Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

mike65

Liverpool prefer to develop thier own - Gerrard, Owen, McManaman (erm)

Mike.

PHB

Dried up a bit, that said, so have nearly all the youth academies, bar West Ham (take a second to imagine the team they would have if they kept all of their players) McManaman was the best player ever to come out of Liverpool, incredible player.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

They were emerging talents. I'm talking about a world class player. Nani and Anderson aren't world class players, they are emerging talents. A world class player is signing somebody like Shevchenko or somebody.

When was the last time United signed that kind of player?

herbieflowers

They didn't. Keane, Giggs, Scholes etc. all became world-class, in my biased Man U view, by playing for Man U.

Mr Alan

Exactly, in the same way Gerrard, Owen, Alonso, Carragher all did for liverpool

PHB

When was the last time United signed that kind of player?

Ferdinand, Veron, Rooney, Hargreaves?

United are actually a lot better at buying youth talents who become world stars, but we do sign world class players when we have to, and we can get them, which was the point I was making.

shatners basoon

Well United signed Saha, Ruud, Smith, Veron and now Hargreaves, plenty others i'm sure of. Needless to say in both cases (the other being young potential) the player can underperform or do exactly what they were bought for.

PHB

But in general, just look at Uniteds signings last season.
Three players were brought in,
Vidic, Carrick and Evra

All of whom could stepped up last season and really contributed. Liverpool need those types of players, and they haven't been getting them lately.

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

Ferdinand, Veron, Rooney, Hargreaves?

United are actually a lot better at buying youth talents who become world stars, but we do sign world class players when we have to.

hargreaves. right.

world class. what the hell does that even mean ffs. thats a thread on its own

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

Ferdinand, Veron, Rooney, Hargreaves?

United are actually a lot better at buying youth talents who become world stars, but we do sign world class players when we have to.

Ferdinand - not world class imho
Rooney - wasnt world class when United signed him, he had buckets of potential, but hardly a Shevchenko as you said
Hargreaves - no doubt he is talented but are world class players booed by their own fans? dont think so
Veron - ok, maybe a point there (didnt work out the best though )

~Rebel~

I do want to see to class, finished articles come in, but at the same time i want us to maintain the soul of the club, the same as United have, by still having youth players coming through so theres always that link to the area.

Id be happy enough for zenden, kewell and gonzalez (loan hopefully) to all leave and have Hamill as backup. He deserves it. Same goes for Anderson (though he's not strictly a liverpool lad), and would really love to see Lindfield getg integrated a bit this year, though couldnt see that happening much as 5th in pecking order.

shatners basoon

Well world class isn't the best word but proven on some good scale e.g. international etc. etc. Basically players who cost a lot to buy and won't be much better 5 years after you buy them:p

herbieflowers

The key to building a successful side is either a) signing / developing a team of young players and letting them develop over a few seasons (which does and doesn't always work) or b) sign quality players (Chelsea) - or a combination of both of these policies...

PHB

World class is a fun debate, personally I think if you are one of the top 5 players in your position, you're up there as World Class.

Either way, whether you agree with those players being world class or not is besides the point, the point is they came in, for big money, and instantly added to the team. [p.s. the Rooney purchase is the same as the Tevez purchase would be]

The key to building a successful side is either a) signing / developing a team of young players and letting them develop over a few seasons (which does and doesn't always work) or b) sign quality players (Chelsea) - or a combination of both of these policies...

Indeed, that is the best way. However, Rafa has been doing an inbetween. He has been signing some really great emerging talents, and been signing some average players as 'stop-gaps', which is why there is so many average players in the Liverpool squad. This wasted money could have been spent signing either young talent, or real talent, but it wasn't. This is why liverpool still haven't pushed in the league.
If Liverpool want to go down that route of the mix, they will have to wait 2/3 years until those young players can emerge. If they want to try and challenge next year, they need real talent being bought

Mr Alan

i think the stop gap players were brought in only to steady the ship if you will while Liverpool went through a transitional period and major finance was not available to Rafa (remember it was vital that Liverpool continued to get Champions League ball in order to attract the likes of Gillette and Hicks).

Hopefully there'll be less of that and a few class signings before the summer is out.

missingtime

The more and more i hear about players that we could have bought makes me freaking sick.
Makes you wonder how anyone could make the team win the premiership with that attitude.
Even spurs and newcastle - manager spots a player hes bought.

Now with everyone and their aunt looking at Alves he's price will go up further when he could have been bought for 10 or 12 million.

Bahhh - i hate you Parry grrrr

zing

PHB wrote:

World class is a fun debate, personally I think if you are one of the top 5 players in your position, you're up there as World Class.

Personally I'd put it as in the running for euro/world player of the year. And possibly domestic as well but to a lesser degree.

Indeed, that is the best way. However, Rafa has been doing an inbetween. He has been signing some really great emerging talents, and been signing some average players as 'stop-gaps', which is why there is so many average players in the Liverpool squad. This wasted money could have been spent signing either young talent, or real talent, but it wasn't. This is why liverpool still haven't pushed in the league.
If Liverpool want to go down that route of the mix, they will have to wait 2/3 years until those young players can emerge. If they want to try and challenge next year, they need real talent being bought

You're making a valid point about Liverpool not signing any big names for a few years and/or not being able to splash the cash when it comes to main targets. However people seem to be hung up on Rafa wasting money on 'stop-gaps'. How much money has actually been wasted then and how could it have been better spent ? If Rafa had done what you suggest we'd have a few better players yes but absolutely no depth to the squad and would not be able to cope with injuries or try and compete in the 4 competitions. Would that be a better position to be in now ? Yes we could have bought Z instead of X & Y but who'd have covered for Y if he was injured ?

The likes of Ferguson & Wenger have had the luxury of building squads over many years which is one of the main reasons they can now afford to splash out on their main targets. Rafa has been trying to get to that level in a lot shorter timeframe and while he's brought in some very good players (e.g. Agger, Reina, Alonso, etc..) he's also brought in some duds but is very quick to realise this and offloads them quickly - by my reckoning these haven't cost the club very much at all (see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53312695&postcount=7635) while providing cover for many positions. Another few likely to go this season (e.g. Gonzalez, Bellamy & Paletta)

Yes we've not been in the same league for spending as other clubs but you can't overall a team overnight (unless that team is Chelsea). It's not as simple as going out and buying 11 superstars. Granted a few of his purchases have surprised me but for the most part I think he's been doing very well with the resources he has available. I honestly think it's too easy to say he's wasted money without fully understanding the task he has.

Tusky

I read somewhere recently that Rafas net outlay (when you take into account the players he has sold as well) it under 50m over the past three years. Quite impressive seeing as the squad has completely changed and has a very sold spine running through it.

~Rebel~

i havent seen any links at all for this, its just purely hypathetical, but what would people think of Adriano? He really went out of the limelight this year with Ibrahimavic and Crespo being first choice. He only made 15 starts, but his pace and power are still incredible. Can be a great finisher on his day, but still definately needs some work in this area.

Tusky

~Rebel~ wrote:

i havent seen any links at all for this, its just purely hypathetical, but what would people think of Adriano? He really went out of the limelight this year with Ibrahimavic and Crespo being first choice. He only made 15 starts, but his pace and power are still incredible. Can be a great finisher on his day, but still definately needs some work in this area.

He would be a risk that may well pay off but I dont think we should be taking risks at the moment. Need at established striker that is in form.

The problem is...I dont see us signing any of Villa, Eto'o, Torre or Tevez. I have a feeling alot of Liverpool fans may be quite disappointed during this transfer market.

zing

Tusky wrote:

I have a feeling alot of Liverpool fans may be quite disappointed during this transfer market.

I'll for one will be far more disappointed if we don't sign players quickly than if we don't sign one of Tevez/Villa/etc.. Would be a clear indicator that we're still pissing about rather than moving forward.

joe123

PHB is making really good points. Liverpool need to spend big now.

United every season spend big from 17 million to 30 million on the likes of rooney, ferdinand, nani, hargreaves, carrick just off the top of my head.

Liverpools most expensive signing was Diouf I think....Alonso was not a world class player when we signed him. Infact most people didnt know who he was unless you watched spanish football.He was a sub on the Spain team.

Its time now Liverpool started competing. Thinking liverpool are ok with Crouch or Kuyt up front are kidding themselves. Crouch is good in situations and Kuyt is a grafter but their certainly not on the level of Rooney or Drogba or Henry.

If Tevez/villa/torres/eto are going to cost 30 million so be it, we have to spend big this time and not end up buying someone whos a good average player.

How many times have liverpool not finished their chances this season? Our wingers are average but its our strikers who havent been converting. We need a major striker and if it happens to cost 30 million thats what it costs.

In my oppinion thinking liverpool can get by with more alright buys is just a joke. Letto is unproven and most havent even seen him play yet. We need simao we need alves.We simply need players who if bought would make their way onto the first team straight away. Not sure why we bought Vornin but it was on a free and most likely he will be a bench warmer as should crouch and Kuyt. With the strikers we have we cant compete.Its as simple as that really.

Tevez 30 million
eto 30 million
alves 17 million
simao 12 million

Its time for us to start buying some world class now instead of the pennants and zendans of this world.

Chucky the tree

joe123 wrote:

PHB is making really good points. Liverpool need to spend big now.

United every season spend big from 17 million to 30 million on the likes of rooney, ferdinand, nani, hargreaves, carrick just off the top of my head.

Liverpools most expensive signing was Diouf I think

Cisse i think it was.

Out of those players you named, only rooney was worth the money.

joe123 wrote:

....Alonso was not a world class player when we signed him. Infact most people didnt know who he was unless you watched spanish football.He was a sub on the Spain team.

World class players like Ballack?

So? He was wanted by Real madrid and proved himself to be class in La liga, why do we have to sign a player jsut becuase people know his name?

joe123 wrote:

Its time now Liverpool started competing. Thinking liverpool are ok with Crouch or Kuyt up front are kidding themselves. Crouch is good in situations and Kuyt is a grafter but their certainly not on the level of Rooney or Drogba or Henry.

I'll agree crouch isnt good enough, but Drogba was consider a useless donkey in his first season, i think Kuty deserves more time.

joe123 wrote:

If Tevez/villa/torres/eto are going to cost 30 million so be it, we have to spend big this time and not end up buying someone whos a good average player.

Morientes was considered class aswell, absolute muck he turned out too be. I dont think torress would cut it in the PL. Tevez isnt worth 30million based on half a season in the EPL.

joe123 wrote:

Its time for us to start buying some world class now instead of the pennants and zendans of this world.

People seem to forget the reason Zenden was bought, it was as a squad player. Same reason united have kept hold of richardson.

PHB

Cisse i think it was.

Out of those players you named, only rooney was worth the money.

This is the common thing that people say. Of course Ferdinand wasn't worth 30 million individually, but in terms of his contribution, and when you add that Vidic cost 8 million, that pairing cost 38 million. That's worth it

Look at Carragher, great CB. Needs somebody like Rio in style to partner him. Say you bought Carvalho for 30 million. Of course he wouldn't be worth 30 million on his own, but in terms of his contribution to the team, he's worth it in that you'd have Carragher and Carvalho for 30 million, which would totally be worth it.

Carrick wasn't worth 18 million, but he was the only addition and we won the league. Is that worth 18 million?

Big name players bought for big prices are never really 'worth' the money, but they are the reason United are where they are today, and you just can't argue with results.

People need to movepast this mindset.

shatners basoon

I disagree, you could put the same formula with chelski- spent how much last summer- did they win the CL? players are only really that overpriced when either A- the club doesn't want to sell them - Carrick, Hargreaves etc. or B-bidding war. Carrick is hardly the reason that United won the league, it was more so to do to - great start of the season, mostly injury free + trouble in Chelki's camp.

Teams can do really well in the league without big name players (look at the spanish league where Sevilla an excellent team but without the big name stars of Barca and Real are still in with a shot), however you need the right balance in the team to win. Pool are close but are missing a good striker (though one of our current ones could always have a better season next year ala Drogba) and better winger(s). Our title aspirations were pretty much over when the season started and thats what they need to avoid most- a sluggish start. Other than that if we sort our away form out (how the hell do you do that?) the situation will seem much brighter.

Naturally i still feel that they should definately buy some quality this summer especially to replace the crummier members of the team. I'd be happy with any of the names that are popping up tbh!

Look at Carragher, great CB. Needs somebody like Rio in style to partner him. Say you bought Carvalho for 30 million. Of course he wouldn't be worth 30 million on his own, but in terms of his contribution to the team, he's worth it in that you'd have Carragher and Carvalho for 30 million, which would totally be worth it.

Agger isn't a CB i'd like to see replaced and he certainly didn't cost £30million! I see what you're saying but you've got to use better examples!

Zapp Brannigan

I know it's still early but I'm with Tusky. I reckon this summer will be a disappointing one. I remember last summer where I got excited cos we were being linked to alot of the players we are now but nothing happened. Unless it's all completely hush-hush and Rafa's gonna announce a myriad of signings come Monday I'm seriously worried about the future.

Chucky the tree

PHB wrote:

This is the common thing that people say. Of course Ferdinand wasn't worth 30 million individually, but in terms of his contribution, and when you add that Vidic cost 8 million, that pairing cost 38 million. That's worth it

Look at Carragher, great CB. Needs somebody like Rio in style to partner him. Say you bought Carvalho for 30 million. Of course he wouldn't be worth 30 million on his own, but in terms of his contribution to the team, he's worth it in that you'd have Carragher and Carvalho for 30 million, which would totally be worth it.

Carrick wasn't worth 18 million, but he was the only addition and we won the league. Is that worth 18 million?

Big name players bought for big prices are never really 'worth' the money, but they are the reason United are where they are today, and you just can't argue with results.

People need to movepast this mindset.

You never fail too make me laugh! Cheers.

Jazzy

id be happy with 2 of either malouda/silva/mancini and michael owen as our only signings this summer

Tusky

joe123 wrote:

In my oppinion thinking liverpool can get by with more alright buys is just a joke. Letto is unproven and most havent even seen him play yet. We need simao we need alves.We simply need players who if bought would make their way onto the first team straight away. Not sure why we bought Vornin but it was on a free and most likely he will be a bench warmer as should crouch and Kuyt. With the strikers we have we cant compete.Its as simple as that really.

Tevez 30 million
eto 30 million
alves 17 million
simao 12 million

Its time for us to start buying some world class now instead of the pennants and zendans of this world.

I rest my case. This is exactly why I think alot of Liverpool fans are going to be dissapointed....because they are dillued. We are NOT going to sign Tevez & Eto'o, its unlikely that we will sign either of them!

Do you think you are playing football manager ? The players you just mentioned come to just under 90 million.

joe123

Tusky wrote:

I rest my case. This is exactly why I think alot of Liverpool fans are going to be dissapointed....because they are dillued. We are NOT going to sign Tevez & Eto'o, its unlikely that we will sign either of them!

Do you think you are playing football manager ? The players you just mentioned come to just under 90 million.

I didnt say we were going to sign both of them. I just listed the four players we have been most linked with and price theyd probably come at.

I really dont understand some peoples thinking on this thread. The fact is Chelsea spend big and in turn the get players such as Shevchenko and Essien.

United spend big and in turn they get the likes of Rooney and Ferdinand.

The fact of the matter is yes these prices are overpriced and yes alot of these buys arent worth the money but why do we have Chelsea and United streets ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal in the league? Its not because of managers as Wenger and Benitez are both great managers.

Its down to getting WORLD CLASS players. Yes we can get bellamy for 6.5, pennant for 6 Voronin on a free.Its time Liverpool stopped buying 6 players of Aston Villa quality and its time we bought 3 players of Liverpool Quality.

Whats the whole point of this takeover if all were going to do is piss about and buy more average players? Benitez stated himself if united pay 17 million for the likes of hargreaves who is a midfielder it shows what we will have to pay for a striker. The man himself said it. If all liverpool buy this season are only more decent players and no players without that bit more quality it will only end up the same again next year. Henry said Arsenal have to spend this summer aswell.

And yes drogba was considered a donkey in his first season. They still spent 28 million on him. We now have to spend that on the likes of villa/eto/torres/tevez. Who knows could be a disaster but at least we are competing!

~Rebel~

few things;
First off - calm down lads! christ, seasons been over a week and a day at this point. The spanish league is still going for chrissake! Did you ever think that its not always the buying club that slows down the process? Any selling club with a big player on their hands would be stupid to just sell up without seeing who's looking around. They want the most money they can get so would be totally illogical for them to sell to the first bidder. Man U got their 2 guys, but at avery very high cost, i still dont think liverpool are in a position to overpay to that extent this early. If we have to overpay, it'll be later in the window when we dont have a choice because theres competition from other teams.

And on Alonso, just because some people hadn't heard of him didnt make him less quality. I was over the moon when i heard we got him, it was a major major coup, for gods sake the man was instrumental in almost securing Sociedad the title! It was nigh on a miracle (well actually just Rafas influence) that got him.

There is no point in being upset by this window - regardless of what happens - untill we see the fruits of it in practice next season. Dont be too surprised to see someone of a slightly lesser profile like Amauri or Alfonso Alves come in and do the job we need them to.

Im not so gone on danny alves so much anymore. watched him a lot this season and i just dont like him. often seems a whiney moany diving type of player. He's good going forward, but for the money at this point i would prefer simao or Mancini.

Tusky

joe123 wrote:

I didnt say we were going to sign both of them. I just listed the four players we have been most linked with and price theyd probably come at.

I really dont understand some peoples thinking on this thread. The fact is Chelsea spend big and in turn the get players such as Shevchenko and Essien.

United spend big and in turn they get the likes of Rooney and Ferdinand.

The fact of the matter is yes these prices are overpriced and yes alot of these buys arent worth the money but why do we have Chelsea and United streets ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal in the league? Its not because of managers as Wenger and Benitez are both great managers.

Its down to getting WORLD CLASS players. Yes we can get bellamy for 6.5, pennant for 6 Voronin on a free.Its time Liverpool stopped buying 6 players of Aston Villa quality and its time we bought 3 players of Liverpool Quality.

Whats the whole point of this takeover if all were going to do is piss about and buy more average players? Benitez stated himself if united pay 17 million for the likes of hargreaves who is a midfielder it shows what we will have to pay for a striker. The man himself said it. If all liverpool buy this season are only more decent players and no players without that bit more quality it will only end up the same again next year. Henry said Arsenal have to spend this summer aswell.

And yes drogba was considered a donkey in his first season. They still spent 28 million on him. We now have to spend that on the likes of villa/eto/torres/tevez. Who knows could be a disaster but at least we are competing!

Everyone wants better players at Liverpool, im not disputing that. Im merely saying that alot of Liverpool fans are going to be dissapointed as the bar has been set too high. We wont sign, Eto'o, Villa or Tevez (as much as I would love to have any of them) - hence, alot of people will be dissapointed.

RE*AC*TOR

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=41933

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez is ready to offer a whopping £40 million to Barcelona for striker Samuel Eto'o.

Catalan radio reported last night that Benitez has made the Cameroon ace his top target and is willing to bid £40 million for the striker - and also discuss the possibility of Xabi Alonso moving in the opposite direction to bring down the cash component.

However, while Eto'o has publicly stated he'd welcome the chance to play regularly in front of Liverpool's fans, AS says he favours a move to Arsenal and the chance to work with Arsene Wenger.

Tusky

I call bull****.

Mr Alan

I'll second that call.

But it would be great, obviously!

el rabitos

be shocked to ever see rafa spend over 20 mill for anyone

Zapp Brannigan

MGP's agent has said the top 5 clubs are all sniffing around him. Though out of the 5 I can only see Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs actually being interested.

Personally I think he's a good player and he'd give us a threat from set pieces. When was the last time we scored a free-kick or from a corner?

Mr Alan

so would i, but i do think thats what will happen, especially after him saying that about United spending 17 million on Hargreaves

Zapp Brannigan

Apparently Juve want Momo and they're offering £10million.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=469752&CPID=21&clid=14&lid=&title=JUVENTUS+MAKE+SISSOKO+MOVE

EDIT: also Saviola becomes a free agent in the summer and he says he's had several offers and he's made his decision. Could he be Liverpool bound? Hope not! He's a bit too small.

Tusky

I think we should be aiming higher than Pederson. Hes a good player but would he be good enough to play for Chelsea, Man Utd, Barcelona, AC Milan, Real Madrid...Inter ? I dont think so. We have signed enough 'v.good' players and need to sign some excellent ones!

RE*AC*TOR

Slurms wrote:

Apparently Juve want Momo and they're offering £10million.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=469752&CPID=21&clid=14&lid=&title=JUVENTUS+MAKE+SISSOKO+MOVE

i'd bite their ****ing hands off

Mr Alan

The monday i arrived in Athens, met this fella Scouse fella who said that he'd heard that beyond any doubt, Sissoko was going to Juve for between 10-15 million in the summer.

Presumed it wasn't true, but with this coming to light on SSN now, who knows!?

Tusky

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

i'd bite their ****ing hands off

I would too..only if we can 100% secure Mascheranos future at Anfield though..

Gerrard
Alonso
Sissoko
Lucas
Mascherano

Too many cooks spoil the broth as they say. So we could be looking at...

Sissoko - 10m
Gonzalez - 5m
Pongolle - 2.5m
Cisse - 5m ?
Carson - 2m ?
Bellamy - 8m
Le tallec - (?)
Zenden - Free
Fowler - Free
Dudek - Free

In and around 35 m from transfers...not bad.

Zapp Brannigan

Speedy's fee is 5million euro. So around £3 million.
Sissokos fee should be used to buy Masche permanently if we haven't already!

HashSlinging

40 million, I cant see it happening. I would love to see it but it would be the highest ever signing in england.

Actually I think it will happen, the extra TV money will cover this. Is Eto'o actually worth this or is it hype. I havent watched spanish football in years due to not having SKY.

Zapp Brannigan

Eto'o has 12 goals in 15 league starts. He was out for 4 months with a knee injury so thats a pretty decent return. I think he was top goal scorer in Spain last year aswell.
He's got the lot, speed, strength, great eye for goal and he can play up front on his own.
Only thing is he can be a bit controversial, but we handled Bellamy didn't we?

RE*AC*TOR

I also like Saviola - he has a lot of talent. It would be well worth going in for him.

zing

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

i'd bite their ****ing hands off

Yeah - but they've still not got a manager in place afaik so who's buying him ? I'd bite their hands off too (assuming we defo have a fixed price first option on Masch) but I'm not buying into Momo to Juve just yet.

Mr Alan

Tusky wrote:

I think we should be aiming higher than Pederson. Hes a good player but would he be good enough to play for Chelsea, Man Utd, Barcelona, AC Milan, Real Madrid...Inter ? I dont think so. We have signed enough 'v.good' players and need to sign some excellent ones!

I actually think that Pederson is an excellent player, still young too, he definately has the potential to turn into a world beater, in a better side he may be a world beater already!

Players are only often highly rated until they make a move which turns them into world class, playing with better players, better team, confidence etc, see Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Villa, Ronaldo for example

el rabitos

i think saviola would struggle to impose his game in the premiership, he's got bags of talent, but he's very lightweight and he's got a reputation for being a pain in the arse off the pitch.

seen man utd linked with anelka this morning, he'd be ideal imo, proven scorer, wouldnt break the bank, after bellamy anelka would be no problem.

sissoko should be allowed to move on if we get a £10 million+ offer for him, it'll be double what was paid for him and despite his age, i dont see him improving a great deal as a footballer. i think macherano is an infinitely better player, theres no comparisson between the two. besides, theres too many players to fill 2 positions now.