Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

thebaz

fade2black wrote:

The thread starter becomes irrelevant as soon as other post on the thread.

?

TheMonster

Liverpool will not win the PL with Benitez as manager, he does not understand the premiership and has shown no signs of adapting to it. If anything they have actually gone backwards since Houllier, at best they are at the same level.

LuckyLloyd

I think the OP is more making a gambling enquiry than anything else. I am a Liverpool fan and I must say that backing them for the title next year would be slightly outlandish.

However, if this business deal is completed and the team gets it's act together after Christmas their price on winning the league next year will fall sharply in the new year. If you want to throw a few quid on them now you will probably get a fantastic price. Working on the theory that you will get them at a much better price now than next August I would say that it would be a decent bet. Who really knows what will happen next year? Liverpool will start next season as a contender of some sorts after all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

As a Pool fan, I've never felt that "this will be our year". Not since the Chelsea millions started rolling, anyway. Am I the only one that doesn't think like this, or is that sad Everton fan just tarring everyone?

fade2black

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I think the OP is more making a gambling enquiry than anything else. I am a Liverpool fan and I must say that backing them for the title next year would be slightly outlandish.

However, if this business deal is completed and the team gets it's act together after Christmas their price on winning the league next year will fall sharply in the new year. If you want to throw a few quid on them now you will probably get a fantastic price. Working on the theory that you will get them at a much better price now than next August I would say that it would be a decent bet. Who really knows what will happen next year? Liverpool will start next season as a contender of some sorts after all.

Good point all the same.

jem

have to say that of all the potential buyers out there these have to be probably the best.
In saying that , with alcohol being banned in most of the mid east what is the chance carlsber geting the short hop quickly.

thebaz

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

or is that sad Everton fan just tarring everyone?

How did i tar everyone ?

I didn't once slag Pool , stated my interest was purely mercenary and that Pool would challenge with Dubai billions, but it was ironic that i was an Evertonian -- so behave .

Nalz

Man Utd are going to win the treble

RE*AC*TOR

Carlsberg aren't quite in the top sponsorship league anyway. If this deal happens and we get a bit more flathoulach with the spending, buy a few more high profile players, then I imagine a more high profile sponsor will come.

I don't know much about the group, so I can't comment on the ethics of their money, but on face value it sounds like a good deal.

PiE

fade2black wrote:

The thread starter becomes irrelevant as soon as others post on the thread.

Just like the thread topic becomes irrelevant as soon as Man Utd fans post on the thread.

I don't think Liverpool will win the league for the foreseeable future, RA will pump a lot more money into Chelsea than any Sheikh will into Liverpool.

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

Liverpool will not win the PL with Benitez as manager, he does not understand the premiership and has shown no signs of adapting to it. If anything they have actually gone backwards since Houllier, at best they are at the same level.

I know you just do this to troll but I'll bite anyway.

How does finishing two years with 57 and then 82 points equate to "going backwards"? In fact I don't think Liverpool every got as many as 82 points under Houllier. For a team that "has shown no signs of adapting" they ran your own team quite close last year. In fact a single decision (i.e. Spurs "goal at OT) could have turn the tables the other way.

In Houllier's last season Liverpool won 60 points, in Benitez's first he won 58 and the CL. I certainly don't consider that a step back as it's blatantly obvious that the team had their sights on the top prize.

I know you probably won't even respond to this but I just wanted to point out that you are talking complete and utter horse excrement again.

patmac

Stekelly wrote:

im not saying they will but a week before ra took over chelsea they were a team that hadnt won it in near 50 years and a team no one would ever predict to win it.

Only another 33 years to go so.
I can't see the Maktoums throwing millions at Liverpool like RA, I hope not anyway, if they do can you imagine what the transfer market would be like. When will it all end Bill Gates to buy Accrington Stanley.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

thebaz wrote:

How did i tar everyone ?

I didn't once slag Pool , stated my interest was purely mercenary and that Pool would challenge with Dubai billions, but it was ironic that i was an Evertonian -- so behave .

Was referring to Fade2black, thought he was the Evertonian - my apologies.

zAbbo

fade2black wrote:

The thread starter becomes irrelevant as soon as others post on the thread.

The thread becomes irrelevant as soon as you post on it.

fade2black

Boom Boom

TheMonster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I know you just do this to troll but I'll bite anyway.

How does finishing two years with 57 and then 82 points equate to "going backwards"? In fact I don't think Liverpool every got as many as 82 points under Houllier. For a team that "has shown no signs of adapting" they ran your own team quite close last year. In fact a single decision (i.e. Spurs "goal at OT) could have turn the tables the other way.

In Houllier's last season Liverpool won 60 points, in Benitez's first he won 58 and the CL. I certainly don't consider that a step back as it's blatantly obvious that the team had their sights on the top prize.

I know you probably won't even respond to this but I just wanted to point out that you are talking complete and utter horse excrement again.

This season is the one I am referring to - Liverpool are already 16 points the league leaders whereas most of their fans would have led you to believe that they would be challenging for the title this year.

Also just to point out a flaw in your argument, Utd also took the foot of the pedal last year when the league was not possible.

zAbbo

fade2black wrote:

Boom Boom

Have a read back and see how you've derailed the thread, well done, confirming what most people think

Vokes

LuckyLloyd wrote:

However, if this business deal is completed and the team gets it's act together after Christmas their price on winning the league next year will fall sharply in the new year. If you want to throw a few quid on them now you will probably get a fantastic price. Working on the theory that you will get them at a much better price now than next August I would say that it would be a decent bet.

Aye, might be worth throwing down a few quid now (or perhaps even for the 08/09 season). I wonder what the odds are now versus last week before the Dubai news - id say they've fallen already.

fade2black

zabbo wrote:

Have a read back and see how you've derailed the thread, well done, confirming what most people think

You're a bitter little pool fan aren't you? Are you going to continue flaming me for the day? Surely you have work to do.

thebaz

if my memory serves me right i got Chelsea at 16/1 to win title the year RA tookover, so i stood to gain a tidy some if they had come in !
I like big jackpots, thats why i thought i might get decent odds on Pool now , for next year!

astrofool

Also, the spurs' goal was from the previous season when Carroll was in goal, and Liverpool came fifth.

Of course maybe if the goal had stood Utd might have dropped another 10-15 points, but we'll never know..

RasTa

Chelsea where 8/1 to win it, in the season they first won. I won loads of Hearts last season, as they where 6/1 to win the league without the old firm.

In terms of Liverpool winning the league next season. I will start a book right now if any pool fans want and offer 14/1, bets must be 20 euro only.

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

This season is the one I am referring to - Liverpool are already 16 points the league leaders whereas most of their fans would have led you to believe that they would be challenging for the title this year.

If you are only referring to this season, how can they have "gone backwards"? What is your comparison? Last year? Do you have figures for the same games that Liverpool played last year?

This season is not even half way through. Liverpool had a similar points tally at a similar point of the season last year (probably slightly less this year but not much). To say that they are going backwards based on three/four months of the season is nonsense.

TheMonster wrote:

Also just to point out a flaw in your argument, Utd also took the foot of the pedal last year when the league was not possible.

How is this a flaw in my arguement?

United's performance had no impact on the amount of points that Liverool won (their most in the PL as far as I remember).

How can a team not be "adapting" or going "backwards" when they are achieving (or coming close to matching) record totals?

astrofool wrote:

Also, the spurs' goal was from the previous season when Carroll was in goal, and Liverpool came fifth.

Of course maybe if the goal had stood Utd might have dropped another 10-15 points, but we'll never know..

The timing of the incident is not really the issue. What I was trying to illustrate is the line between success and failure can be very slim, and sometimes can hinge on a single decision going one way or the other.

~Rebel~

fade2black wrote:

You're a bitter little pool fan aren't you? Are you going to continue flaming me for the day? Surely you have work to do.

in fairness can we keep it on topic a bit? just PM the guy or something instead of postin that crap out here. This isnt a liverpool winning the title thread, no liverpool fans have mentioned it as one, only yourself and a few others have.

Its a thread about the possibility of history repeating inself with a big money takeover and the possibility of a quick buck to be made by us

TheMonster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

How is this a flaw in my arguement?

United's performance had no impact on the amount of points that Liverool won (their most in the PL as far as I remember).

How can a team not be "adapting" or going "backwards" when they are achieving (or coming close to matching) record totals?

Your argument for Liverpool only getting 57 points the year you won CL was that they took their foot off the gas, Utd did the same last year which was the reason ran them to 1 point.

Ok, maybe going backwards was a slight exaggeration but I did say at best they are the same level. IMO they have gone backwards, maybe not supported by hard facts but I thought the year after winning the CL they could challenge.

My main point is that I don't think Benitez will win the league as I don't think he has grasped the premiership yet, I know some Liverpool fans who believe the same.

~Rebel~

Seems Pongolle is proving he was worthy of a chance, 5 goals in 6 starts and 5 sub appearances in Spain for a newly promoted side - not bad!

Sadly he also seems intent on burning bridges unfortunately and looking for a fresh start.

Florent Sinama-Pongolle insists his Liverpool career is over and he has no desire to return to Anfield at the end of the season.

The French youngster is currently on loan at Recreativo Huelva and has impressed in La Liga, scoring five goals to date.

Sinama-Pongolle was shipped out of Liverpool after the signings of Dirk Kuyt and Craig Bellamy, and his long-term prospects under Rafa Benitez look increasingly small.

Now the forward may have firmly closed the door on any future with The Reds by insisting he has no desire to return to the Premiership.

"No, I don't see myself at Liverpool next year, it is over," Sinama-Pongolle told RMC.

"I have been important for them, helping them to win cups, scoring in the Champions League and FA Cup.

"But I feel very good in Spain. The league is more technical, less direct, and I have scored five goals.

"I want to do more than the club's best scorer record of 10 goals."

Funnily enough, he's showing the type of form that would normaly have rafa taking an interest in a striker in spain, such as with riki and a few others since he's arrived at pool.

~Rebel~

TheMonster wrote:

My main point is that I don't think Benitez will win the league as I don't think he has grasped the premiership yet, I know some Liverpool fans who believe the same.

Its a toughy to answer really. The team hasn't gone through a stable progression, we had the champions league year in which we were very solid in europe but leaking stupid goals in england, then last year where rafa made the team very solid at home, happy to win games 1-0 or 2-0 but the onus was on Not Conceeding (as seen by the incredible record of clean sheets and the runs of consecutive clean sheets).

This year however Rafa has made it plainly obvious (both through his words and through his actions in the transfer market) that he wants liverpool to be a more attacking team, willing to concede a few more, but capable of scoring more then enough to make up for it.

So basically i would say it took him 2 years to adapt to playing the safey game in england with a quality end product to it in the form of 82 points. Id imagine he thinks to do better he needs a more attacking philosphy so i would be happy to give him the same 2 year period to try and change the style of football to the required level of attacking play. Hes trying things out now, i would be very surprised if he doesnt write off some of his tactics and players as failures and moves to rectify them (perhaps another winger on the right to give pennant a kick up the arse). When you look at it this way its a quite methodical way of reaching success so long as the fans and board keep patience. Im happy to give him time anyway.


So this post isnt totally off topic, it seems pool wont be spending "willy nilly" (their choice of words, not mine!), but that required funds will be available so if i were to put a bet on i think id go for the year after next

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1753414,00.html

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

Your argument for Liverpool only getting 57 points the year you won CL was that they took their foot off the gas, Utd did the same last year which was the reason ran them to 1 point.

I see the comparison you are trying to make now, but I still think it is a bit derogatory to compare Liverpool's post Christmas quest in the CL in 2005 to United's last couple of weeks where they new they couldn't win the league last year, particularly seeing as United still had to play for second place.

TheMonster wrote:

Ok, maybe going backwards was a slight exaggeration but I did say at best they are the same level. IMO they have gone backwards, maybe not supported by hard facts but I thought the year after winning the CL they could challenge.

So have they gone backwards or not?

Last year they were only nine points off the title, despite only picking up one point against the two teams that finished above them. That was the principle difference in winning the title or not.

This year they've a similar record so far, but a chance to put that right in the homes games against them, so I personally will reserve judgement until we have a level playing field between the two periods.

TheMonster wrote:

My main point is that I don't think Benitez will win the league as I don't think he has grasped the premiership yet, I know some Liverpool fans who believe the same.

Well you can belive that if you want. But as you said yourself your thoughts are not supported by hard facts.

Last year Liverpool finished with enough points to win the leagues in many other years. Granted Chelsea have raised the bar, but to write Benitez's chances of ever winning the league off, after two years in which he has achieved unimaginable success prior to his takeover, is ridiculous.

Hard facts and logic would back that up.

Going back to the theme of the thread, how could anyone write off a team with one of the best managers in the league when potentially he could have riches to rival Chelsea at his disposal within a couple of months?

tosh_thedude

zabbo wrote:

Forget 07/08, what about 06/07 ?

No more far fetched than ManYoo winning the CL anytime soon

Very Good point.

Chucky the tree

I suppose someone should attempt to answer baz's question after 3 pages so i'll give it a try.


Bookies arent stupid. They will have heard about this and definitly factor it into the pricing of Liverpool. I'd say paddypower will definitly price it for you if you ring them.


I think the odds on liverpool at the start of the season was 10/1 or thre abouts. Taking a look at there recent forum that would drift out. But Paddypower will know that if Liverpool finish the season of like they did last year there price will shorten. Add in the fact you potentially have a billionaire wanting to take it over i'd say you would be looking at 12's at the most. I actually think they would offer 10/1 again, maybe even shorter.

Next time your better off asking something like this in the gambling forum.

Guy:Incognito

I have a tendancy to agree about benitez and the league. I think he is buying the wrong type of player for his system and the league.

Morientes was a striker both too good and too lightweight for the league and benitez system.

Benitez needs to get a strong, powerfull but also skillful striker like Drogba, not a relativly light footballer like Henry. To use a skillfull player you have to play like Arsenal. He seems to want to play like Chelsea but with Arsenal players. That doesnt work. It's not a fluke that Garcia plays well in Europe but spends so much time on his arse in the league.

Chucky the tree

do you not remeber the dogs abuse drogba got in his first season? Everyone said he was muck and a complete waste of money, same with Essien.

Both have done very well this season. Its difficult for foreign players to come in and great in there first season and it usually a complete change of style they have to deal with. Then there all the off-field changes they have to get used to aswell.

Would you not consider Kuyt a good player for the english league system? He also bought Bellamy and Pennant, two players who are British and used to playing in this style.

He might not of understood league in the first season, but copped on in the summer and tried to recitfy it. Unfortunatly it didnt work. I certainly hate to see him go now.

PHB

It's easy to talk in abstraction, but who could Liverpool get who would actually be better than him?

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

It's easy to talk in abstraction, but who could Liverpool get who would actually be better than him?

Very fair question to be honest.

Guy:Incognito

Maybe he needs a British assistant?

Chucky the tree

why? what excactly is wrong with this line-up?

Finnan - carra-agger-risse

gerrard-sissoko-alonso-garcia

bellamy-Kuyt

thats his first 11 i think, only supposed "weak" player is garcia.

Guy:Incognito

Chucky the tree wrote:

why? what excactly is wrong with this line-up?

Finnan - carra-agger-risse

gerrard-sissoko-alonso-garcia

bellamy-Kuyt

thats his first 11 i think, only supposed "weak" player is garcia.

Gerrard doesnt want to play on the right and hasnt been preforming there. He has looked really good getting chances and goals as well as creatign stuff from the middle. The team should be built around him, he shouldnt be fitted in wherever theres a space. Riise can be weak defencsively, I'd rather see him on the left instead of Garcia, he'll create and score more than garcia. Bellamy spends too much time whinging at refs and needs to convert more chances.

Aside from the line up, I think he has them playing the worng way for the league. The only option used on saturady was balls over the top for Bellamy, luckily enough it came off thanks to a very weak Wigan defence, but in other games this season that hasnt looked like working. Not enough football being played. If he wants to play like Chelsea he should get a strong target man to play with/off Kuyt. Crouch is weak like a baby and cant head a ball. Bellamy goes over when people look at him and spends 5 mins moaning.

sweetie

Nice to hear Robbie got a couple tonight.

redspider

Galatasaray 3-2 Liverpool

GOALS
Necati (24) Okan (28) Ilic (80)
Fowler (22, 89)

A game with nothing at stake, but perhaps a night where something could be learned even if Liverpool lined out a '2nd 11'. Liverpool played a formation like this:

---

Dudek

---

- Peltier - Paletta -- Agger -- Riise -
Pennant - Alonso - Carragher - Guthrie

---

Bellamy - Fowler

---

Subs came on:
Garcia (Guthrie 65) Crouch (Bellamy 74) Roque (Alonso 84)

Robbie got the opener with his arse! A good cross from Bellamy from the left hand side.

The Turkish outfit came back through a stray pass from Xabi. Paletta perhaps could have done better, but Alonso's sloppiness was the main culprit. They scored again a few minutes later with a wel struck shot after a Liverpool clearence. No blame on Dudek but perhaps he could have done a bit better. No one got in a good blocking position. The third was ppor defense from Liverpool, mainly by Riise, although Agger and Paletta could have perhaps done more to recover, as Carra always does.

Fowler got a late consolation goal, a good header from about 8 yards out after a cross from inside right position after good work beating several men by Pennant. The other notable item of play was a neatly worked free kick, a deft chip by Alonso put Robbie clean through but his shot was too lame and too direct at the keeper.

Lessons:
- Paletta and Agger not strong enough as CB's together, both lacking in enough experience, combined this with Peltier on the right.

- Peltier did the best of the 'new' players I thought.

- Not sure if Guthrie did much in the game at all

- Robbie not fit enough to be a super sub, still has good finishing skills though although still misses sitters

- a night to gain experience



Redspider

Stky10

The errors seemed to creep into Paletta in the second half. Its a big jump from reserve football to champions league level. He should probably be loaned out to get his fitness up, and some experience.

Peltier did pretty well alright, but from what I've heard he's more a central midfielder converted to a right back, than a natural right back. I'm not sure what Guthrie was supposed to produce when he's a right footed central midfielder playing on the left.

Pity Anderson didn't get a look in. I don't know has he gone backwards, or if he's just not rated by Ablett, but bringing him on instead of Garcia or Crouch would have seemed the smarter long term plan. I'm a bit suprised Miki Roque made an appearance as well. He was a sub on the youth team last year, behind the likes of Hobbs and Antwi in the general pecking order. Has he made a huge jump forwards, or have they gone backwards?

I saw rumours last night DIC were looking at buying Tranmere as well as a feeder club, its probably rubbish, but it might be a good idea so that the reserve team players get to play more meaningful competitive matches.

Bacchus

Stekelly wrote:

Gerrard doesnt want to play on the right and hasnt been preforming there. He has looked really good getting chances and goals as well as creatign stuff from the middle.

I don't have any links but I read an article in some paper (not Sun, Star, Mirror, might be the Independent) that show the stats on Gerrard playing on the right and in the middle. If memory serves me right it showed he scores slightly less when on the right but gets more assists. The big one was Liverpool's win/game ratio was higher when he's on the right. I think those stats were from last season too.

As I said, I'v no links and memory is sketchy. Can anyone else back this up?

Also, well done Robbie. Nice to see him bag a pair.

LuckyLloyd

The thread has moved on to last night's match (get in Fowler), but I just want to throw in a word about Benitez and the chances of him bagging a title.

It seems that Benitez decided over the summer that the core squad available to him last season did not have the neccesary qualities to push on for a title. Alot of his purchases were made late in the summer - and he brought in too many additions, too late, to expect everything to gel within the first half of this season.

Benitez would surely have known that bringing in so many players in late July early August that would be competing for a starting place would have implications on the balance of the squad and their performance for this year. It seems very much to me as if he conciously wrote this season off in his head.

From a fan's perspective, I assume that the team will dramatically improve after Christmas and begin building a head of steam towards the close of the season (our four toughest away games are out of the way after all). If this does happen then we will be going into next season possibly only needing to add two or three good players to be in a stronger position for 2007 / 2008 than we were for 2005 / 2006. A case of one step back to take two steps forward if you will.

I think he needs time to complete this project - another two years after this season (i.e. the full term of his initial contract) seems fair. The good thing about Liverpool is that managers are generally given time to put long - term plans into place. Evans and Houllier got the club to a certain level but never really pushed on. You might argue that it looks as if this is the case with Benitez but I would take the view that the amount of players he bought in and the clear effort to change styles is an indication that he doesn't want things to stagnate - rather, he is aggressively trying to get the squad on to that next level.

I for one am willing to give him time. I remember saying in May 2005 that the Champions league would satisfy me for a few years. Nothing has changed since then. I definately am patient enough to let Benitez do his thing and see where we end up at the end of it.

cruiserweight

Bacchus wrote:

I don't have any links but I read an article in some paper (not Sun, Star, Mirror, might be the Independent) that show the stats on Gerrard playing on the right and in the middle. If memory serves me right it showed he scores slightly less when on the right but gets more assists. The big one was Liverpool's win/game ratio was higher when he's on the right. I think those stats were from last season too.

As I said, I'v no links and memory is sketchy. Can anyone else back this up?

Also, well done Robbie. Nice to see him bag a pair.

You might be referring to this article be Paul Tomkins on the Liverpool website

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG153949061101-1229.htm

missingtime

Reds set sights on rising star
By Kent Hedlundh - Created on 8 Dec 2006

GERRARD A YEAR IN MY LIFE DVD GERRARD A YEAR IN MY LIFE DVD
A glimpse of Steven Gerrard, both on and off the field, as he takes us on a journey charting a year in his life. Save £4.00.
Related links
Team Pages:

* Liverpool

Falkenberg teenager Astrit Asdarevic believes he is on the cusp of winning a deal with Liverpool.

The 16-year-old has just returned from a second trial with The Reds and is reported to have impressed the club's academy coaches.

"I got the impression that they want me to move there as soon as possible," Asdarevic told Hallands Nyheter. "It went really well."

Asdarevic admits he has been overwhelmed with the recent chain of events and is in two minds over which path to take.

"I have just returned from England and it's hard to consider everything right now," he added.

"I am very keen to go. It's a world-class club and I could get a chance that might never come back, so it's hard to reject it.

"But at the same time, I am not sure if it will be the right choice. It might be better to play another season in Superettan.

"I don't know."

Did a bit of as search and he's a midfield playmaker aparently. He's on the sweeden u-17 team.

mike65

I thought he was Finnish or maybe thats yet another promising teenager!

Mike.

BolBill

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I for one am willing to give him time. I remember saying in May 2005 that the Champions league would satisfy me for a few years. Nothing has changed since then. I definately am patient enough to let Benitez do his thing and see where we end up at the end of it.

Totally agree mate, Im in the same boat.

Stky10

mike65 wrote:

I thought he was Finnish or maybe thats yet another promising teenager!

This is the lad you're thinking of

http://liverpoolfc.co.za/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1126051643/m/7981098303

With them, and potentially Jamie McCarthy (Hamilton Accies), Giles Barnes (Derby), Billy Clarke (Ipswich), Roy Jones (QPR) and a few more, added to the likes of Godwin Antwi, Miki Roque, Jack Hobbs, Paul Anderson etc, it looks like we're trying to do an Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea by buying up any youth kids that look anyway decent. Some will come through to the first team but the odds are most will fail and be sold off.

On one hand, its good because they're potentially very cheap stars of the future, and it shows Benitez is looking to the future when he'll hopefully still be in charge. On the other hand most will leave without even coming close to getting the same number of appearances as LeTallec or Pongolle who are now struggling to get games for the spanish and french equivalents of Charlton.

sweetie

Actually, Pongolle has scored 5 in ten games in spain.

Stky10

sweetie wrote:

Actually, Pongolle has scored 5 in ten games in spain.

Yeah, but of the 13 league games they've played, he's only started 6 and come on as sub in 5. And if you look at the rest of the squad, the only ones I'd ever heard of before is Javi Guerrero and Beto. Which was my point, he's not starting many games for a small club with no money to buy big name players.

Stky10

More evidence of net widening

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=21030