Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Mr Alan

The Rooster wrote:

Good stuff, especially as "some random fleet street hack" has said Tevez has told Inter he doesnt want to go to Italy, and therefore Inter have turned their attention to Torres and will offer him a more lucrative contract than Liverpool are offering.

didnt inter come out and say when he rejected them that they dont want or need anymore strikers?

missingtime

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=474756&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=&title=Torres+right+for+Reds+-+Rush

The most interesting point on this article is:

Torres is also believed to be holding out for wages of £31million over six years and although the whole package will set the Reds back a mammoth £57.9million, Rush believes he is the man to fire them to glory.

He's a pricey fecker this Torres.

raven136

graham hunter(usually has his finger on the pulse)on sky sports news this lunchtime,says torres is back in madrid today and talking to them about his payoff and also that liverpool dont mind athletico saying that the fee is 37m(euro's) as in fact it will be very much lower than that and will have clauses etc.

Interestingly he says liverpool want torres to sign a 6 year deal but that he and his agent are keener on a 4 year one.If no financial hiccups occur he will do a goodbye press conference(similair to rafa's one at valencia)on wednesday and sign for us by Friday.

Mr Alan

Think he is on £100k a week at the minute at Athletico, and the rumourmill seems to be that he has agreed £90,000 at Liverpool. Which means he'd be taking a pay cut.

Can't see Inter being able to stop this move going through (hopefully anyway), think the only thing that could mess it up is if he decides he wants to stay at Athletico.

Just wish it was all done and dusted.

event

millersangel wrote:

supposedly he was freaked because Parry and them were going out to the media saying they were waiting for Gerrard to sign his new deal and at that point he hadn't even been offered one and anytime he tried to force the issue it was always put on the long finger. he was afraid they were gonna flog him to the highest bidder at the last minute and didn't want that. soon as moores intervened the deal was done straight away.

another example of parrys incompetence

ah will ye stop?

he hadnt been offered a new contract?
boo hoo, god love him

StickyMcGinty

yea i wish it was in the bag before all this press coverage...

Garcia cost athletico 4 million so that means torres will be a £22mill dent in our budget... and we're gonna need a few more top signings

Mr Alan

event wrote:

ah will ye stop?

he hadnt been offered a new contract?
boo hoo, god love him

ya seem to miss my point. it wasn't that they hadn't offered him a new contract, just that they said in public to the press etc that they offered him one and were waiting for him to sign, when in reality, he hadn't seen any contract. In fairness, i wouldn't be too impressed by that either.

raven136

good piece in the london times noting that rafa has been doing a wenger and signing all availbale good foreign players.8 have been signed in the past 6months alone.
Its great that while we are signing players of Torres ability our manager is looking 5 or 6 years down the line.Even if its only one or two of these players that makes it,it will have been worth the investment

PHB

The whole thing about Heinze is pretty academic imo, as United would have to wanbt to sell him to Liverpool. Aside from the fact he just said yesterday he was happy at United as a champion, he can only invoke his buyout clause if he moves outside the country, so Liverpool would have to bid enough to make it worth United's while, which would be what, at least 10 million, maybe more? Can't see Rafa paying that, and therefore can't see Heinze going to Liverpool.

Drag00n79

raven136 wrote:

good piece in the london times noting that rafa has been doing a wenger and signing all availbale good foreign players.8 have been signed in the past 6months alone.

Another one:
LONDON, July 2 (Reuters) - Soccer news in brief from around the world:

Teenage CSKA Sofia midfielder Mihail Alexandrov will join English Premier League club Liverpool next week, the player said on Monday.
"I'll join Liverpool on July 9," said the 18-year-old Alexandrov after passing his medical in Liverpool.
"I've reached an agreement to sign a three-year contract with an option for a further two years."
Alexandrov, considered one of the rising stars in Bulgarian football, is the second Bulgarian to join Liverpool recently after goalkeeper Nikolay Mihaylov signed a three-year contract last Wednesday.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

The whole thing about Heinze is pretty academic imo, as United would have to wanbt to sell him to Liverpool. Aside from the fact he just said yesterday he was happy at United as a champion, he can only invoke his buyout clause if he moves outside the country, so Liverpool would have to bid enough to make it worth United's while, which would be what, at least 10 million, maybe more? Can't see Rafa paying that, and therefore can't see Heinze going to Liverpool.

Jesus PHB, you're valuations for some United players are mental. 10 million for Smith, at least 10 million for Heinze!

signing those two young lads from portugal and Englands 'superstar' midfielder must've gone to your head!

The Rooster

event wrote:

ah will ye stop?

he hadnt been offered a new contract?
boo hoo, god love him

Have to laugh.

Are you dumb or just flamin'?

The Rooster

PHB wrote:

The whole thing about Heinze is pretty academic imo, as United would have to wanbt to sell him to Liverpool. Aside from the fact he just said yesterday he was happy at United as a champion, he can only invoke his buyout clause if he moves outside the country, so Liverpool would have to bid enough to make it worth United's while, which would be what, at least 10 million, maybe more? Can't see Rafa paying that, and therefore can't see Heinze going to Liverpool.

Are you certain about the "if he moves outside the country" bit PHB?

Just they had a piece on Sky Sports News today in relation to Fat Frank possibly buying out his contract, and they mentioned about 3 years if under 28, 2 years if over 28, but I didnt notice them saying anything about that he'd have to go foreign, other than Barca would be favourites if he did leave. Of course, just coz Sky didnt mention it doesnt mean you're not right...

mike65

el Nino has landed!

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6752388,00.html

Mike.

zing

The Rooster wrote:

Are you certain about the "if he moves outside the country" bit PHB?

Pretty sure I've seen mention of that before - that the player would have to sign for a club in a different country/under a different football association. Could be thinking of a different scenario though.

zAbbo

Didn't know we were in for Torres, bit of a surprise purchase

zing

mike65 wrote:

el Nino has landed!

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6752388,00.html

Mike.

Wrong airport Nando - ya were meant to go to Speck

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote:

el Nino has landed!

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6752388,00.html

Mike.

Beautifully put, brought a smile to my face when i arrived home from work i must say! Good work Mike.

mike65

Little Sammy Lee has made Dudek an offer of a 3 year deal, I wonder if Bolton can be persuaded to take all Liverpools cast-offs in exchange for say
Anelka?

Mike.

zAbbo

Wasn't Dudek released ?

Lex Luthor

Call_me_al wrote:

but he really made a difference in europe when needed.

still got to the final last year without him....hopefully the days of relying on him in europe are now over

zing

zabbo wrote:

Wasn't Dudek released ?

What was he in for ?

Stky10

zing wrote:

What was he in for ?

Impersonating a goalkeeper

zing

This one is well and truely in the bag according to the Spanish press
http://www.as.com/articulo/Futbol/Torres/sera/Liverpool/martes/dasftb/20070702dasdasftb_19/Tes/
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/futbol/1a_division/atletico/es/desarrollo/1011928.html
should complete medical tomorrow.

Just want official confirmation now and I'll be happy. Last thing we need is another Simao saga

And the flip side is Garcia to be unveiled at Atletico tomorrow - best of luck to him

darkskol

Will miss the idea of having Garcia for those big european games.
I see Fowler cant seem to get a new club, I would welcome him back even for a coaching position but I reckon he wants to continue playing. Hope it works out for him. Didn't we sign some 16 year old striker from Barca today/yesterday? Anyone any info on him?

~Rebel~

darkskol wrote:

Didn't we sign some 16 year old striker from Barca today/yesterday? Anyone any info on him?

Theres a few videos back on 437 near the top.

Sounds a great acuisition, have to feel sorry for barca though, losing some of their young gems because of the difference in rules in England and Spain. Merida, Fabregas, Pique and now this kid.

PiE

That Fowler interview on Sky Sports earlier today (...well, yesterday) was heartbreaking.

woodyg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

Seems that it will be done an dusted today which is great news.
i take it he is flying in to complete his move then fly back out to finish the hols.
Its alot of money in any bodies book but i look forward to see him up top with Kuyt/Crouch/Voronin. Bellamy will be defo sold now as 4 front players is enough to try keep happy. The money from his sale can then go to buying a winger.


I'm suprised none of the newly promoted teams havent signed fowler up he would be a great signing still think he would get a team 10 league goals in a season which might keep a team up.

zing

woodyg wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

Interesting that both that article & this:
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=gabriel-heinze-set-for-historic-move-to-anfield%26method=full%26objectid=19396651%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
suggest a move for Heinze is a real option and that the player is up for the move. Will still believe it when I see it..

That article from the Echo also links Paletta with a move to Levante in which case I think we can expect to see a move for a central defender over the summer.

The Rooster

PHB wrote:

The whole thing about Heinze is pretty academic imo, as United would have to wanbt to sell him to Liverpool. Aside from the fact he just said yesterday he was happy at United as a champion, he can only invoke his buyout clause if he moves outside the country, so Liverpool would have to bid enough to make it worth United's while, which would be what, at least 10 million, maybe more? Can't see Rafa paying that, and therefore can't see Heinze going to Liverpool.

Here's a fairly comprehensive article on the FIFA buy-out rules. No mention of having to go foreign. The player buys out his contract and is a free agent. Then he can go wherever he likes.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20070213/ai_n17221638

Stky10

Lee Peltier sold to Hull. The 6-3 by Arsenal killed off whatever small hope he had of being kept on

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=46265

Thanx 4 The Fish

PHB wrote:

The whole thing about Heinze is pretty academic imo, as United would have to wanbt to sell him to Liverpool. Aside from the fact he just said yesterday he was happy at United as a champion, he can only invoke his buyout clause if he moves outside the country, so Liverpool would have to bid enough to make it worth United's while, which would be what, at least 10 million, maybe more? Can't see Rafa paying that, and therefore can't see Heinze going to Liverpool.

How is it academic ? United do not have to want to sell him, infact nothing of the sort has to occur. Also where have you heard that he has to move outside the country ? A couple of years wages, Liverpool could probably have him sitting on the bench for just over a couple of mill. Of course he would not want to move to be on the bench but I doubt rafa will guarantee him a start every game.

Mitch Connor

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

How is it academic ? United do not have to want to sell him, infact nothing of the sort has to occur. Also where have you heard that he has to move outside the country ? A couple of years wages, Liverpool could probably have him sitting on the bench for just over a couple of mill. Of course he would not want to move to be on the bench but I doubt rafa will guarantee him a start every game.

not a couple of million - 6million, it would cost 6million to buy out his contract; and i think that the player has to be moving to a different league for the buyout to be allowed (i think that was one of the issues with the fella that moved from hearts to wigan)

Also, i do not believe Heinze would buy his contract out unless forced in to the situation, and given that it has been reported we have accepted a bid from Real Madrid for him, we aren't stopping him from leaving should he want to.

zing

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=474925&CPID=8&title=Atletico+confirm+Garcia+deal&lid=&channel=Premiership&f=rss&clid=14

Mitch Connor

The Rooster wrote:

Here's a fairly comprehensive article on the FIFA buy-out rules. No mention of having to go foreign. The player buys out his contract and is a free agent. Then he can go wherever he likes.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20070213/ai_n17221638

From that article:

He must give his club formal notice within 15 days of the last match of his club's season (domestic or European, whichever comes later) in order to leave that summer.

As far as i know, Heinze gave no formal notification that he wanted to buy his contract out (even recently saying he wants to stay) so surely he can not buy his contract out this summer.

Kanney

LUIS GARCIA HES DRINKS SANGRIA
HE CAME FROM BARCA AND BROUGHT US GOALS
HES FIVE FOOT SEVEN HES FOOTBALL HEAVEN
WHY DID RAFA GIVE OUR LUIS AWAY?

-Tears, im absolutely heartbroken as my favourite player is gone.

Tusky

Fernando Torres set to sign today

Jul 3 2007 by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

FERNANDO TORRES was due on Merseyside today to complete his £26.5m signing for Liverpool.

But Peter Crouch will not be the man to make way for the Spaniard in Rafa Benitez’s squad.

The England striker’s Anfield future was cast in doubt at the weekend when it was reported that he was the only Liverpool player with two years remaining on his contract who has NOT been invited to open talks about a new deal.

But Reds chief executive Rick Parry rubbished the report.

“It is not true that he is the only player not to have been approached about a new deal and he is very much part of Rafa Benitez’s future plans,” he said.

But with Torres now joining Crouch, Dirk Kuyt, Andriy Voronin and Craig Bellamy on Liverpool’s striking roster, one forward is likely to make way – with Bellamy the favourite.

Torres was due to have a medical today and could be unveiled as Liverpool’s record signing tomorrow.

But the likelihood of Gabriel Heinze joining him at Anfield receded as Manchester United reacted with horror at the prospect of their Argentinean defender joining their fiercest rivals.

There is no get-out clause in Heinze’s contract, and United have made it clear they will make it difficult for the player to leave.

Heinze is currently on Copa America duty in Venezuela – he played alongside Javier Mascherano in Argentina’s 4-2 defeat of Colombia last night – and no decision is expected on his future until Argentina’s tournament has ended.

But while Heinze has told Anfield officials he would relish the chance to become the first player since Phil Chisnall in 1964 to move directly from United to Liverpool, United will resist all efforts to prise him away.

After Patrice Evra took Heinze’s place at Old Trafford last season and the Argentinean was seeking a much improved contract offer, United let it be known they would be open to offers for the player.

The player has either convinced Alex Ferguson of his form and fitness, or United are mortified at Liverpool snatching one of their defensive stars.

---

Liverpool get their man - and Fernando Torres could prove to be pure Spanish gold for Rafa

The race for the Atletico Madrid striker is all but over and the £26 million Anfield new boy's first target in England will be to overhaul Manchester United, Chelsed and Arsenal for that elusive Premiership title.

Within a matter of hours, the long-running Fernando Torres transfer saga will end. There is the formality of a medical to overcome but then the 23-year-old striker is expected to sign a six-year deal which will see Liverpool capture their record signing for approximately £26.5m. Is it money well spent?

For a young man, the Spaniard is vastly experienced, having latched up almost 250 appearancesand almost a century of goals at his hometown club Atletico Madrid. His move is said to be the first of many that Rafa has lined up. His shopping list also includes the potential signing of Manchester United's Gabriel Heinze, a move that is sure to make the Argentinian defender the darling of visits back to Old Trafford!

Atletico fans can at least console themselves in the knowledge that the man lines up as Torres's replacement, Diego Forlan, scored 54 goals in 106 starts for Villareal - a good return when you consider his lean stint at Old Trafford.

Liverpool fans will be hoping the cash injection from their new American owners will aid them in their bid to return to the very top. Their recent moves in the transfer market are sure to make their fellow top four members sit up and take notice. When you consider that their main rivals are experiencing a far less enjoyable summer (Chelsea seemingly losing the war to keep Frank Lampard happy, Arsenal losing prized asset Thierry Henry), it would be foolish to write off Liverpool as potential title winners - even if they did finish a country mile behind Sir Alex and Joe's men last time around.

Manchester United have at least picked up some talent post-season but nothing quite as significant as Torres. Sir Alex will be aware that his side still need some tinkering if they are to retain their well-deserved title next season.

With Torres aboard, Liverpool may now have extra influence to attract more top-quality world class talent to the club. Samuel Eto'o is a player on most top teams' wish list, and whoever secures his services should he leave Barcelona, will be an outfit to watch out for. I think we can rule Liverpool out of that race now that they have their man.

Benitez will do well to add some more bite to his defence before the big kick-off in August but by finally snaring Fernando the fabulous, they are sending a clear warning to the rest of English football's thoroughbreds that they are making up ground fast in the race for the Premiership.

http://www.sportingo.com/football/liverpool_get_their_man_fernando/1001,3881

zAbbo

The most expensive Spanish player ever, topping Mendieta's €40m transfer a few years back (to Lazio I think)

We're buying part talent-part finished product.

I'm excited that one of the hottest prospects in world football will be spending his best years at Liverpool.

The Rooster

Tauren wrote:

From that article:

He must give his club formal notice within 15 days of the last match of his club's season (domestic or European, whichever comes later) in order to leave that summer.

As far as i know, Heinze gave no formal notification that he wanted to buy his contract out (even recently saying he wants to stay) so surely he can not buy his contract out this summer.

Yes, if you want to leave in the summer you have to give the notice 15 days after the last game (or if you dont give the correct notice, compensation increases). However I dont think the buyouts are restricted to the summer. So in theory Heinze could give the notice after the first league game of the upcoming season.

~Rebel~

it is understood the Merseysiders have been given enough encouragement from Heinze's camp to pursue their interest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

Obviously there's something to it really, as if there wasn't some interest back from Heinze, the whole thing would have been dropped immediately rather then wasting time.

The buyout is one option, but i wouldnt be as shocked as some by a straight sale, its not like we're trying to get Rooney, we're getting someone who can provide good backup or maybe just push himself in above aurelio and riise, he's not gonna change the world, this on top of the fact he's missed nearly 2 years of football through injury.

Meh i dont really mind either way, if we get him grand once we're not ripped off, if not, dont really mind either not sure we need an LB to begin with, it might be money better spent on a CB incase anything long term happens to Carra or Agger. The only LB worth pushing for IMO would be Wayne Bridge, but i couldnt see that happening either.

The Rooster

Heinze would also cover the centre back position. And I'm sure if he did sign Benitez would occassionally play the wing back formation with 3 centre backs. Carra on the right, Heinze on the left, with Agger in the middle.

Mitch Connor

if your lot did sign heinze, i'd love you to play him at CB, he is freaking shocking there. does ok as part of a back 3, but no where near good enough to be one of two.

That said, i hope he doesn't go to liverpool, cause he is a bit of a legend at Old Traffrd, it would be a bit of a kick in th teeth.

looder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrryWFt7SII

check this out.. pure class..

Tusky

zabbo wrote:

The most expensive Spanish player ever, topping Mendieta's €40m transfer a few years back (to Lazio I think)

We're buying part talent-part finished product.

I'm excited that one of the hottest prospects in world football will be spending his best years at Liverpool.

Ive never been so excited about a signing to be honest. I know he hasnt been scoring bucket loads but 82 in around 220 is good enough for me when you take into account he is playing for a mediocre team, he played on the left wing for all but 4 games last season and still managed 14 goals and 6 assists & the fact that he is only 23. Also when you consider he scored 10 goals in 14 games for Spain during the world cup...Surely playing in a team surrounded by the likes of Kuyt, Crouch, Kewell, Gerrard, Alonso & Mascherano will increase his goals tally. He has bags of talent and I think he has all the attributes to be a massive success at Liverpool. I also love that fact that he seems to be a selfless team player.

yom 1

Tusky wrote:

Ive never been so excited about a signing to be honest

I wasn't really excited about the possibility of Torres signing for us when the rumour first aired. I would have preferred Eto'o or Villa. But it is starting to excite me now.

I think the main reason why is because it shows that this club finally has financial clout behind it. It shows that we will no longer be waiting for others to sort their players out before we can enter the race for the left-overs.

He has a lot of potential but its goin to be tough to adapt to the premiership for him. He'll need to hit the ground running in Aug and get his first goal under his belt quickly. If he does so he could very will help pool end the wait.

This all depends on him actually officially signing. Not hopin for much am I:p

Stky10

Tusky wrote:

Ive never been so excited about a signing to be honest. I know he hasnt been scoring bucket loads but 82 in around 220 is good enough for me when you take into account he is playing for a mediocre team, he played on the left wing for all but 4 games last season and still managed 14 goals and 6 assists & the fact that he is only 23. Also when you consider he scored 10 goals in 14 games for Spain during the world cup...Surely playing in a team surrounded by the likes of Kuyt, Crouch, Kewell, Gerrard, Alonso & Mascherano will increase his goals tally. He has bags of talent and I think he has all the attributes to be a massive success at Liverpool. I also love that fact that he seems to be a selfless team player.

I've seen too many false dawns before this to believe one player is going to make a significant difference. Too many Cisse's, Crouch's, Heskey's, Morientes's, etc etc. It won't make a scrap of difference unless they address the other holes in the team such as both wide midfield spots, and at least one replacement central defender, and concede that Kuyts failings don't cover his admirable work rate and get a replacement.

They've got the backbone of a great team, but unless Rafa is brave enough to move outside his comfort zone of a team purely of workhorses, then I can't see us winning too much.

RE*AC*TOR

Sad to see Luis go. At time hugely frustrating, at times scintillating. I hope he does well at Athletico, and continues to do well for Spain. I'll always have a soft spot for him.

~Rebel~

Stky10 wrote:

Too many Cisse's, Crouch's, Heskey's, Morientes's, etc etc. It won't make a scrap of difference unless they address the other holes in the team such as both wide midfield spots, and at least one replacement central defender, and concede that Kuyts failings don't cover his admirable work rate and get a replacement.

Wow i couldnt agree less with your opinions of Crouch and Kuyt. To my mind Crouch has surpassed expectations and a pricetag that at first looked expensive now looks like a bargain. Also has one of the best strike rates in england this year on goals per minutes player.

And Kuyt. What obvious failings?! Have we been looking at a different player?! The only somewhat obvious failing is pace, and even at that he's not the slowest by any means either. The player who i watched nigh on every minute of this season (thank you Rojadirecta) isnt just a workhorse. He's the one who never gives up and goes missing. He's the one whos still linking things up while the viewer is left wondering if Bellamy is actually on the pitch today. His contribution is best seen when Bellamy was on form though, Kuyt set up a lot of chances for him with clever passes and very obviously quality awareness. Kuyt also has a habit of managing to find a layoff for Gerrard's runs regardless of the angle or space. He's also fantastic at keeping moves going. When he receives it in tight areas he nearly always finds a man. This all as well as being a quality finisher when he doesnt have to go almost to the halfway line to pick up the ball. Scores in a lot of big games too. He works far harder coming back then he should need to, but thats not his fault. With better service from the flanks and a proper striker next to him i would be amazed if he's not even better next season. His workrate could have far more devestating effect if the rest of the team can give him the ball where it counts.

In case anyone forgets his goals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaOdU4bx3UM many and varied.

zAbbo

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Sad to see Luis go. At time hugely frustrating, at times scintillating. I hope he does well at Athletico, and continues to do well for Spain. I'll always have a soft spot for him.

Pic of Garcia in AM kit. - http://www.marca.com/ficheros/marca/imagenes/luisgarcia030707_ES.jpg

Stky10

~Rebel~ wrote:

And Kuyt. What obvious failings?! Have we been looking at a different player?! The only somewhat obvious failing is pace, and even at that he's not the slowest by any means either. The player who i watched nigh on every minute of this season (thank you Rojadirecta) isnt just a workhorse. He's the one who never gives up and goes missing. He's the one whos still linking things up while the viewer is left wondering if Bellamy is actually on the pitch today. His contribution is best seen when Bellamy was on form though, Kuyt set up a lot of chances for him with clever passes and very obviously quality awareness. Kuyt also has a habit of managing to find a layoff for Gerrard's runs regardless of the angle or space. He's also fantastic at keeping moves going. When he receives it in tight areas he nearly always finds a man. This all as well as being a quality finisher when he doesnt have to go almost to the halfway line to pick up the ball. Scores in a lot of big games too. He works far harder coming back then he should need to, but thats not his fault. With better service from the flanks and a proper striker next to him i would be amazed if he's not even better next season. His workrate could have far more devestating effect if the rest of the team can give him the ball where it counts.

I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As I said I admire his effort and constant running and chasing down lost causes. I just don't think there is enough end product out of it though.

Compare him to Bergkamp though as a player in the same position. Bergkamp wouldn't get through near as much work as Kuyt, but when he got on the ball he was pure quality. A lot of the time as far as I can see with Kuyt, by the time he gets the ball, he's run himself into the ground so much he can do little with it.

And as for scoring in big games, well against the top 5 teams in the UK, ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, including the FA Cup game to Arsenal and the two champions league games to Chelsea, gives 13 matches, where he got 3 goals. And in Europe, yeah he scored in the final in the last minute, but he didn't score in the semi-final, or the quarter final against PSV, or the round before that against Barcelona.

Compare that to the quality of a Tevez, Rooney or similar and what they could achieve in the same position. For me, thats the standard thats needed in such an important position.