Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

MrJoeSoap

Stky10 wrote:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think he's crap and a hacker and his number of yellow/red cards back this up, as do the record of clubs he's played for.. Millwall and Blackeye Rovers

3 yellows and 1 red in 14 games this season isn't all that bad a record.

Stky10

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Yellow and red cards don't make him "crap and a hacker". Wayne Rooney and Roy Keane are/were noted for the frequency on which they pick up cards, yet I'd still welcome either with open arms to Liverpool.

Well I think Roy might be a bit past it at this stage. The difference with them though is that they had the ability to play and be a top player which thus inspires others around them. Do you seriously think the likes of Carra, Gerrard, Riise etc are going to be inspired by the likes of Neill?.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Neill is aggressive which means he picks up more cards than most. Aggression is a quality lacking throughout the Liverpool team, particularly with Sissoko out. Those are the qualities that win you those mid-week games at Bolton and Blackburn, the types that traditionally this Liverpool team has struggled in.

A single hacker like him wouldn't inspire the rest. He'd just be the new David Burrows. Sissoko is a top player, so the extra cards he gets are tolerable and are to be expected given the amount of tackles he's involved with and the amount of ground he covers. Neill isn't a top player. Neill isn't even close to being a top player. Maybe the history of Liverpool should be rewritten though to give David Burrows more credit for the huge part he played. Via the same logic he must have inspired all the more talented players around him.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well you are speculating as to his wages, there is a reasonably strong wage structure at Liverpool and I wouldn't say that Neill would get as much as £40K.

He's 28, soon to be 29, and he's coming up to a Bosman if he stays where is he till the summer. You don't think he's not lining himself up for a final big pay day especially when he knows the club is on the verge of a takeover by a billionaire?. And if Gerrard is on 100 grand a week, and Djimi Traore was supposedly on approx 40, and god only knows what Salif Diao is on, but nobody else is willing to offer anyway near it, we still have a "reasonably strong wage structure"?.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

At whatever price he would be, it would be a good piece of business. To be honest I'd trust Rafa Benitez's and Johan Neeskens' (not to mention my own) judgement over your own, seeing as you are prepared to judge a player on the number of cards he has got in his career and the clubs he has played for and what appears to be little else..

You didn't answer the question. Do you think its reasonable to pay that amount of money in transfer fee and wages to a player of his talents, and do you see him as a starter or a squad player. If you would be happy to see the club pay 7million or so in fees and wages for a 28 year old reserve then fine. And if you believe that they should have Neill as the first choice then fine. With the level of chasm in opinion there would be no point in continuing this further, but I'd just like to know.

And the quote from Johan Neeskens came from working with Australia at the world cup. He probably talked up the entire squad at some stage (see quote below). If he reckoned he was so good, strange then that Barca didn't sign him post world cup. And the quote came after he marked Ronaldinho out of it in the match between Australia and Brazil. The only problem being that Ronaldinho had a stinker of a world cup, and could probably have been marked out of it by pretty much anyone.

"He has already shown with his club [Blackburn Rovers] he is a player for a very high level. He could play for any of the best clubs. Other players, too.""

http://www.smh.com.au/news/aussie-update/neill-good-enough-for-barca-neeskens/2006/06/21/1150845244340.html

And you don't think clubs look at a players disciplinary record before deciding whether to buy or not?. And you don't think clubs look at a players previous clubs and the approach these clubs take?. They'd be pretty crap at their job if they didn't.

Time will tell, maybe they will sign him and maybe they won't. If they do it should be only as a squad player, otherwise he'll get slaughtered.

event

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Frank Rjikaard's assistant is a known admirer of Neill. So it's not all agent talk.

Josemi had problems settling in England to do with the language and his family. Kronkamp was solid if unspectacular, but hardly a failure in his breif stint at Liverpool. Neill has been solid for the last four years at Premiership and European level. So I don't see your point?

he has been solid for the last 4 years at european level?

he has played 9 games in europe with blackburn!!

anyway, my point is that i dont see the point in signing a 28 year old right back for back up when you already have a 30 year old right back who starts

MrJoeSoap

He had a great World Cup, if that counts for anything. And he played centre back.

Stky10

MrJoeSoap wrote:

3 yellows and 1 red in 14 games this season isn't all that bad a record.

Its 4 Yellows and 1 red.. in a third of the season..

In 16 games this season Finnan has 1 yellow

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=8891&cc=5739

Chardee MacDennis

you gotta love Cisse's enthusiasm for whatever club he plays for and his passion for the game, its nice to see a player like him in todays game.

thrilled he's back playing and did very well last night. realistically we are not gonna get more the 4/5m for him - i wouldnt be against hanging on to him if he has a good season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6166381.stm

~Rebel~

On Neil, id be happy with neil as cover for the back as he's still pretty cheap, and would be able to cover any of the back 4 positions, as well as adding steal.

I consider him a pretty solid consistant, if not exactly dazzling performer, perfect as a stand in.

In reality how much less would the wages be of someone we went and bought for 3 million be say? maybe get away with paying hem 20 or 30 grand a year. Im sure Neil would except 30 a year as well. its still not exactly peanuts! When you mention wages of a 4 year term everyone sounds dear! if we keep him for 2 years and sell him on would make most of the money back. If we got him a million i think it would be worth it.


On Other news;
NEWCASTLE INTERESTED IN CROUCHY:

Crouch has been linked with a possible switch to St James' Park and now Roeder has admitted he is an admirer of the 25-year-old.

"I am an admirer of the way Peter Crouch plays and the fact is that he also scores goals," said Roeder

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=434804&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=3&title=Toon+confirm+Crouch+interest

Wouldnt like to sell him but if they throw newcastle's usual silly money at us might be worth taking.

Or a swap deal for Owen when he's fit again.

Vokes

Call_me_al wrote:

you gotta love Cisse's enthusiasm for whatever club he plays for and his passion for the game, its nice to see a player like him in todays game.

thrilled he's back playing and did very well last night. realistically we are not gonna get more the 4/5m for him - i wouldnt be against hanging on to him if he has a good season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6166381.stm

Its a rumoured 8mil pound permanent deal

Though, I still think it'd be a shame to see him go.

mike65

Glad for Cisse but he'll never play for Pool again. As for Newcastle after Crouch - well thats just stoopid (doubt l'd have said that a year back)!

Mike.

Zapp Brannigan

I wouldn't be too sad to see Crouchie go tbh. We could replace him without too much trouble.
I have to say I'm glad to see Cissé back playing. I always liked him as a player, though I'd say he'll never play for us again after that interview he gave, moaning about Rafa.

el rabitos

whats with all the cisse love? he's dire

he beats one, beats two, powers past the 3rd defender with only the keeper to beat and WHAM, he knocks the corner flag into the 4th row, what a talent, 12 million? worth at least 25.

crouch offers a completely different option than most other teams have, he shouldnt start every game, but he's a better player to have in the squad than cisse.

Guy:Incognito

Yeah, you gotta love his unique (read awful) crossing technique when playing on the right: walk the ball up to the defender, taking about 25 touches, flivk it to the right and either cannon it into the defender or halfway up the stand.


He sure can hit the ball hard tho.

Jivin Turkey

Stky10 wrote:

Well I think Roy might be a bit past it at this stage. The difference with them though is that they had the ability to play and be a top player which thus inspires others around them. Do you seriously think the likes of Carra, Gerrard, Riise etc are going to be inspired by the likes of Neill?

Inspired? Maybe not, but you can be damn sure the likes of Gerrard and Carragher would be the first over slapping him on the back when he crunches someone like Ronaldo five minutes into a big game. Can you imagine Finnan ever doing that?

I never said Neill will be the glue that will hold the team together, but seeing as he can play anywhere across the backline I do think he could be an important player. While not be first XI with everyone fit, as a result of his versatility, he’d be sure to start 30 odd games a year.

Stky10 wrote:

A single hacker like him wouldn't inspire the rest. He'd just be the new David Burrows. Sissoko is a top player, so the extra cards he gets are tolerable and are to be expected given the amount of tackles he's involved with and the amount of ground he covers. Neill isn't a top player. Neill isn't even close to being a top player. Maybe the history of Liverpool should be rewritten though to give David Burrows more credit for the huge part he played. Via the same logic he must have inspired all the more talented players around him.

I fail to see what David Burrows has to do with anything, mind you he has more English league championship medals than any of the current Liverpool players.

Stky10 wrote:

He's 28, soon to be 29, and he's coming up to a Bosman if he stays where is he till the summer. You don't think he's not lining himself up for a final big pay day especially when he knows the club is on the verge of a takeover by a billionaire?. And if Gerrard is on 100 grand a week, and Djimi Traore was supposedly on approx 40, and god only knows what Salif Diao is on, but nobody else is willing to offer anyway near it, we still have a "reasonably strong wage structure"?

Yes I do think Liverpool currently have a reasonably strong wage structure.

Stky10 wrote:

You didn't answer the question. Do you think its reasonable to pay that amount of money in transfer fee and wages to a player of his talents, and do you see him as a starter or a squad player. If you would be happy to see the club pay 7million or so in fees and wages for a 28 year old reserve then fine. And if you believe that they should have Neill as the first choice then fine. With the level of chasm in opinion there would be no point in continuing this further, but I'd just like to know.

I answered your question by saying you are speculating as to the cost, but I don’t think 6-7M all inclusive is excessive for a player of Neill’s talents over three or four years.

Stky10 wrote:

And the quote from Johan Neeskens came from working with Australia at the world cup.

Where he got to see the player close up for the first time.

Stky10 wrote:

If he reckoned he was so good, strange then that Barca didn't sign him post world cup.

Well he hadn’t rejected his contract offer at that time, and once he did Barca were linked.

Stky10 wrote:

And the quote came after he marked Ronaldinho out of it in the match between Australia and Brazil. The only problem being that Ronaldinho had a stinker of a world cup, and could probably have been marked out of it by pretty much anyone.

So this “hacker” in your own words “marked Ronaldinho out of it”, but that could have been done by pretty much anyone? Of course :rolleyes:

Stky10 wrote:

"He has already shown with his club [Blackburn Rovers] he is a player for a very high level. He could play for any of the best clubs. Other players, too.""

Never hear of Tim Cahill?

Stky10 wrote:

And you don't think clubs look at a players disciplinary record before deciding whether to buy or not?. And you don't think clubs look at a players previous clubs and the approach these clubs take?. They'd be pretty crap at their job if they didn't.

Of course they would look at disciplinary records, but I don’t think Neill’s record is anything to get worried about. Four red cards in six years of top flight football is hardly excessive. And so what if he gets booked regularly?

He is not a bad tackler, just a tough cynical one. The type of player that Liverpool have lacked for years. Clubs would only be concerned with disciplinary issues if they were off the pitch, or if they could not control themselves on it.

Stky10 wrote:

Time will tell, maybe they will sign him and maybe they won't. If they do it should be only as a squad player, otherwise he'll get slaughtered.

Well like I said, I don’t think he’d be first choice, but given his versatility he’d still play a lot of games. He’s been a consistent performer for Blackburn for six years at the top level. He was excellent in the World Cup, in all games not just the one where he “marked Ronaldinho out of it”.

For such a small, if any, transfer fee, it would be a shrewd piece of business for any Premiership side.

mike65

Whoa, that was long enough the first time!

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

What are you talking about mike?

woodyg

Lucas Neill is a good player for a mid table team, he is not how ever a good player for a top team!
So the money should not be wasted on him, investment is needed in other areas.

Xavi6

woodyg wrote:

Lucas Neill is a good player for a mid table team, he is not how ever a good player for a top team!
So the money should not be wasted on him, investment is needed in other areas.

Lucas Neill is a quality player and worthy of a place in ANY Premiership squad (yes that includes Chelsea and United). He was one of the top performing centre halves in the World Cup (just after Cannavaro imo) but I feel he gets overlooked for praise he deserves due to the unfashionable country he plays for. If any England defender performed as well as he did in the tournament the transfer speculation would been of Hargreaves proportions and the nation would have a new hero.

The fact that he can be obtained at a cheaper price due to his contract being up in six months is a great incentive to sign him. As for the people saying he is after one last big pay day, that's a joke. He's not even 29 yet so therefore has another four years at least in him at the top level.

Stky10

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Inspired? Maybe not, but you can be damn sure the likes of Gerrard and Carragher would be the first over slapping him on the back when he crunches someone like Ronaldo five minutes into a big game. Can you imagine Finnan ever doing that?

You think so?. Well if he got booked five minutes into the game for said tackle which meant that he'd have to spend the rest of the game standing off Ronaldo so as to not to get sent off I don't think they'd be so happy. I don't think Rafa would be too happy either. Face it, any decent team that spots that the opposition team has a full back booked after 5 minutes would target the same player for the rest of the match. It might not be shown up so much at Blackburn where there are probably weaker targets than him, but in a decent team it would be an opportunity to exploit. Can you imagine the likes of Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson looking at a back four that he was in with lets say along with Carra, Agger and Riise, and not thinking that he'd be the most likely weak link?

And I don't want a team of crunchers and cloggers. I want a team of players. By your logic we'd be better off going back to the days of Ruddock and Dicks. I want us to play like Barcelona or Ajax, not Watford.

Finnan is a good player that has served us well in both defense and going forward. Why would we want to replace one of the top 5 defenders in the UK with a slightly upmarket version of Kevin Muscat?

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?command=forwardOnly&nextPage=actimTop5&type=Defender

Jivin Turkey wrote:

he’d be sure to start 30 odd games a year.

God save us

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I fail to see what David Burrows has to do with anything

I would have thought it pretty obvious. He is the last full back that I can remember us having that regularly got booked, and for the most stupid of tackles. He probably racked up the 12-15 yellow cards a season that Neill does.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well he hadn’t rejected his contract offer at that time, and once he did Barca were linked.

Still gave them loads of time to sign him up, as well as the "Other players, too." that he mentioned but that they didn't sign either. Might be because they were still in with a chance of qualifying from the group when he made the remarks and they were meant as encouragement. Check out their squad for the world cup and show me one player that made a move to a top club after the world cup finished. Cos I've just checked it and I can't see any. So it looks like the top coaches don't think much of Neeskens opinions.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

So this “hacker” in your own words “marked Ronaldinho out of it”, but that could have been done by pretty much anyone? Of course :rolleyes:

I was paraphrasing the content of the article quoted. I don't particularly remember how Neill played against Ronaldinho. But... the other teams Brazil played in the world cup.. Croatia, Japan, Ghana, France... they all marked Ronaldinho out of it as well as Australia did. So for Neeskens to praise Neill for doing such a good job on Ronaldinho is pretty faint praise with the form Ronaldinho was in at the time. Maybe we should track down who played right back for Croatia that night they played Brazil. He might not be 28 going on 29 with a disciplinary problem. Or be a hacker.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Never hear of Tim Cahill?

Good player. Still at Everton. No talk of him moving that I know of.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Of course they would look at disciplinary records, but I don’t think Neill’s record is anything to get worried about. Four red cards in six years of top flight football is hardly excessive. And so what if he gets booked regularly?

See above. Consistently getting booked will make him a target for opposing teams since they know he won't be able to defend like he would like. Think of the margin between success and failure. It can be very small. Having someone that teams can target like that could be that margin.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

He is not a bad tackler, just a tough cynical one. The type of player that Liverpool have lacked for years. Clubs would only be concerned with disciplinary issues if they were off the pitch, or if they could not control themselves on it.

You seriously think that a manager wouldn't be pissed with a player that racks up 12-14 yellow cards a season and so makes himself unavailable for however many matches?

Whatever. We can argue this till the end of never, and we're still going to have the same opinions we do now. Its an exercise in futility.

Xavi6

Stky10 wrote:

I want us to play like Barcelona or Ajax, not Watford.

Would this be the same Barcelona that have the been heavily linked with a move for Neill in the recent past? If so then by signing Neill you are getting a player of Barcelona-esque ability, therefore making you play more like them....

Stky10

Xavi6 wrote:

As for the people saying he is after one last big pay day, that's a joke. He's not even 29 yet so therefore has another four years at least in him at the top level.

He's 29 in March. Players can slow down dramatically in their 30's, look how slow Hyppia has become in the last two years and he only turned 33 in October.

But realistically, if he signs a 3-4 year deal, its going to be the last big deal he signs, so its probably going to be with whoever offers him the most lucrative deal. I'm not condemning him for that, I (and most people) would probably do the same in the circumstances.

Thats why I'm advocating a younger replacement/backup for Finnan, someone who can develop and be moulded in to the Liverpool way without costing so much and with a higher resell value if it doesn't work out. Look at Barragan for instance, we sold him at a good profit despite him only making 1-2 sub appearances.

Stky10

Xavi6 wrote:

Would this be the same Barcelona that have the been heavily linked with a move for Neill in the recent past? If so then by signing Neill you are getting a player of Barcelona-esque ability, therefore making you play more like them....

Barcelona probably get linked to 100 players each summer. He's probably linked to them by lazy journalists going on Neeskens old quote, or by his agent that was one of the main agents featured in the BBC program on agents a couple of months ago. He's nowhere near good enough for Barcelona. You think they'd leave Zambrotta/Thuram/Belletti on the bench to play Neill?

Xavi6

Stky10 wrote:

You think they'd leave Zambrotta/Thuram/Belletti on the bench to play Neill?

Of course not but Thuram is 34 and not going to play every game, Belletti hasn't done much this year and Zambrotta's versitility means he can play at left back or in midfield if required. Neill would be a cover player, but a good one.

Also, Liverpool aren't Barcelona, not even close. He's certainly good enough for the first XI.

woodyg

Xavi6 wrote:

Lucas Neill is a quality player and worthy of a place in ANY Premiership squad (yes that includes Chelsea and United). He was one of the top performing centre halves in the World Cup (just after Cannavaro imo) but I feel he gets overlooked for praise he deserves due to the unfashionable country he plays for. If any England defender performed as well as he did in the tournament the transfer speculation would been of Hargreaves proportions and the nation would have a new hero.

The fact that he can be obtained at a cheaper price due to his contract being up in six months is a great incentive to sign him. As for the people saying he is after one last big pay day, that's a joke. He's not even 29 yet so therefore has another four years at least in him at the top level.

Neil isnt a quality right back never mind centre half! I can understand the logic in getting cover for the right back spot, but what i cant understand is buying some one like him! he's a mid table player playing for a mid table team.
If were looking for cover/long term replacement for finnan we have to think of higher quality.

MrJoeSoap

woodyg wrote:

If were looking for cover/long term replacement for finnan we have to think of higher quality.

Such as?

woodyg

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Such as?

Well there Alves, Cicinhio, Lahm, Kew Jaliens, Miguel, Manuel Pasqual, i'm sure there are a couple more.

Xavi6

woodyg wrote:

Well there Alves, Cicinhio, Lahm, Kew Jaliens, Miguel, Manuel Pasqual, i'm sure there are a couple more.

You want cover at full back and you went for Cicinho?! Probably the least defensive full back going after Carlos. Not a hope of getting Lahm or Miguel either.

I think Loverpool fans need to be a bit more realistic about their club. Chelsea and United are always going to get the best players (your Lahms, Miguels etc), and if they don't then Arsenal will. Liverpool are the fourth choice team. I think the snobbery shown here towards a player from a mid table club is ridiculous. "He plays for Blackburn he's not good enough for us".

Zapp Brannigan

Isn't Miguel nearly 30?

EDIT: Whoopsie, he's actually soon to turn 27.

~Rebel~

woodyg wrote:

Well there Alves, Cicinhio, Lahm, Kew Jaliens, Miguel, Manuel Pasqual, i'm sure there are a couple more.

The tempting thing about Neil is that he wont cost an arm and a leg, while still being solid and consistent, and very very importantly, probably wont expect to be starting as first choice. If any of thsoe above were selected then thats the end of Finnan, which i think is kind of pointless really considering his quality.


Were Pool to go for Neil i would imagine this would be the plan;
Buy him now for almost nothing, give him decent wages on a 4 year deal, then after say 2 years of that sell him probably recouping most of the wage and buying cost, and bring in an actual replacement for Finnan.

Dont forget everyone that for next to nothing in a years time we can buy back a matured (and so far playing well) Antonio Barragan

PiE

Xavi6 wrote:

I think Loverpool fans need to be a bit more realistic about their club. Chelsea and United are always going to get the best players (your Lahms, Miguels etc), and if they don't then Arsenal will.

Yea, 'cos Utd and Arsenal have been snapping up aaaall the major talent.

There's Chelsea and then there's the rest. The difference between the rest is irrelevant when Chelsea's pulling power is so much stronger.

Jivin Turkey

Stky10 wrote:

You think so?. Well if he got booked five minutes into the game for said tackle which meant that he'd have to spend the rest of the game standing off Ronaldo so as to not to get sent off I don't think they'd be so happy. I don't think Rafa would be too happy either. Face it, any decent team that spots that the opposition team has a full back booked after 5 minutes would target the same player for the rest of the match. It might not be shown up so much at Blackburn where there are probably weaker targets than him, but in a decent team it would be an opportunity to exploit.

Well seeing as he manages to pick up double figures in bookings a season on average and couples that with less than one red, I'd be confident enough in his ability to curb his enthusiasm.

And what if he didn't get booked for said tackle? It's moments like that that can get an entire team fired up for the battle ahead. Neill is a good tackler and plenty of time gets big hits in that are perfectly above board.

Stky10 wrote:

Can you imagine the likes of Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson looking at a back four that he was in with lets say along with Carra, Agger and Riise, and not thinking that he'd be the most likely weak link?

I don't know, you'd have to ask him. But you could be damn sure that they'd all agree that he would be the one most likely to match either Drogba or Adebayor or even Rooney in a physical battle.

Stky10 wrote:

And I don't want a team of crunchers and cloggers. I want a team of players. By your logic we'd be better off going back to the days of Ruddock and Dicks. I want us to play like Barcelona or Ajax, not Watford.

As do I. But I (and I don't think you do) don't think that the addition of Neill would transform the team into a bunch of crunchers and cloggers. He'd add steel that the team have traditionally missed.

As a Liverpool fan, think back to the amount of times in the last three years that you've seen anaemic performances away from home, showing little if no desire or aggression?

Stky10 wrote:

Finnan is a good player that has served us well in both defense and going forward. Why would we want to replace one of the top 5 defenders in the UK with a slightly upmarket version of Kevin Muscat?

God save us

Finnan is more than a good player, he is a fantastic player, and I wouldn't even consider replacing him. But again you've missed the point, Neill can play across the back line, and hence is a very useful squad player, and would probably play in excess of 30 games a year as a result.

Stky10 wrote:

I would have thought it pretty obvious. He is the last full back that I can remember us having that regularly got booked, and for the most stupid of tackles. He probably racked up the 12-15 yellow cards a season that Neill does.

Well for a start you've already mentioned a more recent one in Julian Dicks so I don't see why it is so obvious. I'd also like to add that Burrows left in 1993, a time when you didn't see a quarter of the amount of yellow cards you did today. In fact I'd say he got less than 10 cards in his whole Liverpool career knowing what football was like back then.

You seem to just want to drop names of all the stereotypical "defensive crunchers" you can think of, almost like you are trying to impress someone. I'd suggest you actually watch Lucas Neill play a bit before you compare him to the others because I fail to understand how he can be like Burrows (a pacy fullback) and Ruddock (an overweight bus of a centre half) at the same time.

Stky10 wrote:

Still gave them loads of time to sign him up, as well as the "Other players, too." that he mentioned but that they didn't sign either. Might be because they were still in with a chance of qualifying from the group when he made the remarks and they were meant as encouragement. Check out their squad for the world cup and show me one player that made a move to a top club after the world cup finished. Cos I've just checked it and I can't see any. So it looks like the top coaches don't think much of Neeskens opinions.

Well it appears that Barcelona may still be keeping their options open.

http://fcbarcelona-spain.blogspot.com/2006/10/barcelona-is-after-australian-lucas.html

A quote from an article two months ago.

You also seem to think that good players can't be playing at average clubs. Tim Cahill is one that I'm sure if he were to come available would be on his way so someone like Manchester United. There are plenty of great players plying their trades with smaller clubs.

Stky10 wrote:

You seriously think that a manager wouldn't be pissed with a player that racks up 12-14 yellow cards a season and so makes himself unavailable for however many matches?

I think any manager who signed him would know what they are getting themselves in for. He'd only miss three matches I think also to answer your question.

Stky10 wrote:

Whatever. We can argue this till the end of never, and we're still going to have the same opinions we do now. Its an exercise in futility.

That's because you seem to be judging him without seeing him play much. I can conclude that from the points you are making against him. All you seem to be doing is comparing him with big defensive bulk from the past, and of course David Burrows that pacy full back who got booked in a few games of his 150 odd Liverpool career.

If you are going to come on and say he's crap at least criticise attributes of his game (i.e. his pace/ball control (not that either are bad)) as opposed ot garbage like "he's a hacker". We are not in the schoolyard here.

PHB

Can you imagine the likes of Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson looking at a back four that he was in with lets say along with Carra, Agger and Riise, and not thinking that he'd be the most likely weak link?

I'd think Riise was the weakest link there, then Agger, then Neill, then Carragher. I'd almost 100% sure Fergie would agree with me, although he might swap Riise and Agger.

Agger is still a kid, Riise is up and down defensivly, Neill has been solid at a premiership club for about 5 years, and was outstanding in the WC. He kept Ronaldinho in his pocket. You can say all you want about how Ronaldinho was playing poorly, but I think there are about 5 defenders in the world who can say they have kept Ronaldinho in their pocket.

That said, I think he might be off to Barca or maybe Chelsea in January considering their defensive squad isn't that strong.

Nalz

PHB wrote:

That said, I think he might be off to Barca or maybe Chelsea in January considering their defensive squad isn't that strong.

Ya what? Agger your talking about?

MrJoeSoap

PHB wrote:

You can say all you want about how Ronaldinho was playing poorly, but I think there are about 5 defenders in the world who can say they have kept Ronaldinho in their pocket.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5317512.stm

2017: Ronaldinho twice tries to get past Gareth Bale with some fancy moves but twice fails as the 17-year-old Welshman takes the ball off his toes. I bet he can't wait to give his friends a call after this match. "Oh, sorry to interrupt your homework mate, just wanted to tell you what I did today."

http://bodinsleftboot.welshblogs.co.uk/2006/09/bale_and_wales_almost_brazilia.html

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10048571&postcount=455

~Rebel~

Trilla wrote:

Ya what? Agger your talking about?

Id imagine he means Lucas Neil

Stky10

Wonder might this be us instead of spurs

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=435065&CPID=112&clid=241&lid=2&title=Race+on+for+Anderlecht+ace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Vanden_Borre

MrJoeSoap

Lucas can chip in with a goal or two as well...

kinaldo

Stky10 wrote:

. By your logic we'd be better off going back to the days of Ruddock and Dicks.

Julian Dicks is a fúcking legend.

redspider

Lots of debate on this thread !
Not sure I can keep up with all the points being made.

I think its a difficult choice when deciding which position is our greatest need. A manager has to decide where his team is the weakest. This is why being a manager is not an easy job as the choice is not easy.

If you look at the front players, Crouch, Kuijt, Bellamy, Fowler, we seem to be passable in that department at least for the moment. But none of them are 'world class'.

Midfield is our strongest, especially centre, with Gerrard and Alono, and Sissoko when he is fit. When all 3 are available, Rafa has been playing Gerrard out wide left or right, and that has reduced our need for better outside midfield players. Garcia, Pennant and Gonzalez are okay in these positions but none of them are world class. For me, these are currently our weakest positions and it would be good to see a 'world class' player come in. That of course leaves Rafa with the problem of who to drop from the centre-3.

The best player in defence is Jamie Carragher. Finnan is solid enough and Riise can do a job and offers something in attack, Warnock is just about okay as a cover. Hyypia is going off and Agger is good but still raw at times.

As things stand I would say to spend money for a good wide midfielder, either side. Of course, another option I would like to see tried would be to play Bellamy wide right. He is fast enough and surely would relish such a role and has the skill and speed.

Who to buy in? Well, I certainly dont know. Each prospective player would need to be studied in detail, and there are many potential players out there.

Redspider

Nalz

Valencia step up Reina hunt

rondeco

PHB wrote:

I'd think Riise was the weakest link there, then Agger, then Neill, then Carragher. I'd almost 100% sure Fergie would agree with me, although he might swap Riise and Agger.

Agger is still a kid, Riise is up and down defensivly, Neill has been solid at a premiership club for about 5 years, and was outstanding in the WC. He kept Ronaldinho in his pocket. You can say all you want about how Ronaldinho was playing poorly, but I think there are about 5 defenders in the world who can say they have kept Ronaldinho in their pocket.

That said, I think he might be off to Barca or maybe Chelsea in January considering their defensive squad isn't that strong.

Lucas Neill will join in january. Put your money on it.

BlackWizard

redspider wrote:

As things stand I would say to spend money for a good wide midfielder, either side. Of course, another option I would like to see tried would be to play Bellamy wide right. He is fast enough and surely would relish such a role and has the skill and speed.

This has been said over and over for years now. Nothing has happened but the
purchasing of average premiership players.

I dislike Pennant. If only he could up his work rate and show he can be a team
player. At least Garcia does this.

TheMonster

rondeco wrote:

Lucas Neill will join in january. Put your money on it.

its not often I agree with JT especailly when it comes to Liverpool:D but I think Neill would be a good addition to the squad. This is a backup for Finnan, however I think he could well displace him as first choice. He wouldn't cost a lot. Hes probably not the right choice if he is to be his long term replacement.

Cyrus

the neill deal will be stalled i would imagine to see if there is any DIC money before the end of the window, if that comes i doubt neill will be first choice

futuredeath

i'd have neill over alves anyway.
neill is a good player i can't actually see why people wouldnt want him in the squad and while i rate finnan very highly i wouldn't be shocked to see him usurped if neill joined.

el rabitos

futuredeath wrote:

i'd have neill over alves anyway.

how often have you seen alves play?

The Rooster

Liverpool Christmas Party Pics



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52499091#post52499091

MrJoeSoap

Top notch stuff there Rooster!

LizardKing

The Rooster wrote:

Liverpool Christmas Party Pics



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52499091#post52499091

Who's Xabi meant to be ??

MrJoeSoap

LizardKing wrote:

Who's Xabi meant to be ??

Was thinking that myself, looks a bit like the Barca away kit!

The Rooster

Not sure what Riise is at dressing up as a manc

Surprised Abel Xavier was invited

PS Is there a rule against posting images on this forum?
doesnt say it in the charter, but still it wouldnt let me, so I had to use a different board.