Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

cruiserweight · 22-07-2005 11:31am

Baros is being linked with Deportivo La Coruna, more likely to be sold to them than another premiership team IMO

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=12&si=1438045

Pool prime Baros for Deportivo departure
Friday July 22nd 2005

THE agent of Milan Baros has been granted permission to open transfer talks with Deportivo La Coruna as Liverpool's unsubtle attempts to offload the Czech Republic international gather pace.

The 23-year-old has been told he has no future under manager Rafael Benitez and was left behind at the club's Swiss training camp on Tuesday while his colleagues defeated TNS in the Champions League first-round qualifier in Wrexham.

West Ham United have registered an interest in Baros who, despite declaring a determination to remain at Anfield after moves to Valencia and Lyon failed to materialise, is now resigned to his fate at the club he joined for £3.5m from Banik Ostrava in 2001.

Baros is now fourth-choice striker following Peter Crouch's arrival, and he said: "Of course it is not pleasant, but I am still a Liverpool player, I am working hard and I am trying to persuade the coach that I deserve my place in the team.

"We will sit together with the coach and talk about his intentions with me. If he says he does not need me, then we will start solving the problem but nothing is happening now and I am not letting it play on my mind."

The striker, however, would favour a move to Spain's La Liga and his representative Pavel Paska met Deportivo officials yesterday with the blessing of Liverpool.

Deportivo are keen to strengthen their attack, with Alberto Luque destined for Real Madrid and Walter Pandiani seeking a permanent exit from Estadio De Riazor following his loan spell at Birmingham City last season.

A move for Baros could open the possibility of a swap deal involving the Portuguese defender Jorge Andrade, who could act as cover for Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher.

Liverpool remain confident of a deal for Luis Figo, despite his protracted negotiations with Madrid, and have also been linked with Sevilles Daniel Alves, who can operate at right-back or right midfield. As he broadens his hunt for a new centre-back, Benitez insists his new-look Liverpool will put in a serious challenge for the Premiership title.

The Spaniard has welcomed giant new striker Crouch into the ranks at the club's Swiss training camp and expects to field the £7m signing in tomorrow's friendly with Olympiacos in Liechtenstein and next Tuesday's Champions League second qualifying round first leg away to Lithuanian champions Kaunas.

The Anfield chief - with six new signings - now believes he has a squad capable of contesting the title.

He said: "We have more quality to work with now and so I am sure we will do better in the league. That's our idea.

"We have more options for different positions in the team and so the competition for places is going to be strong."

With a deal for Figo still possible, Benitez added: "We probably still need to strengthen certain positions in the squad and that is something we are working on at the moment.

"We knew we needed to improve the quality of the squad and that is what we have done. We needed to strengthen different positions and we're happy with the players we have managed to bring in."

Benitez is more than aware that Kaunas will provide much stronger opposition than Welsh minnows TNS did in the first qualifying round.

He said: "We've had two good games against TNS and they should stand us for the start of the season. We're not at our best yet but the more games we play and the more training we do then the better the physical condition of the players will become.

"The game in Lithuania next week is obviously a big one for us. I don't know too much about them at the moment but we have a scout preparing the reports and we're waiting for them.

"We know from our experience in the TNS games that it's not going to be easy. We'll need to be careful," he added. (© Independent News Service)

Andy Hunter

StickyMcGinty · 22-07-2005 11:47am

yea cruiserwieght, i'd agree, no pint in selling him to direct competition.

would want him pulling a lua lua or anything next season!

Villain · 22-07-2005 11:55am

Oh yes please god, anywhere but Villa.

Guy:Incognito · 22-07-2005 11:59am

irish1 wrote:

Oh yes please god, anywhere but Villa.

Going by last nights result goals arent really the problem.

midget lord · 22-07-2005 12:02pm

VinnyL wrote:

if there is one thing rafa has its balls, he has no problem in getting rid of players that dont fit in to his plans - this i really admire! houllier never did anything ballsy in his life.

Getting rid of Fowler not big enough for you?

StickyMcGinty · 22-07-2005 12:31pm

midget: it was thommo who got rid of fowler, not houllier, houllier didnt have the rocks to do it.

Drag00n79 · 22-07-2005 12:33pm

I cannot for the life of me see Baros going to Villa or any club which is not in at least the UEFA Cup next season.

Drag00n79 · 22-07-2005 12:36pm

I would be very happy if we could arrange that swap deal for Baros with Andrade.

StickyMcGinty · 22-07-2005 12:38pm

i dont really rate andrade to be honest, watched him in la liga this year and i didnt think too much of him.

i'd be much happier with milito, gallas, or even upson

Drag00n79 · 22-07-2005 12:53pm

VinnyL wrote:

i dont really rate andrade to be honest, watched him in la liga this year and i didnt think too much of him. i'd be much happier with milito, gallas, or even upson

I think he's a fine player — has pace, distributes well and does not panic. Tbh if we get him, I don't think he will be "acting as cover" for Sami, it will be Andrade and Carra at the back.

Davei141 · 22-07-2005 12:58pm

We better not give baros away for some pathetic 5 million, the amount of time liverpool give away players on the free or for knock down prices annoys me so much, some of those players could fetch some money.

Culchie · 22-07-2005 1:19pm

Davei141 wrote:

We better not give baros away for some pathetic 5 million, the amount of time liverpool give away players on the free or for knock down prices annoys me so much, some of those players could fetch some money.

Any club would be mad to pay more for him. He's a lazy moody broody selfish so and so.

He plays well once every 2 years in the Euro Championships or World Cup.

Not doubting his unrealised potential, but he's a liability.

5m is a great price for him

Shred · 22-07-2005 1:37pm

Culchie wrote:

Any club would be mad to pay more for him. He's a lazy moody broody selfish so and so.

Now whatever else you can say about Baros he certainly isn't lazy! There's very few players in the Liverpool team with a higher work rate, he will keep running at defenders and harrasing them for 90 minutes (albeit with very little end product lately).

midget lord · 22-07-2005 2:34pm

VinnyL wrote:

midget: it was thommo who got rid of fowler, not houllier, houllier didnt have the rocks to do it.

You reckon the assistant manager over-ruled the team manager?

Afraid not vin. GH was the manager so its his shout whether to get rid or not.

That was the bravest move by a liverpool manager in a long time.

p.pete · 22-07-2005 2:42pm

As far as I remember there was several bustups before fowler left - involving Thompson and not GH who was probably sitting back. Thompson may not have made the announcement but without him Fowler would still be there getting away with murder.

tel922001 · 22-07-2005 2:47pm

Culchie wrote:

Any club would be mad to pay more for him. He's a lazy moody broody selfish so and so.

He plays well once every 2 years in the Euro Championships or World Cup.

Not doubting his unrealised potential, but he's a liability.

5m is a great price for him

liverpool could easily get 7 maybe 8m for him , if he does go up for sale ul be surprised how much it will rise from the first offer till he is sold , he cant go for 5 million , thats a ridiculous price for him

StickyMcGinty · 22-07-2005 2:56pm

midget lord wrote:

You reckon the assistant manager over-ruled the team manager?

Afraid not vin. GH was the manager so its his shout whether to get rid or not.

That was the bravest move by a liverpool manager in a long time.

midget, GH had a heart attack and thommo had full reign, did a google on it earlier to make sure, casue i knew you'd pick up on it if i was wrong

midget lord · 22-07-2005 3:47pm

This is completely off topic, but nevertheless. GH did have the heart op, but the final say still would have been his. Fowler fell out with thommo but the decision to get rid was ged's.

I dont like people dissin' Ged, he done well with liverpool, just look at 2001 and in the subsequent season we had the highest points total of a premier league runner up since it was cut to 20 teams. He did make some errors in the transfer market, but only the raffatollah is immune to bad transfer dealings

redspider · 22-07-2005 4:45pm

Culchie wrote:

Baros, 5m is a great price for him

This is where I have a problem with the Crouch deal. We have Baros, we buy Crouch for 7m and we sell Baros for 5m !?!? That to me does not make sense. Last season, Crouch was bought for 2m, a mere 2m, and Baros arguably after Euro 2004 would have sold for 10m. Thats a net change of -10m against Liverpool. The players concerned may have changed their output, but only slightly in one season, and not by an amount of 10m, surely?

One thing about Crouch, his form over the years has been very patchy. He has been at a lot of clubs for a player so young. This is a sign that many managers have had difficulty setting up a system that exploits his natural skills. I for one cant see Liverpool playing with the same system for:

Cisse + Morientes
Cisse/Morientes + Crouch

so that will mean two different systems. We'll have to see if these systems work out or not, but I cant see any system with Crouch in it being hugely entertaining for fans if it involves crosses from deep or from the half-way line (since we dont have a winger anyway!).

We are going to need Gonzalez to return from injury and turn out like a young-Figo.

redspider

ps: Bannor, another point you mentioned a while back was that Le Tallec had played his last game for Liverpool. What factor caused Benitez to change his mind, as for now, it looks like he is keeping him in the squad?

ps2: good to see this thread has gone over the 1000 posts

Drag00n79 · 22-07-2005 4:55pm

Where is the figure of £5m after coming out of. If there is a swap deal with Andrade he is worth more than £5m for starters.

Red Spider wrote:

so that will mean two different systems. We'll have to see if these systems work out or not, but I cant see any system with Crouch in it being hugely entertaining for fans if it involves crosses from deep or from the half-way line (since we dont have a winger anyway!).

I think most fans would expect Rafa to employ more than one or two systems during the season. Zenden has been playing fine on the left in the early matches. I don't think I have ever seen any player get a much stick as Peter Crouch — before he has even kicked a ball for the club! Give the guy a break!

Davei141 · 22-07-2005 4:59pm

Imagine saying you cant play attractive football with a player like crouch in the team, id say the czech team and nation would beg to differ.

PHB · 22-07-2005 5:02pm

liverpool could easily get 7 maybe 8m for him , if he does go up for sale ul be surprised how much it will rise from the first offer till he is sold , he cant go for 5 million , thats a ridiculous price for him

Name me a club who would give that for Baros.

Jivin Turkey · 22-07-2005 5:07pm

redspider wrote:

One thing about Crouch, his form over the years has been very patchy. He has been at a lot of clubs for a player so young. This is a sign that many managers have had difficulty setting up a system that exploits his natural skills.

This is not true. He has been at so many clubs because he has steadily improved the grade he has played at:

QPR (Div 2)
Portsmouth (Div 1)
Villa (Prem)
Norwich (Div 1, on loan)
Southampton (Prem, subsequently sold on relegation)

The only reason he was frozen out at Villa was following a poor season under Graham Taylor (which I wouldnt begrude anyone) and a change of management. Most Villa fans Ive spoken to speak reasonably well of him. He has also scored goals every where he has gone (bar a poor 02/03 season).

Culchie · 22-07-2005 5:07pm

PHB wrote:

Name me a club who would give that for Baros.

I agree, especially as he seems keen to leave, kinda reduces the bargaining power.

I personally think Crouch is going to be a great signing for Liverpool (even if they did pay OTT). He will bring some sort of focus to their attack.

I foresee seeing the best of Riise down the wings, flashing in crosses and loads of diving headers, and knock downs for Morientes.

LOL, you'd swear I support Liverpool !

Jivin Turkey · 22-07-2005 5:08pm

PHB wrote:

Name me a club who would give that for Baros.

Reports are that they have already turned down two bids of 10 and 12 million Euro respectively. They are holding out for 15M.

Shred · 22-07-2005 5:21pm

€15m? Roughly the same price Madrid are reportedly seeking for Owen

PHB · 23-07-2005 5:52pm

Figo ain't coming:

Liverpool and Inter Milan target Luis Figo has admitted he is certain to stay at Real Madrid.
Figo seemed set to leave the Spanish club before Real reportedly started demanding a fee for the 32-year-old winger who has a year left on his deal.

"It's difficult for a player," said Figo after his penalty gave Real a 3-2 win over China's Beijing Guo'an.

"I know I'm not first or second choice. But I want to see out my contract. I will do all I can for my club."

Former world footballer of the year and Portugal international Figo came on for Michael Owen against Beijing Guo'an.

Owen had started the game on the right wing

---

Baros seems to want to stay:

Liverpool striker Milan Baros has insisted that he wants to stay at the club, despite interest from West Ham.
The arrival of Peter Crouch has pushed Baros further down the pecking order at Anfield, with manager Rafael Benitez admitting the Czech could be sold.

"Of course it is not pleasant, but I am still a Liverpool player. I am working hard and trying to persuade the coach I deserve my place in the team," he said.

"We will sit together and talk about his intentions with me."

"If he says he does not need me, then we will start solving the problem, but nothing is happening now and I am not letting it play on my mind."

The 23-year-old's future looks set to be decided next week when he and his agent are due to meet Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry.

The £7m signing of Crouch was Benitez' sixth move into the transfer market so far this summer.

Jose Reina, Boudewijn Zenden, Momo Sissoko, Mark Gonzalez and Antonio Barragan have also arrived at Anfield.

The next priority appears to be a centre-back, but Benitez continues to meet resistance from Real Zaragoza in his bid to sign Argentine defender Gabriel Milito.

That deal has become even more complicated, with the Spanish club demanding £10m and offering their centre-back a new deal to match the wages Liverpool were prepared to pay.

Benitez is believed to have responded by turning his attention to Sevilla utility defender Daniel Alves, with Real Madrid's Walter Samuel and Deportivo La Coruna's Jorge Andrade also linked.

"We probably still need to strengthen certain positions in the squad and that is something we are working on at the moment," said Benitez.

Benitez is confident the rebuilding process at Liverpool will allow them to mount a serious Premiership challenge next season.

"We have more quality to work with now and so I am sure we will do better in the league," he said.

"We have more options for different positions in the team and so the competition for places is going to be strong."

mada999 · 23-07-2005 6:13pm

cisse and crouch to start tonight....hopefully the beginning of a great partnership! hope crouchy scores!

Liverpool will start against Olympiacos as follows:

Carson
Josemi
Hyypia
Medjani
Riise
Potter
Hamann
Gerrard
Garcia
Crouch
Cisse

Subs:

Carragher
Whitbread
Warnock
Alonso
Le Tallec
Sissoko
Zenden
Morientes
Baros

looking forward to watchin' it!
come on the pool!

Chucky the tree · 23-07-2005 6:16pm

what channel is it on?

Jivin Turkey · 23-07-2005 6:18pm

Channel 5

mada999 · 23-07-2005 6:28pm

liverpoolfc.tv . . . .

Dub13 · 23-07-2005 7:14pm

Its good to see Potter starting a few games in pre season.....

el rabitos · 23-07-2005 7:15pm

good to see medjani playing, hopefully one of our french players bought because of "potential" actually comes through and challenges for a first team place week in week out, plus he's a centre back, which is whats needed

Hydromonkey · 23-07-2005 7:21pm

Good article on what Crouch could bring to Liverpool:

Rafa's Permutations: Variety, the Spice of Anfield
Friday July 22 2005

By Paul Tomkins

Using the word 'spice' in conjunction with Liverpool, and it not being an insult: whatever is the world coming to? Well, one thing's for certain: Peter Crouch won't miss any training sessions on account of prior-arranged Armani modelling assignments.

Crouch is the latest addition to a squad which is extremely rich on variety. Benítez is an ideas man, and there's nothing worse, as fans, than seeing a team which has run out of ideas. Radically disparate options will see that it's one problem the Reds won't encounter.

In every area of the pitch the manager can now shuffle his pack, and not just change the players from game to game, but totally alter the problems he presents the opposition during a game. Cover is still needed at the back, but defence is the one area where you may occasionally rest a player, but not look to rotate from game to game.

In midfield, there are all sorts of permutations, with ten top-class players vying for positions, and with nearly all of them versatile enough to assume different roles.

Benítez is still looking for a right-sided wide man who can beat a player and get a cross in, and that's not really Luis Garcia's game (he prefers to drift inside to find space in the box, more like Freddie Ljungberg). Garcia will still start games out wide on the right, as he has proved his effectiveness there, but Rafa wants the option of someone like Figo, to run with the ball and make telling deliveries either from deep, or from the byline.

But it is in the striking permutations where most variety can be found. There are so many alternatives, and only one of the players will feature solely as an out-and-out frontman, and that's Crouch. The others will either play just off of him, or in wide positions.

Morientes and Crouch

To me, Morientes appears a cross between John Aldridge and Peter Beardsley. Like Aldridge, he's not a giant but is great at attacking crosses, and is a far-from-fast poacher of goals; however, he is also like Beardsley in the way he drops deep, twists and turns and looks to feed passes through (the role he played at Monaco).

I believe we will see these two lining up together with Crouch the target man, and Morientes the floating, roaming schemer. And that will suit El Moro, as he's not a physical player, despite his misleading reputation. He's cleverer than he is strong.

The difference between Crouch and Morientes is that Morientes, even though he's technically as good a header of the ball as there is, needs a near-perfect cross to attack, from which point he is devastating. He is not great target man. Crouch can turn even a poor cross into meat and drink.

What Crouch will do is occupy the thoughts of defenders, so when a cross comes in from Zenden, Gerrard, Gonzales, Alonso, Kewell (if...) and hopefully Figo, defenders will panic. It is then that Morientes can find a little more time and space to arrive into the box and attack the cross, rather than be stationary around the penalty spot and muscled off the ball.

If you don't believe me, or understand what I am getting at, go and watch the winning goal from Fratton Park last season: taller striker (Morientes) marked tightly, cross comes in, smaller striker (Garcia) arrives late to power home header while the defenders are focusing on Morientes. If it works for a midget not famed for his heading alongside a far-from gigantic striker, you can imagine the effect if Crouch is the one being marked and holding the defenders' concentration and Morientes the one arriving into the box.

The difference is that Crouch, even if tightly marked, can win flick-ons from most kinds of ball into the box - long ball, diagonal ball, hopeful cross, sublime whipped delivery from out wide - and that's when you'll see Morientes, Cissé, and the midfielders like Gerrard, Garcia and Zenden following in to strike at goal.

Chelsea played some lovely football last season, but one of their most successful tactics was the long ball to Drogba, from which point their tricky and attacking midfielders (Duff, Cole, Robben, Lampard) picked up the loose ends, and either played intricate passes on the edge of the area to work an opening, or had a pop at goal.

Gerrard, already on fire, will love playing with Crouch. While Milan Baros is a great individual, Gerrard's runs were often ignored by the Czech, as he received the ball and instead of laying off the easy pass, he turned and ran into what were often blind alleys. The penalty that arose from these two in Istanbul was more of the exception to the rule. But it's something Crouch is very good at: laying the ball back to the onrushing midfielder.

Crouch has a great touch full stop, be it for a big man or a midget. Again, get the season DVD out and look at his cushioned pass for Prutton to score the first goal against us at St Mary's: back to goal, and a Bergkamp-esque steering of the ball.

Interestingly, Crouch averages a phenomenal goal every two games under Harry Redknapp, both at Pompey in the old First Division, and in the Premiership at their south coast neighbours. Redknapp is a canny man-manager, who likes his teams to play passing football. It was only Graham Taylor, purveyor of non-stop direct football, who could not get the best out of Crouch.

The beanpole striker (who must despise the word beanpole) is often best with the ball played into his body, where he can use his long legs to hook a pass into space. Being an awkward customer, he can use his body to good effect, even though he has less meat on him than an anorexic supermodel. As a result he also gets fouled a lot, so that should mean lots of freekicks in and around the box, but like Heskey at his best, some referees foolishly have no sympathy for a big player being kicked to pieces.

Anyone still doubting the quality of Crouch's touch need only look at his side-footed volleyed goals against Boro and Norwich: not wishing to compare him with the best, but Robbie Fowler in his pomp would not have finished them with any more style.

The long and the short of it

For Morientes playing off of Crouch, you can also read Luis Garcia. The diminutive Spaniard will not be arriving late to head home many chances like that one at Pompey, but he will have the perfect partner in Crouch. Either El Moro or Luis Garcia can play behind Crouch, and use the time and space that clever players find in the 'hole' to make things happen.

Luis Garcia can score goals, as we saw last season; and as we saw last night against TNS, play a delightful pass for someone to tuck home.

Cissé and Crouch

The quickest, and the tallest. Do you defend on the halfway line to keep Crouch well out of the area, but risk leaving 50 yards of space for Cissé (or even Sinama-Pongolle) to devour?

Or, fearing Cissé's turbocharger, do you defend so deep that you allow Crouch carte blanche in the area? If you split the difference, then that still leaves enough space for Cissé to run into, and Crouch is close enough to goal to make a nuisance of himself.

Crouch and Cissé both possess one of the two things defenders hate most: freakish height that makes winning headers a near- impossibility, and searing pace that scares the living crap out of them.

For Crouch to succeed, he's going to need to find his confidence pretty quickly, to win over the sceptics, and to avoid a vicious circle of poor showings only deepening the resentment from those who consider him too weak, leading to booing, and destroying any chance of the player feeling wanted. But he's used to being laughed at, and written off. The older he gets, the easier he will find it to cope with. He's never been under more pressure, but he's never had such a great manager, and such talented teammates.

Cissé and Le Tallec

Cissé also seems to be developing a good understanding with Le Tallec, who is another who is happiest behind the front man. For the French youth team, Le Tallec's skill was the first-time 'Dalglish' pass to his 'Rush' -- Sinama-Pongolle (who seems to have been forgotten, given his injury).

In the last two games, Le Tallec has reprised the role with another speedy Frenchman, and played some superb first-time passes for Cissé to run onto; on two of the three occasions Cissé scored, and on the third only a decent save by the keeper with his feet denied him.

We are starting to see signs of Le Tallec's class, but it might be a year or two before he feels at home in the first team. We are starting to see signs of him growing into his role, and now Benítez is using him in his best position, he can only improve -- but 20 is still very young for first-team player who does not have great pace to mask any deficiencies in his (still developing) understanding of the game.

The arrival of Crouch means there should never be a dull moment at Anfield this season. Whoever starts any given game for the Reds, the opposition defence can be disturbed from their rhythm by the arrival, from the bench, of radical alternatives.

Variety really is the spice of football.

eirebhoy · 23-07-2005 7:51pm

Any streams for this match? Currently 1-1, Garcia then Rivaldo.

Davei141 · 23-07-2005 8:23pm

4-1 now [URL=mms://213.8.106.61/1041871 ]mms://213.8.106.61/1041871 [/URL] quality isnt the best but better than nothing, baros scored the 4th.

Davei141 · 23-07-2005 8:46pm

No coordination between the back four...4-3

zokrez · 23-07-2005 9:07pm

4-1 now mms://213.8.106.61/1041871 quality isnt the best but better than nothing, baros scored the 4th.

dave where does one do a search for links / stream for a live game ? Are they pretty available for all games. The quality is doable. How does the quality compare to the eseason ticket on .tv ?

eirebhoy · 23-07-2005 9:43pm

Zakrze wrote:

dave where does one do a search for links / stream for a live game ? Are they pretty available for all games. The quality is doable. How does the quality compare to the eseason ticket on .tv ?

I've been a member of a site called freefooty.org for a few months and they can get you links for almost any televised game. They have recently set up their own server and will be showing all kind of sports. Only about 20 people have donated so far and the less people watching, the less buffering. These streams will be equal to the quality of an official TV stream or official club stream. Anyway, the /pay part of their site is only up 24 hours now:
http://www.freefooty.org/pay/

£5.70 a year. Well worth it. Saves you splashing out for the likes of Premiership Plus or even Sky Sports.

Davei141 · 23-07-2005 11:24pm

Try the football4less forums

el rabitos · 24-07-2005 12:17am

i didnt see the match myself, but the official sites match report seems to be singing the praises of baros. looks like he's bucking up his game to make it harder for benitez to let him go.

Shred · 24-07-2005 3:57am

Aye, just home and watched the highlights from the game. Baros setup Morientes for Liverpool's 2nd (after Garcia had scored the opener, which in turn was setup by Crouch) and then scored two more himself. He looked very lively and he's certainly either putting himself in the shop window or giving Benitez something to think about

Cyrus · 24-07-2005 9:51am

did baros and crouch play together at any stage?

somano · 24-07-2005 10:07am

No. They played a half each. They played about 18 players. Dont recall Dudek coming on.

Shred · 24-07-2005 12:28pm

No Dudek didn't come on but Carson didn't have a good second half at all

Thanx 4 The Fish · 24-07-2005 12:41pm

Carson did look a bit shaky alright, granted he is a young lad but his decision making was poor last night. Hopefully he will get a bit more experience and build his confidence, especially if he is sent on loan..