Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Mr Alan

jank wrote:

Actually I partially agree with Zener.

No one is doubting his talents but his strike rate isnt the best, will it be any better at liverpool?
Well if it is then there would be one hand on the league trophy for ye, im sure of that.

Torres would be a great addition to any team including Arsenal and United, he is quite expensive though. Eto would have cost about the same and he is a far better player and exactly what liverpool need.

Only time will tell who is right.

If he scores more then 12 league goals he is doing very well IMO.

Good luck to him anyway.

I think the point is, even though he is a record club fee, when compared to wat other clubs are paying for top players, at 20 million he is great value.

As for same price for Eto'o?! I'd imagine Eto'o would be at least twice that price, plus he is not for sale.

Torres is cheaper than Anderson and only slightly more expensive than Bent.

Great buy IMO.

zing

millersangel wrote:

Torres is cheaper than Anderson and only slightly more expensive than Bent.

Those deals for Bent, Anderson, etc.. were straight cash deals so if you want to do a comparison then do a like for like and that means the Garcia deal should be treated separately imo. Torres cost us what Torres cost us - not Torres cost us what Torres cost minus what we got for Garcia. Even if we're getting him for 20m that's still 20m - not 16m because Garcia is going the other way -- it's 20m no matter what way you look at it because we are loosing a player worth 4m. Or whatever the figures are.

Great buy IMO.

Certainly agree with that. Now just follow it up with a winger or two along the lines of Mancini / Simao and maybe a CB / LB.

Chardee MacDennis

anderson was 17m and Bent was 16.5. English reports are putting torres at 26.5m and Spanish at 20m.

so most likely it is 20m upfront minus 4m for Garcia and 6.5m depending on Goals, apps, trophies and team postion over the next few years.

Lex Luthor

Man U paid 28m for Rio and he scores OG's

Jazzy

all this talk of a left back, whats wrong with riise ?

Thanx 4 The Fish

And Aurelio, Arbeloa can play there too.

Stky10

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

And Aurelio, Arbeloa can play there too.

Or Insua. Or Threlfall.

We need at least one new CB though. Maybe two. Hyppia great servant that he has been is past it, Paletta might be on the way out, and Hobbs is probably still a bit green.

zing

So other clubs offered more to both Atletico & to Torres himself apparently. And confirmation that he has taken a pay cut (God love him - I'm sure he'll miss that 10k or so per week)
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/07/04/fernando-torres-passion-was-key---rafa-100252-19402939/

Mr Alan

Wouldn't be the fondest of Riise to be honest, think Aurelio really looked the part before he got injured though. Hope he makes that position his own this year. Wouldn't want another left back to come in unless it was a major improvement on wat we already have, and to be honest, no one springs to mind!

And in relation to the Torres thing - that was my point, if he is 20 million outright, as is being reported in Spain and by all the people "in the know" over there. We are getting him for only slightly more than players that are not near his calibre, Bent, Hargreaves etc and likewise with players who aren't really proven at any serious level, Nani/Anderson.

Again, to me that is great business. Even if it is closer to 25 million.

Kanney

Sweet, Torres press conference on SSN at 3 today, can't wait to go into town and get Torres 9 on my back.

On other news, Sunday People said something about Mascherano still on a loan deal, is this true? Could he leave?

Zapp Brannigan

Is the Press conference gonna be streamed anywhere online? Dont have SSN (and also I'm a Mac user so if anyone could help me find a stream that would work on a Mac)

The Rooster

Kanney wrote:

On other news, Sunday People said something about Mascherano still on a loan deal, is this true? Could he leave?

We have Mascherano on loan for next season. After that he certainly could leave, which is why we've given Sissoko a new contract (and turned down a rumoured €10m offer for him from Juve)

Mr Alan

Far as i'm aware we have first refusal on Mascherano at around 16 million or something . . . . .

Vokes

So the Heinze thing. Maybe we're not buying a winger or don't have the cash to do so So, cheaper maybe to buy another an established LB and turn Riise into a full-time winger.

Not sure id like that, as I think the Finnan, Carra, Agger (Hyypia), Riise combination is almost perfect together - would hate to see it broken up.

The Rooster

SofaKing wrote:

So the Heinze thing. Maybe we're not buying a winger or don't have the cash to do so So, cheaper maybe to buy another an established LB and turn Riise into a full-time winger.

Not sure id like that, as I think the Finnan, Carra, Agger (Hyypia), Riise combination is almost perfect together - would hate to see it broken up.

Personally I think Riise is the big weak link in that combination. Not near as good a defender as Finnan, Carra or Agger.

Pepe LeFrits

zabbo wrote:

Eto'o has quite the ego, and is prone to disappearing for entire games, he's also older, and buggers off to the African Nations every January, and it would be difficult to prise him away from Barca (with Henry)

Eto'o is humble in comparison to Torres!

Anyway, this is a big gamble for Benitez. Should Liverpool fail to mount a serious title challenge this coming season he won't be able to point to a lack of backing in the transfer market this time next year. Torres certainly has plenty of raw talent and potential. He is tall, strong, quick, has great movement and skill. If he can work on his finishing and improve his attitude, he could be a massive player. Whether that'll happen though remains to be seen. As a Gooner I've first hand experience of an extremely highly rated young Spaniard coming over and not realising his potential. Torres is quite different to Reyes though - Reyes lacked confidence; Torres may have too much.

Like Reyes, Torres' value and reputation peaked three years ago and he has gone stale since then. 21 goals in 40 games for a 20 year old at a non-top-tier side was very impressive, but since then his return has waned and particularly in the last 2 years he's gone off the boil, netting only 28 times in 80 games - and I believe he was Atletico's penalty taker. He has a bit of a reputation as being somewhat lazy, unprofessional and a playboy with a big ego, so it'll be important for Liverpool to make sure he's got the right attitude or he could fade away by his mid twenties.

Nalz

Lex Luthor wrote:

Man U paid 28m for Rio and he scores OG's

:rolleyes:

Tusky

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Eto'o is humble in comparison to Torres!

Anyway, this is a big gamble for Benitez. Should Liverpool fail to mount a serious title challenge this coming season he won't be able to point to a lack of backing in the transfer market this time next year. Torres certainly has plenty of raw talent and potential. He is tall, strong, quick, has great movement and skill. If he can work on his finishing and improve his attitude, he could be a massive player. Whether that'll happen though remains to be seen. As a Gooner I've first hand experience of an extremely highly rated young Spaniard fact that he has stayed with an under performing A.Madrid side for years, turning down offers from Man Utd, Inter and other clubs beccoming over and not realising his potential. Torres is quite different to Reyes though - Reyes lacked confidence; Torres may have too much.

Like Reyes, Torres' value and reputation peaked three years ago and he has gone stale since then. 21 goals in 40 games for a 20 year old at a non-top-tier side was very impressive, but since then his return has waned and particularly in the last 2 years he's gone off the boil, netting only 28 times in 80 games - and I believe he was Atletico's penalty taker. He has a bit of a reputation as being somewhat lazy, unprofessional and a playboy with a big ego, so it'll be important for Liverpool to make sure he's got the right attitude or he could fade away by his mid twenties.

I have heard and read a lot about Torres and I have to say, what you have just said conflicts with EVERYTHING I know about him. I have read he is a selfless team player who always gives 100%. He is qutie shy and humble, he has been with his girlfriend since he was a teen and is set to be married to her. He has also taken a drop in pay to play for Liverpool and turned down several larger offers from other clubs. Over the year he has turned down plenty of offers from larger clubs because he wanted to stay with A.Madrid. This shows alot of integrity.

Every time I have seen or read an interview with him he comes across as very grounded, ambitious, mature and actually quite intelligent. So basically I think you are talking out of your arse in regards to his attitude.

Chardee MacDennis

i was under the same impression as Tusky.

and also regards Tevez he does have an ego but not an attitude problem. all good players should have some sort of an ego, look at C. Ronaldo

Zapp Brannigan

Tusky wrote:

I have heard and read a lot about Torres and I have to say, what you have just said conflicts with EVERYTHING I know about him. I have read he is a selfless team player who always gives 100%. He is qutie shy and humble, he has been with his girlfriend since he was a teen and is set to be married to her. He has also taken a drop in pay to play for Liverpool and turned down several larger offers from other clubs. Over the year he has turned down plenty of offers from larger clubs because he wanted to stay with A.Madrid. This shows alot of integrity.

Every time I have seen or read an interview with him he comes across as very grounded, ambitious, mature and actually quite intelligent. So basically I think you are talking out of your arse in regards to his attitude.

Yup everything I've heard about him mirrors what Tusky has said. Don't know where you heard all the other stuff Pepe?

Pepe LeFrits

Tusky wrote:

I have heard and read a lot about Torres and I have to say, what you have just said conflicts with EVERYTHING I know about him. I have read he is a selfless team player who always gives 100%.

Yeah, on the pitch he works hard and has good movement, constantly moving and making runs. I didn't say he doesn't do that.

He is qutie shy and humble, he has been with his girlfriend since he was a teen and is set to be married to her. He has also taken a drop in pay to play for Liverpool and turned down several larger offers from other clubs. Over the year he has turned down plenty of offers from larger clubs because he wanted to stay with A.Madrid. This shows alot of integrity.

From what I understand he USED to be like that, but his opinion of himself has grown over the years after being the big cheese at Atletico. That he has taken a pay-cut and moved in the search for silverware is good and may show that he is no longer content with what he has. Hopefully he can become the player he has shown the promise of becoming.

Every time I have seen or read an interview with him he comes across as very grounded, ambitious, mature and actually quite intelligent. So basically I think you are talking out of your arse in regards to his attitude.

One can be all of the above and still be arrogant and in their comfort zone.

mike65

If he has attitude, Rafa will simply lean in his direction and draw a finger across his throat (or has he shaved the goatee already?)

Mike.

ZENER

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Worst effort at trolling in a long time and shows up your knowledge too, that is the reason I find it hard to take you seriously.

Sorry for having an opinion there Fishy. It's sometimes difficult to swallow an-others opinion but there are better ways of replying than simply calling someone a troll.

Rafa is a long time admirer of Torres and there is no way that these Gilet and Hicks guys are gonna splash the cash for a player that the manager does not want, let alone some Spanish kid that they have probably never heard of.

As I said I hope he works out but to say it's just silly to by a player to appease the fans is naive just look at Chelsea for the last 2 years. Also there is no jealousy on my part, if Sir Alex didn't rate him enough to buy him then I'll take his more respected view on the matter.

Also it's plain to see why 'Pool fans were voted the worst in Europe. It's incredible the hate and venom that my opinion generated. For those who mentioned the CL with respect to ManU fans, have a look at my post after Liverpool won after the penalty shootout, where is the hate in that post ? The exact opposite in fact.

ZEN

Waster

Torres deal was £20m, not £26m.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/tm_headline=fernando-torres-passion-was-key---rafa%26method=full%26objectid=19402939%26siteid=100252-name_page.html
Ballague and Hunter have both said £20m too.

zing

ZENER wrote:

Also it's plain to see why 'Pool fans were voted the worst in Europe.

Yeah - voted the worst in Europe by who exactly ?

The Muppet

It's still ok to have an opinion here ???


I agree with most of what Zener had to say about Torres. Signing one player is not enough to change the style of football Liverpool play and IMO r curnt style will not suit Torres. Maybe there will be more signings ibut if not I dont see Liverpool closing the gulf that was there between them and Chelsea and United last season.


Sorry if some of ye find that hard to swallow ( I,m not really) but it's my opinion. We'll know in the months ahead wheter its right or just my bias shining through.

Chardee MacDennis

seems to back up Tusky's point here:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/07/04/elves--tattoos-and-quiet-nights-in---the-world-of-liverpool-s-record-signing-100252-19403248/

Zapp Brannigan

dont think it was the fact he thought Torres wouldn't suit LFC. Just that he thought that Rafa had no say in the matter. Of course he did!

Chardee MacDennis

The Muppet wrote:

It's still ok to have an opinion here ???


I agree with most of what Zener had to say about Torres. Signing one player is not enough to change the style of football Liverpool play and IMO r curnt style will not suit Torres. Maybe there will be more signings ibut if not I dont see Liverpool closing the gulf that was there between them and Chelsea and United last season.


Sorry if some of ye find that hard to swallow ( I,m not really) but it's my opinion. We'll know in the months ahead wheter its right or just my bias shining through.

well united wouldnt have won the league last year with out Ronaldo, so i think one player can make the difference between winning and not winning and i think Torres will make that difference.

Cyrus

again, as i asked a few pages back why is there so many united fans in here giving there 2c worth.

really we dont care, enjoy the signings of hargreaves et al in your own thread and let liverpool fans enjoy our first real big money signing in years

time will tell if he is the answer, no one knows now.

as an aside tho, it is nice for united to be jealous of a player we have signed for a change. also i would love the see heinze at the pool

ZENER

zing wrote:

Yeah - voted the worst in Europe by who exactly ?

Oh only some nobody organisation called UEFA.

Link.

ZEN

RE*AC*TOR

Zener was talking nonsense. Suggesting that Torres was foisted upon Rafa like Abramovich foisted Schevchenko on Maureen.

As for the worst fans in Europe jibe, that's just silly.

You all need to lighten up.

~Rebel~

ZENER wrote:

As I said I hope he works out but to say it's just silly to by a player to appease the fans is naive just look at Chelsea for the last 2 years. Also there is no jealousy on my part, if Sir Alex didn't rate him enough to buy him then I'll take his more respected view on the matter.

Also it's plain to see why 'Pool fans were voted the worst in Europe. It's incredible the hate and venom that my opinion generated. For those who mentioned the CL with respect to ManU fans, have a look at my post after Liverpool won after the penalty shootout, where is the hate in that post ? The exact opposite in fact.

ZEN

The buying a big player to appease the fans i think is a fair enough shout, obviously most managers would jump at the chance to get a big player, what I and most others disagreed with was that when choosing this one big player, the Americans would decide to pick a player that the manager didn't want, thus completely alienating him. On top of that the americans quite clearly know very little about soccer, again showing this idea to be particularly dodgey. People bashing your football knowledge was a bit of a stretch alright, as you're a Man U fan so theres no real reason you should be expected to know Torres has been a target for years.


On the "hate and venom" thats a bit of an exageration dont you think? Major disagreement yes, as it was a very nonsensical idea (new owners spend loads of the budget on players the manager doesnt want), but hate and venom?

I and plenty of other pool fans congratulated the Man U boardsies for a great League title, won in style and finese. I can imagine a similar reaction and level of incredulity to what you received if i went over and said i think Nani and Anderson were bought entirely by the Glazers and that Fergusen didnt want them at all but was being forced to take them

RE*AC*TOR

ZENER wrote:

Oh only some nobody organisation called UEFA.

Link.

ZEN

1. That's a statement, not a vote. I don't think there was any voting involved? So who voted?

2. The statement was retracted.

The Muppet

Call_me_al wrote:

well united wouldnt have won the league last year with out Ronaldo, so i think one player can make the difference between winning and not winning and i think Torres will make that difference.

If that's your opinion thats fine, I dont agree with it though. . Winning the league is a team effort and one player does not make a team. Signing Torres is a move in the right direction but I doubt his signing alone will see Liverpool surpass Chelsea or United.

, as i asked a few pages back why is there so many united fans in here giving there 2c worth.

I assume it's because this is a general soccer forum not a dedicated forum for any particular team .

~Rebel~

The Muppet wrote:

It's still ok to have an opinion here ???


I agree with most of what Zener had to say about Torres. Signing one player is not enough to change the style of football Liverpool play and IMO r curnt style will not suit Torres. Maybe there will be more signings ibut if not I dont see Liverpool closing the gulf that was there between them and Chelsea and United last season.


Sorry if some of ye find that hard to swallow ( I,m not really) but it's my opinion. We'll know in the months ahead wheter its right or just my bias shining through.

Noone had any problem with any opinions like that, as their realistic, thought out and quite possibly true, people only had a prob with the "Rafa didnt want Torres thing".

I fully agree with what you said above, I dont think Torres himself will make that huge a difference, he's just the first step to improving the team all round , be it all this year or broken over a few years. To close the gap this year (not win-bit too soon for that, just get closer) we'll still need a top quality winger who can add excellent crossing as well short passing in tight areas and goalscoring to the team.

Thanx 4 The Fish

You can have whatever opinion you want tinky, and I have a right to come on here and show it up for the unadulterated rubbish that it sometimes is.

The Muppet wrote:

It's still ok to have an opinion here ???


I agree with most of what Zener had to say about Torres. Signing one player is not enough to change the style of football Liverpool play and IMO r curnt style will not suit Torres. Maybe there will be more signings ibut if not I dont see Liverpool closing the gulf that was there between them and Chelsea and United last season.


Sorry if some of ye find that hard to swallow ( I,m not really) but it's my opinion. We'll know in the months ahead wheter its right or just my bias shining through.

And again for those that couldn't be bothered to read what was written, I took no issue with whether or not he would be performant this season. It was with the Rafa had no input comment, and the owners splashing the cash only to appease fans, with no input form Rafa rubbish. These are the same owners who had a formal review of Rafa's spending since he arrived, who ended up buying the player that Rafa has been an admirer or for years. Sound like trolling to you ?

The same poster then goes on to say that Liverpool were voted the worst fans in Europe (another load of rubbish which was neither a vote, nor upheld by anybody and retracted by the person who said it) despite glowing praise from the head of Uefa and many others for their fans. Does that sound like the actions of a troll ?

Does to me.

Mr Alan

ZENER wrote:

As I said I hope he works out but to say it's just silly to by a player to appease the fans is naive just look at Chelsea for the last 2 years. Also there is no jealousy on my part, if Sir Alex didn't rate him enough to buy him then I'll take his more respected view on the matter.


ZEN

Was Rooney signed just to appese fans? or Hargreaves? Or the two new young lads? When great players sign, fans are happy (Rooney being the only great player among those 4). And managers are too obviously because their team has improved!

You have no reason to think he was just signed because the americans wanted a big name, to appease the fans and that Rafa had no say in the matter. He was signed because rafa wanted him and has done for quite some time. You comment was deemed a troll because, you seemed to just make up reasons for his signing.

As for "Sir Alex" not wanting him? Where did you hear that? United did want him and he turned them down last summer. According to Torres. Unless "Sir Alex" told you differently?!

As for bringing up the crap about Liverpool fans being the worst in Europe? Just proves you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

The Muppet

~Rebel~ wrote:

Noone had any problem with any opinions like that, as their realistic, thought out and quite possibly true, people only had a prob with the "Rafa didnt want Torres thing".

I fully agree with what you said above, I dont think Torres himself will make that huge a difference, he's just the first step to improving the team all round , be it all this year or broken over a few years. To close the gap this year (not win-bit too soon for that, just get closer) we'll still need a top quality winger who can both add excellent crossing as well short passing in tight areas and goalscoring to the team.

Personally I dont think Rafa was forced into the signing either but If its Zeners opinion he should have been allowed to express it without being accused of Trolling etc etc.

It's much easier to dismiss someones opinion and accuse them of Trolling rather than offer a counter argument but it doesn't add anything to the discusssion.

Zapp Brannigan

Maybe the reason we're the worst fans in Europe is cos we're always around till late in the competition? Unlike some other teams...:p (I keeed, I keeed)

Can we end this fussin' and a feuding. LFC have finally splashed the cash on a real striker. Let's all rejoice and wait for the Press conference in 20 minutes!

Chardee MacDennis

The Muppet wrote:

If that's your opinion thats fine, I dont agree with it though. . Winning the league is a team effort and one player does not make a team. Signing Torres is a move in the right direction but I doubt his signing alone will see Liverpool surpass Chelsea or United.

well mathematically take away the 17 goals and 14 assists and see where united would have ended up. anyway Torres will take time to settle and the main point i was making is that he will provide the difference in those games that we kept drawing and losing only because we didnt have that edge. he will bring that and hopefully that will put us right among chelski and mufc.

Jesus Wept

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

Maybe the reason we're the worst fans in Europe is cos we're always around till late in the competition? Unlike some other teams...:p (I keeed, I keeed)

Can we end this fussin' and a feuding. LFC have finally splashed the cash on a real striker. Let's all rejoice and wait for the Press conference in 20 minutes!

Hope sky news cover it, probably won't show it for long though

Zapp Brannigan

The-Rigger wrote:

Hope sky news cover it, probably won't show it for long though

I think you can watch it on Skysports.com on their broadband section. It's where I just saw Torres' Atletico one. It was only 37 seconds though.

The Muppet

Call_me_al wrote:

well mathematically take away the 17 goals and 14 assists and see where united would have ended up. anyway Torres will take time to settle and the main point i was making is that he will provide the difference in those games that we kept drawing and losing only because we didnt have that edge. he will bring that and hopefully that will put us right among chelski and mufc.

Bit of flawed logict there al. I assume united would have been aloud replace ronaldo with another player , maybe fergie would have picked someone that would have scored a few goals or got a few assits.

Chardee MacDennis

well IF we win the league next year we will be told that it was Torres' signing thats won it for us, unless we sign any better/more expensive players

Thanx 4 The Fish

I still do not see Liverpool winning the league as a result of this signing but I hope that we are at least in the mix in March.

Stky10

The Muppet wrote:

It's much easier to dismiss someones opinion and accuse them of Trolling rather than offer a counter argument but it doesn't add anything to the discusssion.

Well maybe if it was backed up with some evidence it might have been more readily accepted. But no, no evidence that Rafa had said in the past that he didn't rate Torres, no evidence that Hicks/Gillette had said in the past they were looking at players who like Beckham might be brought in almost purely to sell shirts and raise the club profile etc.

So instead all it was was unsubstantiated rubbish, and it got the reaction it deserved, ie the counter argument that showed what rubbish it was.

RE*AC*TOR

This will not be the last signing. I expect one or two more signings in the 10-15M bracket.

I also expect Lucas Leiva to make a big impression next year. I fully expect Liverpool to be challenging for the title.

Jesus Wept

stupid lack of sky sports on my telly!

zing

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I still do not see Liverpool winning the league as a result of this signing but I hope that we are at least in the mix in March.

March ? I'd rather be still in the mix in May

One of our biggest problems over the last couple of seasons has been a slow start and if we can hit the ground running and build on it then it should make for a very interesting season. I'm not expecting #19 next season - I just want us to significantly close the gap there has been between us & the league winners.