler being very mobile in the box. He was always moving, trying to find space, something i think liverpool haven't been doing, very frustratingly. Would much prefer to see the kind of movement all the arsenal players seem to possess, as if everyone moves and shuffles, someone will be left free for a ground pass. Liverpool just seem to put it into the area and hope the target can beat the man to it, which doesnt work too often. Was delighted to see fowler running in after every shot and backpass, just incase the keeper spiller. He kept his hands on everything but over a season a good finisher will punish a few mistakes by always charging in

Stky10

Hmmm it was the first time in a while that I've seen them for the full 90 mins and I was shocked at how bad they were. Hyppia was fine when we had the ball, and he played one great long pass to Garcia, but he's got so slow now its untrue, it has to be his last season I'd imagine. Agger did ok, but tries to play too much football when in possession and it might backfire on him sometime. Carra and Finnan were one paced and awkward in possession. I don't know if its due to the injury Carra had at the beginning of the season holding him back, but I'd fear for us playing Finnan, Sami, and Carra against a top team anymore. Garcia and Crouch were a disgrace. Garcia looked like he couldn't be ar*ed, and Crouch didn't win a header all day, and looked like he was just bullyed out of it. They should have been taken off long before they were.

As the papers today said, it was city who looked the more likely to score when we did. Richards is some player, they should play him in midfield all the time, he's wasted at right back.

I was disappointed with the subs bench as well. No sign of any of the young players Rafa has said they'd looking at more closely since the injuries to Speedy and Xabi. We don't gave the youth team players a chance anymore. Instead we persist with inconsistent rubbish.

redspider

mike65 wrote:

I'm wondering did Rafa play the tactics/formation due to selection problems of because he reckoned on a cagey City formation? If the latter then Pennant should have started as a more attack minded approach would have been more likely to bring a goal earlier and so nullify Pearces' tactics

I'm wondering as well. I guess the selected formation was an attempt to do both. But as it was nearly certain that Man C were likely to try to defend, how could a team like Liverpool play three Centre Back's ?!? The mind boggles tbh as it just didnt give us enough options going forward. Pennant on the right as you suggest would have allowed Kuyt to get more forward, and this in a 4-4-2. Stable, and boring perhaps, but effective!

redspider