Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

gary the great

It said in one of the rags today that Rafa will get 250million euro to spend on players as soonas gillet and the other buy the club.

Dont know how much truth is in that.

Guy:Incognito

It's more than likely that a decimal point got lost somewhere between the editor and the printer.

jesus_thats_gre

250 million would be rediculous and lead to another Chelsea like situation.

25 million a year would be pretty reasonable as it would facilitate the purchase of a single quality player and 1 or 2 young players for the future. The first transfer window under new ownership will hopefully see 2 or 3 genuinely quality players brought in (1 right winger, 1 left winger and possibly 1 striker) and then a settling down to the 25 million a year afterwards.

Pennant, Bellamy et all were not Rafa's first choices. They were bought out of necessity, with a strict budget, to do a job. We all know who his first choices were and we also know the finances didn't stretch that far.

With a decent bit of money, Rafa can bring in his first choices and use the above players as backup and in rotation. They are of a sufficient level to be used in this capacity. If they do not like it, they can be sold.

el rabitos

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

250 million would be rediculous and lead to another Chelsea like situation.

25 million a year would be pretty reasonable as it would facilitate the purchase of a single quality player and 1 or 2 young players for the future. The first transfer window under new ownership will hopefully see 2 or 3 genuinely quality players brought in (1 right winger, 1 left winger and possibly 1 striker) and then a settling down to the 25 million a year afterwards.

Pennant, Bellamy et all were not Rafa's first choices. They were bought out of necessity, with a strict budget, to do a job. We all know who his first choices were and we also know the finances didn't stretch that far.

With a decent bit of money, Rafa can bring in his first choices and use the above players as backup and in rotation. They are of a sufficient level to be used in this capacity. If they do not like it, they can be sold.

agree with all that myself

personally i'd like the club to keep any talk of a transfer budget to a minimum, it would only inflate prices if the club shows its hand in regards to its spending power after any take over. i dont think theres any danger of rafa over spending for a player weather the money is there or not. there wont be any stupid carrick or hargreaves kinds of bids thrown around imo.

the club has bought alot of slightly above average players, but sprinkle in a couple of real quality players in a couple of positions and the club has a very strong squad.

and hopefully the players brought in are at a mininmum, 2 or 3 for the main squad at most. then a few youth players for the reserve team. bojan and/or iago at barca would be nice

Malice

Daemonic wrote:

For a more or less full strength Liverpool team it seemed depressingly lacking in quality.

I meant to respond to this earlier but forgot. Anyway, I think the loss of Luis Garcia will be keenly felt in these kind of games - stubborn defences requiring a little moment of magic. I definitely feel sorry for him that he won't be able to play against his former employers in the Champion's League.

PHB

They were bought out of necessity, with a strict budget, to do a job. We all know who his first choices were and we also know the finances didn't stretch that far.

Yeh, but it's about a choice you make, or whether or not you want one really good player, or 3-4 average players.

Just look at last summer,
Pennant 7 million
Bellamy 6.5 million
Kuyt Unknown but I'd say 6-10 million

That's 21.5 to 25.5 million spend last summer alone.

Overall, Beneitz pursued a policy based on the idea that every squad player bar 1-2 at the club were ****e, and has attempted to replace the entire squad. He has after a couple of years, done this, and now the majority of the first 11 are players that he brought in.
However because of this, he has been unable to splash out big on any players that could really improve the team.

Personally, I think this has been a flawed tactic. I would have argued that he should have kept the squad players he has had, and brought in either a big name signing, or two really good prospects every year. That's pretty much what United do, and to an extent, what Arsenal do.
For example, last summer we brought in Carrick. Obviously Carrick isn't a 'big name signing', but he was the player that Fergie really wanted and he was willing to spend the cash on him, and accept the fact that as a big club, you will get ripped off. However, in the transfer window before then, he brought in Vidic and Evra for less than 10 million in total. It's rare that both prospects would turn out well, normally only one does, but this sort of policy I think is the best way to produce a title winning squad.

I think Rafa has a big test this summer as to whether or not he bites the bullet, and pays over the odds for a real star, or continue with this policy of buying lots of average players. I think Liverpool are only 3 big signings away from challening for the title, but I think those signings will cost a lot of money, and I don't expect even one of them to be signed. I think Rafa will continue along the same policy, and purchase 2/3 average players in the positions he needs to be strengthed.
Rafa has had the same amount of money as Fergie, and probably more than Wenger.

copacetic

would be interested to compare the figures alright, utd seem to have spent a fortune on a lot of big name players some who make it some don't. Veron, Ferdinand and Rooney alone cost 90 million! add ronaldo, saha is another 25 mil. smith and heinze another 15 mil. carrick 15-18? would say most were quality BUT not sure at all that utd only buy quality players, short memory? djemba djemba for 3/4 million, bellion 2 mil? tim howard another couple, kleberson 6mil! thats 160 mil or so, I know it is over the last 5 years or so, but its a lot and am sure I have missed out a fair few too.

selective memory is something we all have but transfer market is difficult for everyone, so far Rafa is doing pretty well.

zing

Yes folks - we could have another twist after all ..
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rivals-could-team-up-in-new-bid-for-reds%26method=full%26objectid=18576664%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Whatever about a couple of yanks owning the team I'll say no to Morgan regardless of who he's potentially partnering with.

PHB

BUT not sure at all that utd only buy quality players, short memory? djemba djemba for 3/4 million, bellion 2 mil? tim howard another couple, kleberson 6mil!

They don't buy just buy top players, see quoted below

or two really good prospects every year.

owever, in the transfer window before then, he brought in Vidic and Evra for less than 10 million in total.

redspider

daveym wrote:

would be interested to compare the figures alright,

Yourself and PHB make some valid points.

Whats needed is a full analysis of all transfers a club have made, purchases as well as players sold, and also take into account how many years they have been signed for AND their salary costs for the duration of a contract. Work those out on a per annum basis, and that is the amount of money that clubs spend on players.

I havent seen a complete analysis yet. One problem is that actual players salaries are not published. Sure, we hear rumours, speculation, etc, and the players are paid well, yet these are not official figures. Also, clubs treat players registrations financially as assets and not current costs, so these figures are not easy to disentangle from the financial accounts. Also, some figures are conjecture and are also not disclosed by clubs. Players also re-negotiate contracts in mid-contract, and cost more. So just comparing what a club spends on players is not the actual measurement to compare.

For example, when Gerrard was speculating to leave Liverpool a few seasons ago and he was kept due to an increased salary level, this is not considered a purchase, yet it is clearly an increased spend the club has had to make. No doubt the same held for Henry, many of the Arsenal players and many of the Man Utd players.

Another example. Rooney is bought for 30m, yet, say he is at Man Utd for 8 years. That is a mere 30m/8 per annum, approx 3.75m per annum, yet his salary may be 40m in those 8 years, or more, for a total cost of 70m or more or about 8.75m pa or more.

I agree that Liverpool have been trying to get players in the lower range of 5-10m when transferring, and Man Utd have been able to spend big on a few. Its unclear though whether this is Rafa's thinking or the LFC Board. I think its more to do with the latter and Rafa has to work within it. He may at times put in a case of going for a recognised player but so far he hasnt been able to persuade the Board, if in fact he has made such an asessment with his staff.
Overall, in monetary terms, Man Utd has around double the revenue of Liverpool so can afford to splash out big on occasion, and also can afford to make more mistakes.

Both clubs though can find gems, which hopefully last. Evra and Vidic have come good for Man Utd this year, but Heinze has gone off the boil slightly. Silvestre is no longer flavour of the month. Van Nistelrooy went cheaply, as did Beckham. Liverpool have done well with Alonso, Kuyt seems to be doing okay and returning value for his rumoured cost.

No easy answers in the transfer market ....

Redspider

spockety

jonny24ie wrote:

I think the DIC deal was the best in the long term for LFC!!
Just something about it screamed "We care about the club" and Gillet will do a glazier on it now if he gets it!!

What's that? Push us to the top of the league?

gary the great

Is it true that Gerrard said he would leave if Morgan got ownership of the club?

copacetic

PHB wrote:

They don't buy just buy top players, see quoted below

may have been below the belt but ferguson has bought plenty of crap himself, and a lot that were not 'good prospects'.

every manager does, man u success in the transfer market has mainly been with big money signings.

PHB

I'm not claiming that Fergie hasn't bought his fair share of crap players, but when I said top players, I meant the expensive players that he wanted. e.g. Rooney, Van Nist, Veron. This is something that Rafa hasn't done

Jazzy

tbh, i agree with alot of what PHB originally said. except for the part about "3 star player signings and they could challenge". its just like, where did that magic number come from? if they made 4 would they definately win then?
it just seems too random a number.

I believe pool would challenge for the title in the past 2 seasons if they had just got their collective arses into gear in the first 2 months of the PL

PHB

I think they are lacking in a top class right winger, striker, and CB. Hence where the figure 3 came from

copacetic

PHB wrote:

I'm not claiming that Fergie hasn't bought his fair share of crap players, but when I said top players, I meant the expensive players that he wanted. e.g. Rooney, Van Nist, Veron. This is something that Rafa hasn't done

agreed, I think we disagree on whether Rafa had the budget. Fergie has bought the big names and plenty of others too. Rafa has only had the budget for the cheaper players. my feeling is that he was forced to clear out salaries etc to even get in these cheaper players.
Of course I don't have the figures to prove this, would love if someone proved me right (or even wrong, would just be good to have the info!)

Cyrus

PHB wrote:

I think they are lacking in a top class right winger, striker, and CB. Hence where the figure 3 came from

not sure i agree. If im correct liverpool have the leagues best defensive record, the centre backs are fine, carragher is very solid and agger is showing signs of true class.

While united have scored freely this year, chelsea and arsenal only have something 6 goals each more than liverpool at this point (this are teams with henry and drogba some of the prems top strikers) liverpools strikers are good quality players, service being the problem

Which means you are right about the right winger and in my opinion a left sided one aswell unless gonzalez improves or kewell comes back and gets some fomr back

Jazzy

Cyrus wrote:

kewell comes back and gets some fomr back

cha' right

Stky10

Adam Hammill continues to impress up in Scotland - Could save us money yet

http://aliverpoolthing.blogspot.com/2007/02/outstanding-youngster-continues-to.html

Paletta possibly going out on loan as well

http://www.eatsleepsport.com/news_details.aspx?story_id=509367&l_id=1&t_id=44

Hopefully we'll expand upon sending players out on loan, its much better for them I think that reserve team football.

Cyrus

Jazzy wrote:

cha' right

to be fair before his latest injury he looked to be improving.

Even at 70% hes a class act and gives the team a natural balance

PHB

not sure i agree. If im correct liverpool have the leagues best defensive record, the centre backs are fine, carragher is very solid and agger is showing signs of true class.

I do think Agger will be a good player, but he isn't there yet, and won't be top quality for maybe 2-3 years. Hyypia is past it. Liverpool need a new central defender, one with pace would be very useful.
Liverpool have the best defensive record, but against good teams, they have quite a poor one, having conceded against the top 8(United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bolton, Reading, Portsmouth, Everton) a total of 11 goals in 9 games.

Thats due to Agger and Hyypia not being up to scratch against good attackers, specifically fast attackers. Liverpool need a world class CB to partner Carragher.

While united have scored freely this year, chelsea and arsenal only have something 6 goals each more than liverpool at this point (this are teams with henry and drogba some of the prems top strikers) liverpools strikers are good quality players, service being the problem

While I do agree that service is a problem in some cases, How many chances has Crouch missed? Honastly, it's gotta be up there in the 50s! Bellamy has caught this disease aswell, just look at the Everton game. Kuyt is developing quite a lot, and looks like a decent player, but Liverpool lack a really good striker. Ultimately, if you look at United [Rooney + Saha], Arsenal [Henry + Van Persie], and Chelseas [Drogba + Shevchenko] top 2 strikers only Kuyt comes close to that level, and he's not there yet. Liverpool need a top class striker who has the ability to bang in 20 goals as a season.

Which means you are right about the right winger and in my opinion a left sided one aswell unless gonzalez improves or kewell comes back and gets some fomr back

I believe that Gonzalez will come good next year after a year of adjusting to the premiership. He was electric in La Liga last season, and I think it just takes time for players to adjust.
RW is a problem, and it needs to be addressed.

With a new CB, RW, and Striker, let's just say, Ayala, Joaquin, and Villa, as the examples that came to my head first, you'd have a first 11 of,

---

Reina

---

Finnan-Carragher-Ayala-Riise
Joaquin-Gerrard-Alonso-Gonzalez

---

Kuyt-Villa

---

With cover in defense from Agger, Aureilo,
Cover in midfield from Pennant, Zenden, Garcia, Kewell, Sissoko
Cover in attack in terms of Bellamy, Crouch and Fowler.

That's a squad that'll challenge for the league. 3 top players in those positions would make Liverpool a very good team. But those top players will cost a hell of a lot of money, money that I don't think any club bar Chelsea has. Rafa has wasted money on players like Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy that will ultimately only ever be the 2nd best person in the position in a team challenging for league honours, and it's resulted in a lack of any real big name signings that can transform the team.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

I'm not claiming that Fergie hasn't bought his fair share of crap players, but when I said top players, I meant the expensive players that he wanted. e.g. Rooney, Van Nist, Veron. This is something that Rafa hasn't done

Yes but you are not considering how or why United and Arsenal are in the position whereby they only need to and can purchase 1 or 2 big names players a season. It took United 15 years of stability to make this happen. Arsenal are also the exact same. Both clubs have a very stable squad that has been developed over the space of a decade.

Rafa on the otherhand has been at the club just over 2 years, cleared about 15 players out and bought players to replace them while also trying to improve the first team squad with a relatively limited budget. He signed Pennant but you know this was not his first choice. You also his first choices asking price was 3 times that of what he paid for Pennant in the end.

He bought Pennant and Bellamy et all out of necessity as there was gaping holes in the positions that those players ended up filling. Their addition to the squad has led to an overall improvement in the squad this season - provided more options and make us less dependent on individuals.

3 or 4 of the first team at Liverpool will slowely be relegated to squad players over the next season in the same way that players that were bought 2 years ago to do a job were farmed out pretty quickly for superior players.

2 years ago you had Traore, Warnock and Risse. Now you have Risse and Aureillio. You had Finnan and Josemi while now you have Finnan and the young fella they signed last week (wanted Lucas Neill also). You had Pellegrinio, Carragher and Hypia while now you have Carragher, Agger, Hypia and Palletta. You had Gerard, Hamann, Alonso, Diao, Garcia, Biscan and Murphy while now you have Gerard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Garcia and Zenden.

Similar changes has taken place every season in Liverpool across every position in the squad. These wholesale changes in personal have been used as contributing factors in Liverpool having very poor starts to the season for every year that Rafa has been in charge.

So to my point. He should now be relatively happy with the squad has his influence is now apparent in every position on and off the pitch. Now there should also be looser restrictions on how much money is available for transfers, you should now see Rafa buying the players he wants for the first team and players that many people have doubts over will assume a more realistic position in the squad.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

I think they are lacking in a top class right winger, striker, and CB. Hence where the figure 3 came from

Agree in part. They are fine at CB in my opinion. A world class striker, right winger and left winger are needed.

PHB

So to my point. He should now be relatively happy with the squad has his influence is now apparent in every position on and off the pitch. Now there should also be looser restrictions on how much money is available for transfers, you should now see Rafa buying the players he wants for the first team and players that many people have doubts over will assume a more realistic position in the squad.

It's a policy that, imo, means that because of Liverpools financial limits, that every team bar Chelsea have, they won't really be able to challenge properly for 2/3 years. He should have tried to get the best out of the players that Houllier had bought, and of course brought in players that he wanted, just at Wenger when he took over.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

With a new CB, RW, and Striker, let's just say, Ayala, Joaquin, and Villa, as the examples that came to my head first, you'd have a first 11 of,

---

Reina

---

Finnan-Carragher-Ayala-Riise
Joaquin-Gerrard-Alonso-Gonzalez

---

Kuyt-Villa

---

With cover in defense from Agger, Aureilo,
Cover in midfield from Pennant, Zenden, Garcia, Kewell, Sissoko
Cover in attack in terms of Bellamy, Crouch and Fowler.

That's a squad that'll challenge for the league. 3 top players in those positions would make Liverpool a very good team. But those top players will cost a hell of a lot of money, money that I don't think any club bar Chelsea has. Rafa has wasted money on players like Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy that will ultimately only ever be the 2nd best person in the position in a team challenging for league honours, and it's resulted in a lack of any real big name signings that can transform the team.

Am surprised that your line of thinking is as close to mine to be honest. I still insist that Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant etc are not wastes of money.

---

Reina

---

Carson, Dudek or whoever


--Finnan

---

Carragher

---

whoever

---

Riise--
Aurellio, Agger, Palletta and whoever provides cover for Finnan


--whoever

---

Gerrard

---

Alonso

---

Gonzalez--
Pennant, Garcia, Sissoko, Mascherano, Kewell, Zenden

---

whoever

---

Kuyt

---

Bellamy and Crouch

I decided not to try and second guess Rafa and left it at whoever and just added the squad players you could be used in rotation or as backup.

Pennant, Crouch and Bellamy are more than good enough to be on the bench or used in rotation. You cannot always have quality of the bench and O'Shea and Fletcher are perfect example of crude but effective squad players.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

It's a policy that, imo, means that because of Liverpools financial limits, that every team bar Chelsea have, they won't really be able to challenge properly for 2/3 years. He should have tried to get the best out of the players that Houllier had bought, and of course brought in players that he wanted, just at Wenger when he took over.

It is possible that Wenger was happy with the players that were in place when he took over. There is no doubt that there was considerably more dead wood at Liverpool when Rafa took over than there was at Arsenal when Wenger took over.

Chardee MacDennis

phb joaquin is havin nightmare of a season, and he is not the solution to our problem...

PHB

I'm not suggesting those 3 players, I was just using them as examples of the type of player. (Don't have Sky this year so can't watch La Liga)

LostinBlanch

There could also be problems playing Mascherano. It looks like West Ham could be docked points for playing him and Tevez. Both ineligible players under Rule U18 as Joorabchian who owns substantial interests in them, could be classed as a 3rd party owner. Something that is illegal under Premiership rules.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-23384200-details/Hammers%20fear%20points%20penalty/article.do

zing

PHB wrote:

Rafa has wasted money on players like Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy that will ultimately only ever be the 2nd best person in the position in a team challenging for league honours, and it's resulted in a lack of any real big name signings that can transform the team.

While I agree with most of what you're saying I think your use of the word 'wasted' is wrong here. As you've said yourself Rafa has been working within financial limits (i.e. a budget) and like everyone else who works within a budget he's had to make decisions as to how best to spend the money available to him at the time. And his choices were the likes of Pennant, Crouch & Bellamy - players who I honestly see as nothing more than stopgaps but they were the choices he made which he felt represented best value for his budget at the time. They may or may not have been his first choices for those positions but he needed players for these positions and these were the three he went with.

To say he wasted money would suggest he'd have been better off not buying them at the time which clearly was not an option as it would have left the team even weaker in certain areas.

I do feel though that the move for Pennant may almost have been out of desperation considering previous attempts to sign a decent right winger.

Since he arrived he's been on a squad rebuilding exercise and like most of you I think most of the pieces of the puzzle are in place now and am expecting to see less chopping/changing during the summer - instead splashing out on a couple of key signings. Of course players like Agger & Momo have shown you don't need to spend big to sign great players.

One thing I am happy about with Rafa is how much he's investing in young talents. It shows a clear commitment to long term plans on his part.

zing

As an aside to the impending big news story of the day Mascherano has started training at Melwood so they must be fairly confident on the FA rubber stamping the transfer shortly.
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=mascherano-is-training-with-reds%26method=full%26objectid=18583435%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

redspider

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

but you are not considering how or why United and Arsenal are in the position whereby they only need to and can purchase 1 or 2 big names players a season. It took United 15 years of stability to make this happen. Arsenal are also the exact same. Both clubs have a very stable squad that has been developed over the space of a decade.

Rafa on the otherhand has been at the club just over 2 years, cleared about 15 players out and bought players to replace them while also trying to improve the first team squad with a relatively limited budget.

2 years ago you had Traore, Warnock and Risse. Now you have Risse and Aureillio. You had Finnan and Josemi while now you have Finnan and the young fella they signed last week (wanted Lucas Neill also). You had Pellegrinio, Carragher and Hypia while now you have Carragher, Agger, Hypia and Palletta. You had Gerard, Hamann, Alonso, Diao, Garcia, Biscan and Murphy while now you have Gerard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Garcia and Zenden.

Similar changes has taken place every season in Liverpool across every position in the squad. These wholesale changes in personal have been used as contributing factors in Liverpool having very poor starts to the season for every year that Rafa has been in charge.

So to my point. He should now be relatively happy with the squad has his influence is now apparent in every position on and off the pitch. Now there should also be looser restrictions on how much money is available for transfers, you should now see Rafa buying the players he wants for the first team and players that many people have doubts over will assume a more realistic position in the squad.

Good post and I agree with most of that.

Benitez is changing the squad bit by bit each season. However, whether he is now in a position and has the financial backing to go for 'top drawer' replacements is another story. Will we be in the bidding war for the next Robinho? Maybe not. I think with the ground situation and the current ownership, he probably wont get backing for 20m buys, so its likely to be more 'tinkering' in the 5-10m range, and who knows, maybe a gem will come out of it.

The point about Man Utd and Arsenal building up a squad over more than a decade is true. But Man Utd certainly has more funds at its diposal and can easily spend more than Liverpool and Arsenal. Time can help you build a squad. How long it takes though is based on what money is available. I think Man Utd could build a new team if it wanted to every 3 years, Chelsea probably every 2. Liverpool and Arsenal is about the 5 year range, like most clubs.

The question for Liverpool fans will be, if after 4 seasons, Liverpool have finished 5th, 3rd, (3rd/4th), 3rd-ish(?), will we give him another 5th season stab at it? Or should the club just give a manager a 10 year stint? When does his contract run out anyway ??

Redspider

event

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6323037.stm

deal look done?

zing

Here we go ...
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNewsPopup.aspx?id=1400401&source=RNS

Press conf at 2pm

PHB

First off, I wish there was a search function, cause I'm quite sure a while ago there was a list of the transfers that went on, and it showed that in terms of net spend, Liverpool are pretty comparable to United. This could just be a incorrect memory, but I'm pretty sure of it. Arsenal definally spend less than United and Liverpool, but not as much as people think. Uniteds big purchases create an illusion of massive spending, but they don't spend anywhere near as much as people think, or as Gill would purport. United are of course able to spend more in theory, but they have severe limits put on them because they don't have a fan running the club, they have business men.

My problem with Benetiz is that no club can afford really to buy more than one star player a year. He choose the stop gap solutions to the problems, and not rising talents that might turn out to be great. He did this in some cases, say Alonso, but didn't do it in the case of Crouch/Bellamy/Pennant etc. Rafa's policy imo has ensured that Liverpool won't win the premiership for at least two more years, because he hasn't got the funds to bring in the big players he needs. Furthermore, in two years, the stop gap players he has brought in will be getting old, and mightn't be as good as they were when initially bought. The issue I think was with Rafas belief that he could win the league right away, and thought that success would come easy. However, his policy has meant that currently Liverpool just keep trying to tinker and tinker every year in the hopes of winning the premiership, but that policy just won't work.

Ok, you say that the Houllier squad wasn't up to it, but that was the squad that won the 'treble' and that won the CL (mostly). He really should have been able to get the best out of some of those players, rather than just get rid of them. But let's just say that all of those players were crap.
Rafa's policy of every year trying to find about 3-4 stop gaps which will allow them to win the league is just flawed. Beyond that, it means that until he moves away from this policy, Liverpool will be stuck in constanty limbo.
If he does move away from this policy this summer, he will go out and buy some big name striker/winger/cb, which will drasticaly improve his side, but probably not enough. He'll need at least two seasons worth of money to buy the players he needs. When he gets them, the squad which he has put together will be getting old, and some of the top class youth might have failed.
What he should have done was instead of buying stop gaps in the hopes of winning the league, he should have invested for the future with strong youth talents.
The perfect examples of this are Fergie over the last 3.5 years, and Wenger over the last 1.5 years.
Fergie invested in strong potential talents which have born fruit. Players like Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra. Initially they weren't as good, but they are paying off now. This players cost in total, 12.5 + 6 + 3 [the last two were undisclosed, but these were the reported figures] That cost in total 21.5 million. Benetiz on the other hand bought Pennant, Crouch, and Bellamy, which cost him 6.5 + 7 + 6.5. That cost in total 21 million. Yes Penant, Crouch and Bellamy were better initially than Ronaldo, Vidic, and Evra, but for the future, united's buys were a lot better. I don't have a problem with teams buying stop-gap players, Park for example has been very valuable to United, but if you are trying to build a team to win the premiership, you have to either invest in young talents or star players. Benetiz has instead invested in stop gaps players.
In the end, the difference of having either Cisse or Bellamy as your 3rd choice striker isn't that important, if it results in you not getting your first choice striker you want. It's better to have a poor 3rd choice and a great 1st choice than a decent 1st choice and an average 3rd choice.

Bit of a messy post there, but I think that Rafa's policy has ensured that Liverpool won't really be able to get the consistancy required to beat Chelsea in the long run. I think to an extent it was arrogance. He should have done what United and Arsenal have done (albeit Arsenal have done it in plans for next, or maybe even the season after). Instead he took the root of trying to grab instant success which was never really a possibility.
At the end of the season, people are going to say stuff like if Liverpool hadn't had such a poor start they might have challenged. But ultimately that wasn't the reason. The squad they have currently doesn't have the ability to match Chelsea's consistancy in terms of effective football (which is what Liverpool are going for). Rafa's policies have ensured that the only real prospects for the future are Momo and Agger (imo, Alonso is already world class) maybe Gonzalez. Contrast this with Arsenal, who have maybe 10 players who could become world class. Or United, whose youth talents are now showing their talents, and even still, have very good talents emerging still (Foster, Pique, Rossi) [I could include Bardsley, Evans, Gibson also but these aren't as convincing ]

Chardee MacDennis

From lfc.tv

First of all, why Liverpool Football Club?

George Gillett: Firstly, we're not going to sit here and pretend to be the most knowledgeable of Liverpool fans because that's clearly not true. I can say, though, that our families are big football supporters. We have been watching European football for several years and on a recent visit to this country we were advised about the possibility of meeting with the Chairman and Rick Parry.

Tom Hicks: I have been in the sports business for 12 years and with 162 baseball games and 82 hockey games a year, I was not looking for another team. George called me about a month ago and explained what he thought was the vision and the opportunity at Liverpool. I have followed the English Premier League from afar because some of my business friends are ardent fans of the game. When I looked into this over the past month I was awe-struck with the history and the true passion of the fans compared to other sports I am involved with. The Texas Rangers have been around for 36 years and the Dallas Stars have been around for 13 years, so to have a chance of getting involved with a team with more than a hundred years of history and with fervent fans is something which really excited me. After a couple of weeks I told George I was seriously ready to be his partner. We came over last week to do some due diligence and to meet David and Rick. We went to the West Ham game which was a good win and then the following night we went to see the new Arsenal stadium when they played Tottenham. We made our pitch to David and the board and, fortunately for us, they accepted it.

George Gillett: Tom and I have been involved in sports for a long time. When you sit in our little country you get an unusual perspective and probably an incorrect one, because we think our sports are pretty popular. Then you come over here and see the tribal aspects of the fans and their affection and support for the team and realise it's a game which is watched by billions. You quickly see this is the most popular sport in the world and that this is one of the most popular clubs in the world. To have the opportunity of getting involved in this is a rare privilege.

It's a well managed club but we believe we bring some experience which the management can draw on to make things even better. Tom and I are a little put off that people assume everything is about money, because we really hope we have some ideas as well as some capital.

Tom Hicks: We have both been involved in building and modifying new stadiums so we think we can bring a lot of good ideas to the work which has already been done which will be to the benefit of the fans and the club.

The reason any businessman goes into sport is because they have a passion for winning. Despite all the success I've had in life, nothing has given me more satisfaction on an emotional level than winning the Stanley Cup in 1999 and being able to get my hands on the trophy. At that moment my smile touched both ears.

It's been an uncertain time for the fans over the last few weeks, so how can you reassure them that the club they cherish so much is moving into safe hands?

Tom Hicks: I don't think David Moores would have chosen us to be the new custodians of this football club unless he was convinced we share that same sense of responsibility. We view this as a very long term process. Most people who come into sport do make mistakes but we have been in the business a long time and we know the importance of stability in terms of the team, the players and the fans. We are fortunate here that with Rick and Rafa we already have stability.

What do you hope to achieve with Liverpool Football Club?

George Gillett: We had the privilege of spending some time last night with Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher and they delivered us the message. They are all about winning and all about the passion from the fans. They asked us three specific questions:
They wanted continuity of management with David and Rick. They have enormous regard for them. They also spoke extremely warmly about Rafa and made us aware that they feel this man is truly one of the great geniuses in the recent history of the sport. They wanted to communicate to us the feeling from the dressing room was of great respect for the management team.
Secondly, they wanted to talk about players and to encourage us to support Rick and Rafa's efforts in building the team.
They were also clear with their views on the stadium. They made us aware the sound, the energy and the passion that Anfield provides needs to be incorporated into the design of the new stadium.
They were the three messages they wanted us to hear and we heard them loud and clear.

Did you understand what Jamie Carragher was saying?

George Gillett: We did! He's definitely a scouser, that's for sure. The first thing the two players did was give us their shirts with a nice message so that was a special moment for us.

You were determined to get hold of this football club, weren't you?

George Gillett: We were. I think both Tom and I have learnt that it's a great honour and a rare privilege to be considered to hold one of the greatest assets in sport in trust. To have that privilege is really special.

I don't know how to properly communicate how much care David Moores put into making this decision. He questioned us aggressively about our commitment, our passion and our willingness to help take the club forward. He wants to ensure we can re-emerge as the greatest team in the Premiership and be fully competitive in Europe. The interview process was rigorous, it was not foregone and it was not about money. It was about our passion and our understanding of the fans of this club.

David is an amazing man and this club is his life. This was the most difficult decision of his life because every single fibre in his body is in this club.

Tom Hicks: This club has been in David's family for fifty years and when we left his house it was a very poignant moment because there were tears in his eyes. He has agreed to be a Life President at the club and he will still be sitting in the directors' seats at Anfield. From the players' point of view, the best thing that can happen is that they feel nothing has changed except for a new stadium being built and more aggressive support in the transfer market.

George Gillett: The less the fans see any change the better for this club. Neither Tom or I are high-profile. We are both hugely supportive of our families and of our franchises but the less people write about us and the more they write about the fans, the challenges and the opportunities then the better for everybody.

It sounds like David has really put you through it in terms of making sure you were the right people to take over…

George Gillett: Very much so. There were two processes and ultimately he had to make two difficult decisions. The club felt they had two very well qualified potential buyers and it's no secret that one had extraordinarily deep pockets whereas ours are deep but not that deep. I think they correctly chose the other party and we were not offended by that.

On the other hand, if there's any trait that the Gillett's and the Hicks's have then it's patience and stubbornness. In hockey we have a saying that it's really tough to score if you're not in front of the net. We stayed in front of the net and we tried not to do anything which was offensive or negative. We wanted to reinforce our respect for what David and the team had built and ultimately we were given a second chance because the Hicks's joined us. There's no doubt that we increased our price because they were with us and enabled us to have the capital to be more aggressive.

There were reports you were interested in a ground share…

Tom Hicks: I can categorically say we have no interest in a ground share with any other team. We are going to build the finest team for the finest stadium in the Premier League and that is Liverpool.

George Gillett: I don't know how this story got started. It didn't get started with us. I look forward to meeting the officials from Everton some day because we are both in this wonderful city, but I have never authorised anyone to talk or act on our behalf relative to the possibility of ground sharing. I have no idea where this has come from. It was not true and we can categorically deny it.

The first time I met Rick Parry I asked him the question and that's the only time I can recall the topic coming up. He looked me in the eye and said that if I ever brought that topic up in a serious way again then I could have his resignation because he wouldn't be involved with or support that kind of discussion. That was very clear and so the subject never came up again from our side.

More recently someone close to the club said that if the topic did come up then it was the surest way possible for us to be lynched.

We want to build the greatest facility for the players and the fans and make this the best location for players to play and for fans to come.

Can we bring the title here under your ownership?

George Gillett: I really hope so. Rick has told me of a Shankly saying that 'first is first and second is nowhere' and that sounds good to us.

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

First off, I wish there was a search function

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/searchbt.php

Not as good as the old one but still decent enough.

flanzer

looks like press conference is live here

el rabitos

apparantly the club has been bought with no dept, good news there

redspider

Just listening to these guys on Sky, they have no clue about football (sacca) and Liverpool. NHL, NFL ...... good to hear they are (for now) reliant on Rick Parry.

Lets hope they are savvy at their business execution.

Hicks: "The club has been bought with no debt left in the club."

So, thats good news.

One positive fallout might be that the Liverpoll Ice Hockey Team will improve!

Lets hope there's more than that,

Redspider

RE*AC*TOR

Franchise. I hate that word.

yom 1

is it me or does Rick Parry look like he is dying for a piss

just cant stop jumpin about on his chair:p

~Rebel~

redspider wrote:

Lets hope they are savvy at their business execution.

Thats one reassuring thing. They wouldn't be where they are today without being extremely savvy in their dealings. Thats a plus as well of having 2 involved, where one might make a mistake between the 2 of them we're probably safe enough.

They seem very enthusiastic and excited about it anyway.

At least the groundshare idea is finally definately put to bed, and the fact they're bringing in their people to see how they can improve the stadium plans within the confines of the planning permissions is great.

The lack of debt is a major plus, and it certainly looks like major cash will be available for investment.

el rabitos

looks like a good deal for the club. people will complain that they called the club a "franchise" and called a goalkeeper a "goal tender", personally i dont give a crap if they call liverpool swimming pool all day long as long as they build the stadium and let parry and rafa continue as they're doing. perhaps light a fire under parrys ass in the transfer market and give him the funds to be a bit more agressive in recruiting players.

theres no dept
they're pretty much taking a back seat
they're main focus is to win
they will invest cash when needed for players
they intend to build the best stadium possible

sweet deal in my eyes

eirebhoy

What's the rush for a new stadium?

zing

~Rebel~ wrote:

They seem very enthusiastic and excited about it anyway.

At least the groundshare idea is finally definately put to bed, and the fact they're bringing in their people to see how they can improve the stadium plans within the confines of the planning permissions is great.

The lack of debt is a major plus, and it certainly looks like major cash will be available for investment.

Aye - they did seem very excited. Good to see that they seem to want to keep their involvment strictly to the board room - i.e. letting Rick & his team continue to run the business, etc.. Seemed keen to want to avoid major changes but I guess it's normal in many takeovers to try and emphasise that.

Good to hear that the purchase of the shares (& existing debt) wouldn't result in any new debt. They were vague on the stadium though and I think it's safe to assume they will finance that through debt but I'd expect that really.

Didn't like the use of the word franchise but I guess that's just the terminology that they're used to. And all that talking about their sons - who cares ?

el rabitos

eirebhoy wrote:

What's the rush for a new stadium?

losing money hand over fist to our rivals on match days

more asses in seats + those people buying food and merch = more money

zing

eirebhoy wrote:

What's the rush for a new stadium?

They loose out on a few million in grand money if work hasn't started by the end of March. They even made a comment along those lines during the press conf - that they had less that 60 days to get the shovel in the ground or something along those lines..

Stky10

No doubt there'll be loads of media reports about Hicks's dodgy dealings with George W, as detailed here

http://www.soccerblog.com/2007/02/tom_hicks_liverpools_coowner_a.htm

I'd have preferred DIC, but the takeover and redevelopment had to happen sooner or later for the good of the club, so I'm glad its over and done with. We're setting ourselves up for attacks from muppets of the likes of this though

http://www.chelsea.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=50796