Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Lex Luthor

obviously realise 2nd is out of the question and 3rd & 4th are basically the same anyway and its doubtful they will be caught so they'll go thro the motions and save themselves for CL

The Rooster

Lex Luthor wrote:

obviously realise 2nd is out of the question and 3rd & 4th are basically the same anyway and its doubtful they will be caught so they'll go thro the motions and save themselves for CL

You're just making excuses for them. I remember times during the Villa game when each of Riise, Agger and Carragher made superb tackles or blocks, really throwing themselves into it. "Going through the motions" is no excuse and will lead to certain defeat in Europe.

And I dont think they were, some just underperformed.

Gerrard was one though who was going through the motions. I thought he was a disgrace in the first half. One moment in particular summed him up, when he pretended he'd injured himself so he wouldnt have to chase back, but a few seconds later we won a free and suddenly he sprung to life rushing over to make sure him and nobody else would take it. He did put more effort in, in the second half. I'd say he got a rollicking at half-time, probably from Carragher.

Really bugs me how our manager, despite all the writing down he does during the match, still hasnt noticed that Gerrard is average at taking corners, yet is one of the best headers of the ball at the club, not to mention a great man to be on the end of any knock down. Pure idiocy to let him take most of Liverpool's corners.

el rabitos

some comfort to be taken in the fact that psv were beaten 5 - 1 at home by ajax

Sunn

Our form this season has been woeful I think. Considering last year we had such a great defensive record our problem was are attacking play and this year it seems to be the same problem again. As much as i like sissoko its completely unacceptable for a professional footballer to lack the ability to pass the ball to another team mate less than 5 yards away. I know hes only 22 but surely passing the ball is one of the first things that is learned.

Gerrard and alonso's (alonso in particular) has been terrible..and it makes me worried that he keeps getting linked with barca.

Our whole midfield completely breaks down at times when attacking and why it isnt been sorted is beyond me.

I'm hoping that for the start of next season we can actually mount a serious challenge and not start our season in the middle of october.

DaBreno

The Rooster wrote:

Really bugs me how our manager, despite all the writing down he does during the match, still hasnt noticed that Gerrard is average at taking corners, yet is one of the best headers of the ball at the club, not to mention a great man to be on the end of any knock down. Pure idiocy to let him take most of Liverpool's corners.

Glad to see Im no the only one who thinks this. He takes terrible corners, Terrible. How can management not see this? He rarely sends in a good ball. Im long past getting excited when Liverpool win a corner because we almost never offer a threat from this particualr set-peice. How often do we score from Corners compared to say, Blackburn? It should be Alonso and Finnan or Pennant allocated to this.

redspider

Lex Luthor wrote:

obviously realise 2nd is out of the question and 3rd & 4th are basically the same anyway and its doubtful they will be caught so they'll go thro the motions and save themselves for CL

I agree with you Lex. It was just one of those days that didnt matter that much. Liverpool still play with this 'cavalier' attitude on too many occaaions for my liking, not all the players it has to be said, but its one reason why for me they are not title contenders and wont be until they get a killer instinct for every game.

I agree about the corner-taking. Gerrard should be in the box for headers or knock-downs. Use a smaller players for corners. Liverpool used to use Fowler as well. Doesnt make sense.

By the way, here is the ladder and its why I dont blame players for not being overly bothered:

75	Man Utd
74	
73	
72	
71	
70	
69	Chelsea
68	
67	
66	
65	
64	
63	
62	
61	
60	
59	
58	
57	
56	
55	Arsenal
54	Liverpool
53	
52	
51	
50	
49	
48	
47	Bolton
46	Everton
45	Tottenham

As for the CL run, its very early days. PSV uncharacterisically got hammered in the league v Ajaz. That is a good result for Liverpool as it means that the gap at the top has narrowed futher in the Dutch league and it means that PSV cant rest on their laurels. Here is their league in ladder format:

67	PSV
66	
65	
64	
63	
62	Ajax
61	
60	AZ
59	
58	FC Twente
57	
56	
55	
54	
53	
52	
51	
50	
49	Feyenoord

Btw, Liverpool are now 21 pts behind Man Utd. Wasnt such a gap a 'crisis' a few seasons ago?
No major step change then thus far, it would seem.

Redspider

Waster

Lovely goal from Adam Hamill.
http://media.putfile.com/celts-v-dunfermline-
Hear good things about him during his loan spell. Might be good to see him get a chance in the first team squad for next season.

astrofool

redspider wrote:

Btw, Liverpool are now 21 pts behind Man Utd. Wasnt such a gap a 'crisis' a few seasons ago?
No major step change then thus far, it would seem.

Redspider

It also begs the question what exactly liverpool can do to turn 7 losses into 7 wins to be level pegging for next season.

missingtime

DaBreno wrote:

Glad to see Im no the only one who thinks this. He takes terrible corners, Terrible. How can management not see this? He rarely sends in a good ball. Im long past getting excited when Liverpool win a corner because we almost never offer a threat from this particualr set-peice. How often do we score from Corners compared to say, Blackburn? It should be Alonso and Finnan or Pennant allocated to this.

Remember the Man United game when liverpool had something like 12 corners.
Van De Sar wasn't even worried.

mike65

Noone goes Ooooooooooh/Yeeeeeeeeeeh! when Liverpool wins a corner these days. Finnan/Aurelio/Agger should take them.

Mike.

Vokes

I seem to remember Garcia taking pretty good corners in the CL last season, shame he's been injured.

Guy:Incognito

We should sign Henry for corner taking.

Dont be at yourself

Rafa again linked with Real - supposedly he's been made their number one target, and they're willing to offer him more control than any other coach. Alves also linked to Real.

Gillet and Hicks better get out their cheque book

Daemonic

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Rafa again linked with Real - supposedly he's been made their number one target, and they're willing to offer him more control than any other coach. Alves also linked to Real.

Gillet and Hicks better get out their cheque book

Considering the interference all recent managers at Real have had to contend with thats hardly going to seal the deal.

~Rebel~

He's exactly the type of coach you'd think the Real fans would hate, defensively minded, building from the back, not a lot of exciting play..

Daemonic

I don't think the managers coaching style matters much to the Real board, Capello is a defensive coach. Real seem to have a Galactico approach to coaches as well as players. Sign a huge name and hope they can perform a miracle.

~Rebel~

thats what i dont understand though. Capello is a similer styled coach to Benitez and is ridiculously proven. The fans are unhappy with the lack of attacking free flowing football, so looks like capello might get the chop. So why replace him with more of the same? maybe its as simple as you say and they're not even thinking about the style of management and just gunning for a big name. I dont know if i could see Rafa being given a few seasons to build from the back, like he has with pool though, without the fans being unhappy.

would have thought rijkaard or wenger would have been more the style the real fans want.

mickith

i dont really like the way rafa doesnt answer the question when asked about if madrid comes knockin and you have all the power of he-man, would you say yes?
i no the way he deals with the medai and the way he answers some questions but surely he could say see ya later, im hear for a few more years yet.
im sure im worrying about nothing but after the last performance could ya blame him if he was thinkin about it
we have got to pick it up this weekend against the gooners. i think we will and think we should win it with a few goals from bellers or kuyt. maybe even robbie to come on to get his usual one against them

gary the great

Its a bit weird to think who would replace Rafa if he did go?

Rafa is world class, theres nobody else in the manager world class Lge that would come to liverpool.

But i suppose Wenger came from Japan!

event

at the end of the day, he is spanish

and when the biggest spanish club, if not the biggest club in europe, come knocking, you dont always turn them down. They might not ever come back in for you

i reckon he will consider it at least

Daemonic

Hopefully the new owners have assured Rafa that enough money will be made available for him to be excited about what he can achieve at Liverpool, otherwise the lure of Real may be too much despite all the problems that appear to go with the job.

mike65

The Real link was made last year (before Capello arrived ). he signed a one year extension anyway. I would'nt worry.

If he goes I want Hiddink to arrive.

Mike.

Stky10

Is it only me that sees no point in sending players out on loan to league one and two, when ManU/Arsenal/Chelsea send youth players out to the championship?. What are they going to learn there other than the physical aspect?. The sooner we get a foreign feeder club we can send them to the better.

http://www.lfconline.com/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=330542

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=456035&CPID=12&clid=888&lid=2&title=Coleman+keen+to+build+on+Reds+link

Oh and new jerseys (supposedly)

http://eplleague.blogspot.com/2007/03/liverpools-new-20072008-away-shirts.html

mike65

Voronin scored again in the BundasLeague - lucky deflection (well it might have gone in anyway).

Mike.

GBX

I dont rate him, but Geremi is being linked with Liverpool for the summer. Wouldnt be first on my list ..
http://www.fansfc.com/liverpoolfootballclub/news.asp?newsid=164713

Guy:Incognito

Stky10 wrote:

Oh and new jerseys (supposedly)

http://eplleague.blogspot.com/2007/03/liverpools-new-20072008-away-shirts.html

They're quite clearly training tops or somesuch.

zing

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N155362070322-1054.htm

Hopefully that'll be the end of the Rafa to Madrid speculation.

Lex Luthor

Stekelly wrote:

They're quite clearly training tops or somesuch.

more like fakes

mike65

Crouch back in training and should be ready for Arsenal game.

Mike.

~Rebel~

good good, wouldnt mind him coming straight into the team with bellers. we need something to kickstart the goalscoring. no goals in about 290 minutes of football now! maybe use Kuyt as a more direct impact sub then, like his first few games for us.

p.s snazzy new look you got there Mike

mike65

And it cost me a €13 three month subscription!

I see Crouch/Berbatov swap ( plus cash I presume) has been shot down by Jol. Understandable really.

MIke.

Dont be at yourself

Klose still delaying on signing on for Bremen, apparently...

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote:

I see Crouch/Berbatov swap ( plus cash I presume) has been shot down by Jol. Understandable really.

MIke.

bugger, had all my fingers and toes crossed for that one. Klose could be very interesting too though.

el rabitos

sure dont worry about it, berbatov would only become inflicted with the liverpool disease of becoming suddenly crap in front of goal upon arrival at the club. then leave and rediscover his golden touch, its how we roll at liverpool.

The Rooster

gary the great wrote:

Its a bit weird to think who would replace Rafa if he did go?

Rafa is world class, theres nobody else in the manager world class Lge that would come to liverpool.

But i suppose Wenger came from Japan!

If he went this summer, the obvious candidate would be Jose.

Benitez is a good manager but it wouldnt bother me too much if Benitez went. The longer he's at the club the more Houllier-like he becomes. Not losing is more important than winning. And having that attitude works reasonably well in Europe, but it nearly always backfires in the Premiership.

el rabitos

The Rooster wrote:

If he went this summer, the obvious candidate would be Jose.

Benitez is a good manager but it wouldnt bother me too much if Benitez went. The longer he's at the club the more Houllier-like he becomes. Not losing is more important than winning. And having that attitude works reasonably well in Europe, but it nearly always backfires in the Premiership.

in what way do you consider benitez' reign so far similar to that of houllier's?

jesus_thats_gre

Doing **** all in the PL and being successul in domestic and european cup competitions?

el rabitos

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Doing **** all in the PL and being successul in domestic and european cup competitions?

liverpool did alot of **** all under souness and evans

houllier improved the club and progressed to a point and then ran out of ideas. but during the time the team was progressing, people werent complaining with the trophys being won. there was also progress in the league up until a point. the complaints started when it all went stale. he didnt have any ideas left and didnt seem to know how to fix the mistakes that the team were making.

on the other hand, benitez doesnt seem like he's running out of idea's at all, things still seem fresh with him in charge( to me anyway), he seems to have a good ability to spot the majority of his mistakes and rectify them. there has been some dissapointing results this season, but i still feel the league will arrive in the next 2 years. benitez' test is going to come over the next 2 seasons, he should have a reasonable amount of money to spend and he'll be given time, and personally i think he's the man to win number 19, much sooner than later.

PHB

The obvious comparision between Houllier and Benitez is that they both started very very well, with some great initial success, but both seem to not be able to progress to the next level, although Benitez can't be written off yet.

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

The obvious comparision between Houllier and Benitez is that they both started very very well, with some great initial success, but both seem to not be able to progress to the next level, although Benitez can't be written off yet.

there is no comparison, is every future liverpool manager or any manager for the matter that wins a couple of trophys before winning the premiership comparable to gerard houllier?

PHB

Assuming Rafa has shown signs that he is going to win the premiership, which he hasn't yet. That said, I think he will prove to be a much greater success than Houllier.

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

Assuming Rafa has shown signs that he is going to win the premiership, which he hasn't yet. That said, I think he will prove to be a much greater success than Houllier.

i consider liverpools unbeaten runs during last season and this season and their impressive clean sheet records as good building blocks for a potential run at the title. i'd consider those "signs" that liverpool could win the premiership

jesus_thats_gre

Don't disagree to be honest el rabitos but there alot of of likenesses in both their records. GH's tenure as manager peaked at the end of the 3rd or 4th season with the treble and 2nd place in the league. Benitez has not been there that long yet and have yet.

PHB

i consider liverpools unbeaten runs during last season and this season and their impressive clean sheet records as good building blocks for a potential run at the title. i'd consider those "signs" that liverpool could win the premiership

I wouldn't to be honest, why I think Liverpool have a chance is because Benitez is brilliant and finally has replaced enough of his squad to start bringing in star players who can begin to win the premiership, but I don't think Liverpool have done anything yet to suggest they can, it's just based on Benitez's record.

But in terms of record, Benitez and Houllier has many similarities.

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

I wouldn't to be honest, why I think Liverpool have a chance is because Benitez is brilliant and finally has replaced enough of his squad to start bringing in star players who can begin to win the premiership, but I don't think Liverpool have done anything yet to suggest they can, it's just based on Benitez's record.

whats brilliant about replacing players? it was a natural thing to do that. knowing when certain players arent working and having the courage to dispose of them is on of his better traits though, going back to his ability to learn from his mistakes.

you dont see having the best clean sheets record in the premiership as a good building block towards winning the thing?

PHB wrote:

But in terms of record, Benitez and Houllier has many similarities.

such as? winning the fa cup?

Stky10

Linked with Bale, Ben Haim, Granero, and possibly Kewell leaving

http://liverpoolfc.co.za/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1126051643/m/7811033153

http://www.thesoccerblog.org/premiership/liverpool-to-bid-for-bolton-defender/

http://www.thesoccerblog.org/la-liga/liverpool-join-fulham-in-chase-to-sign-madrid-star/

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=33516

PHB

whats brilliant about replacing players? it was a natural thing to do that. knowing when certain players arent working and having the courage to dispose of them is on of his better traits though, going back to his ability to learn from his mistakes.

I outlined this earlier in this thread, but basically, instead of trying to work with the squad he had, Benitez just simply replaced everyone, and made an entirely new squad. This meant that for a couple of years at least, Liverpool never had a chance of challenging. I think a better manager would have worked with what was there and improved on it, rather than have only, what 3 starters still starting?
Finnan-Carragher-Gerrard?

you dont see having the best clean sheets record in the premiership as a good building block towards winning the thing?

No, I think it is a good building block towards drawing the thing, but not winning it.

Liverpool don't score enough goals, and that's not just to do with the attackers, its to do with the team balance. Currently the wingers often don't get forward as much because they are defending (like Duff used to do for Chelsea)
Also the midfielders don't commit forward as much as say United, Arsenal, or even Chelsea.
This is part of the reason why Liverpool don't score, (that
and the Liverpool striker disease)

In short, it's easier to have clean sheets in a team that is defensive. When Liverpool become more attacking, as they have to if they want to win, their balance will be difference, and their defensive record has not yet been tested out there. I still think they are missing another top quality CB to replace Hyypia.
Also you aren't top, Chelsea are, and you are in joint second with United.

such as? winning the fa cup?

Incredible initial success (UEFA + FA + League vs. CL) with little to show for it afterwards, basically a regression from the first season.

redspider

The Houllier v Benitez argument - I dont know the answer. I hope that Benitez turns out better than Houllier in the long run. So far, he seems to be heading that way but the jury is sill out. Although if this is a trophy-less season its not many kudo's for Rafa.

PHB wrote:

I think a better manager would have worked with what was there and improved on it, rather than have only, what 3 starters still starting?
Finnan-Carragher-Gerrard?

Liverpool don't score enough goals, and that's not just to do with the attackers ...
In short, it's easier to have clean sheets in a team that is defensive.

And he tried to replace Finnan!

However, I dont blame a new manager for bringing in a new set of players. That is what we should expect from them and that's what a change of manager is all about. New styles, new formations, new players, etc. It takes time, but for Rafa this is now his team. From here on in, it's his results. This year, no trophies, so not a good start.

But speaking of using players that he inherited, who was it that played in the CL campaign and final? It was Houlliers players. Dudek, Smicer, Traore, Hyppia, Baros (who ironically is still with Houllier!), etc ..... although Alonso and Garcia certainly helped. So a mixture, and perhaps some tactical nous, and in the final, brilliant man-management.

I agree with the defensive and attacking balance point. A team plays with 10 outfield players but they have two modes, and two formations at anyone time, attack and defense. Benitez's buys have concentrated quite a lot on defense it has to be said, and not all with success either. He also likes the physical. Some of his buys have been filler material rather than first team players which is what we need. Maybe with the new owners this will give him the resources to invest in more accomplished players and more prized starlets, time will tell.

Redspider

The Rooster

el rabitos wrote:

in what way do you consider benitez' reign so far similar to that of houllier's?

As I said, not losing more important than winning.

Drawing with a shíte said like Aston Villa, then with 15-20 minutes to go he takes off a striker and brings on a midfielder.

Thats just one example, but is typical of what the Benitez mind-set is - very similar to Houllier.

Ferguson would never do that.

IrishMike

The Rooster wrote:

As I said, not losing more important than winning.

Drawing with a shíte said like Aston Villa, then with 15-20 minutes to go he takes off a striker and brings on a midfielder.

Thats just one example, but is typical of what the Benitez mind-set is - very similar to Houllier.

Ferguson would never do that.

this is the same ferguson whos number #1 sub is john o shea?