Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Zapp Brannigan

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Liverpool+Werder/video/x2kds2_bremen-vs-liverpool-lfctv-highlight

Highlights of the match last night. Voronin was very impressive.

zing

malice_ wrote:

I've often wondered if Riise has ever scored a goal from inside the penalty box for Liverpool? I realise he's taken penalties so I'm not counting those

Actually, as I am writing this I've just remembered his goal against Barcelona last season was from inside the box wasn't it?

Yup - was the first goal I thought of when I saw this post:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=h7HJs9bwj6w

His goal in the opening minute of the CC final a couple of years back was also from within the box iirc but I can't think of too many others

gary the great

Watched the game last night.

As has been said Veronin was good, took his goals well and worked really hard.

Torres looked good when he came on, wasnt afraid when the legs of the Bremen players where flying in. Looked strong and confident. Should of taken the 2 chances he had though, but he was getting himself into good goalscring postiotns which is what we need.

Babel didnt impress me in the 15mins - although its obviously to early to judge him. He looked very thin I thought and doesnt look like he likes to get physical. Seemed a bit scared when he got the ball and had a cople of weak shots.

El Zhar played well in the second half, some good touches. But he didnt really get into the game in the first half.

darkskol

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Liverpool+Werder/video/x2kds2_bremen-vs-liverpool-lfctv-highlight

Highlights of the match last night. Voronin was very impressive.

Thanks for that was just what I was looking for.
Voronin and Torres looked good, didn't see much of Babel and Alonso looked in a bit of better form than last season.

The Rooster

By Simon Stone, PA Sport Chief Football Writer, Seoul

Liverpool lodged a formal bid for Heinze on Monday. The £6million offer was immediately rejected by United, even though it met their private valuation.

And Ferguson has made it clear he will not countenance the prospect of Heinze heading down the East Lancs Road to Merseyside, a route travelled only once since the War, when Phil Chisnall joined United's hated rivals in 1962

"I can assure you, Liverpool will not be getting Gabriel Heinze," Ferguson told PA Sport.

"We can put that to bed right now and we have done so. We have had a couple offers for him and we have turned them down."

"Heinze's agents are rolling the ball all the time," said Ferguson. "But no matter what his agent thinks, we are in the driving seat.

"I don't exactly know what Gaby thinks because it is all coming from his agent but this has been going on for a year and a half now."

rahim

The Rooster wrote:

By Simon Stone, PA Sport Chief Football Writer, Seoul

Liverpool lodged a formal bid for Heinze on Monday. The £6million offer was immediately rejected by United, even though it met their private valuation.

And Ferguson has made it clear he will not countenance the prospect of Heinze heading down the East Lancs Road to Merseyside, a route travelled only once since the War, when Phil Chisnall joined United's hated rivals in 1962

"I can assure you, Liverpool will not be getting Gabriel Heinze," Ferguson told PA Sport.

"We can put that to bed right now and we have done so. We have had a couple offers for him and we have turned them down."

"Heinze's agents are rolling the ball all the time," said Ferguson. "But no matter what his agent thinks, we are in the driving seat.

"I don't exactly know what Gaby thinks because it is all coming from his agent but this has been going on for a year and a half now."

I thought that if Heinze wanted, he could buy himself out of his contract, would that not mean that ManU have limited control over any move???

RE*AC*TOR

I think Ferguson is just talking the talk as it were. Ultimately the decision will be out of his hands, but I imagine he will do all that he can to obstruct the Liverpool switch while facilitating as much as possible the interest from abroad.

Can't blame him really.

F365 wrote:

The matter is likely to bubble on for a while yet, especially as the deadline for Heinze to invoke a FIFA-backed buy-out clause has now expired.

Had the full-back stated his intent to pay up the remainder of his two-year United contract within two weeks of the season ending, Ferguson could not have stopped a move to Liverpool.

Mitch Connor

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I think Ferguson is just talking the talk as it were. Ultimately the decision will be out of his hands, but I imagine he will do all that he can to obstruct the Liverpool switch while facilitating as much as possible the interest from abroad.

Can't blame him really.

Why do you see it as being out of his hands?

Heinze is contracted to United, and contrary to reports doesn't have a minimum fee release clause; so United do not have to sell him at all - let alone to Liverpool

RE*AC*TOR

No club wants to keep a player who wants to leave. Legally and technically speaking the manager can stop the player moving, but in reality once a player wants to move, he generally does... and to where he wants...

Jazzy

heinze wont be going to liverpool it would be nice but it wont happen.
if i were rafa id get looking for a new target for that posistion now. i would imagine he already is

rahim

Do you think he'll leave Utd anyway but to someone else? Doesn't strike me as the type of player who'd be happy with second choice to Evra, could be wrong in that but he isn't getting younger and I would have thought he'd be looking for first team football as much as possible. Also, if he did go to Liverpool (I know it looks unlikely but humour me) do you think he'd be first choice LB or cover for both LB and CB?

Drag00n79

I suspect we will go all out for Chiellini now.

The Rooster

Tauren wrote:

Why do you see it as being out of his hands?

Heinze is contracted to United, and contrary to reports doesn't have a minimum fee release clause; so United do not have to sell him at all - let alone to Liverpool

Heinze can buy his own contract out. He will have to pay compensation to ManU. This would likey be his salary for the remainder of his contract (2 years at £60k or £65k per week).

He has to give 15 days notice after a ManU game, so therefore has to wait until the season starts before doing this. Not sure if many players would go down this route. Creates conflict on one side, and you'd wanna be damn sure you're new club would compensate you. Also tax pitfalls to be wary of for the player.

Mitch Connor

The Rooster wrote:

Heinze can buy his own contract out. He will have to pay compensation to ManU. This would likey be his salary for the remainder of his contract (2 years at £60k or £65k per week).

He has to give 15 days notice after a ManU game, so therefore has to wait until the season starts before doing this. Not sure if many players would go down this route. Creates conflict on one side, and you'd wanna be damn sure you're new club would compensate you. Also tax pitfalls to be wary of for the player.

Not how i understand it - I was under the impression that if he wished to move in the summer transfer window using this rule, he had to make his intentions know within 15 days of the previous season finishing for his club.

sweetie

Isn't it ironic that united are standing in heinze way in moving to liverpool and yet west ham are doing the same to them with Tevez so they call in Fifa. I don't mind if we don't get Heinze but surely they can't just use the rules to suit them.

Mitch Connor

sweetie wrote:

Isn't it ironic that united are standing in heinze way in moving to liverpool and yet west ham are doing the same to them with Tevez so they call in Fifa. I don't mind if we don't get Heinze but surely they can't just use the rules to suit them.

HAH

Cause Heinze is actually owned by a third party group, as opposed to United, and United unilaterly tore up the loan agreements, and said they didn't want to sign him permently, and said he was free to talk to other clubs, and United were fined 5.5million purely down to Heinze playing for them last season.....

ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

yom 1

Tauren wrote:

HAH

Cause Heinze is actually owned by a third party group, as opposed to United, and United unilaterly tore up the loan agreements, and said they didn't want to sign him permently, and said he was free to talk to other clubs, and United were fined 5.5million purely down to Heinze playing for them last season.....

ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

As I read that I felt like Vicky Pollard

yeah..but..no..but..yeah and he was owned by a third party group the complete bitch:p

Mitch Connor

yom 1 wrote:

As I read that I felt like Vicky Pollard

yeah..but..no..but..yeah and he was owned by a third party group the complete bitch:p

besides - you can't listen to what I say...everyones knows i keep sheep in my back garden for less then 'proper' reasons.:D

marius

Tauren wrote:

HAH

Cause Heinze is actually owned by a third party group, as opposed to United, and United unilaterly tore up the loan agreements, and said they didn't want to sign him permently, and said he was free to talk to other clubs, and United were fined 5.5million purely down to Heinze playing for them last season.....

ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

You appear to be mad into the use of Big letters Tauren......;)
but again - I agree with you...the two transfers are worlds apart....

Karmafaerie

Tauren wrote:

Why do you see it as being out of his hands?

Heinze is contracted to United, and contrary to reports doesn't have a minimum fee release clause; so United do not have to sell him at all - let alone to Liverpool

Yes, but if Heinze wants to go, he can buy himself out of his contract.
He'd then be a free agent, and could sign for anyone he chooses.

if he really, really wants to go to Liverpool, and Liverpool are willing to pay the £5-7 mill (depending on media reports of his wages), then Fergusson can't stop him.

Personally I'm not that bothered.
I rate Heinze, but to be honest would prefer someone younger.

Mitch Connor

marius wrote:

You appear to be mad into the use of Big letters Tauren......;)
but again - I agree with you...the two transfers are worlds apart....

big letters for a big person, yeah. init. word.:D

Mitch Connor

Karmafaerie wrote:

Yes, but if Heinze wants to go, he can buy himself out of his contract.
He'd then be a free agent, and could sign for anyone he chooses.

if he really, really wants to go to Liverpool, and Liverpool are willing to pay the £5-7 mill (depending on media reports of his wages), then Fergusson can't stop him.

Personally I'm not that bothered.
I rate Heinze, but to be honest would prefer someone younger.

I do not believe that he can buy his contract out, as my understanding of the rules are that if a player wants to buy his contract out and move during the summer transfer window, he must make this intention known within 2 weeks of the last game of his clubs season. This did not happen.

I do not think it applies to the start of the new season, ie. i do not believe he can serve notice come full time of the first game of the coming season and buy his contract out 2 weeks later.

marco_polo

sweetie wrote:

Isn't it ironic that united are standing in heinze way in moving to liverpool and yet west ham are doing the same to them with Tevez so they call in Fifa. I don't mind if we don't get Heinze but surely they can't just use the rules to suit them.

Did you get that definition of irony from the Alanis Morissette dictionary? In all fairness to United, the two situations could not be more different.

TBH if United were trying to sign a Liverpool player I would be delighted if Rafa told them to stick it (unless it had been Tráore or someone like that ).

rahim

Tauren wrote:

HAH

Cause Heinze is actually owned by a third party group, as opposed to United, and United unilaterly tore up the loan agreements, and said they didn't want to sign him permently, and said he was free to talk to other clubs, and United were fined 5.5million purely down to Heinze playing for them last season.....

ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

That sounds very like the Tevez thing.... sorry, couldn't resist.
But, yeah, they are totally different in fairness. The Heinze thing is fairly clear cut, no weird goings on and the Tevez thing seems really weird and no-body is fully aware of whats happening.

Mitch Connor

rahim wrote:

That sounds very like the Tevez thing.... sorry, couldn't resist.
But, yeah, they are totally different in fairness. The Heinze thing is fairly clear cut, no weird goings on and the Tevez thing seems really weird and no-body is fully aware of whats happening.

I'd say a lot of people are fully aware of what is the real issue with the Tevez deal - but (imo) the PL and West Ham are screwing around desperately trying to cover their own backs following the incorrect ruling by the PL last season, and lies subsequently told.

Anyway - that is a West Ham/United/PL/Tevez/MSI/Jimmy from round the corner issue - so doesn't really have a place in this thread. Appologies for the complete diversion there...

Drag00n79

Tauren wrote:

I was under the impression that if he wished to move in the summer transfer window using this rule, he had to make his intentions know within 15 days of the previous season finishing for his club.

This is true. However, not giving due notice of termination wouldn’t have automatically ruled out his right to buy out his contract, but he would expect some disciplinary measures to be imposed on him in line with the provisions of Article 17(3) of FIFA's "Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players".

"In addition to the obligation to pay compensation, sporting sanctions shall also be imposed on any player found to be in breach of contract during the Protected Period. This sanction shall be a restriction of four months on his eligibility to play in Official Matches. In the case of aggravating circumstances, the restriction shall last six months. In all cases, these sporting sanctions shall take effect from the start of the following Season of the New Club. Unilateral breach without just cause or sporting just cause after the Protected Period will not result in sporting sanctions. Disciplinary measures may, however, be imposed outside of the Protected Period for failure to give due notice of termination (i.e. within fifteen days following the last match of the Season). The Protected Period starts again when, while renewing the contract, the duration of the previous contract is extended."

rahim

Tauren wrote:

I'd say a lot of people are fully aware of what is the real issue with the Tevez deal - but (imo) the PL and West Ham are screwing around desperately trying to cover their own backs following the incorrect ruling by the PL last season, and lies subsequently told.

True, but I still think there are things that seem quite dodgy about the whole situation as far as West Ham, MSI and the PL are concerned. I agree that people are more than likely correct in what they assume to be the case but until it's totally revealed (probably in court by the looks of things) I can't say I'm fully aware of whats happening. I'm also sorry for shifting off topic.

PHB

Ok, let's clear this up.

If you breach a contract, two things can happen to you. Sporting sanctions and economic sanctions.
If Heinze was to breach his contract last summer, he would get both. Not only would be made pay the economic cost of the contract (economic sanctions), but he would be banned by FIFA for a significant time (sporting sanctions). This is likely to be 6 months according to the statement above, but I think it is longer.

If Heinze was to move now, without using the new rule, he would recieve both. In which case, he cannot move now.

In order to invoke the new rule, you have to give notice 15 days after the the end of the season, being defined as a European or Domestic football game. If you do not do that, you cannot use the rule. You can't use it mid-season for example.
That time has passed, Heinze cannot leave the club without United selling him.

It's why, Liverpool bid for Heinze. If Heinze can buy himself out, why did Liverpool bother bidding?

Fergie has said he won't be leaving for Liverpool, so that's that. Could still see him going abroad, with Real Madrid's interest appearing again.

p.s. this ignores the issue of not being able to use the clause within your own country, which isn't entirely clear whether it exists or not.

zing

PHB wrote:

Fergie has said he won't be leaving for Liverpool, so that's that. Could still see him going abroad, with Real Madrid's interest appearing again.

Yup - no way whiskey nose is going to make it easy for him to come to us and I don't think Rafa would bother pushing it as a result.

Time to move on from Heinze

emc2

zing wrote:

Yup - no way whiskey nose is going to make it easy for him to come to us and I don't think Rafa would bother pushing it as a result.

Time to move on from Heinze

I have a feeling that this was a smokescreen all along, give the press a juicy story and keep them busy while he lines up someone else and uses Heinze 'deal' as a means of keeping the price down.

zing

zing wrote:

Yup - no way whiskey nose is going to make it easy for him to come to us and I don't think Rafa would bother pushing it as a result.

Time to move on from Heinze

Whiskey nose (D minus for effort!) said he's definitely not so Id take that to mean end of story as opposed to making it difficult. United and Liverpool almost never buy directly between the 2.

Thanx 4 The Fish

And yet it has happened and if forced into it I would imagine Al will get rid of Heinze if he says that he no longer wishes to play for them. Heinze is apparently (according to the news) in possession of a letter that allows him to seek a new contract elsewhere, but Sir A thought then that he was going to go abroad.

zing

Deleted User wrote:

Whiskey nose (D minus for effort!)

Whatever

said he's definitely not so Id take that to mean end of story as opposed to making it difficult.

I used the words you highlighted intentionally as I don't think anything is definite when it comes to buying/selling players. Every player has a price but that price can vary significantly depending on the club asking. If Liverpool offered 40 or 50m for Heinze I could see him running and laughing all the way to the bank with the cash. Now that's not going to happen but I just couldn't see him turning it down despite his "I can assure you, Liverpool will not be getting Gabriel Heinze" statement.

Every player has a price.

United and Liverpool almost never buy directly between the 2.

Which tbh I find kind of amusing. I understand the reasons behind it but still find it somewhat amusing. Rival clubs all over the world regularly do business with each other - football is after all a business.

Jazzy

zing wrote:

Which tbh I find kind of amusing. I understand the reasons behind it but still find it somewhat amusing. Rival clubs all over the world regularly do business with each other - football is after all a business.

Luis Figo got a pigs head when he went to madrid from barca and general franco stopped football from being played in spain untill Di Stefano moved from barca to real.
wonder what would happen if totti went to lazio...

missingtime

If there is gonna be all this fuss over the move then I think we should'nt bother.

zAbbo

Looks a little messy doesn't it.

AF doesn't want to lose an International defender who can cover LB/CB.

PHB

Every player has a price.

Fair enough, but Liverpool would have to offer significantly more than another club for United to consider accepting it, something Liverpool wouldn't do.

~Rebel~

I would really like this transfer to go ahead if only to stop this taboo of switching between the 2 clubs. I thought maybe it might have ended with Ramon Callista a year or 2 ago, but since he was on a free and only a reserve anyway it never gets a mention.

Its not like Pool are trying to get Wayne Rooney or Ronaldo, so it doesn't really compare to the di stefano and figo cases. Its healthy to be able to buy and sell players with clubs around the general area, depending on who's needed and who's surplus to requirements. A player like Heinze or say O Shea (who we held an alleged interest in before) isn't going to make or break a club.

zing

PHB wrote:

Fair enough, but Liverpool would have to offer significantly more than another club for United to consider accepting it, something Liverpool wouldn't do.

Given AF's comments it would certainly seem that way. But I was just trying to make the point that nothing is definite when it comes to buying/selling players.

There is talk of some letter Heinze has saying he can go wherever he wants for X amount but that sounds a lot like newspaper talk to me.

Thanx 4 The Fish

True, and it would make sense for them geographically too as they live in the area already, is not even an hours drive between the two.

Heard that on the radio (about the letter) too and something on SSN about it yesterday.

zing

~Rebel~ wrote:

I thought maybe it might have ended with Ramon Callista a year or 2 ago, but since he was on a free and only a reserve anyway it never gets a mention.

That wasn't a transfer between the clubs - iirc he'd been released by Utd so was club less when we signed him.

~Rebel~

zing wrote:

That wasn't a transfer between the clubs - iirc he'd been released by Utd so was club less when we signed him.

yup thats true, i was just hoping at the time it might have ended the taboo of swapping. Just for the fact it was a player going from United to Pool without having been at any other clubs.

It might have if he was a more well known senior player e.g if Heinze was now released, and subsequently went and joined Liverpool

Basically just anything to stop people thinking a transfer between them is a non-starter forever. It just doesn't make sense. Apart from anything, more regular transfers might dissipate some of the more extreme venom in the rivalry. Rivalry is good, but at times the utd-Pool one is just way too far.

yom 1

~Rebel~ wrote:

I thought maybe it might have ended with Ramon Callista a year or 2 ago, but since he was on a free and only a reserve anyway it never gets a mention.

If I remember correctly he was released by United and then Liverpool offered him a 1 yr contract so he technically didnt transfer between the two clubs.

zing

zing wrote:

I used the words you highlighted intentionally as I don't think anything is definite when it comes to buying/selling players. Every player has a price but that price can vary significantly depending on the club asking. If Liverpool offered 40 or 50m for Heinze I could see him running and laughing all the way to the bank with the cash. Now that's not going to happen but I just couldn't see him turning it down despite his "I can assure you, Liverpool will not be getting Gabriel Heinze" statement.

So could I. But we both know Liverpool are not gonna pay anything near even 15 million for him.

zing wrote:

Every player has a price.

Absolutely, but I get the feelin theres one price for Pool for him andanother for everyone else.

zing wrote:

Which tbh I find kind of amusing. I understand the reasons behind it but still find it somewhat amusing. Rival clubs all over the world regularly do business with each other - football is after all a business.

I agree but the EPL is not like the Italian league where its commonplace to have played for all the big clubs. I think its fair nuff if the price is right but thats the way it is. U saw how Benfica jacked Simao's price cos of the fans and it wasnt like he was going to Sporting Lisbon....

I think there is a flip side to the "its a business" argument. Why would u weaken ur own team (which havin Silvestre in for Heinze would do) to strengthen one of your main rivals?? Just another angle to consider.

zing wrote:

That wasn't a transfer between the clubs - iirc he'd been released by Utd so was club less when we signed him.

Theres been one direct transfer since WW2, and apparently it caused some rukkus!!

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote:

Absolutely, but I get the feelin theres one price for Pool for him andanother for everyone else.

I think thats exactly what Zing was saying...to be honest United would be mad not to accept a bid of say, 2mill over the asking price, just on the principal that its "them down the road". Now, I would very much doubt that Pool would offer 2extra mill over the odds, but to say "No Heinze joining Liverpool is out of the questionl" sounds a bit childish or something...

U saw how Benfica jacked Simao's price cos of the fans and it wasnt like he was going to Sporting Lisbon....

I dont see you point..that was a totally different scenario. That was the fans kicking up that their best player, captain and talisman was going to be sold on deadline day out of the blue.

EDIT> Christ Neil, do you need 4 posts in a row? theres an edit button, you can just add your new points onto a previous one...and just onto one of your added points, it seems fairly clear Heinze is leaving anyway so the weakening your own team thing doesnt count here. I recognise that it is strengthening a rival, but in this case, is it really? He's a good player, but he's not a team-maker. If pool dont get him, they'll just carry on and get someone of a generally equal calibre, maybe slightly worse, maybe slightly better. To not transfer solely on the basis that its to pool doesn't make sense to me.

Very much a like for like comparison here is the transfer across merseyside of Abel Xavier.

siochain

Hi Lads
are Sentanta sports planning to run a liverpool tv station?
Cheers

siochain

OK found the answer

Tonight's match - plus Friday's friendly with Auxerre in Freiburg - are live and exclusive on Setanta Sports, the station which will be bringing you LFC TV when it launches in September.

LFC TV - the club's dedicated TV channel - will be included at no extra cost. The recently reduced price of £9.99 a month applies to the full Setanta Sports Pack, and there is no annual contract.

Once it launches in September the channel will also be broadcast live on www.liverpoolfc.tv as part of e-Season Ticket, the official website's premium content service.

zing

Deleted User wrote:

Theres been one direct transfer since WW2, and apparently it caused some rukkus!!

Not according to the man himself.

United finished second in ‘64 and I remember Matt Busby told me Liverpool had made a bid and that it was up to me whether I wanted to go or not.

After I signed I went back and played for Liverpool against United at Old Trafford. I can’t remember getting any stick – it wasn’t like that back then.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=the-day-that-phil-crossed-the-great-divide-&method=full&objectid=19416122&siteid=50061-name_page.html

Have to agree with Rebel here - rivalry is good and healthy but I do think it's taken too far at times. And the whole "We won't even entertain the thought of selling you a player" (regardless of whether it's Utd or Liverpool selling) is a good example of this. And I don't just mean that because of the current talk of Heinze joining - I'm honestly not that bothered whether he signs for Liverpool or not.

Karmafaerie

~Rebel~ wrote:

Apart from anything, more regular transfers might dissipate some of the more extreme venom in the rivalry. Rivalry is good, but at times the utd-Pool one is just way too far.

They started it!!!

(jk)

Mr Alan

Tauren wrote:

Not how i understand it - I was under the impression that if he wished to move in the summer transfer window using this rule, he had to make his intentions know within 15 days of the previous season finishing for his club.

Afraid i don't think that is the case my manc friend.

Far as i am aware, he can hand in his notice at any time before a united game (therefore if he wanted to join Liverpool for pre-season, he would have had to do it at the end of last season) but he could still do it after the first game of the season and go to Liverpool if he wanted, and there would be nothing Mr Ferguson could do about it, as much as he might like to think otherwise.

It would make Heinze a free agent so he would have no ties to any club and therefore he could even move outside the the set transfer windows if i'm not mistaken.

Dont think this will happen, but at the minute i would love it to, just to piss off ferguson.