Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Cyrus

has anyone not thought that baros and crouch would make a great pairing?

about the only player he has played well with is Jan Koller

Keep baros and sell morientes i say (very unlikely)

Bannor

Liverpool have had offers of €10M and €12M rejected. The asking price is currently €15M and could rise since Madrid registered their interest.

midget lord

redspider wrote:

Yes, I am unhappy with what Baros has done, who isnt, but that does not mean that he doesnt have the potential of being a top player and a better player than Crouch. Maybe he will never be a top player. Maybe Benitez has tried to coach him and failed, and is now looking to off-load him as a "failed project". But in terms of football and his finishing ability, it would seem to me that he has more skill and composure than Crouch, and more potential.

So overall:
- I'm not happy with the Crouch signing, 7m is a lot.
- Baros has been better than Crouch in the past and should be in the future, although there are no guarantees
- Baros has been given a chance at Liverpool, but not the ideal chance, not in his best position nor with a line-up that supports his type of play

Crouch has outscored Baros in the Premiership. Last season, Baros' Goals to games ratio was 3.31, while Crouches was 2.06.

I totally understand where your coming from in comparing Baros' international scoring record to his domestic, but as you also pointed out, the set-up's are completely different. Baros is one of the Czechs biggest players, he is not as high up the pecking order in anfield. He was behind MO for the first few seasons he was with us and complained that he was not getting first team football. MO left, and Baros gets his chance. He doesnt perform and the whinges about been taken off, eventhough he wasnt performing.

p.pete

Personally I wish we sold him after the Euro Championships when he was worth something. I don't agree that he hasn't been given chances and he's done little since summer 2004 when he shined away from Anfield. In that time he has been far from prolific, he's sulked and complained and he's talked about wanting to play for other clubs.

PHB

Jivin we're not gona agree so we might aswell just wait until the new season starts.

---

Everyone says this, that Crouch scored more goals than Baros, and its just nuts, Crouch is nowhere near the level of Baros.
Baros plays as part of a team attacking.
Crouch played as the one man target man and had the entire team giving the balls to him since he was the one to score.
Smith scored more goals for Leeds than Saha/Rooney did, but there was no way he was gona outscore them when he put on the United shirt, cause he isn't the total focus of attack.
Crouch will experience the same problem

p.pete

PHB wrote:

Baros plays as part of a team attacking.

Yes and no, before Baros gets the ball definitely yes. He works hard and makes good runs. After he gets the ball it's not so much that he's no longer part of a team attacking but that the team may as well not be there...

Big Nelly

PHB wrote:

Jivin we're not gona agree so we might aswell just wait until the new season starts.

---

Everyone says this, that Crouch scored more goals than Baros, and its just nuts, Crouch is nowhere near the level of Baros.
Baros plays as part of a team attacking.
Crouch played as the one man target man and had the entire team giving the balls to him since he was the one to score.
Smith scored more goals for Leeds than Saha/Rooney did, but there was no way he was gona outscore them when he put on the United shirt, cause he isn't the total focus of attack.
Crouch will experience the same problem

Not sure about this, Baros should be the focus of attack but because he isnt the best players dont pass it to him.......as said in that Liverpool link there why would you pass to him, Gerrard with great pass to Baros, Baros picks up ball and runs off like headless chicken and cant see anything but the ball.....then either runs into defender or over the end line......starts playing with his hair for next 20 mins till he gets ball again and does exact same!!!! why would you pass to that?

I have been impressed with Crouch, can pass the ball, score goals and can actually see the other players on the team which helps! I would sell Baros ASAP! in my mind they should have sold him last season when everyone was raving about him and forgot about his headless chicken runs!!!

~Rebel~

People are totally forgetting that baros had a great first half of the season and then a poor second half. its not that he was consistently poor, he shined for half the season so obviously if a little less pressure were on him in the second half when everyone else was out and a little more support played with him he would have probably been much better for the second half as well. Like most strikers he's a confidence player but this year was forced to keep playing as there was noone else, with all the pressure on the team on him which didn't help at all. yes he runs into blind ally's but he creates so much for himself that i say its worth it for the good stuff. You cant just see the bad points and ignore the good. Just because crouch had his good half second he's still seen as a total hero when in actual fact they're the same, baros was good in the first half of the season, crouch was good in the second half.

Big Nelly

I actual liked Crouch when he played for Villa.....played a few games under O'Leary and was scoring a good few goals!! also scored a couple of great goals! one was in a game where they won 5-0 or soemthing!! cant remember who against!!

Have never really liked Baros...from the first day I seen him didnt really think he was worth it! mind u Houllier bought him and I hated all of Houlier signings!! must have been after the first 5 "New Zidanes"!

StickyMcGinty

baros is one of the best finishers 1 on 1 with the keeper i've ever seen, but thats about it. if he stays, i reckon he'll become somthing better, but we need the money for a center half instead

Drag00n79

Big Nelly wrote:

I actual liked Crouch when he played for Villa.....played a few games under O'Leary and was scoring a good few goals!! also scored a couple of great goals! one was in a game where they won 5-0 or soemthing!! cant remember who against!!

Leicester I think.

redspider

Bannor wrote:

Goalkeepers: Reina/Carson/Kirkland/Dudek
Right backs: Finnan/Josemi/Barragan/Raven
Centre backs: Carragher/Hyypia/Milito*/Traore/Medjani/Whitbred
Left backs: Riise/Traore/Warnock
Right midfield: Figo*/Galletti*/Garcia/Nunez/Zenden
Left midfield: Kewell/Gonzalez/Garcia/Zenden/Riise
Central midfield: Alonso/Gerrard/Hamann/Sissoko/Potter/Welsh
Forwards: Cisse/Crouch/Baros/Morientes/Pongolle/Le Tallec/Mellor
(* assuming the deals go through)
If the left back position was strengthened then Liverpool would have a squad which is more than capable of challenging the top three.

[good to see you back posting Bannor, however your theory of Crouch being a bluff to get Kuyt didnt work out!]

I think it is worthwhile if we look at the full squad picture as it curently stands. I do take the point that was made by another poster (Jivin T) that all the pieces of the Benitez jigsaw have not fallen into place. The transfer window closes in early Sep, so we wont know the final picture for sure until then.

However, in the meantime, lets look at the squad as it stands, and the preferred players that Benitez is likely to select. I think his preferred players are as follows:

GK: Reina (Carson backup, Dudek for sale)
RB: Finnan (Josemi backup)
2x CB: Carragher, Hyypia (Traore backup - we are short here)
LB: Riise (Warnock and Traore backup)
RM: Garcia (we are short here, Pongolle as an option?)
2x CM: Alonso, Gerrard (Hamann will rotate in, Sissoko backup)
LM: Zenden (Riise as an option, Gonzalez is injured)
2x F: Morientes, Cisse (Crouch mainly sub, Le Tallec backup, Baros likely to be sold)

Note 1: all 3 of Alonso, Gerrard and Hamann will play in some games.
Note 2: this doesnt presume only 4-4-2, Benitez will change formation based on needs, and players such as Garcia will at times play more up front than in midfield or in between the two in a 4-5-1 formation. It was also interesting to hear that he mentioned Garcia in the same breath as all his other forwards recently.

I think that in general Benitez is spreading his bets across many players. I guess he has learned one thing from last season and that is that "star" signings and indeed any player can get injured, and squad depth is very important.

Some dangerous scenario's:
- Finnan and Carra get injured
- Alonso or Gerrard get injured
- Baros sold, Morientes gets injured, Crouch and Cisse end up being poor at creating
- over-reliance on Gerrard

I think its a good squad. I dont think it will have Chelsea quaking in their boots, but team spirit may be better than all those of the current top-3. There is definitely enough caability to be in the top-4, as there was last year.

My own gut feeling is that Chelsea wont be as succesful this season as last, in terms of no. of points. Arsenal and Man U will be close to each other. Liverpool should be within distance of them, and may even pip one of them, so a top-3 place is possible. But there are too many variables and a lot will depend on injuries to all the teams (eg: if Henry ever gets injured!), ajd of course who is signed, etc.

But one thing at the moment, and ets hope it persists, is the strong Liverpool team spirit. Gerrard seems to be on the boil as he has got his head sorted out.

redspider

Bacchus

A friend suggested this formation which I think looks pretty cool. Not sure how effective it would be though. It kinda of a 3-2-3-2 formation.

---

Reina

---

Carragher---Hyypia---Milito/(new guy)
Finnan/Garcia

---

Riise/Zenden

---

Hamann

---

Alonso

---

Gerrard

---

Cisse/Morientez----Crouch


We all know Finnan and Riise are great defenders that love getting up the wing and have the pace and skill to do it effectively. With Milito or another new defender we would have a solid back three central defence (Hyypia has the height, Carragher and Milito are hard hitting tacklers (if not Milito, new defender needs to be top class).
Hamann is excellent cover just in front of the defence and Alonso with his inch perfect passing and great positional play would be lethal as usual setting up the wingers on a run or setting up Gerrard and the front two.
I think Gerrard is best when playing an attacking position and has made a habit out of scoring goals from outside the box.
Not much to be said about the front two that hasn't been said before.
What do ye think of this system. Would it have a chance in the PL?

kevix78

Speaking of strikers...does anyone know if Pongolle is fit again???..doesnt appear to be included in pre-season yet..I think that kid could be something good...in my opinion Le Tallec just doesnt cut the mustard.

Necronomicon

Well both Riise and Zenden can do a handy enough job at left back, but at the right side, I don't think the position would suit Garcia. Plenty of flare going forward, but I think the defence would be exposed if he was in that position.

If you were to go with that formation, I'd keep Finnan right back, move Gerrard into Hamman's position and put Garcia where you have Gerrard.
Can't really see Rafa going for that formation though.

midget lord

I have been told to expect and announcement re: Milito on the 24 or 25th of this month.

~Rebel~

Pongolle is still injured. Its a long term thing so he may not be back till about the start of the season, and so will probably not be featuring for another bit after that as he'll be given a few reserve games to build up with, unless of course widespread injuries to start off with!

redspider

Bacchus wrote:

A friend suggested this formation which I think looks pretty cool. Not sure how effective it would be though. It kinda of a 3-2-3-2 formation.

---

Reina

---

Carragher---Hyypia---Milito/(new guy)
Finnan/Garcia

---

Riise/Zenden

---

Hamann

---

Alonso

---

Gerrard

---

Cisse/Morientez----Crouch
What do ye think of this system. Would it have a chance in the PL?

Its 5-3-2, with wing-backs, probaby played with Finnan and Riise rather than Garcia and Zenden. Some managers play this formation in away games, its safer and more defensive. It was popular some seasons back. However, such a formation would leave out Garcia which is a complete no-no for Benitez. So, I dont think he will play it. And most thinkers of the game are settling on 4 in the back. Note that in the 2nd half of the CL final Benitez only played 3 at the back, and no wing-backs. A major risk that came off.

The points you make about Hamann and Alonso and Gerrard, I agree with. Those positions are there best positions. Put 4 at the back, put Garcia in a role on the left or on the right, or Zenden, and its a lop-sided diamond formation. Gerrard gets around the pitch too and so can cover a lot of ground, covering the centre when in defensive mode as Alonso moves more to the left.

I dont think Cisse/Crouch would work out well though as a front two. Cisse is not a winger, just as Hasselbaink isnt. They think they can do it at times but they cant. Morientes with Crouch is probably a better combination, and indeed is Cisse and Morientes. If these two players could strike up an understanding then thnigs could be good, but Cisse is so raw and unrefined.

Sell Crouch and Dudek and bring in Kuyt perhaps!

redspider

The Muppet

I think Crouch and Morientes are too alike to be effictive in the same team .With the current players I would play Cisse and either Crouch or Morientes. If I were liverpool manager I would try sign Micky Owen on the cheap.

Davei141

Sell Crouch and Dudek and bring in Kuyt perhaps!

Yeah lets pay an extra few million quid for kuyt. What will he do that morientes, cisse, baros, pongolle and le tallec currently cant do? Atleast with crouch's height hell be a nightmare in the box, not nessecarily a 'keeper2crouch' long ball 24/7 that youve convinced yourself of.

Bannor

redspider wrote:

[good to see you back posting Bannor, however your theory of Crouch being a bluff to get Kuyt didnt work out!]

It wasn't a theory - Crouch was on Benitez's list but he wasn't the top target. Liverpool weren't prepared to pay the asking prices for Johnson or Kuyt. Last week they submitted a restructured payment offer for Johnson, there were also talks regarding Kuyt but there was no change - Crouch was on the back burner until those two avenues were exhausted.

Bannor

kevix78 wrote:

Speaking of strikers...does anyone know if Pongolle is fit again???..doesnt appear to be included in pre-season yet..I think that kid could be something good...in my opinion Le Tallec just doesnt cut the mustard.

Sinama is expected to be back in training by the end of August.

stevoslice

hey bannor, whats the story so on milito, figo and galletti, and is there anyone else in the pipeline so to speak.

Necronomicon

Hasn't Figo joined Inter Milan yet?

stevoslice

Crouch to miss start of season: -
Click here.

p.pete

Grrr, I read that and feared he'd injured himself already!!!

stevoslice

yeah, got the same reaction myself when i read it on the liverpoolfc.tv website, just wanted to pass it on...

tibor

VinnyL wrote:

baros is one of the best finishers 1 on 1 with the keeper i've ever seen

You must've missed the Everton game at the end of last season then...

StickyMcGinty

tibor wrote:

You must've missed the Everton game at the end of last season then...

i'm not just talking about one game, i'm talking overall, he is unreal in 1 on one situations

tibor

VinnyL wrote:

i'm not just talking about one game, i'm talking overall, he is unreal in 1 on one situations

Unreal with the number of them he screws up, yes.
Missed another clean through one on one against TNS on Tuesday...

jesus_thats_gre

He wasnt playing on Tuesday...

PiE

No but he missed a very important 1 on 1 against Juve in the CL, when one goal would have put the tie beyond doubt. That's the one thing that sticks in my mind when I think of Baros.

Lucky for him Juve were sh*t.

ianomccabe

Yeah Juve were sh1t alright, as were Chelsea and as for the AC Milan crowd...... what were they even doin in europe :rolleyes:

Jivin Turkey

Baros (for Liverpool) has been very poor at one on ones. Very very poor. Its got to the stage I dont even get exited when I see him get put through.

Shred

I'd have to agree, I'm never confident when he's in a one on one with a keeper as he screws up most times :rolleyes:

el rabitos

ah but it was baros who caused all the trouble in the box leading up to the liverpool goal against chelski. he has his uses, and he's still only 23

Shred

Personally I'd love to see Baros stay and develop into a fantastic striker (which I think he will be one day) under Benitez's guidance, but I think he's shot his mouth off once too often for his own good since the Carling cup final and he wasn't producing the goods often enough in the second half of the season...Having said that, he's not suited to playing the lone stiker role - he needs to play off someone.

PiE

ianomccabe wrote:

Yeah Juve were sh1t alright, as were Chelsea and as for the AC Milan crowd...... what were they even doin in europe :rolleyes:

ROLLEYES

I'm a Liverpool fan and I'll freely admit Juve were atrocious, especially in Turin.

el rabitos

Having said that, he's not suited to playing the lone stiker role - he needs to play off someone.

which would make me wonder why we're selling off the one player who is proven to be able to make the best of playing with a lanky player

the lone striker role is a thankless job, and baros seems to be reaping the beifits of being relied on too much in the 2nd half of the season

Jivin Turkey

I do feel that if we were to let Baros go we could look back in a few years and think, why oh why did we do that? When hes banging them in for Real Madrid or Barcelona or someone. He is still very much an unpolished diamond.

There is no doubting his class. Ive seen him do it for the Czechs quite a few times. Ive seen it at times for Liverpool. But for Liverpool we have only ever seen glimpses, and Im not talking about a good game here or there, I mean has he ever played a stunning 90 minutes? Has he ever picked up a MOTM award? I mean its not uncommon for strikers to bag 4 or 5 of them a year.

His goalscoring record is not great for Liverpool either, particularly in Europe where it is woeful. Its about 1 in 3 in the league, again not good enough for a club with Liverpools aspirations.

So its decision time. Should we sell him? Do we need the money to strengthen elsewhere? Will we give him one last chance (for gods sake the amount of players on their last chance at Liverpool you would need an AK47 to dispatch them all if they failed)?

Id like to see him with Crouch, Id also like to see Cisse with Crouch. For me Cisse's attitude far exceeds Baros's. This is one of his main problems. Cisse loves Liverpool (anyone see the wedding photos? ). Baros has got a huge ego on him even before the EC. So I conclude let Baros go. But not on the cheap, £10M+ would be good business for an unproven striker with only two years to run.

Shred

@ El Rabitos - Yeah I know, I think Crouch and Baros could work well together too. But, as I previously mentioned, Baros doesn't know when to keep his gob shut and I don't think Benitez has time for that sort of "me, me, me" crap. Everything is geared towards the team/squad

Edit: @ Jivin - totally agree

el rabitos

theres good arguements on both sides of the situation with baros, for me though i'd like to see him stay until january at least

we havent really seen cisse and morientes in great shape yet, and crouch might not be able to hack it at a club where theres such a high level of expectancy at times.

with baros we know what we're going to get, at times it may not be what anyone wants, but he does have his use to the team

when it comes to cisse, morentes and crouch we still dont really know how they will get on over an extended period of time, so i'd like to see how things go until xmas.

then if morientes finds his sharpness, cisse stops veering off to the right and crouch turns out to be as good as we hope, then yeah, i'd feel better about selling him off

Necronomicon

I think if I was a Liverpool fan, I'd be frustrated at how temprimental Baros seems to be. While there's clearly talent there, he only seems to show it in patches (and, as was mentioned above, has shot his mouth off a few times).
I think he will move on, (Am I right in saying he was left out of the two squads that faced TNS?) not sure where, but I don't think Benitez rates him as much as Morientes, Cisse or even Crouch.

~Rebel~

The whole baros thing stems from the carling cup final when he wasn't selected to start, ironically enough as this was supposed to be his moment to shine after being brought on and then off again in the last one against manu. He built that game up a lot saying this was where he would show what he was made of, only to be on the bench for a player who had only just arrived. That is the exact moment Baros lost it for the season. His confidence just went out the window. I actually really rate him as a player, just think he needs an extra little man management, which rafa was doing really well with towards the start of the season when on a few occasions he took off cisse to leave some of the focus on baros. And in fairness, between the start of the season and the Carling cup final he played great. Not sure who asked but as for MOTM performances he definately had a few that i can think of, especially the one where he won the game for us with his hattrick. Now i dont know if he actually won it but he def deserved it.

I definately think it would be a bad idea to sell him before january though, even if we lose some money on him, as id love to see how he'd do with a Koller'a'like. As someone also pointed out we dont know that any of the others can actually do it in the PL with liverpool. They probably can but we dont know.. And if baros does have a bad run, we can always just not start him, as im sure would have been the plan last year except for all the injuries which meant he had to play regardless. I could easily imagine him getting the same number of goals in a 3rd less games..

He definately can have a bit of an attitude problem (again stemming from the carling cup final where he felt the start was his right and where he was so very very up for it), but at the same time when he's on the pitch, even when out of confidence, he runs and harries the defence like noone else!

In conclusion, imo, id like him to be put down the pecking order a bit but hung onto to see how he performs, as he had great seasons in previous years playing as the 3rd striker (getting near enough to the same amount of PL goals with far far less game time). He's not there yet, but im positive he'll develope into something everyone would want in their team.

That probly counts for about 7 or 8 cents there but thanks or reading (if you did!)

tibor

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

He wasnt playing on Tuesday...

Sorry, was against Leverkusen.

Had just watched the highlights of the 2 of them together, posted without thinking. Point still stands though, he sucks one v one. As someone mentioned earlier he's best working on reaction when he doesn't have time to think.

Villain

Apparently Villa have bid for Baros :mad:

No way I want him at Villa, I have never seen a striker run with his head down so much.

StickyMcGinty

lads maybe the euro 2004 goal he scored one v one where he scored from the by-line just sticks in my head...

if there is one thing rafa has its balls, he has no problem in getting rid of players that dont fit in to his plans - this i really admire! houllier never did anything ballsy in his life.

its friday, so do you reckon there will be anymore developments before we hit the weekend??

Jivin Turkey

~Rebel~ wrote:

Not sure who asked but as for MOTM performances he definately had a few that i can think of, especially the one where he won the game for us with his hattrick. Now i dont know if he actually won it but he def deserved it.

Now correct me if Im wrong but wasnt that the game where we beat WBA 6-0 at Christmas? He hardly "won us the game".

/edit My apologies it was Crystal Palace which we won 3-2. However two of his goals were penalties.

cruiserweight

Baros has had his chances in the first team and not taken them! He is not enough of a tem player IMO and the options that are currently in the squad should be given a chance to see what they can do, Crouch, Cisse, Le Tallec and Morientes all give us different types of options

Just noticed this is the 1000th post in this thread

~Rebel~

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Now correct me if Im wrong but wasnt that the game where we beat WBA 6-0 at Christmas? He hardly "won us the game".

/edit My apologies it was Crystal Palace which we won 3-2. However two of his goals were penalties.

Ya they were penalties but he won them himself. The game wasn't televised but i was listening to it on the radio and all the commentators were saying what a one man show it was, seemed to be him just running and creating everything. There was 1 more clear cut penalties not given that he also earned, but wasn't given as 1 had already been given. Basically im just saying it was a MOTM display where he won us the match. Pretty sure he did get man of the match for it.

<EDIT> Yeah just checked, he did win MOTM

MotM : Milan Baros - his first hat trick for the Reds and a typical Baros performance. He works incredibly hard for the Reds all game and this was well deserved for the lad