Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

redspider

~Rebel~ wrote:

One thing i was very happy to see was Fowler being very mobile in the box. He was always moving, trying to find space, something i think liverpool haven't been doing, very frustratingly. Would much prefer to see the kind of movement all the arsenal players seem to possess, as if everyone moves and shuffles, someone will be left free for a ground pass. Liverpool just seem to put it into the area and hope the target can beat the man to it, which doesnt work too often. Was delighted to see fowler running in after every shot and backpass, just incase the keeper spiller. He kept his hands on everything but over a season a good finisher will punish a few mistakes by always charging in

I didnt watch Fowler's off the ball work that closely I have to admit. Robbie has to use his guile, but I think its just not working for him these days. One problem he has is lack of pace. He was never super fast anyway, so trying to make runs through and being mobile is one thing but he is not making space for himself and is being picked up and easily marjed and defended. Also, when he is on a one on one he wont be able to beat his man.

I think Robbie when deployed would be better as a target man (ball to feet) so that he can use his experience to lay it off, such as to an inrushing Gerrard, Kuyt or even Garcia. Robbie needs to forget trying to score goals as his raison d'etre and instead concentrate on moves in the final 3rd. Quickness of brain rather than of body. Not easy for a striker to adopt I admit, as old habits die hard. But with such a role, goals will come from spill backs, knock outs, etc, in and around the 12-18 yard range. Chasing in after shots are saved by goalies is Fowler of old and is energy spent on wasted returns, imo.

Aging strikers have to adopt I think.

redspider

redspider

Stky10 wrote:

Hmmm it was the first time in a while that I've seen them for the full 90 mins and I was shocked at how bad they were. Hyppia was fine when we had the ball, and he played one great long pass to Garcia, but he's got so slow now its untrue, it has to be his last season I'd imagine. Agger did ok, but tries to play too much football when in possession and it might backfire on him sometime. Carra and Finnan were one paced and awkward in possession. I don't know if its due to the injury Carra had at the beginning of the season holding him back, but I'd fear for us playing Finnan, Sami, and Carra against a top team anymore. Garcia and Crouch were a disgrace. Garcia looked like he couldn't be ar*ed, and Crouch didn't win a header all day, and looked like he was just bullyed out of it. They should have been taken off long before they were.

As the papers today said, it was city who looked the more likely to score when we did. Richards is some player, they should play him in midfield all the time, he's wasted at right back.

I was disappointed with the subs bench as well. No sign of any of the young players Rafa has said they'd looking at more closely since the injuries to Speedy and Xabi. We don't gave the youth team players a chance anymore. Instead we persist with inconsistent rubbish.

I fully agree that Hyypia should be put on the bench. Yeah, I spotted Agger trying to play a bit (in their half) and it didnt come off so lets hope he doesnt get any bright ideas in our own danger area sometime. He is the obvious replacement for Hyypia though so the sooner that happens the better imo.

I have more confidence than you have in Finnan and Carra. I think on the w'e they were told to get forward as much as possible and this affected their defensive game slightly. Finnan as a wing-back is different than as an overlapping full-back. They are our best two defenders imo.

Garcia is Garcia. More likely to give the ball away than not, but can produce something to create a goal. I think he is more dangerous in the final 3rd of the field when the defence is stretched. He is not good in packed areas when he has to beat 2 players. He wont get past the first man.

Crouch should do more with his ariel advantage for headers at times. I dont know if the coaching staff have heading technique lessons or inded basketball but Crouch could do with some basic lessons imo.

In terms of the youth, perhaps the weekend was chance to give Andersen a run out. However, I think as Benitez left Bellamy on the bench for the match, it wasnt a problem with our bench per se.

Just as well we won .....

redspider

sweetie

redspider wrote:

Aging strikers have to adopt I think.

redspider

Like Ian Wright and Shaun Wright Phillips, you mean?

The Rooster

redspider wrote:

But as it was nearly certain that Man C were likely to try to defend, how could a team like Liverpool play three Centre Back's ?!? The mind boggles tbh as it just didnt give us enough options going forward. Pennant on the right as you suggest would have allowed Kuyt to get more forward, and this in a 4-4-2. Stable, and boring perhaps, but effective!

redspider

But the idea behind it was that Liverpool would have 3 at the back rather than 4. Finnan and Riise to help with width going forward, Agger able to use his footballing ability to get moves going, Garcia to be given a bit more freedom to do his little tricks. And still to have two men up front and two more coming from central midfield.

Its not the system's fault that individual players did not play well. There was not one player not capable of doing a very good job in the role he was given. We've been mediocre at 4-4-2 all season, its not a huge surprise we were mediocre using the wing back system. But I for one would like to see it used more often (maybe trying Paletta instead of Sami). I believe it would suit our players better - so long as Jamie Carragher gets over the psychological problem he has with it...

~Rebel~

sweetie wrote:

Like Ian Wright and Shaun Wright Phillips, you mean?

lol, nearly wet myself when that clicked!

~Rebel~

The Rooster wrote:

But the idea behind it was that Liverpool would have 3 at the back rather than 4. Finnan and Riise to help with width going forward, Agger able to use his footballing ability to get moves going, Garcia to be given a bit more freedom to do his little tricks. And still to have two men up front and two more coming from central midfield.

I would like to see this system played again with the full team available, sissoko and alonso in fron of the back 3, gerrard able to run from midfield into the box, risse and finnan (or depending on circumstances maybe pennant, gonzo, or kewell put in to be extra attacking), and then the 2 strikers.

As mentioned, if hypia seems to not be up to the 3 at the back, we do still have 3 quality center backs in carra, agger and paletta (has looked very good from what i've seen so far)

sweetie

~Rebel~ wrote:

lol, nearly wet myself when that clicked!

I aim to please!

mike65

Pompey come calling tomorrow and that'll be a more open game, 'arry likes attacking footie.

Mike.

Dub13

arry likes to buy and sell players.

kinaldo

mike65 wrote:

Pompey come calling tomorrow and that'll be a more open game, 'arry likes attacking footie.

Mike.

Pompey were woeful yesterday. Newcastle were all over them for 90 minutes and should have won 4 or 5 nil.

el rabitos

i cant believe that liverpool of all clubs are being linked with leading the chase for amelia. rafa has a fetish for goalkeepers or something. if he even goes to the board looking for 10 million for amelia they should sack him on the spot.

~Rebel~

el rabitos wrote:

i cant believe that liverpool of all clubs are being linked with leading the chase for amelia. rafa has a fetish for goalkeepers or something.

Agreed! We've just sold Kirkland for not much (never thought he was quite up to the standard we needed, but still a very decent keeper), have Carson doin great on loan, have already shelled out loads on Reina and have Dudek, another quality keeper (when not shot of confidence) in the background.

I did read one comment from Livorno alright though that could make sense of it..

Milan are known to be very keen also, but Livorno insist that they would only listen to a swap move.

"Milan? I don't think they have a goalkeeper to offer us," he (Livorno President) said.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=431142&CPID=21&clid=14&lid=&title=English+interest+in+Amelia

This might hint that we could be letting Dudek go at last, no doubt plus a few million as well. Id be surprised if we'd go for a swap deal involving Reina, though you never know!

el rabitos

it would have to be reina leaving if theres a serious intention to buy amelia.

reina is only 23 or so, has on the whole so far being a good buy in my opinion, buying amelia who's only 24/25 himself while keeping reina would be ridiculous.

not to mention the fact that amelia would cost at least 10 million, money better spent on other areas. finnan needs competition with a view to replacing him over the next season or 2, i'd consider that far more important than another keeper.

~Rebel~

el rabitos wrote:

finnan needs competition with a view to replacing him over the next season or 2, i'd consider that far more important than another keeper.

Speaking of which I wonder if we'll be excercising the buyback clause on Antonio Barragan? We can get him after the second or third year for 700,000e. Just did a quick check on him and he seems to be doing well at depor, he's got 9 league starts and a goal. Anyone know in any greater detail how hes doing? Must keep an eye out for depor playing.

zing

mike65 wrote:

Pompey come calling tomorrow and that'll be a more open game, 'arry likes attacking footie.

Mike.

They can call all they want tomorrow - the games not 'til Wednesday..

mike65

Mike.

Stky10

Zenden out for 6 weeks... Youth team lottery begins...

el rabitos

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6189478.stm

Emiliano Insua deal confirmed

~Rebel~

Rafael Benitez will have a hard decision to make for Liverpool's next game against Portsmouth. Bolo Zenden is reported to be out for a month with a knee injury.

With Steven Gerrard the only fit 1st team CM who will Rafa pick to partner him?

One possibility is to play defender Jamie Carragher in midfield and use Daniel Agger and Sami Hyypia in the defence.

Steven Gerrard has stated his desire to play in the central role. Due to injuries it has forced Rafael Benitez to grant his wish.

http://www.liverpool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=39713

Jesus christ whats going on with the injuries?!?! What odds on Stevie getting injured on Wednesday? This is like the injury plague that took out every single 1st team and reserve striker 2 years ago.

el rabitos

~Rebel~ wrote:

http://www.liverpool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=39713

Jesus christ whats going on with the injuries?!?! What odds on Stevie getting injured on Wednesday? This is like the injury plague that took out every single 1st team and reserve striker 2 years ago.

now all we need is ken and deirdre in corrie to get married and the champions league is OURS again

i'd like to see adam hammil get 90 minutes against pompey

Vokes

Peltier or Riise to play CM, perhaps....

Stky10

SofaKing wrote:

Peltier or Riise to play CM, perhaps....

Can't be Riise, he's the only left full we've got left. I'd like to see Peltier or Guthrie given a chance because if they aren't what hope have they of ever been given a decent run, but I reckon its more likely to be one of Carra/Agger/Paletta.

The only consolation is portsmouth are down to the bare bones as well.

God knows, maybe we'll bring poor Salif back from on-loan...

Vokes

Well, I could also see Carragher playing LB with Riise as CM. But keeping Riise at LB and moving one of the aforementioned CBs into midfield would seem more likely.

Personally id like to see Peltier get the nod.

Nalz

~Rebel~ wrote:

http://www.liverpool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=39713

Jesus christ whats going on with the injuries?!?! What odds on Stevie getting injured on Wednesday?

He better not, I plan to have him in my fantasy.premierleague team for the next month! Knowing Liverpools luck lately they'll be calling back Carson and Kirkland to play CM next

The Rooster

IMO the best thing Rafa could do would be to give one of the youngsters a game. It would be a great boost to everyone involved in the youth system.

I really hope he doesnt play Carra in midfield. Agger or Riise I wouldnt mind.

emc2

Word is that Agger will play center mid with stevie.

mike65

Liverpool (from): Reina, Finnan, Hyypia, Agger, Carragher, Riise, Luis Garcia, Gerrard, Pennant, Guthrie, Crouch, Kuyt, Fowler, Dudek, Paletta, Hammill, Peltier, El Zhar.

---

Reina
Finnan--Carra-Hyypia-Riise/Paletta

---

Agger
Pennant-Gerrard-Luis Garcia/Riise

---

Kuyt-Crouch

Should still win tbh.

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

Agger is composed on the ball and I'd imagine he would slot into the centre of the park without too much trouble. Gerrard alongside him will feel that he has to keep an eye on him so I'd expect a big game from him tomorrow.

Kuyt is due a goal too. I think that tomorrows game shouldn't pose too much of a problem.

Waster

I would like to see Guthrie or Peltier being given a go tomorrow night. I would leave the defence as it is. They've played fairly well over the last few games since Arsenal.
We have a 15 year old Finnish player called Lauri Dalla Valle on trial according to sky.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=413089&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=2&title=Reds+to+trial+Finn+starlet

The Rooster

mike65 wrote:

Liverpool (from): Reina, Finnan, Hyypia, Agger, Carragher, Riise, Luis Garcia, Gerrard, Pennant, Guthrie, Crouch, Kuyt, Fowler, Dudek, Paletta, Hammill, Peltier, El Zhar.

Hammill, Peltier and El Zhar are all playing for the reserves tonight, but Guthrie is not - which strongly suggests Guthrie is the only one likely to make the 16 tomorrow. I'd love to see him start, if only to prove the youth system is still working, but it seems unlikely.

Rafa says Hyypia is a real option ("he was the first name that came into my head to replace Bolo") for centre midfield because of his "agility and stamina"!! He also mentions Carra and Agger, but does not refer to the youngsters at all.

zAbbo

Agger or Carra for my vote, I'd choose Agger, more versatile than given credit for.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote:

Hammill, Peltier and El Zhar are all playing for the reserves tonight, but Guthrie is not - which strongly suggests Guthrie is the only one likely to make the 16 tomorrow.

Hammill and Peltier played the full 90 minutes in the reserves 0-0 draw against mighty Marine, meaning they've no chance of being involved tonight. El Zhar only played the first half.

mike65

Looks the the team pretty much picks itself then, I'll stick with my earlier guess.

Mike.

woodyg

it's either going to be 3-5-2 or 4-1-3-2 with agger playing in the defensive mid filed slot. this really could be a bad night for the pool. Portsmouth havent been the best on there travels but with 3 centre midfield players out the pool are very light in the middle.

a scrappy win tonight would do me fine with maybe a bolton draw :rolleyes:

Reganio 2

I hope agger plays centre and tbh i think he will.

Guy:Incognito

On a non football note, Bellamy was cleared of assault charges but I think I heard them say he's not available tonight.


EDIT. ssn showing live pics of him leaving court in cardiff and rafa says he's not playing.

Anymore news on whether stuff is coming out in the papers about Gerrard? He seems a bit mor eupbeat over the last couple of weeks and is playing better. All a load of crap about the missus maybe? hopefully.

I know I saked this th eother day but is there any news on the pennants stolen from the museum?

mike65

Defoe for Pool and Bellamy to Spurs????? He's been linked with at least 3 clubs in the last day or so. Jol has scotched the rumours but you never know.

Mike.

xabi

SP1 are showing Bolton Chelsea. Is the Pool Portsmouth game on any foreign channel? I fancy a pint and a game of ball.

The Rooster

Stekelly wrote:

Anymore news on whether stuff is coming out in the papers about Gerrard? He seems a bit mor eupbeat over the last couple of weeks and is playing better. All a load of crap about the missus maybe? hopefully.

Personally I put his bad form down to that its taken this long to get over the huge disappointment of the World Cup, compounded by his own penalty miss. My amateur opinion is that, in his own head, he went from King of the World to a gimp, and its not until now that he's got his head straight.

mike65

The team!

---

Reina
Finnan---Hyypia---Agger---Riise
Pennant-Carragher-Gerrard-Garcia

---

Kuyt---Crouch

Subs: Fowler Dudek Paletta El Zhar Guthrie

I'm assuming Carra rather than Agger at this moment but hopefully I'm wrong.

Mike.

Stky10

Hopefully a few early second half goals so El Zhar and Guthrie get a chance.

EDIT: See both have come on without any goals...

PiE

Oh dear.

zing

PiE wrote:

Oh dear.

Another frustrating performance. Dominated the game at times but lacked a cutting edge - and sure enough they dozed off at times and let Pompey mount some half decent attacks but they lacked fire power too. Neither keeper had very much to do with Reina in particular having a quite evening.

Good to see El Zhar & Guthrie getting a few mins but the lack of previous prem experience was apparent with both. But they've got to start somewhere ..

A single goal and we'd be sharing third spot now with Bolton but it wasn't to be.

redspider

Well, well, well. Liverpool drop another 2 pts from target. Okay, a neutral may say that Portsmouth are a top team given their league position, but really they aren't.

From the reports, Jamie Carragher played in central midfield. As good and all as Jamie is, he is just not a player that can play in the same mould as Alonso or many others in that position. How did he do?

Also from the reports I read, Liverpool dominated, and the attempts on goal stat backs that up, but they weren't able to convert the better chances they created. Portsmouth came for the draw, with a depleted side seemingly, and they got it.

Arsenal had a worse night it has to be said. And its once again emphasised that both teams will have a long long trek to the 3rd and 4th positions. If Wenger hasnt written himself out of winning it yet he needs to wake up.

The ladder version of the table is now:

38 Man Utd
37
36
35 Chelsea
34
33
32
31
30
29
28
27
26
25
24 Portsmouth, Bolton 
23 Aston Villa
22 Arsenal, Liverpool, Reading  
21 Everton      
20 Fulham, 
19 Tottenham, Man City

So, Liverpool are 2 pts behind 3rd place, which is okay IF that is our benchmark. It may not have been the expectation at the start of the season, but it is a valid benchmark now. In the last couple of seasons, we've had one of the big four undr-performing and scraping into the CL. Last year it was Arsenal, and the season before it was Liverpool as Everton did crack the top-4. However, this season, both clubs are at it, so it is a great chanc for the 'also-rans'. Liverpool are also in the 'also-ran' grouping this season!

My prediction is still unchanged:
CMAL

By the way, I see a new player for Liverpool got a run-out this evening, Nabil El Zhar. A bit of a surprise for me as a) he wasnt listed on Liverpoolfc.tv's website as being a squad player, and b) he wasn't listed as a player on any of the matchday programmes which I've read in recent weeks (PSV, Man C). The squad numbering stopped at 40 with David Martin, and he is 42. I found this info on him:

---

Liverpool secured the transfer of exciting Moroccan Nabil El Zhar from St Etienne in October 2006.

El Zhar will be a regular in Gary Ablett's reserve team squad in the 2006/2007 season and is a talented and quick striker.

Despite being born in France El Zhar chose to play for Morocco as he qualifies through one of his parents. He first sprung to prominence in the 2005 World Youth Championships when he helped Morocco reach the semi-finals before they lost to Brazil.

Having decided to bring an end to his career with St Etienne, he's now hopeful of forcing his way into Rafael Benitez's Anfield plans.

He said: "St Etienne offered me a professional deal but I waited before signing it because I was unconvinced it was in my best interests to stay.

"When we came back for pre-season training I came back with the seniors, but they weren't really expecting me.

"So I preferred to pack my suitcases and go somewhere where I'd have a long-term future, that's to say Liverpool.

"They are a big club, but I'm convinced I've made the right decision to sign for them. I'm aiming on making a name for myself here.

"It's my intention to play in the first team eventually. I want to prove myself, make a name for myself and, if I do that, my chances will come here."

---

I guess one question I have, is how did we sign him in October (?!?) as I thought that was outside of the allowable transfer window, or was he a free agent? Just wondering.



Redspider

MrJoeSoap

redspider wrote:

I guess one question I have, is how did we sign him in October (?!?) as I thought that was outside of the allowable transfer window, or was he a free agent? Just wondering.

Well as it says in your quoted text he was offered a professional deal by St. Etienne but didn't accept it, which presumably means he wasn't on any professional terms and was free to move. Thats just a guess though. There are quite a few loopholes like when Southampton signed Rasiak outside the transfer window last season by "loaning" him with a permanent deal arranged for the next window.

The Rooster

Carragher started off great. The first 10 minutes he was running the game, I couldnt believe my eyes. Spraying passes around and even charging forward for a shot from the edge of the box.......... but it didnt last. Reverted to a more cautious defensive mode after, as we all probably would have expected. He still did well enough, but that would have been grand for a game against a decent side, but a waste agaisnt a team holding out for 0-0.

Was most frustrated with him with about 10 minutes to go when Kuyt went wide and did well to get a cross in - but there was only 2 or 3 red shirts in the box and about 9 from Pompey. The ball was cleared down field, and there's Carra standing 2 yards in front of Sami and Agger around the half way line!

Garcia and Pennant were both very frustrating to watch too. Nothing they tried came off.

Crouch played 60 mins and Fowler played 30. Between them they contributed zilch. Having said that, they got next to no service. For example, early on Riise had a shot from 25 yards which went miles wide - Crouch had made a great run, and a simple ball from Riise would have put him through.

Guthrie and El Zhar both looked extremely light. But you couldnt judge them just on last night.

Overall, played some nice football, but final ball not good enough. Didnt create enough good chances.

redspider

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well as it says in your quoted text he was offered a professional deal by St. Etienne but didn't accept it, which presumably means he wasn't on any professional terms and was free to move. Thats just a guess though. There are quite a few loopholes like when Southampton signed Rasiak outside the transfer window last season by "loaning" him with a permanent deal arranged for the next window.

Sounds like a loophole to me and against the spirit of the rules. Also, if everything was so above board, why wasnt he listed in the clubs numbering system on the official club website and as a player on the official club programmes. I'm not saying there is anything done underhand here on purpose but its just a bit strange, thats all.

Redspider

ps: still have the 'We are the winners of ... " tune ringing in my ears!

redspider

The Rooster wrote:

Carragher started off great. The first 10 minutes he was running the game, I couldnt believe my eyes. Spraying passes around and even charging forward for a shot from the edge of the box.......... but it didnt last. Reverted to a more cautious defensive mode after, as we all probably would have expected. He still did well enough, but that would have been grand for a game against a decent side, but a waste agaisnt a team holding out for 0-0.

Was most frustrated with him with about 10 minutes to go when Kuyt went wide and did well to get a cross in - but there was only 2 or 3 red shirts in the box and about 9 from Pompey. The ball was cleared down field, and there's Carra standing 2 yards in front of Sami and Agger around the half way line!

Garcia and Pennant were both very frustrating to watch too. Nothing they tried came off.

Crouch played 60 mins and Fowler played 30. Between them they contributed zilch. Having said that, they got next to no service. For example, early on Riise had a shot from 25 yards which went miles wide - Crouch had made a great run, and a simple ball from Riise would have put him through.

Guthrie and El Zhar both looked extremely light. But you couldnt judge them just on last night.

Overall, played some nice football, but final ball not good enough. Didnt create enough good chances.

Thanks for that insight. Sounds like Jamie did alright then overall given that he has had zero match practice in such a role. I only saw a glimpse of him on MOTD and he wasnt out of place. As you correctly point out, he could do the deep midfielder role better when its a game we are trying to hold on/defend. But when chasing the game Jamie just hasnt been brought up that way as an attacking creating midfielder.

I think Crouch should be doing more and playing a bit smarter. Once again, the key player for us was Stevie G. He probably should have done betyter with that free kick, going for a curler more than a rasper. We need to have more players that can take curling free kicks. Practice, practice. Its an important weapon to have and we dont have it in our weapons room. I had to laugh when I saw Hyypia hitting a 30-yard screamer attempt. Once we are reduced to such play its clear that we have lost the plot in a game.

To me, this was the same as the Man City game, although to be fair to Rafa he went back to a 4-4-2. Does he read boards.ie I wonder? But overall, we created some close chances but nothing broke through although some were close.

Redspider

mike65

Agger should have started in MF, as he would'nt have strunk back into defence. Then when (if!) the goal came they could switch roles as Agger could then cover Hyypias lack of pace as Pompey went looking for the equaliser.

Mike.

Stky10

redspider wrote:

Sounds like a loophole to me and against the spirit of the rules. Also, if everything was so above board, why wasnt he listed in the clubs numbering system on the official club website and as a player on the official club programmes. I'm not saying there is anything done underhand here on purpose but its just a bit strange, thats all.

It was all announced on the official site at the time he signed (28th Sept according to his page on Wikipedia) so there was nothing underhand in it at all. I'm sure if you do a search in this thread you'll find mention of him before as well. They're trying to acclimatise him to the english game by playing him in the reserves so thats why he hasn't made a bigger impact given his reputation. As such, he probably wouldn't have been given a squad number till early this week.