Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

RE*AC*TOR

If this signing did come to happen it would be Liverpool's biggest signing since... well ever really. I don't just mean money wise, in terms of prestige its a couple of steps above any signing I remember Liverpool making.

jesus_thats_gre

Out curiosity, how many players that were considered successful in La Liga have been successful in the PL in recent years, particularly attacking players. Fabregas and Alonso are the only ones I can really think off.

The Rooster

Call_me_al wrote:

someone here said Bent has one goal in ten apps versus the big 4 - not good enough and over priced.
Torres.

Personally I think thats irrelevant. Charlton dont score goals against the big 4so how the heck can the Charlton striker have a good record against them? His goalscoring record ignoring games against the big 4 would be a far better reference guide.

Charlton have come out today and said they want £17m for Bent - not a penny less. At least one of Spurs or Liverpool, maybe both, have had an offer turned down.

Very difficult to compare Bent and Torres. I think with Bent you'd get a reliable goalscorer. Torres could be as bad as Morientes or as good as Rush/Fowler/Owen at their best.

Tusky

It would be easy for Torres to settle in with all the Spanish speakers at Liverpool. Torres is quicker, stronger & younger than Morientes so I think he would settle easier.

kaisersose77

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Out curiosity, how many players that were considered successful in La Liga have been successful in the PL in recent years, particularly attacking players. Fabregas and Alonso are the only ones I can really think off.

Was Fabregas playing for the Barcelona first team whe he was 15?

Tusky

his stats from the world cup -

Spain - World Cup Qualifiers = 10 games / 7 goals
Spain - World Cup = 4 games / 3 goals

Tusky

From a Spanish Liverpool supporter on another forum.

Spanish radio station Cope have informed today that Torres is joining Liverpool.

I got this from a poster in Atletico Madrid most active forum. Just browsed what the fans are saying and a few commented that the journalist sounded pretty convinced. Others say that the media is trying to "sell" Torres every summer and eventually the player never leaves.

Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.colchonero.com/atletico-de-madrid-ftopict-15621.html

****Some "insider" says that Liverpool are trying to negotiate Torres buy-out clause which is of 36 million euros.

Aparently the goal.com "exclusive" comes from this radio station who advanced the news last night.

Stky10

The Rooster wrote:

Personally I think thats irrelevant. Charlton dont score goals against the big 4so how the heck can the Charlton striker have a good record against them? His goalscoring record ignoring games against the big 4 would be a far better reference guide.

Charlton have come out today and said they want £17m for Bent - not a penny less. At least one of Spurs or Liverpool, maybe both, have had an offer turned down.

Very difficult to compare Bent and Torres. I think with Bent you'd get a reliable goalscorer. Torres could be as bad as Morientes or as good as Rush/Fowler/Owen at their best.

I'd pretty much agree. People here slagging off Bent yet praising Torres is very much "far away hills are green". Its the same as people praising Diego Milito to the hilt as well when they've seen very little of him either.

Bent has always scored goals and can play as the number one or two striker, or up front on his own. Yeah he wouldn't have huge experience of playing against packed defenses, but for a striker like him I don't think it would make a huge amount of difference. All he needs to do is get on the end of whatever comes into the box. Someone else on here saying he's not creative enough. As if Rush/Owen were back in their day, or that Torres is either. He's a finisher for gods sake. And putting down Bent because Bellamy didn't work out is farcical as well. Bellamy didn't work out because his attitude stinks, and his chances to goal ratio is rubbish.

I'm not saying he's worth 17m because he isn't, but then neither is Torres worth 25m. Its just the way the market is these days.

Tusky

Stky10 wrote:

I'd pretty much agree. People here slagging off Bent yet praising Torres is very much "far away hills are green". Its the same as people praising Diego Milito to the hilt as well when they've seen very little of him either.

Bent has always scored goals and can play as the number one or two striker, or up front on his own. Yeah he wouldn't have huge experience of playing against packed defenses, but for a striker like him I don't think it would make a huge amount of difference. All he needs to do is get on the end of whatever comes into the box. Someone else on here saying he's not creative enough. As if Rush/Owen were back in their day, or that Torres is either. He's a finisher for gods sake. And putting down Bent because Bellamy didn't work out is farcical as well. Bellamy didn't work out because his attitude stinks, and his chances to goal ratio is rubbish.

I'm not saying he's worth 17m because he isn't, but then neither is Torres worth 25m. Its just the way the market is these days.

There is a reason why there is very little interest from the big clubs in D.Bent and lots of interest in Torres from across Europe. Its not for no reason. I just feel hes a classier, more skilful player with more potential than Bent. Maybe I will be proved wrong.

The Rooster

The possible signing of Torres is very exciting though. Its hard to believe we might be signing one of the most highly rated and hyped strikers in the world! I do have major doubts whether he's up to Premiership style football, but I still got butterflies in my stomach reading some of the rumours above!

I wouldnt rule us out of signing both Bent and Torres, and recouping £20m by selling both Bellamy and Crouch.

Mitch Connor

The Rooster wrote:

The possible signing of Torres is very exciting though. Its hard to believe we might be signing one of the most highly rated and hyped strikers in the world! I do have major doubts whether he's up to Premiership style football, but I still got butterflies in my stomach reading some of the rumours above!

I wouldnt rule us out of signing both Bent and Torres, and recouping £20m by selling both Bellamy and Crouch.

You'd miss Crouch a lot imo.

Torres isn't a great goal scorer - his recond in spain is kinda poor.

Tusky

Tauren wrote:

You'd miss Crouch a lot imo.

Torres isn't a great goal scorer - his recond in spain is kinda poor.

2005-2006 Atlético de Madrid 36 13
2004-2005 Atlético de Madrid 38 16
2003-2004 Atlético de Madrid 35 19
2002-2003 Atlético de Madrid 29 13

A.Madrid only scored around 45 goals last season so 13 for Torres isnt bad. Also, he plays as a lone striker for them. He scored 10 goals in 14 games in the last world cup competetion so I think he will improve with better players around him. He had a poor season last year but the previous 3 seasons he pretty much had a goal every 2 games. Also, we have to remember, hes only 23! How prolific were Eto'o, Henry or Rooney before they moved to top clubs ? Even Tevez only scored 7 goals this season.

Stky10

Tusky wrote:

There is a reason why there is very little interest from the big clubs in D.Bent and lots of interest in Torres from across Europe. Its not for no reason. I just feel hes a classier, more skilful player with more potential than Bent. Maybe I will be proved wrong.

Well you're not comparing like with like. Torres was an underage superstar, Atletico were receiving 20-30m bids for him when he was 16 and hadn't played in the first team. But as the years have gone by his stock as fallen as his performances haven't lived up to what he promised. Look at calciomercato.com for instance and see if you can see any speculation about him like you can for Eto or loads of other players playing in Spain. There isn't. He played well in the group stages of the world cup when they were beating the minnows, but he was shown up against France when the going got tough. Rafa might be just to man to make a superstar of him though, or maybe he just needs to get away from Athletico.

The stock of Bent on the other hand is increasing. He's not a regular international yet, but once he gets a big move he will be. As well, foreign teams don't tend to buy english players, so its not a surprise that there hasn't been foreign interest. Of premiership clubs, how many of them wouldn't have him in their first choice team?. Chelsea maybe (although he'd be better than Shevchenko these days), maybe Arsenal (because they don't tend to play with classical centre forwards often and have Adebayor already for when they do), and thats about it. I'd say Man U would prefer him to either Saha or Smith.

I'm not saying that Bent is a superstar and Torres is crap, I'm saying that for me the choice between them would be mighty close (based on the 10m price difference if nothing else) and worthy of much more consideration than people seem to be giving it.

HashSlinging

Well put, I think the value on crouch has gone up a lot since he started playing for liverpool and england, I think it would be better/safer business for liverpool if we buy an english striker.

Tusky

Stky10 wrote:

Well you're not comparing like with like. Torres was an underage superstar, Atletico were receiving 20-30m bids for him when he was 16 and hadn't played in the first team. But as the years have gone by his stock as fallen as his performances haven't lived up to what he promised. Look at calciomercato.com for instance and see if you can see any speculation about him like you can for Eto or loads of other players playing in Spain. There isn't. He played well in the group stages of the world cup when they were beating the minnows, but he was shown up against France when the going got tough. Rafa might be just to man to make a superstar of him though, or maybe he just needs to get away from Athletico.

The stock of Bent on the other hand is increasing. He's not a regular international yet, but once he gets a big move he will be. As well, foreign teams don't tend to buy english players, so its not a surprise that there hasn't been foreign interest. Of premiership clubs, how many of them wouldn't have him in their first choice team?. Chelsea maybe (although he'd be better than Shevchenko these days), maybe Arsenal (because they don't tend to play with classical centre forwards often and have Adebayor already for when they do), and thats about it. I'd say Man U would prefer him to either Saha or Smith.

I'm not saying that Bent is a superstar and Torres is crap, I'm saying that for me the choice between them would be mighty close (based on the 10m price difference if nothing else) and worthy of much more consideration than people seem to be giving it.

Fair enough, you make some good points. We shall have to wait and see I suppose. Torres could very well flop in the premiership or he could become something great.

The Rooster

Tauren wrote:

You'd miss Crouch a lot imo.

I personally wouldnt!

Big bladdy stick. His awkwardness causes more problems than his ability. Nice guy though!

Tusky

The Rooster wrote:

I personally wouldnt!

Big bladdy stick. His awkwardness causes more problems than his ability. Nice guy though!

This attitude annoys me. Who cares if he is awkward, he was top scorer this season and spent alot of time on the bench.

HashSlinging

He's scored some stunning goals though it has to be said, and i think he's only getting settled into the team now.

Chardee MacDennis

very good player but he is constantly getting frees against him especially in europe

Reganio 2

I dont care how awkward Crouch is if my feckin Granny got around 20 goals a season I wouldnt care how she did as long as they count. Besides Crouch is awesome he has to had put up with people putting him down cause of his height and yet he still managed to make it to the Premiership I think that is amazing considering every game he plays he does crap (according to people on here and Sky sports)

mike65

If Crouch was sold to finance Torres (or similair) I'd be dissapointed on two counts a) he's Liverpools best and least 'playable' striker and b) it means there ain't much cash to buy with.

Mike.

Chucky the tree

If the torres signing is true, i hope he fails his medical.

Zapp Brannigan

I have my doubts about Torres but if we do sign him I think it's a great sign for the club. The fact that we're actually going for great talent rather than someone just to fill a gap.

Peyton Manning

Torres has repeatedly said he doesnt want to leave Atletico, not for United, not for Chelsea - why would the interest from Liverpool who cant mount a serious title challenge change his mind?

Tusky

Archimedes wrote:

Torres has repeatedly said he doesnt want to leave Atletico, not for United, not for Chelsea - why would the interest from Liverpool who cant mount a serious title challenge change his mind?

He said he wanted to stay once they qualified for Europe.

zing

Archimedes wrote:

Torres has repeatedly said he doesnt want to leave Atletico, not for United, not for Chelsea - why would the interest from Liverpool who cant mount a serious title challenge change his mind?

It might not - it will always be his choice (as it is with any player). Atletico have also in the past said he wasn't for sale but are now said to be open to discussions. But basically he's got a release clause in his contract and once a wannabe buying club agrees to meet that clause then Atletico are obliged to give said club permission to talk to the player. The player is in no ways obliged to accept the personal terms on offer - as is the case with any player sale. e.g. Diao being offered to Recreativo last year but not being able to agree personal terms - can't remember the details in that case but think it was to related to moving his family which is perfectly understandable.

So no one can make him change his mind - that's entirely his choice.

And why do you think Liverpool will be unable to mount a title challenge ? Do you how much they are going to spend over the summer cos noone else seems to

~Rebel~

Christ, we could be in for yet another setback...

Dominic Fifield
Thursday June 21, 2007
The Guardian


Atletico Madrid last night effectively ruled out any chance of the striker Fernando Torres leaving the club this summer. Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool have been tracking the Spain international.
The Atletico president, Enrique Cerezo, has grown tired of the speculation surrounding his captain and any bids will be rebuffed unless they trigger the release clause in his contract. That figure is understood to be around £27m, a sum out of the reach of United, Liverpool and even Chelsea, given Roman Abramovich's recent indications that such big spending at Stamford Bridge will cease.
Atletico's failure to reach next season's Uefa Cup will not force their president to hand over a player who has scored 82 goals in 212 league games since making his debut as a 17-year-old, as well as scoring 14 times in 42 matches for Spain. "Torres is an Atletico Madrid player and I think he will stay here for many years to come," Cerezo said recently. "This happens every year. Everyone talks about rumours and throws figures about but Atletico are clear. Anyway, even if we put him up for sale, would he really want to leave?"
Liverpool are still searching for recruits to Rafael Benítez's squad. The manager has spoken at length with the club's new owners, George Gillett and Tom Hicks, and Torres has been mentioned. Cerezo's stance may serve as a test as to whether the Americans boast the financial clout that had been initially envisaged. Frustration is welling among supporters as there have been no big-money signings since the new owners arrived.That is mirrored among the management staff, particularly given the plea for urgency in the market issued by Benítez in the wake of the Champions League final defeat to Milan last month. The club's chief executive, Rick Parry, continues to work behind the scenes and players are also likely to leave Anfield in the near future, potentially raising more funds for arrivals. The Wales striker Craig Bellamy has attracted interest from West Ham and abroad and Djibril Cissé could join either Bolton or Marseille.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2107861,00.html

sigh. still some chance of us just going for it and triggering the release clause though. This could be Atletico trying to save face for the fans, so they get the cash without actually agreeing to sell him

Still though, even if this Torres deal does fall apart, there is the silver lining that we now know we are in the market for big money big name players.

~Rebel~

Just stayed up to watch the second leg of the Boca V Gremio final of the Copa Libertadores.
Lucas made his first start since we signed him (i think), and played a holding midfield roll mostly. As a rule didnt venture too far forward, with the odd exception, with the rest of the midfield attacking. Was probably the best passer on the team, played nice simple clever passes. The passing for the rest of the team was pretty bad, found an opposition player as often as not. Bad game to judge Lucas on, seeing as it was against a far superior team and was his first full game for ages, but looked quite good anyway, confident, strong on the ball and good feet. Had a few gerrard-esque long range shots as well.

Who was the star for Gremio though was Carlos Eduardo, played on the right wing/wing forward, similarish to Luis Garcia. Was fantastic though, involved in everything, beating men, putting in crosses, great ball control and quick. Hopefully Rafa was watching and might take note!

Special mention to Riquelme who was fantastic for Boca. Won the game for them, it finished 2-0 with him getting both. He made 2 from the first leg too i think. All in all over the two legs fairly comprehensive victory for Boca, 5-0 on aggregate!

The Rooster

Thanks for that report Rebel.

The Irish Times today states that Liverpool had a £10m offer turned down for Darren Bent. I wonder would £10m secure Kevin Doyle? I'd prefer him to Bent.

I don't think the comments by Atletico's president changed anything. The headline "TORRES TO STAY WITH ATLETICO" is very misleading. It could easily read "PRESIDENT CONFIRMS TORRES CAN GO". The fact of the matter is that if they recieve a big enough offer he will be sold, but if they don't they'll keep him.

Peter Crouch is not, never has been, and never will be, good enough to be a starting Liverpool striker. A useful sub is the most he should be at Liverpool. At least Rafa came to realise that during the season.

zAbbo

Todays rumours

Liverpool are poised to make a £25m swoop for Atletico Madrid striker Fernando Torres. (Various)

Rafa Benitez also wants to pip Newcastle, Sunderland and Aston Villa to Villarreal's £15.5m striker Diego Forlan. (Daily Mail)

Stockport boss Jim Gannon has accused Liverpool of breaching Premier League rules by luring teenage keeper Ben Robinson to Anfield. (Daily Star)

jesus_thats_gre

The Rooster wrote:

Peter Crouch is not, never has been, and never will be, good enough to be a starting Liverpool striker. A useful sub is the most he should be at Liverpool. At least Rafa came to realise that during the season.

This attitude really pisses me off to be honest. He is that useful a sub that he scored more coming off the bench for half the season than the other strikers did combined nearly.

Dont be at yourself

The Independant says Martins has a £13 million buy-out clause

He's a class player, with a good first season in the premiership. I'd welcome him with open arms.

Lex Luthor

from what I remember from the statistics, Crouch has been more effective when he starts than coming off the bench

Zapp Brannigan

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=473069&CPID=21&clid=14&lid=&title=Roma+reject+Mancini+bid&channel=&


Nooooooooooo

Stky10

Slurms wrote:

Nooooooooooo

Things can always always get worse. It could for instance be news that a bid for deadly Diego Forlan has been accepted.

zing

Guthrie to Bolton on a seasons loan. Good move for him imo

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=473088&CPID=8&title=Bolton+land+Reds+starlet&lid=&channel=Premiership&f=rss&clid=14

Zapp Brannigan

Stky10 wrote:

Things can always always get worse. It could for instance be news that a bid for deadly Diego Forlan has been accepted.

Yeah but if the bid was rejected, judging from Rafa's record, it won't be followed up on! Boo-urns

zing

Reports coming out of Israel of us up'ing our bid for Benayoun to 4 or 4.5m. No idea how legit those reports are.

EDIT: And the Daily Mail claiming we're after Torres _AND_ Forlan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=463319&in_page_id=1779
But then the press like to make things up don't they so only believe any of it if and when you see it.

Lex Luthor

Nothing much for the press at the moment so they'll print anything to fill a page or 2.
I'm not believing anything until its on the official site

I'll still visit here regularly as you can't beat a bot of good gossip

The Rooster

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This attitude really pisses me off to be honest. He is that useful a sub that he scored more coming off the bench for half the season than the other strikers did combined nearly.

So he's on the bench so often because:

a) he's not good enough
OR
b) Rafa doesnt know what he's doing

I wonder.

Come the start of the season he'll be either sold, or Liverpool's third/fourth choice striker. And rightly so.

HashSlinging

\ignore the troll

woodyg

Benayoun seems keen on a move http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=473246&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=2&title=Yossi+flattered+by+Reds+interest&channel=football_home&
But i wouldn't read much into it as they have quoted the sun :rolleyes: .
I have a feeling there is a lot of work been done in th back ground and time will only tell.
The rumor mill is in over drive mainly cause there is little actually happening and papers need to fill column inches

raven136

Just throwing this out there,worrying if its true because its very like the situation that made Rafa leave Valencia.
On thursday graham hunter was on newstalk talking about Torres.Basicaly he was saying that the story was leaked and it was a phase of Rafa forcing the owners to back him with money.David Maddock,Guillem Ballague and Chris Bascombe have all stated that rafa cant get the players he wants because hicks and gillet wont give him cash.
This is strange that Rafa has to use his media contacts to get this supposed backing.The fans have backed him totally and now the americans have to support him.The boardroom/manager situation cant be good now at Anfield.

A quick glance at the rawk forums shows a lot of unhappy fans totally agreeing with Rafa and every day it just seems more talk by the americans and no actions.

If this doesnt get sorted could we honestly see Rafa leaving?he's one it before.

RE*AC*TOR

I think Rafa has a genuine connection with the fans. I think he is happy with Liverpool. But he is not going to waste his time pissing about for long. Maybe if it was another club, he would be gone already. There's only so long that kind of compassion will last.

I don't know what's happening, but Guillem Ballague and Chris Bascombe are two of Rafa friends in the media. I haven't heard what Bascombe said, though he was on holidays.

There will be an almighty uproar from the fans if Rafa leaves becasue of inaction. The protests at manu will be a dot compared to what would happen. So far the americans have been given the benefit of the doubt and taken at their word, but Liverpool fans are no fools, and this would certainly turn them.

mike65

The Valencia parallel popped into my head at about 8.30 as I waited for the sport headlines. I wonder were Gillet and Hicks appraised of Rafa walking out before...

As for Roosters thoughts on Crouch - he may be right about Rafas inability to know what to do with him but if so that speaks badly of the manager not Crouch (very badly actually!).

Mike.

marco_polo

zing wrote:

Reports coming out of Israel of us up'ing our bid for Benayoun to 4 or 4.5m. No idea how legit those reports are.

EDIT: And the Daily Mail claiming we're after Torres _AND_ Forlan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=463319&in_page_id=1779
But then the press like to make things up don't they so only believe any of it if and when you see it.

I would like to see Torres at the club. He is still quite young (23-24?) and I think that a move to a club like Liverpool would kick start his career again, as I feel he has stagnated a bit at At. Madrid in the past year or two.

As for Forlan, while I think he is a good player who didn't get much of a chance at Man U, unless the budget allows for him also (and I severely doubt it reading recent reports) I would much rather that this money was invested in talented wide men.

raven136

depressing as it seems whats the odds on us signing benayoun and possibly 2 other cheap players again this summer.

Further to what i said earlier,Graham Hunter again stated that Malouda would be a liverpool player now if the money was there.His sources are usually on the ball but you cant be too sure

The Times is saying today that Rafa cant afford the 27m transfer fee for Torres and it looks like we are no longer pursuring him.I would not be surprised to see Rafa walk away by Christmas if this sort of stuff drags on.Hopefully Hicks and Gillet sort out the money issue

Stky10

raven136 wrote:

Further to what i said earlier,Graham Hunter again stated that Malouda would be a liverpool player now if the money was there.His sources are usually on the ball but you cant be too sure

I don't know Graham Hunter, so I won't comment. But Lyon have sold Tiago to Juve, so are in more of a position to dictate their price for Malouda. I can't see it happening, and I'm not all that pushed, when I've seen him I haven't been that impressed. I'd rate him behind Mancini, Quaresma, and Simao, all of whom can play on either side.

As for Yossi, as far as I can see, even West Ham fans aren't all that mad on him. He also only started 25 games last year. Was he injured or just dropped?

Reganio 2

Torres for £17 mil + Garcia
Malouda for £17 mil
Simao for £12 mil

Chardee MacDennis

Reganio 2 wrote:

Torres for £17 mil + Garcia
Malouda for £17 mil
Simao for £12 mil

???