Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

astrofool

Ah yes, bringing John O'Shea on never works does it

If Utd are not winning, Ferguson will always bring on more attack minded players, this has meant that sometimes it does not work and you end up conceding a few, but better to try than not eh?

Cyrus

yeah sure ferguson is great :rolleyes:

forgetting of course that he was for all intents and purposes a domestic manager who would have known the league (scottish league much stronger when he managed up there) and it took him 7 frickin years to win anything.

benitez wins the cl and the fa cup in 2 years he's ready for the scrap heap.

PHB

However, I dont blame a new manager for bringing in a new set of players. That is what we should expect from them and that's what a change of manager is all about. New styles, new formations, new players, etc. It takes time, but for Rafa this is now his team. From here on in, it's his results. This year, no trophies, so not a good start.

I agree, which is why I think we can expect a better performance from Liverpool in the future with the signings he should make this summer, but I still think Liverpool are maybe 6 players away from a league winning squad, so because of this, it'lll be another season or two before they challenge. This is my problem with how Rafa went about rebuilding, rather than attempting to use what he had, he simply replaced what he had, which meant that for at least 4-5 years Liverpool were not going to challenge.

But speaking of using players that he inherited, who was it that played in the CL campaign and final? It was Houlliers players. Dudek, Smicer, Traore, Hyppia, Baros (who ironically is still with Houllier!), etc ..... although Alonso and Garcia certainly helped. So a mixture, and perhaps some tactical nous, and in the final, brilliant man-management.

Indeed, but if he could win the CL with those players, surely they could have been some use in the premiership. Dudek is the prime example. Reina was brought in when he wasn't necessarily needed, in comparision to say a top striker.

----

Ferguson would never do that.

He does do that, but the point you are making still stands.
He doesn't see putting O'Shea on as a defensive move, he sees it as an attacking move. O'Shea on allows every other midfielder to push forward. This to Fergie is an attacking substitution.
Benitez makes defensive substitutions on purpose, Fergie does it, imo, by accident

Cyrus

PHB wrote:

Indeed, but if he could win the CL with those players, surely they could have been some use in the premiership. Dudek is the prime example. Reina was brought in when he wasn't necessarily needed, in comparision to say a top striker.

Reina wasnt needed, you must be joking, dudek is awful. Rafa bought the players that were needed, its just the midfielders and defenders ala reina, agger, alonso and sissoko have worked out well and the wingers, gonzalez, pennant and strikers havent worked out to the same extent

PHB

Dudek had his blunders, but so does Reina.
I don't think Reina is a massive improvement on Dudek, and in terms of areas that needed strengthening, goalkeeper was pretty far down the list.
Imagine instead of spending the money on Reina that you spent the combined total from say Crouch and Reina, I'd say Liverpool would be in a lot better a position.

Guy:Incognito

Cyrus wrote:

Reina wasnt needed, you must be joking, dudek is awful. Rafa bought the players that were needed, its just the midfielders and defenders ala reina, agger, alonso and sissoko have worked out well and the wingers, gonzalez, pennant and strikers havent worked out to the same extent

Dudek has had his blunders mostly since he was left out for 6 months and got a cup game, it's next to impossible to perform like that. The only time i remember , im sure there a few examples, of a player being in and out of a team and still performing was Fowler in his last season with Liverpool in 2000/01. He would play a game , score and be dropped. Then given a game in 2 ore 3 games time and score again, only to be dropped again. This went on all season yet Im nearly sure he managed over 20 goals that season (all comps). That is an exception though. Look at Owen. Everytime he got injured he took a couple of weeks to get back scoring. Dudek was no better or worse that Reina. It was money spent ot move sideways. Only advantage was that Reina was younger.

mike65

Ferguson would never do that.

True he would'nt, but while I was annoyed with Rafas mentality against Villa I could see his logic, 3/4th is same difference apart from some money and 5th place is too far back to be of much concern. The only thing that matters now is the CL (sadly) so he's saving his troops. The Arsenal game will be interesting, before PSG but in front of the new owners and a chance to consolidate 3/4th.

I see Kewell should be back in two weeks, he better play out of his skin!

Mike.

PiE

Ehh... might be looking back a bit too kindly on Dudek. He had a lot of blunders when he was #1 keeper. When Dudek played, I cringed every time a ball was floated into the box. Reina inspires much more confidence in the defence.

And PHB, please stop exaggerating. Six players? It's a miracle Utd are gonna win the title with the squad they have, certainly not 6 players better than Liverpool. One player having the season of his life is the difference between the two teams.

Guy:Incognito

PiE wrote:

Ehh... might be looking back a bit too kindly on Dudek. He had a lot of blunders when he was #1 keeper. When Dudek played, I cringed every time a ball was floated into the box. Reina inspires much more confidence in the defence..

If some are looking back too kindly, your present viewign isnt the best.


As i said, Dudek is no better or worse. Reina is prone to his fair share of flapping and errors, roughly the same as dudek tbh. I cant say I'm anymore at ease with the goalkeeping situation than when Dudek was in goal.

I'd happily see Carson come through as the no1 next season or at least star getting games with a view to being no 1. I hope it happens.

event

PiE wrote:

Ehh... might be looking back a bit too kindly on Dudek. He had a lot of blunders when he was #1 keeper. When Dudek played, I cringed every time a ball was floated into the box. Reina inspires much more confidence in the defence.

if anything, reina is dodgy at high balls into the box. i never look confident seeing him some for it. very good shot stopper and that, but crosses he is a bit suspect IMO

PHB

And PHB, please stop exaggerating. Six players? It's a miracle Utd are gonna win the title with the squad they have, certainly not 6 players better than Liverpool. One player having the season of his life is the difference between the two teams.

Ronaldo is an amazing player no doubt, but in terms of Liverpool, I think to really challenge they need another

Center Back
A good defender that can cover the back 4
Right Winger
Left Winger
Striker
Striker

I don't most the wingers/strikers Liverpool have are good enough (unless Gerrard is the right winger, in which case, you need another CM)
Kuyt is a good player, and would be an excellent player to have in the squad.
Crouch/Bellamy can't seem to hack it at the upper levels.
Fowler is just getting too old.

Gonzalez looked like a quality player in La Liga, but he just hasn't done it in the premiership. That said, I think he could still be adjusting, so he'd make a good addition to the squad.
Kewell isn't good enough, he just can't recapture his previous form, Pennant is not up to top 4 standard.

I think it will take a lot of money to bring in 2 wingers and 2 strikers. 6 players might not be needed. In 2 years, Agger could be world class, so perhaps only 5.
And you can have weak points in the squad and win the premiership (just look at United this year in midfield, if Scholes is out) but only if your first 11 are good enough, and you get don't get injuries. Liverpools first 11 is not good enough currently, CB, RW, LW, and one Striker need to be brought in to make a top class 11 even.

Reina is better, no dout, but is he that much better? Like if I gave you the choice of:

Dudek + Alves
Reina + Pennant

Which would you pick? I know I'd pick Dudek + Alves

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

Ronaldo is an amazing player no doubt, but in terms of Liverpool, I think to really challenge they need another

Center Back
A good defender that can cover the back 4
Right Winger
Left Winger
Striker
Striker

seems like your just pulling positions out of your ass. liverpool need 1 striker at best. new wingers would be a luxury, as would another defender. its just as easy to pick apart man utd or arsenals short comings as a squad, but working with what you have doesnt seem to be thrown about as much of an option. liverpool need stability, not another handfull of players moving about.

PHB wrote:

I don't most the wingers/strikers Liverpool have are good enough (unless Gerrard is the right winger, in which case, you need another CM)
Kuyt is a good player, and would be an excellent player to have in the squad.
Crouch/Bellamy can't seem to hack it at the upper levels.
Fowler is just getting too old.

why would liverpool need another midfielder, we have alonso and sissoko and zenden and macherano (a player you and the rest of the man u clan seemed eager to have during the summer), liverpool have one of the finest midfields around. pennant hasnt shown his best form consistantly, that doesnt mean liverpool *need* a new right winger. same for gonzalez, kewell is a different matter. if liverpool or any club *needed* a new winger everytime the current crop have a bad season, the club would run out of transfer funds completely....oh wait...

PHB wrote:

Gonzalez looked like a quality player in La Liga, but he just hasn't done it in the premiership. That said, I think he could still be adjusting, so he'd make a good addition to the squad.
Kewell isn't good enough, he just can't recapture his previous form, Pennant is not up to top 4 standard.

kewell isnt good enough? nobody has seen anything of him this season to know what he is.

PHB wrote:

I think it will take a lot of money to bring in 2 wingers and 2 strikers. 6 players might not be needed. In 2 years, Agger could be world class, so perhaps only 5.
And you can have weak points in the squad and win the premiership (just look at United this year in midfield, if Scholes is out) but only if your first 11 are good enough, and you get don't get injuries. Liverpools first 11 is not good enough currently, CB, RW, LW, and one Striker need to be brought in to make a top class 11 even.

so liverpool need 6 players, then 5 and now 4? you should have made that post a bit longer, eventually we might have had a world class team.

PHB wrote:

Reina is better, no dout, but is he that much better? Like if I gave you the choice of:

Dudek + Alves
Reina + Pennant

Which would you pick? I know I'd pick Dudek + Alves

well if you pick that combo, i'd have to pick the opposite because i think you talk rubbish.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote:

Center Back
A good defender that can cover the back 4
Right Winger
Left Winger
Striker
Striker

Center back; With this being the first year of a new partnership, the fact defensive record has been so good i think shows that we're nicely sorted in this area for the forseeable future, given that the partnership will most likely improve even more. Agger is more then good enough to partner Carra.

All round defender; Thats what Arbeloa was just bought for. So in defence outside of the main 4 of Riise, Agger, Carra, Finnan, we have Arbeloa, Hypia, Aurelio, Paletta,together with quality youth in Roque, Huth, Insua, Hobbs and Antwi.

Wingers; Id to see one top top quality winger brought in.

Strikers; Id like to see one top quality winger brought in. Im delighted to see Craig Linfield has been keeping up his scoring with the reserves. After scoring 2 in the youth cup last week against newcastle, he got another one tonight in a 3 - 0 win over newcastle reserves. We may finally have another decent striker coming through the ranks!

So id be inclined to say we're 2 players away from a very talented well rounded squad.

Reina is better, no dout, but is he that much better? Like if I gave you the choice of:

Dudek + Alves
Reina + Pennant

Which would you pick? I know I'd pick Dudek + Alves

Its an odd one to answer, as both wouldn't have happened simultanously anyway. When Rafa did try the same year Reina came in there was just a staunch no. This year when he tried again, i doubt the combined total of Reina and Pennant (about 12mill sterling) would have been enough to lure him over.

Im an awful lot more confident with Reina in the team anyway, its clear to see the players are too. He does fluff the odd cross with an attempted punch, but you can see he's always very vocal with the back 4 and they're comfortable with his calls, which wasnt the case with Dudek. His distribution is absolutely fantastic too. Would hope to see Carson giving him a run for his money soon though.

Dont be at yourself

With Dudek, the defence would sit far too deep and we seemed to endlessly boot the ball up the pitch when playing from the back. Reina has much more control of the area, and allows the defence to sit further up.

PHB, as ever, is a blinkered idiot. We need a top class creative midfield player, and we possibly need a top class striker. Kuyt & Bellamy have done very well for their first season, and are only going to be better as they settle in. We need continuity more than we need new players - as our habitual poor starts to the season demonstrate.

event

~Rebel~ wrote:

Strikers; Id like to see one top quality winger brought in. Im delighted to see Craig Linfield has been keeping up his scoring with the reserves. After scoring 2 in the youth cup last week against newcastle, he got another one tonight in a 3 - 0 win over newcastle reserves. We may finally have another decent striker coming through the ranks!

heard that before with neil mellor

~Rebel~

event wrote:

heard that before with neil mellor

Thats true, but we also heard it before with Fowler and Owen, so fingers crossed he'll be more like them.

A lot of Mellors goals were down to his big strong bustling nature, so he was caught a bit against better opposition, at least Linfield is more on a par with fowler in owen in terms of size/build/style. Nippy guy who gets all sorts of goals. Lets hope he can keep it up for the next few years and build on what he's done!

I have to say im optimistic about the currect crop of youths, on target for 2 FA youth cup's in a row. Jay Spearing seems a quality player too.

PHB

seems like your just pulling positions out of your ass. liverpool need 1 striker at best. new wingers would be a luxury, as would another defender. its just as easy to pick apart man utd or arsenals short comings as a squad, but working with what you have doesnt seem to be thrown about as much of an option. liverpool need stability, not another handfull of players moving about.

why would liverpool need another midfielder, we have alonso and sissoko and zenden and macherano (a player you and the rest of the man u clan seemed eager to have during the summer),

If Gerrard was to be classed as a right winger, a midfield of Alonso and Momo/Mascherano isn't exactly the most creative midfield around.

liverpool have one of the finest midfields around. pennant hasnt shown his best form consistantly, that doesnt mean liverpool *need* a new right winger. same for gonzalez, kewell is a different matter. if liverpool or any club *needed* a new winger everytime the current crop have a bad season, the club would run out of transfer funds completely....oh wait...

Liverpool have shown themselves to have one of the finest central midfields around, not overall midfields.

The reason Pennant need to be replaced is not beacuse they haven't shown their best form, it's because they aren't good enough. Do you honestly think he will ever reach the heights of Robben or Ronaldo?

kewell isnt good enough? nobody has seen anything of him this season to know what he is.

No, but we've seen him for the last couple of years at Liverpool, and you can make a pretty good judgement of him on that.

so liverpool need 6 players, then 5 and now 4? you should have made that post a bit longer, eventually we might have had a world class team.

Well its very simple really,
If next year you want a world class squad, you would need 6 new players.
If you wait 2 years, Agger might be world class (indeed he is looking like he could be), then you'd only need 5.
If you want to take a risk, and hope you don't get any injuries in weak positions (like United havn't in midfield this year), then you could get away with 4. You are unlikely to get away with two positions being weak though, as injuries will inevitably catch up with you.

well if you pick that combo, i'd have to pick the opposite because i think you talk rubbish.

You honaslty think that Dudek and Alves wouldn't be better for Liverpool than Reina and Pennant?

---

Center back; With this being the first year of a new partnership, the fact defensive record has been so good i think shows that we're nicely sorted in this area for the forseeable future, given that the partnership will most likely improve even more. Agger is more then good enough to partner Carra.

Agger is a talent no doubt. But the team have given them a lot of protection. In the tight tight games, Agger just doesn't compliment Carragher well enough. I think Liverpool other back 4 are top class players, Finnan Riise (who is getting even better this year defensively) and Carragher, who is rock solid. However, he is a very specific type of defender, like Terry in the old Bruce mould. But to partner a player like that, you need one who can read the game really well and has some pace. Look at Chelsea or United's defense, Carvalho and Ferdinand perform this role. In an attackingly orientated team, you need a player like that who can do it. Liverpool don't have that, and I think they need another CB to really challenge next year. Agger might be a good enough reader of the game in the coming years, but he isn't yet.

All round defender; Thats what Arbeloa was just bought for. So in defence outside of the main 4 of Riise, Agger, Carra, Finnan, we have Arbeloa, Hypia, Aurelio, Paletta,together with quality youth in Roque, Huth, Insua, Hobbs and Antwi.

Well I know nothing about Liverpool's youth system, so I can't comment on it, but in relation to the backup there.
Hyypia - while ex-world class, he is just too old now. I doubt he'll be at liverpool for another season
Aurelio and Palletta havn't really shown they are of the quality required yet.

Arbeloa - has yet to prove anything, bar the defensive ****ups against Barca. He can cover across the back four yes, but how well is the question? He might suprise me and perform the Gallas role that he performed for Chelsea, but I doubt it.
Neil would have been the perfect signing, and he might still be brought in after West ham get relegated.

Wingers; Id to see one top top quality winger brought in.

I can see an argument for only one being brought in, if you put your faith in Gonzalez, which is fair enough.
Kewell hasn't done anything to suggest he can get the form he had at Leeds.
Pennant is not good enough, and won't ever be good enough for a top 4 club. Since he has joined Liverpool all he has offered is a person who can play in that position.
Zenden seems to have imploded since he joined Liverpool. He has been unlucky with injuries, but he really hasn't produced the form he used to have.
Garcia is really a hot and cold player. Can produce moments of magic but is in large parts very frustrating, much more so in the premiership. Great squad player though

A wing combination of

New winger - Gonzalez - Garcia - Zenden would be pretty of championship quality [in a 4-4-2 system] but if Gonzalez can't get back what he showed in La Liga, another would need to be brought in.

Strikers; Id like to see one top quality winger brought in. Im delighted to see Craig Linfield has been keeping up his scoring with the reserves. After scoring 2 in the youth cup last week against newcastle, he got another one tonight in a 3 - 0 win over newcastle reserves. We may finally have another decent striker coming through the ranks!

I assume you mean striker.
If Linfield is a talent, for the next year at least, he will only ever be the fourth striker at the club.

Crouch and Bellamy just aren't good enough. If you made a compilation this year of their misses, it would run for an hour. They miss chance after chance after chance. I think Benitez put it best when he said you want a striker with the movement of Bellamy, the workrate of Kuyt, and the finishing of Fowler. Chelsea have that player in Drogba. Arsenal have that player in Henry. United have that player in Rooney. Where do Liverpool have that player?

A top class striker is needed, and imo, a second one is needed to.
I think Crouch is terrible, not because he himself is a bad player, he's good, but because he makes the team become a long ball team. That said, he provides an option in the squad.
I think Bellamy just isn't up to it. Good player, and a good buy for what he cost, but will never reach the quality of the Owens and Fowlers of this world.

New Striker - New Striker - Kuyt - Crouch/Bellamy

is what is required to win.

So id be inclined to say we're 2 players away from a very talented well rounded squad.

I'd stick at 6, 4 if you can wait two seasons and let Gonzalez and Agger reach their potential. The problem is not that these players aren't good enough for Liverpool, players like Kuyt Garcia are damm good players, and great for a squad, it's that they aren't good enough to be first choice players.

Bellamy/Crouch are at the same level, they are both good squad players, but only one of them is really useful, as having a good squad is irrelevent, the important thing is that you have a great first 11 and good squad cover. Bellamy and Crouch would provide great cover, but they aren't at that quality.

Its an odd one to answer, as both wouldn't have happened simultanously anyway. When Rafa did try the same year Reina came in there was just a staunch no. This year when he tried again, i doubt the combined total of Reina and Pennant (about 12mill sterling) would have been enough to lure him over.

Yeh I know it's never a direct issue like that, but let's take say Bellamy.
This summer you bought Bellamy for 6.7 million and Pennant for 6.5 million.
That's 13.2 million.
afaik, Alves's asking price was 14 million.

If you had the choice between

Cisse + Alves
Bellamy + Pennant

which would you pick?
I know I'd pick the former. Obviously Bellamy is much better than Cisse in the premiership, but Alves is a ****load better than Pennant.
This has been Rafa's problem, he keeps buying good squad players, but hasn't brought in any real real talent, except in Alonso and Momo.
This policy has meant that Liverpool still need to buy these top top talents, and why Liverpool are still far away from the top 2. Yes these players could win any of the cups, in terms of winning a league, you need class throughout the squad.

The Rooster

Stekelly wrote:

Dudek has had his blunders mostly since he was left out for 6 months and got a cup game, it's next to impossible to perform like that. .

Dudek was making blunders long before he was dropped.

The mistake against Leverkusen in the CL the year we won it was typical of the man. And every time I watch the re-run of Istanbul (which is a lot ) the performance of dudek is more cringworthy. For a man to make as many mistakes as he did in one match to end up the hero was absolutely extraordinary.

Fair play to Benitez for having to bottle to drop him straight away despite this.

Chardee MacDennis

Just because PHB is all high and mighty at the moment with united winning the league. but look at the united squad. if scholes, ronaldo and giggs hadn’t found amazing form this year or had picked up a serious injury, they would be no where near winning.

rooney has been rubbish this season and is not as good as Henry or Drogba or ever will be imho and crouch, bellamy and Kuyt are all better than saha and OGS at this point in his career.

i mean look at united’s best XI v liverpool's (in my opinion)

VDS - Reina: VDS more solid and experienced but Reina for the 2nd season has mosyt clean sheets
Finnan - Neville: both as good as each other, finnan better going forward then defending and probably the opposite for Neville
Agger - Vidic: both doing very well his season, Agger still young and has shown inexperience at times, vidic has done brilliantly.
Carragher - Ferdinand: I really don’t know how anyone can rate Rio, he is like the Lampard of defenders, OVERRATED. I would have carra any day both in LFC and England
Riise – Evra: Both good attacking defenders but Riise pips this one imo.
Pennant - Ronaldo: Pennant isn’t as bad as people make out and still has a chance to make it as a big player but Ronaldo has been faultless this season and is one of the best, if not the best, in the world at the moment.
Alonso – Carrick: Once again Carrick is another over rated English player, who people say crap like “you don’t know he is there when he is doing his job”, etc. WASTE OF MONEY and hasn’t lived up to his price or expectations. Alonso is the better but he is have a terrible season, but better than Carricks.
Gerrard – Scholes: Gerrard is again having a poor domestic season and hasn’t had his heart in it for whatever reason, Scholes has been a revelation for United this season with one of the best years of his career.
Gonzalez – Giggs: Gonzalez not getting enough game time but hasn’t been performing when he does. Giggs has been excellent.
Kuyt – Rooney: Rooney has had a poor year, Kuyt has been playing well but could do better. Would have to admit I would prefer Rooney than Kuyt.
Bellamy – Saha: Bellamy all the way missed a good few chances this year and Saha has had a decent year for a player of his limited ability but Bellamy is the better player.


Overall there is maybe 2/3 players between Liverpool and United, which I believe will be fixed over the summer. but 5/6 is pure b$....

and this has to be Giggs' and Scholes' last 40 + game season, with not much left in VDS and Neville soon to follow. so lets not pretend united are in this great position - not much coming through at the moment is there?

mike65

PHB is one of the busiest contributors to this LIVERPOOL thread!

Mike.

PiE

PHB wrote:

Many, many words

Your really long posts only look impressive to those who don't actually read them.

PHB wrote:

New winger - Gonzalez - Garcia - Zenden would be pretty of championship quality [in a 4-4-2 system]

Honestly... what on Earth are you talking about? Four wingers in a 4-4-2 formation?

PHB wrote:

But to partner a player like that, you need one who can read the game really well and has some pace.

Oh dear. You might not have noticed this because y'know, it's only mentioned every time Liverpool play a game, but Carragher's main strength is his ability to read the game because, as you put it.. he does lack a little bit of pace. (Not as much as some people tend to make out though). Agger has barely put a foot wrong this season and seemed to have very little problems keeping better strikers than Rooney quiet in many games. He's only going to go from strength to strength playing beside Carragher week-in, week-out.

All these ifs and buts about Alves are irrelevant. We couldn't afford to splash £14m on one player at a time when others were also needed.

herbieflowers

If liverpool find a quality finisher then they'll do well next season. It's not the creativity that's the problem, they do enough of that, they just spurn too many good chances. Defensively, they've been as good as Man U this season so there's not much of a problem there, although Reina can be dodgy at the best of times. I'd rather see Gerrard in the middle with Sissoko tbh, it's his best position, bursting forward etc.

event

mike65 wrote:

PHB is one of the busiest contributors to this LIVERPOOL thread!

Mike.

he seems to speak a lot more sense than others though

can non-liverpool fans not contribute to this thread?

Zapp Brannigan

Barca sniffin at Momo apparently.

Would it be a massive loss to see him go? It would see Gerrard cemented in the center and then competition between Mascherano and Alonso. I'd think we could cope without him.

Chucky the tree

we'd be ****ed without him.

Zapp Brannigan

I dunno, Gerrard can adapt to Momo's role. He's a great tackler he just has gotten rusty at it cos he's always on the wing.

Stky10

~Rebel~ wrote:

Thats true, but we also heard it before with Fowler and Owen, so fingers crossed he'll be more like them.

A lot of Mellors goals were down to his big strong bustling nature, so he was caught a bit against better opposition, at least Linfield is more on a par with fowler in owen in terms of size/build/style. Nippy guy who gets all sorts of goals. Lets hope he can keep it up for the next few years and build on what he's done!

I have to say im optimistic about the currect crop of youths, on target for 2 FA youth cup's in a row. Jay Spearing seems a quality player too.

I don't know.. I remember reading reserve match reports that raved about Mellor's finishing. Personally from what I saw of him I thought he was a bit awkward, and slow, but the fact that he would shoot from anywhere (ie the last minute goal against Arsenal) meant that by the law of averages some would go in.

Ultimately he needed to lose weight, as his body wasn't able to support his weight and carry out the physical requirements of a professional sportsman, and that was probably a factor in the number of injuries he got that meant he never developed as he should have done. He'll always be remembered for that Arsenal goal, and helping the come back in the home game against Olympakos.

From what I've seen of Lindfield, he seems taller than Fowler or Owen. With Pongolle seemingly being sold, he might be the fifth choice next year, but hopefully they'll send him out on loan for a while.

You're right though, the reports about Spearing make him out to be some player, but with all the young players they've bought recently, I don't know how they're going to manage giving them all a game.

They're bringing another one in for trial

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=457208&CPID=8&title=Trialist+to+return+to+Reds&lid=&channel=Football_Home&f=rss&clid=14

BlackWizard

Slurms wrote:

I dunno, Gerrard can adapt to Momo's role. He's a great tackler he just has gotten rusty at it cos he's always on the wing.

I'd like to see Gerrard play that holding role also. The sort of role Carrack holds at United. For a good while now, I've thought he just hasn't got that creative attacking midfielder mentality to play as the creative force driving Liverpool forward.

Lex Luthor

If only Collymore & Fowler were 10yrs younger....

el rabitos

Lex Luthor wrote:

If only Collymore & Fowler were 10yrs younger....

they'd be arsing about in nightclubs and wouldnt last 1 transfer window under benitez

now if only jari litmanen was 10 years younger...

mike65

Flo-po to stay in Spain 4 million is the offer by the looks of it.

Mike.

Attractive Nun

Call_me_al, as much as I agree that PHB can have his United blinkers on (and I am also a United fan), I must disagree with your analysis of the player -v- player competition between the two clubs. To use your own system, but changing one or two pairings around for accuracy:

Reina - VDS: VDS more solid and experienced, Reina is also an excellent keeper having a good season, but the odd Liverpool-esque gaff make VDS the better keeper.
Finnan - Neville: Both similarly solid players, not much to choose between them with Neville more defensive and Finnan more offensive, but Neville's improved attack this season coupled with his abilities as a leader make him the slightly better player IMO.
Agger - Ferdinand: Agger has done fantastically well this season, and has a great future, but Ferdinand - as much as he is slagged - is an outstanding defender, usually. He also complements Vidic better than Agger. Ferdinand, right now, is the better player.
Carragher - Vidic: Both outstanding defenders. Carragher is obviously more experienced but Vidic has had a better season. Still, I'll call this a draw.
Riise – Evra: Riise is the better defender and he has his rifle left foot, so I'll agree with you here, Riise over Evra. If Heinze continues to find form though, he destroys both of them.
Pennant - Ronaldo: Ronaldo by a country mile.
Alonso – Carrick: I really like Alonso, but he has been having a shocking season. Carrick has been having a decent enough season; he isn't as good a player but is playing better than Alonso. Overall, I'll call it another draw.
Gerrard – Scholes: Scholes, right now, is the best central midfielder in the Premiership.
Gonzalez – Giggs: Giggs by a country mile.
Bellamy - Rooney: As shockingly poor as Rooney has been playing, I'll have to give this one to him. Bellamy still isn't near his quality.
Kuyt – Saha: Saha isn't much of a player, IMO, no idea how he did so well at the start of the season. I'll give this one to Kuyt.

So, IMO, United have 7 players who are better, Liverpool have 2, with 2 draws. That gives United 5 over Liverpool, and that's being generous. In other words...

Overall there is maybe 2/3 players between Liverpool and United, which I believe will be fixed over the summer. but 5/6 is pure b$....

Not true.

PiE

I wasn't gonna reply to this until I saw how you cleverly switched the Rio/Carra comparisons, but hey... I've nothing better to do at this hour.

Van der Sar has had as many gaffes as Reina this season. Draw.

I'd call Neville/Finnan a draw too as we're not talking about leadership, and Finnan's contribution to Liverpool's excellent defence is often overlooked.

Why would you switch Carra with Agger to compete with Rio? If anything Carra should be compared to Rio due to the fact that they're both the senior partners in both centre-back pairings. And in that case, I really think it's a shocker that Rio still gets the nod over Carragher for the England squad and is more a throw-back to Erikkson than a true judgement of player talent. Either way, there's noooo feckin' way Vidic is anywhere near Carragher. Laughable to think otherwise.

Hard to call between Agger and Vidic... both had a couple of iffy moments, but I'd still take Agger as I think he'll improve more over the coming seasons.

Alonso over Carrick, any day. He may be having a bad season, but it's only a bad season compared to what we know he has done/can do... and is still light-years ahead of Carrick in every department.

Scholes, Scholesy, Scholes... I'd really like to see why Utd fans are saying he's the best midfielder in the league; now or ever. Gerrard again.

Bellamy works much harder for the team than Rooney. The latter, in my opinion, has reached his peak prematurely... which unfortunately for England, plateaued about a year ago. But yea I'd still probably take him over Bellamy.

Three players. Though the only 2 I'd take are Rooney and Ronaldo; Giggs is finished after this season and Rooney would be at a push.

Not true.

Quite true.

Zapp Brannigan

Rafa's apparently looking at this young spanish striker.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=457583&CPID=23&clid=14&lid=&title=Arizmendi+quiet+on+Reds+link

only 5 goals in 25 appearances, hardly our answer is he?

astrofool

I'm sure the season will bear out your assessment of Liverpool PiE...

Chardee MacDennis

Attractive Nun i have to call a bit of bs in that post - if there was a EPL 'draft' and you had the choice of Vidic or Carra, you would seriously pick Vidic? No matter how much of an impact Vidic has made this season Carra is the 2nd best CB in the EPL and I dont know if there is anyone comparable to Carra and Terry anywhere at the moment.

Leadership skills? if we are counting that then Gerrard over Scholes by a long way, when was the last time Scholes picked the united team up by the collar to win a CL and FA cup?

Alonso V Carrick - so are Barcelona currently banging down Fergies door to buy Carrick like they are to us for Alonso? No, you know why? Coz he pales in comparison. Alonso's range of passing is untouchable and his vision and reading of the game is amazing. Carrcik has not, in his time at WHUFC, THFC and MUFC, displayed anywhere near the passing skills or vision Alonso has. A mediocre game for Alonso, which i'll admit are happening too much for comfort, is a good game for Carrick.

I'll be honest with you and say, out of that 22, the eleven best players imho, man for man, are:

Reina
Finnan
Carra
Vidic
Riise
Ronaldo
Scholes(just on this seasons performance - but if both players were on top form it would be Gerrard)
Alonso
Giggs
Rooney*
Kuyt*


6 v 5 on this seasons form, but Gerrard would sneak it on Scholes if in his best form.


*I accept I compared the wrong strikers and bellers is a more matched comparison to rooney than saha.

jesus_thats_gre

Slurms wrote:

Rafa's apparently looking at this young spanish striker.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=457583&CPID=23&clid=14&lid=&title=Arizmendi+quiet+on+Reds+link

only 5 goals in 25 appearances, hardly our answer is he?

Obviously not being bought as the "answer" either in fairness!!! He is being bought for the potential that either Rafa or the scouting team see in him..

jesus_thats_gre

The difference between United and Liverpool this season has basically been their wingers and strikers.. Giggs and Ronadlo are having the seasons of their lives. Asides from that, there is little or no difference between the teams across the back. Liverpool have have stronger central midfield options while United have a better striking line up.

cson

Ah, the prospect of the quadruple over Liverpool on Sat brings a bit of interest to an otherwise useless season. Hopefully Baptista will play. Then he can feck off back to Madrid.

event

PiE wrote:

Scholes, Scholesy, Scholes... I'd really like to see why Utd fans are saying he's the best midfielder in the league; now or ever. Gerrard again.

.

im neither a man u or a pool fan (leeds one) but that statement is madness

Zapp Brannigan

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Obviously not being bought as the "answer" either in fairness!!! He is being bought for the potential that either Rafa or the scouting team see in him..

He might have potential but that's not what we need. We need a proven striker to solve our goalscoring troubles.

el rabitos

Slurms wrote:

He might have potential but that's not what we need. We need a proven striker to solve our goalscoring troubles.

i'm sure rafa is aware of this

PiE

event wrote:

im neither a man u or a pool fan (leeds one) but that statement is madness

Yea yea, I hear that everytime I question the 'brilliance' of Scholes.

He's done bugger all of note in any of the games I've seen him in this season. His stats aren't exactly awe-inspiring for a "dangerous" player (5 goals, 1 assist in 23 games). So if someone can please point out why he's so good, I'd appreciate it. 'Cos really, I'm struggling.

Waster

I'm afriad that I'd have to pick Evra ahead of Riise. I like Riise but I don't really think that he's good enough for us week in, week out. His one-footedness and tendency to be caught out of position and propersity to hoof it will lead Rafa to look for another left back unless Insua comes on rapidly. Think he tried to address it with Aurelio. Maybe Bale will be bought during the summer if we get our millions of $.
A mate rang me after lunch to say that he had two tickets for the arsenal match for me. I'm over the moon. Wasn't looking forward to trying to buy them at the Anfield on Sat morning.

jesus_thats_gre

Slurms wrote:

He might have potential but that's not what we need. We need a proven striker to solve our goalscoring troubles.

Do you propose ignoring young players with alot of potential?

Zapp Brannigan

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Do you propose ignoring young players with alot of potential?

For the moment, yes. We already have a few prospects so why not buy age and proven class?

el rabitos

Slurms wrote:

For the moment, yes. We already have a few prospects so why not buy age and proven class?

i doubt the bank is being broke to pay for these prospects, and i'd be fairly certain liverpool can afford to invest in young prospects and invest in the first team

arsenal have a settled team and for other various reasons have had more money than liverpool to be investing huge money on young prospects like walcott and still supplement the first team every year. liverpool, under benitez in particular have been forced to buy in bulk in terms of young prospects and hope that amongst the talent thats aquired, a couple of players fullfill their potential and progress to the first team

BolBill

Carrick better than Alonso, what a load of ****e !

most games you watch United play in you dont realise Carrick is on the pitch !!!!

Even on a bad day Alonso is 10 times the player Carrick is.

Over-rated and English, just like Rio, Fat Frank, Rooney, etc

PHB

The difference between United and Liverpool this season has basically been their wingers and strikers. Asides from that, there is little or no difference between the teams across the back. Liverpool have have stronger central midfield options while United have a better striking line up.

I'd pretty much agree with all of that.

Although, I do feel they are lacking in the CB department, even if you think Agger is already a top player, if him or Carragher were injured, the replacement is Hyypia, who is just too old. The squad cover is not as strong as United who have Heinze/Brown/Slyvestre(ugh) to cover.

But, while Liverpool have stronger central midfield options, United have just as good a central midfield.
Scholes-Carrick is as good as Gerrard-Alonso
Whether individually each player is as good etc, you can't doubt the performances of Scholes-Carrick this season in midfield. They are a huge part of the reason we are doing so well. United have had no real injuries in midfield, if we had, the premiership story would be very different.

The differences is, United have two players who are good, and just need to add depth. I don't think Carrick or Scholes needs to be replaced for next season, just more depth needs to come in, and then make the team stronger.

However, the weakness in United's squad, in central midfield, are not the same as the weaknesses in Liverpools squad. While in central midfield, we already have a pretty damm good partnership, on the wings and up front, Liverpool don't have that quality.
If you look at United's midfield, you have three qualities of players,
Scholes - top class
Carrick - very good
Fletcher - good

Liverpool basically have (to continue the comparision) two Carricks on the wings, and two Carricks up front. Then after that they have a couple of Fletchers.
There are no Scholes' on the wings or up front for Liverpool, i.e. there are no top players up front.

Kuyt is quite clearly in the Carrick league, and will possibly get to the Scholes level in the future.
Bellamy/Crouch just aren't. Just look at the amount of misses they have had this season, with the service they have gotten, they should be on 20 goals each.

On the wings,
they have Gonzalez, Pennant, Zenden, Kewell, none of which are in the Scholes league, I'd put Gonzalez/Zenden in the Carrick league, with Pennant/Kewell (after injuries) in the Fletcher league.

What this means is that, say next season, when United strengthen midfield, we will have Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Fletcher.
Hargreaves is closer to the Scholes league than Carrick, and will probably get better. We then have a greatly improved squad, and now have really all you need in midfield.

Liverpool, even if they buy a top class winger and striker, at the level of Scholes will still be weak.

If you buy say Robben and Villa (just off the top of my head)
Up front you will have

Villa
Kuyt
Bellamy
Crouch

and on the wings, you will have,

Robben
Gonzalez
Zenden
Kewell
Pennant

This is basically the situation that United are in this year in midfield. We have one world class player, one very good player, and one good player.
Liverpool will have, one world class player, one/two very good player and a couple of crap players.

To get to the championship winning level, i.e. to be totall covered, you need two top class players and a very good player to cover, with a good player as backup.

I'm not suggesting that United are totally covered in every department, I think we are weak in both central midfield and on the wings for the next season, but currently, Liverpool are weak on the wings and up front.
The difference is, to fix it, United need to buy one player in each position, while Liverpool need to buy two.
The logic behind this is simple,
United's midfield are currently: Top Class, Very good, Good
United's wingers are currently: Top Class, Very good, Good

While
Liverpools wingers are currently: Very good, Very good, good, good
Liverpools strikers are currently: Very good, Good, Good

They are a step behind, and need to take two steps to get back to the level.

patmac

Did anyone else hear that Riise was declared bankrupt. It was reported on RTE sportsnews, something to do with an unpaid £100,000 debt, seems a bit odd as he's on £50k a week, bit early for April fools.