Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

el rabitos

benitez needs to sell dudek to be honest, his being there will do nothing to help with developing scott carson.

seeing him on the pitch doesnt inspire me with confidence, especially when him and traore are in the same team.

Thanx 4 The Fish

eirebhoy wrote:

Dudek wasn't even on the bench.

Dudek was on the bench, saw him warming up too, he was warming up at half time too, I think that he expected to get a run too.

I would love to see Dudek challenge for a position but it is unlikely, three keepers is not too many though, one injury to either Carson or Pepe will leave the pool with no backup what with Kirkland on loan.

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

benitez needs to sell dudek to be honest, his being there will do nothing to help with developing scott carson.

seeing him on the pitch doesnt inspire me with confidence, especially when him and traore are in the same team.

I would much rather have Dudek on the pitch over Carson. From what Ive seen from him he does not look promising. Granted he is young but he needs to develop much much more and he is not going to do that from the bench at Liverpool.

He should be loaned out, Dudek is more than adequate cover at GK.

Chucky the tree

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I would much rather have Dudek on the pitch over Carson. From what Ive seen from him he does not look promising. Granted he is young but he needs to develop much much more and he is not going to do that from the bench at Liverpool.

He should be loaned out, Dudek is more than adequate cover at GK.

Nah, time for dudek to go. At least we will get a bit of money for him. No point in loaning carson aswell. Carson will be a useful number 2, nothing more.

Jivin Turkey

Chucky the tree wrote:

Nah, time for dudek to go. At least we will get a bit of money for him. No point in loaning carson aswell. Carson will be a useful number 2, nothing more.

If someone came in for an offer for Dudek Id be happy to sell, but he has stated he wants to fight for his place and IMO hes is a much better option than Carson.

Carson needs to get games to develop, not just sparing appearances from the bench. Loaning him is the best option.

Chucky the tree

Jivin Turkey wrote:

If someone came in for an offer for Dudek Id be happy to sell, but he has stated he wants to fight for his place and IMO hes is a much better option than Carson.

Carson needs to get games to develop, not just sparing appearances from the bench. Loaning him is the best option.

i think some top quality coaching is needed. This will iron out his mistakes, then next season he should be loaned out.

By treating the dudek the way rafa is, he is opening the door to offers.

el rabitos

i dont think carson was bought or came to liverpool with the intention of him being liverpools number 2 keeper for the next 10 years

carsons arrival should have been the end of dudeks liverpool carreer, nevermind reina. dudek got lucky to be back in the team because of kirklands injurys

his performance over 90 minutes in the champions lge final was no good at all,
a couple of saved penalties and a miracle save in the final wont get us back the 15 points or so his errors cost us over last season. too many fumbles and david james like performances for me

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

i dont think carson was bought or came to liverpool with the intention of him being liverpools number 2 keeper for the next 10 years

carsons arrival should have been the end of dudeks liverpool carreer, nevermind reina. dudek got lucky to be back in the team because of kirklands injurys

his performance over 90 minutes in the champions lge final was no good at all,
a couple of saved penalties and a miracle save in the final wont get us back the 15 points or so his errors cost us over last season. too many fumbles and david james like performances for me

Carson's errors to games ratio is far higher than Dudek's.

Carson has shown me nothing to convince me that he of Premier League standard yet.

el rabitos

"Carson's errors to games ratio is far higher than Dudek's.

Carson has shown me nothing to convince me that he of Premier League standard yet."

yes, but carson isnt even 20 yet and dudek is past 30. personally i think carson did great in the champions league against juve, he made 1 error, and for a guy so young and in a match so big alot of keepers will never see, i think he did well.

he has alot more going for him than dudek

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

yes, but carson isnt even 20 yet and dudek is past 30. personally i think carson did great in the champions league against juve, he made 1 error, and for a guy so young and in a match so big alot of keepers will never see, i think he did well.

A couple of decent saves does not make up for a calamitous error. He was hardly tested that much by a lacklustre Juve side.

He also let in a speculative shot from Laurent Robert fairly softly which resulted in a 1-0 defeat at Newcastle.

el rabitos wrote:

he has alot more going for him than dudek

While this may be true, at the moment Dudek is a better keeper. I would much rather him on the bench over Carson.

Carson needs games and he is not going to get them at Liverpool. Loan him out and let him rise to the potential.

somano

Carson got a CL medal. Gas isnt it. Anyone know the final full list of medallists ?

el rabitos

A couple of decent saves does not make up for a calamitous error

thats the story of dudeks liverpool career ffs

at the moment Dudek is a better keeper. I would much rather him on the bench over Carson

personally, i dont agree, doesnt look like beintez does either tbh

sell him now while we could still get a couple of million says me

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

thats the story of dudeks liverpool career ffs

It applies more so to Carson. Dudek has put in enough good performances for Liverpool but alas his LFC career will be remembered for errors in high profile games. Thats the main problem, most of his errors have been in "bigger" games and hence got more exposure. He is a far better keeper than he gets credit for.

el rabitos wrote:

personally, i dont agree, doesnt look like beintez does either tbh

Benetiz does think hes a better keeper. Hence why he started him ahead of Carson last year.

Benetiz probably thinks that it makes more sense in the long term to hold onto Carson as he is 19 and Dudek is in his 30s.

I cant understand how you could think Carson is a better keeper based on 5 performances, of which two he made errors that led to goals. I dont recall him being particularly good in any game either.

el rabitos wrote:

sell him now while we could still get a couple of million says me

Im not adverse to selling him. But if he stays he should be the No.2 ahead of Carson.

el rabitos

Benetiz probably thinks that it makes more sense in the long term to hold onto Carson as he is 19 and Dudek is in his 30s.

thats my whole point.

i dont care what team dudek makes his howlers against, but he makes the most basic errors a keeper can make. i wouldnt be worried about him saving a peno or a free kick or some spectacular shot....my heart stops when someone hits a shot along the ground and it goes under his legs or it bounces off him.

a keeper should be hitting his prime between 28 - 35....and to be honest about it, dudek hasnt looked anything like a keeper his age should. i dont think he inspires anyone with confidence.

Im not adverse to selling him. But if he stays he should be the No.2 ahead of Carson.

i agree. and thats the exact reason why he has to go. carson needs every game he can get

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

thats my whole point.

I understand. But I still reckon that Dudek is currently a better keeper than Carson.

el rabitos wrote:

i agree. and thats the exact reason why he has to go. carson needs every game he can get

I think Carson would be better off getting loaned out. They probably should have bought him but left him at Leeds, at least to the end of the season. He is not going to develop with a couple of CC games a year plus possibly two or three league appearances.

el rabitos

if i thought dudek had a hope of getting back the no.1 slot in the team, then yeah i wouldnt mind him staying. but i dont think rafa see's him as his no.1 keeper, plus i think benitez would prefer to have an english player as his 2nd choice

on the milan baros issue, i'd like to see benitez show some faith in him and put him in the squad for tuesdays game.

either way, i'm guessing it doesnt feel great to be baros or dudek at the moment, being frozen out like that

Necronomicon

Well, Dudek didn't do himself any harm with his performance in the CL Final, talk about putting yourself in the shop window.

TheMonster

Necromomicon wrote:

Well, Dudek didn't do himself any harm with his performance in the CL Final, talk about putting yourself in the shop window.

Most people want more than a good keeper, they want a consistent error free one, no doubtin Dudeks ability but he is not error free and consistent.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well Dudek has had some good games, I think as a number two he would be alright although obviously he would not be too happy about it. He would be better off himself jetting off elsewhere but the pool could do worse than have him as a no. 2.

redspider

GOALIE
In terms of the Goalie debate, Benitez has Reina as no.1, and Dudek could be sold, but that is a risk if Liverpool get too many injuries. Whilst Carson does have raw talent, he is prone to errors which is lethal in the GK position. I'd say at the moment Benitez is hedging his bets. If a big offer or player swap deal involving Dudek comes up, he will take it. If not, he will keep him as he is a "proven" reserve keeper (ie: we know what we will get) and have both Carson and Dudek as no.2. Not even Benitez knows how Reina will perform in the big games, and a couple of big errors could see him and Carson both taking rests. Its not too long ago that Kirkland was put in the no.1 slot only to lose it through injury and some dodgy performances. There are very few Yashin's about and it is imperative to have 3 keepers, so Dudek is likely to stay imo.


BAROS
Back to the Crouch v Baros debate. The 4-3 win over Olympiacos just showed how good Baros can be, as I and some others have been advocating. A quick report on the game from liverpoolfc.tv:

"If Peter Crouch's arrival on Merseyside was supposed to spell the end of the Anfield dream for Milan Baros, someone must have forgotten to tell the Czech international. While Crouch was the undisputed star of the first-half - going close on two occasions and setting up Luis Garcia's opener with a great run into the box after 31 minutes - there was no doubting Baros was the liveliest player on the pitch after the interval. The Liverpool No.5, linked by the media with a move away from Anfield all summer, entered the pitch after half-time with the scores level after Rivaldo had cancelled out Garcia's opening goal on 40 minutes, and then set about single-handedly taking the game to the Greeks. Within minutes of being on the pitch, Baros had set Fernando Morientes up to slot home Liverpool's second and then he got in on the act, twice rounding the 'keeper to double our lead during the space of six electrifying second-half minutes. Liverpool's lead could have been extended further still when Baros again found Morientes with a cross from the right only for Erwin Lemmens to dive low to block the Spaniard's shot. We've always known Milan Baros was capable of putting the ball in the back of the net but tonight he demonstrated that maybe, just maybe, he's now started to use his head a bit more and find his team-mates in space rather than trying to beat the world on his own. "

I've read that Baros is being linked with a move to Villa for 5.5m. That is not much and less than Crouch. But one thing about this whole situation I now find unusual is as follows. Benitez was playing Baros in the friendlies before Crouch arrived. OK, you might say, if he wants to sell him he needs to put him in the shop window, perhaps. But that is weak in itself since the world knows what Baros can do. But then when Crouch arrives, you would think that would be it for Benitez, drop him and sell him on to the highest bidder. But no, Benitez plays him for a full 45 mins. This to me looks as if Benitez is thinking about keeping him. If a huge deal comes in he would sell him, probably, but with that not looking likely, is he keeping him part of his plans, and having a fired-up front line of Baros and Crouch and Morientes and Garcia and Cisse all vying for places and all part of a healthy set-up?

If all these players are fit to play, Benitez will have some very unhappy campers, most likely Baros. If Benitez is serious about keeping him, he may opt for a squad rotation system. With so many games, that may keep all of them happy. But that will depend on what happens on the pitch. If Baros gets a hat-trick or a couple or someone else does and is dropped, they wont be happy. Team play could be affected, etc. Of course, is this whole thing a ruse by Benitez? Is he "pretending" to want to keep Baros as part of the plan to up his value in a sale? Perhaps. Baros wont play in the CL matches, so is clearly sellable, and the only forward "for sale".

One thing I think we can all agree on with Benitez, it sure is difficult to tell whats going on in his mind.

Btw, how did Zenden play? Any judgements on him so far? Did we get a brilliant player or just another journey-man?

redspider

Culchie

Dudek never made a mistake for Liverpool until 'that match' V united, he was incredibly consistent before that.

That knocked his confidence big time, but the CL final should have restored it.

I think Dudek is a brilliant keeper myself. Been through a rough patch, but if he moves on (or given another chance by Liverpool), he will prove his class again.

redspider

redspider wrote:

Its 5-3-2, with wing-backs, probaby played with Finnan and Riise rather than Garcia and Zenden. Some managers play this formation in away games, its safer and more defensive. It was popular some seasons back.

Did any of you catch Sacar Gold on TG4 over the weekend? It was the Liverpool 4-3 win against Newcastle. A defeat that continued Newcastle on a downward spiral and their eventual loss of the league title to Man U. Was it 1995 or 1996?

You may have noticed that Liverpool played with a 5-3-2 formation. The wing-backs being Jason McAteer on the right side, and Rob Jones on the left, although Jones was more a conventional left back and offered little going forward usually. Jason, being a converted winger offered a lot more, but was dodgy at times when defending, such as against Ginola. The three centre backs were Wright, Scales and Razor Ruddock. I think that without Razor and a more conventional 4-4-2 system, which is what Man U were playing, Liverpool would have had a very good chance of winning the league that year, exploiting the skills of MacManaman and Fowler and Barnes, whilst some stability and passing with Redknapp. They also should have won the FA Cup final that year, which the "spice boys" dominated in terms of chances.

The teams shape was something like:

---

James

---

---- Scales --- Wright --- Ruddock

---

McAteer

---

Jones

---

Barnes

---

Redknapp

---

---

( MacManaman roaming )

---

---

Fowler

---

Collymore

---

No manager selects such a system these days. On occasion, a manager will go for a 5-4-1, with 5 defenders, 2 defensive midfielder, in an aim to get a draw or sneak a win with a goal from a set-play.

But one thing you can say about Roy Evan's selection, it was attacking and filled with creative players, apart from Scales, Wright and Ruddock. Little wonder that games endd up 4-3 and little wonder that Liverpool failed to win a trophy.

redspider

stevoslice

that was some game alright, pool v newc games were usually legendary anyways

woodyg

Rush to Barnes to Rush to Barnes
out to COLLYMORE he's won it!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Looks like Figo is on his way again, would rather that sombody just told him that there has been enough Fncking about and to make his mind up. I would be happy with a good season out of him but if he did not join us I would not be all that disappointed.

jcoote

i feel like rafa should be trying to build a team for the future and not just for this season...figo is a deadly player but he's nearly over the hill and thats no good next year or the year after

~Rebel~

..he is building a team for the future..Sissoko, Gonzalez, crouch, potter+whitbred+midjani getting games under their belts (all under 25), sure even zenden has 3 years at his peak left. Figo is one player he's just signing for an immediate impact and to have his influence around the place. Despite what everyones saying about him being a primadonna i cant see where they're coming up with this. He does regular charity work and if nothing else - he's chosing to play for liverpool for far far less money then he could get elsewhere. does this not show desire to wear the jersey? Its not as easy as everyone thnks to move y'know. Imagine if you had to just up sticks and drag you're family to spain. im sure it sounds wonderful in theory but in practice its not an easy thing to do when you can just stay and earn megamoney for doing nothing.

tel922001

http://www.lfconline.com/news/loadfeat.asp?cid=EDZ4&id=230833

Im sure alot of other liverpool fans feel the same as this guy hes talkin sense about baros

~Rebel~

Bit of a mixed interview here, but seems to suggest that baros definately has the potential of staying. As i've said manies the time beforehand i would like hi, to stay. He was thrown into the number 1 striking slot prematurely last season and crumbled under the pressure after half a great season. Just was out of his depth, which you cant blame him for, had only been a bit part previous seasons and then suddenly he was the only one scoring goals. He was meant to be 3rd choice last year behind cisse and owen after all. So, again imo, give him a slightly less pressure filled role, still a good number of starts and appearances and he'll thrive!

Benitez behind Baros

Liverpool managed Rafa Benitez has insisted that Milan Baros is still in his plans, amid continuing speculation over his future at Anfield.

The Czech Republic striker has been the subject of growing media speculation as talk persists of a move away from Anfield.

Peter Crouch's arrival has taken Liverpool's tally of top strikers up to four, and it is thought Baros is at the bottom of the pile.

Baros has been quoted in the Czech press at times saying that he would leave Anfield if he did not get regular first team action, and he has been linked with moves to Aston Villa and West Ham along with Valencia in Spain.

Benitez is with his team in Lithuania ahead of their UEFA Champions League qualifier against FBK Kaunas on Tuesday, and has insisted that Baros is still in his plans.

"I'm thinking about tomorrow, not offers," said Benitez about talk of Villa's interest.

Baros has not yet played in the Champions League, which has added to the speculation that he is to be sold.

"I will see tomorrow if he plays or not," added Benitez. "If he plays or doesn't play it will be the same.

"We're thinking about the future. He's a good player and he's our player. He's here and he's in the squad and has possibilities for tomorrow."

Benitez dismissed talk of Baros being unhappy, insisting that he was not causing unrest in the camp.

"He's happy now. You see the player in training, he is training really well and he scored two goals the other day and played in a very good way.

"As a player, if you play and score goals you must be happy."

Asked if Baros would be seen in a Liverpool shirt at the start of the Premiership season, a cagey Benitez replied: "I want to see him tomorrow."

jcoote

i just don't see the point in buying a player and then having to replace him so soon

PHB

Because he will be there for one season, and thus can play for one season, maybe even two

Culchie

Figo is true world class player, he'll put plenty balls on Crouchs sallynoggin.

Sell a good few shirts as well !

~Rebel~

Ya exactly. we have several players who can play in that position already, gonzalez, zenden, kewell, garcia, le tallec, pongolle, potter. While it might not be any of their favourites they can all perform well there. Figo coming would only aid that. He'd be an inspiration to everyone and who better to show your up and coming players how to play on the right wing then the best right winger in the world of the past decade! And the best thing? If he comes - we wont even be paying for him! worst case scenario he comes and helps out the young lads gives everyone a bit of a boast to have a legend around the place and performs ok (lets face it, he's not going to do any worse then being ok) and collects his not completely insane wages (about 55k i think). Nunez successfully completed the collecting wages part of that last year and thats it, personally id prefer we pay a bit extra wages for someone who can actually play football. On the other hand, he could prove to be fantastic. I watch spanish football every chance i get as well as all the charity matches he's in (i know not the best thing to judge someone on but they def show hes still got it) and he's still a class act. Strong on the ball, a little sluggish at times, but dedicated and technically a class act. Its basically a win win situation.

StickyMcGinty

on football365 today....

Milan Baros will sign for Aston Villa for £7m

from the transfer rumour section though, it aint gospel!

Culchie

Figo's 'sluggish' will still have Gary Neville, John O'Shea and the like dirtying thier socks

Figo's 'last game for Portugal' in Euro 2004, he was magic that night.

He will put electric into Anfield, first player to do that for many a year. Can only benefit the team and the positive vibes.

I like what Benetiz is putting together... (and I'm a flipping neutral)

stevoslice

On Baros: -

Last season he was the ninth most effective Premiership striker on a ratio of goals-per-minutes on the pitch - Crouch will do well to match that, whatever Baros' supposed limitations are

looks like he didn't do as badly as is claimed from here

Drag00n79

All the sites now saying Figo to Inter is a dead cert

woodyg

we managed to actually off-load Nunez
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=294312
wonders never sease

p.pete

And they're claiming to be excited to get him

emc2

woodyg wrote:

we managed to actually off-load Nunez
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=294312
wonders never sease

How much did we have to pay them to take him ??

~Rebel~

Did we get anything for him or was he just released? im a little bit sick of these guys all being released when we might make a little bit from them. he cost us a fair bit with absolutely no return, even if we just got enough to make back his wages for the year plus his medical bills so we'd break even would be fine..

Lex Luthor

Do Celta Vigo want to get relegated this season?

Nunez, Kleberson & Viana....

Space Coyote

Hugo Viana...jebus he didn't exactly turn out to be quite the genius he was supposed to! Wasn't it 8m Newcastle paid for him?!

Much like our own Anto le Tallec. Maybe this season he might get a run of games and show us some of signs that he could still be a class act (in the Carling Cup).

Necronomicon

Lex Luthor wrote:

Do Celta Vigo want to get relegated this season?

Nunez, Kleberson & Viana....

Hey, if Kleberson is in that midfield I guarentee they finish in a European spot.

mayordenis

nunez isnt a bad player he'll probably be a lot better back in la liga too

jesus_thats_gre

Is the CL match on anywhere on TV?

Jivin Turkey

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Is the CL match on anywhere on TV?

Skysports 1, although cricket is currently on.

Jivin Turkey

Well the Milito deal looks off

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=294542&CPID=23&CLID=&lid=2&title=Milito+snubs+Reds+for+Real&channel=football_home

Not too disappointed as I wasnt sure if he was the right type of player for us.

Next on the list is Jorge Andrade

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=294494&CPID=23&CLID=&lid=2&title=Andrade:+No+Reds+talks&channel=football_home

Nothing offical yet, but here is a signing I would welcome. Very strong CB. Proven at the highest level too. Leadership qualities and still only 27.

woodyg

Dissapointed about Milito but if Andrade came in stead i'd be very happy!

He was top class for Portugal at the Euros last year Strong Quick good in the air and can pass a ball to.


I see Inter are looking to get Walter Samuel on loan id like to see the Pool have a look at him and see if we could snatch him quality player.
But i hear he's on mad money at Real near 75,000 a week Crazy

Thanx 4 The Fish

Think andrade would fit well with Carragher, both strong lads who aren't afraid of a Challenge. I still think that Whitbread will be good enough as a ready replacement for Hyypia in some games, similar type of player to him and good in the air.

Cover is something that we are lacking in only a couple of positions now, which is a change form the last few years.