Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

event

millersangel wrote:

Afraid i don't think that is the case my manc friend.

Far as i am aware, he can hand in his notice at any time before a united game (therefore if he wanted to join Liverpool for pre-season, he would have had to do it at the end of last season) but he could still do it after the first game of the season and go to Liverpool if he wanted, and there would be nothing Mr Ferguson could do about it, as much as he might like to think otherwise.

It would make Heinze a free agent so he would have no ties to any club and therefore he could even move outside the the set transfer windows if i'm not mistaken.

Dont think this will happen, but at the minute i would love it to, just to piss off ferguson.

if thats true, why hasnt he done it?
why hasnt he already made himself free, and gone around to other clubs?
why have liverpool made a bid for him if he can cancel his own contract?

he had to do it 15 days after the end of the season, as has been said numerous times before

Thanx 4 The Fish

I cannot see how you are having trouble with this, of course liverpool want to get him now, then he can get a pre-season and maybe put some comp in for the spot. Either way united get the money but this way they can hold out and cause liverpool trouble by not giving him when we want him, then if he buys out his contract we can get him but he will have to work hard to get used to the system etc on his own instead of learning it with a bunch of other players doing the same thing.

~Rebel~

It said on football 365 in black and white that he had to invoke the clause 15 days after the chelsea cup final game. It doesnt say anything about 1st game of the season.

~Rebel~ wrote:

I dont see you point..that was a totally different scenario. That was the fans kicking up that their best player, captain and talisman was going to be sold on deadline day out of the blue.

U are aware that Heinze was voted fans player of the year 2 years ago and is a solid fan favourite yes? Hence fans wouldnt be happy to see him go in general.

~Rebel~ wrote:

EDIT> Christ Neil, do you need 4 posts in a row? theres an edit button, you can just add your new points onto a previous one...and just onto one of your added points, it seems fairly clear Heinze is leaving anyway so the weakening your own team thing doesnt count here. I recognise that it is strengthening a rival, but in this case, is it really? He's a good player, but he's not a team-maker. If pool dont get him, they'll just carry on and get someone of a generally equal calibre, maybe slightly worse, maybe slightly better. To not transfer solely on the basis that its to pool doesn't make sense to me.

Very much a like for like comparison here is the transfer across merseyside of Abel Xavier.

I type up a reply and then I post it. Then when i get back to the thread there are more replies? Whats the problem??

It is strengthening the backline. Heinze would be in ahead of Riise for most games and is versitile enough to cover CB if Agger of Carra are injured too. U may not agree but maybe Fergie sees it that way.

PHB

Deleted User wrote:

It said on football 365 in black and white that he had to invoke the clause 15 days after the chelsea cup final game. It doesnt say anything about 1st game of the season.

The new rule was put in place to kinda make football contracts in line with contract law in general. They gave players this window to use the rule, which is 15 days after the final match of the season. They can use it then only. They cannot use it mid-season. Unless Heinze has already submitted the request (which is a possibility), he cannot do it again until next summer.

to be honest United would be mad not to accept a bid of say, 2mill over the asking price,

What if Fergie still rates Heinze? He thinks he is a great player, just not quite as good as Evra. What if he thinks that Liverpool are one player away from possibly challenging United, and that player is Heinze?

If United sold to Liverpool for like 8 million, Heinze played incredible, and it put them ahead of United, it would be really really bad business for United.

The thing is, there isn't a huge amount of proven defensive talent available on the market currently, so us selling to say Spain, not only doesn't improve Liverpool with Heinze, it leaves them having to get a worse option. All of these things only help United, possibly more than the 2 million extra you'd get.

Stky10

PHB wrote:

The thing is, there isn't a huge amount of proven defensive talent available on the market currently

I don't know about that. Its much easier to take a decent CB and make him better by coaching and integrating him into a good system than it is to take a CF and try and mould him into a better goalscorer. George Graham made a whole career out of it.

Without spending anymore than a minute or two thinking about this, some that spring to mind are Ezequiel Garay, Curtis Davies, Ruben Gonzalez, Daniele Bonera, as well as Chiellini who has already been linked.

PHB

Yeh, I agree you can be a better defender with less skill compared to attack, but I think Benetiz isn't looking for somebody like that, he wants somebody who can instantly come in and improve the team, or is likely to in the future.

Stky10

Well we can only guess what type of player Rafa is looking for at the back. It could be he'll settle for another Agger type player who can develop pretty quickly, or he could go for an older Heinze-like experienced player. Either way there are plenty about like Gael Givet, Seb Squillaci, Nicola Legrottaglie, Luisao, Per Mertesacker, Walter Samuel etc as well as those I mentioned earlier. Just because Heinze didn't come off doesn't mean they'll go for a similar type player next time round.

The only problem I think they'll have is finding someone who is pretty good, but who is willing to be second choice behind Carra and Agger.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote:

U are aware that Heinze was voted fans player of the year 2 years ago and is a solid fan favourite yes? Hence fans wouldnt be happy to see him go in general.

But that has nothing to do with a transfer to liverpool specifically. He's gonna move its just a question of where, so if you think its the fans driving the price up, that will be the same as for any other prospective buyer. Its the fact that its a local rival in this case which would raise the price, therefore the example of Simao isn't relavent.

I type up a reply and then I post it. Then when i get back to the thread there are more replies? Whats the problem??

You posted up 4 messages in a row with no messages between them, just 4 from you. The mods cleaned it up for you and put them all into one.

It is strengthening the backline. Heinze would be in ahead of Riise for most games and is versitile enough to cover CB if Agger of Carra are injured too. U may not agree but maybe Fergie sees it that way.

You didn't read what my actual point was. I said that it wont specifically weaken United by him going to liverpool as he's leaving anyway, its just a case of where. On him strengthening Liverpool as I Said previously, yes of course he will to a point, but he's not a teamchanging player, he wont make or break either team. Also as i said, if pool cant get him, they'll just turn their attentions elsewhere and get someone of a similar calibre, maybe slightly worse, maybe slightly better, but its not exactly a massive stroke to deny him the transfer. It just seems more like pettyness to not sell to the bitter local rivals.

My point from earlier is that if there were more player sales of this level of player (ie. not the gerrards or ronaldo's, just the ones which are surplus to requirements) it could go a long way to lessoning the at times ridiculous levels of animosity between the two clubs. It might lesson the whole "THEM and US" atmosphere that can spiral out of control. Sometimes it seems like people forget the fans of other teams are just that - people who are just the same, but follow another team. I just think its a bad idea supporting the negative view above by coming out with this "whatever happens, we're not selling to them down the road, even if we have to settle for less money" nonsense.

tonc76

Liverpool will turn their attentions to £7m-rated Juventus left-back Giorgio Chiellini after Man Utd snubbed their offer for Gabriel Heinze. (Daily Star)

zing

This
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=liverpool-still-confident-on-gabriel-heinze-deal%26method=full%26objectid=19484636%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
suggests we're still in the running for Heinze despite AF's most recent comments. Also claims we've not submitted an offer yet.

I see Gill has also come out this morning and said they wouldn't sell to Chelsea or Arsenal either. As I've said I do think that stance between the big 4 is a bit silly. If you're prepared to sell the player then that player must be considered surplus to requirements and/or you've lined up a replacement so it shouldn't matter who you sell them to really. I understand why they do it but
a) it's not weakening your side if that player is considered surplus and will
will be sold anyway
b) there's no guarantee that the player will feature regularly with the other
team or be a success there
c) other team is going to strengthen that position anyway
etc..
Actually Chelsea & Arsenal have done business recently so I guess they may not have the same reservations. Not sure about Liverpools stance but it did look like they would have very reluctantly sold StevieG to Chelsea a couple of years back but then they weren't exactly being given much choice there (I'm not talking about the circumstances that lead to that position).

Just wish this would go away one way or the other - it's becoming rather tedious and annoying.

Jazzy

the ashley cole transfer was hardly a smooth affair tho. i dunno, as soon as i heard about the heinze rumour I knew it wouldnt happen. it would have been nice for liverpool but oh well, it would also be nice to have ronaldo on the wing and have gary neville playing for the reserves

I hope we get that defensive cover sorted. i still think Riise can cut it as a first choice left back. Aurelio is also quite good so i see no point in strengthening that side alone. a handy man defender is whats needed imo, sum1 who can play at centre back and can also cover either flank. they are rare enough though... if only we could clone carragher

zing

Jazzy wrote:

a handy man defender is whats needed imo, sum1 who can play at centre back and can also cover either flank. they are rare enough though...

Arbeloa can do that. We've only seen in as full back but he apparently played CD for Deportivo during his time there and did quite well. Different league though and whether or not he'd be up to it in the PL remains to be seen

As for that comment about Neville in a Liverpool shirt - it may have been said in jest but get that dirty dirty thought out of your head right now and get yourself to confession

Jazzy

zing wrote:

As for that comment about Neville in a Liverpool shirt - it may have been said in jest but get that dirty dirty thought out of your head right now and get yourself to confession

the thought of gary neville playing in the reserves and being split from his dad.. i mean manager and his captains armband (its a crying shame that ryan giggs wasnt given it) slogging it out in front of crowds of about 30 ppl when hes used to the packed stands in "The theatre of dreams" is still a happy one
gary neville is the exact image of the pigheaded, snobby utd fans. the fact that he is captain and he runs over on his tod 80 metres away from his team mates to celebrate in front of pool fans shows his character imo. no dignity, no respect and no brain... hes mates with becks tho.
i could stomach cantona, heck, utd are my 2nd favorite team (yeah i know.. dont ask how) but he is the exact type of worm that no matter how talented (in his case most of his talents are limited to consistency and throw ins) he is, you still wouldnt want him near any team you even vaguely like

Chardee MacDennis

Jazzy wrote:

heck, utd are my 2nd favorite team

i think you should leave!!!

Stky10

Simao to Madrid... ends that speculation finally...

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=358388

zing

Heinze prepared to get all legal with Utd ?
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=gabriel-heinze-see-you-in-court-fergie%26method=full%26objectid=19485967%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Also contradicts the earlier article I posted saying we hadn't bid and I'd usually take Bascombes word on such matters.

Get yourself a comfy seat and watch how this one unfolds.

EDIT: bbc reporting similar without directly mentioning the legal route
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6900545.stm

Thanx 4 The Fish

Once/if he joins the pool he will go from a cracking player (according to some Man U fans) to a rubbish third string player....

Mitch Connor

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Once/if he joins the pool he will go from a cracking player (according to some Man U fans) to a rubbish third string player....

you will see a lot of that - but you'd also have seen a fair amount of it last season when he was stinking it up at centre back and, to a slightly lesser extent, at left back.

I don't mind him going, I like the guy but Evra is better, but i just don't want him to go to Liverpool. He is a fans favourite at the club, and to force a move to team we hate the most, would be a real kick in the teeth for all the fans.

futuredeath

team - Mihaylov, Finnan, Paletta, Carragher, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Gerrard, Hobbs, Babel, Voronin, Kuyt.

RE*AC*TOR

Hobbs? pffft..

redzerdrog

anywere online ya can watch this match?

Mitch Connor

redzerdrog wrote:

anywere online ya can watch this match?

http://www.footballstreaming.info/schedule/streams/friendlies.html

The Rooster

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Hobbs? pffft..

Only a young lad, give him a chance! He was mediocre against Bremen but that seemed more down to a lack in confidence than a lack in ability.

Stky10

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Hobbs? pffft..

Decent player, and one I think they've determined will be given a decent chance at making the first team. Not as a midfielder though, but as a CB. I read before that its Pako Herrera that came up with the idea of playing him in midfield for the reserves so as to improve his ball playing skills.

Gerrard didn't really help him against Bremen by covering the entire pitch like a headless chicken. Might be different today.

RE*AC*TOR

I was only messing with the Hobbs comment, its a pre-season friendly, I wouldn't care if Rick Parry was in goal.

eirebhoy

Is anyone else watching Setanta on a widescreen? It's not actually widescreen for me (ie. it cuts off both sides).

Mr Alan

Tauren wrote:

you will see a lot of that - but you'd also have seen a fair amount of it last season when he was stinking it up at centre back and, to a slightly lesser extent, at left back.

I don't mind him going, I like the guy but Evra is better, but i just don't want him to go to Liverpool. He is a fans favourite at the club, and to force a move to team we hate the most, would be a real kick in the teeth for all the fans.

Honestly think that Evra is over-rated by a lot of people, in the same way that Riise is.

Surely you could understand why Heinze would like a move to the most successful english club of all time!?!?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Tauren wrote:

you will see a lot of that - but you'd also have seen a fair amount of it last season when he was stinking it up at centre back and, to a slightly lesser extent, at left back.

I don't mind him going, I like the guy but Evra is better, but i just don't want him to go to Liverpool. He is a fans favourite at the club, and to force a move to team we hate the most, would be a real kick in the teeth for all the fans.

He isn't moving to Man City.

zing

Not much of a game from what I've seen so far. Hopefully it'll get a bit better before I fall asleep. I know these games aren't meant to be competitive as such but still

eirebhoy

I can't believe how "friendly" this is. Do any of the players care about the gamblers?

eirebhoy

1-0 Gerrard.

Thanx 4 The Fish

These commentators are just awful..

Thanx 4 The Fish

1-0 Gerrard on the stroke of half time

~Rebel~

Ach. The first 5 - 10 mins were quite good, some good quick passing, but as soon as Benayoun and Babel swapped we just kind of stopped...Benayoun still did ok on the left, but nearly every move ended with a mistake by Babel or Hobbs. Babel looked much more comfortable out left. Course when things started falling apart in midfield, Voronin and Kuyt started getting deeper and deeper and we were just totally misshapen..

That ball from Voronin to Kuyt was some peach though!

eirebhoy

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

These commentators are just awful..

I have to say, Ian Crocker is one of my favourite commentators. He's brutal today but it's pretty hard to liven yourself up for a match like this. He does the SPL commentary and very few people would have any complaints about him, and it's a hard lot to please.

He won the hearts of the Celtic fans for his commentary on this Sky Sports game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLbsoPUrSy4

copacetic

eirebhoy wrote:

Is anyone else watching Setanta on a widescreen? It's not actually widescreen for me (ie. it cuts off both sides).

it's widescreen on sky during the halftime/ads, but the feed from france is 4:3 so they leave it like that during the game.

eirebhoy

copacetic wrote:

it's widescreen on sky during the halftime/ads, but the feed from france is 4:3 so they leave it like that during the game.

Oh right, cheers.

redzerdrog

any changes made at half time?

~Rebel~

any changes made at half time?

riise at LB finnan off,
Arbeloa moved to RB,
Agger for Carra,
Xabi for Gerrard,
Pennant for Babel,
Crouch and Torres for Kuyt and Voronin.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Is now

mihaylov
riise paletta agger arbeloa
yossi alonso hobbs pennant
crouch torres

Or at least that is what it looks like, I am not sure, stream is not great.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yossi looking lively, alot quicker that I ever gave him credit for.

Three or four good attakcs in a row with some good link-ups

~Rebel~

El Zhar on for Yossi

Yeah Yossi has looked really good on both left and right, a few great passes while at a sprint.

Thanx 4 The Fish

El Zhar on for Yossi

My feed must be way behind you guys. Am getting things up to a minute after ye....

Thanx 4 The Fish

2-0 Some decent play agina and a header from agger to make it 2

redzerdrog

cheers lads i cant get the stream working at al thanx for the updates

redzerdrog

who scored?

edit: just saw it there cheers

Thanx 4 The Fish

Crouchie should have scored there, keeper was stranded and he had all of the left side to aim at. Getting alot of good service from the flanks.

~Rebel~

i have to admit, El zhar has impressed me more then Babel..i know its preseason friendly time, but still..10+million..


edit> stream die on anyone else?

copacetic

el zhar looked good on wed too. my reaction to todays game:

meh.

eirebhoy

El Zhar did look good. Who is he anyway?:o