Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Baggly

the fact of the matter is that there is no way to predict how well they will play, even after the signings are made.

i remember reading an article on football365 last year claiming that crouch's heading ability will match Cisse's pace perfectly, as defences couldnt play too deep to allow crouch chances, and they couldnt sit back to allow Cisse space.

and we all know how that worked out. Liverpool need to get back to having players who are established at scoring 20 goals per season consistently cough fowler back in the day cough. it may take a few years for any new striker to do so, and im not sure that rafa is the type of manager who has buckets of patience for his strikers.

astrofool

to be fair to PHB, it could definitely be argued that Liverpool's striking frailties and seeming underperformance of their strike force could be due to the fact that they were defending so well due to the balance of the team, and hence were sacrificing scoring goals to not let any in.

I'd be of the opinion that the back 4 of finnan/hyppia/carragher/(riise/traore) if put into the team of say Manu/Chelsea/Arsenal, would have conceded alot more goals, but conversely, the Liverpool forward line would have scored more goals.

It's all ifs and buts, but if Liverpool don't want to return to the boring Houllier days, then they're going to have to be prepared to concede more.

Jazzy

its the old problem of 4-5-1 vs. 4-4-2
if pool play 442 then either sissoko or alonso will be dropped (u dont drop alonso). if they play 4-5-1 then they have 3 centre midfielders and 1 striker... which is obviously less potent up front. just on sheer maths, not players skill etc.

p.pete

astrofool wrote:

It's all ifs and buts, but if Liverpool don't want to return to the boring Houllier days, then they're going to have to be prepared to concede more.

Why's that? We conceded fewer last season and the football was a lot more pleasant than the GH days. Why not more of the same? Kewell, Morrientes and Cisse replaced by better attacking options, defence shouldn't suffer and hopefully get a few more goals.

It's a no brainer to say the balance will change - tbh PHB is just trolling as far as I can see - nicely done too I might add

PHB

I don't troll, if I wanted to, there are a lot more funny things I could make jokes and troll about.

but conversely, the Liverpool forward line would have scored more goals.

I don't understand what ya mean there. Are you implying that the midfield is too defensive?

woodyg

well if the greatest tashed forward the pool has ever seen rates Bellamy thats good enough for me.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N152666060621-0829.htm

Stky10

woodyg wrote:

well if the greatest tashed forward the pool has ever seen rates Bellamy thats good enough for me.

With the best will in the world, while he was a great player, Rushie's as dim as a bag of stones. My favourite would his quote describing his time at Juventus "It was like playing in a different country".

PiE

Plus he's probably just bigging-up his fellow Welshman.

astrofool

p.pete wrote:

Why's that? We conceded fewer last season and the football was a lot more pleasant than the GH days. Why not more of the same? Kewell, Morrientes and Cisse replaced by better attacking options, defence shouldn't suffer and hopefully get a few more goals.

It's a no brainer to say the balance will change - tbh PHB is just trolling as far as I can see - nicely done too I might add

I'd just think that Kewell, Morientes and Cisse aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and Hyppia, Carragher, Finnan, Traore, Riise aren't as good as they're made out to be.

el rabitos

astrofool wrote:

I'd just think that Kewell, Morientes and Cisse aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and Hyppia, Carragher, Finnan, Traore, Riise aren't as good as they're made out to be.

the only person that thinks traore is good is, maybe his mother....and i'm sure even she has her doubts

p.pete

astrofool wrote:

I'd just think that Kewell, Morientes and Cisse aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and Hyppia, Carragher, Finnan, Traore, Riise aren't as good as they're made out to be.

I wasn't discussing if they were good or bad - I was suggesting if the first 3 players were replaced (Kewell, Morientes and Cisse) by better attacking options it realistically wouldn't be a negative to how few goals we concede in a season. Obviously there'd be a change in balance to the team but given the amount of defending these guys do (Morientes for example did actually track back a lot and started putting pressure on the opposition from quite far up the pitch) it wouldn't be a detriment to our defence.

Táck

astrofool wrote:

I'd just think that Kewell, Morientes and Cisse aren't as bad as people make them out to be,

yeah i know what you mean. kewell was a good player. a good few years ago when he was hungry for it and was wearing a Leeds jersey. I think he has himself and an un-motivating Ged to blame for his demise. Last season he was better. one can only think this was down to Rafa. Nobody can dispute how good Moro was. but thats past tense. be interesting to see him in Spain again. Cisse....well imo he was just unlucky. in saying that i can see him doing well, albeit anywhere but the premiership though

astrofool wrote:

and Hyppia, Carragher, Finnan, Traore, Riise aren't as good as they're made out to be.

hyppia and carra together last season formed the best offside trap since the full monty. finnan...un-sung hero is an understatement. riise, playing a lot better since his divorce. Traore...:(

Jazzy

PHB wrote:

Are you implying that the midfield is too defensive?

yes. they are too defensive. playing with 2 holding players (sissoko & alonso), they effectivly play a 4-2-3-1 system. thats why pool conceded less goals, it wasnt really the undoubted skill of the defenders, more the work ethic of the team and the strategy behind it. therefore, less goals where scored

shatners basoon

Woooo Traoré!!!!
Nothing like the mighty combination of raw power and horrendous technique!!! Not as bad as some make him out to be despite his really apparant errors as he makes some fantastic tackles, pity about all the rotten bits in his play!

el rabitos

Jazzy wrote:

yes. they are too defensive. playing with 2 holding players (sissoko & alonso), they effectivly play a 4-2-3-1 system. thats why pool conceded less goals, it wasnt really the undoubted skill of the defenders, more the work ethic of the team and the strategy behind it. therefore, less goals where scored

what are you talking about? alonso isnt a holding player, he's the playmaker when himself, sissoko and gerrard play.

sissoko is there to break up opposition attacks and turn them into liverpool attacks, alosno dictates the play with his choice of passing and gerrard is usually the link between midfield and attack, unless he's playing out wide right.

liverpool conceded less because fitness levels under benitez are far higher than under houllier, theres usually at least 2 liverpool players closing down an opposing player with the ball and not giving him time on the ball.

its the same tactic chelsea employ so well, its just a physically draining tactic....and imo the reason why the strikers were playing too deep, getting knackered and not having much to offer in the other teams box

the main differance between liverpool and chelsea is a total lack of penetration from liverpools (lack of) wingers.

the arrival of gonzalez and a good pacy right winger (joaquin, fingers crossed) would be a major plus.

risse is no left winger, not good enough for what pool need anyway, and theres just no right winger at all, which is shocking for a team looking to win the league

Vokes

Well...Alonso is a holding player, imo. He holds his position right in front of the defence taking up the space which would otherwise be used by an oppositions deep-lying attacker. Plus, like you say, he's also has playmaking duties from that position by sweeping the ball around the field.

I'd like to see Sissoko begin to add goals to his game by arriving late into the box next season - he certainly has the power and pace for it.

Jazzy

if u play with the system of alonso, sissoko & gerrard in the middle then u have only 1 striker.
that in my opinion is a more defense orientated midfield then alot of other teams.

el rabitos

Jazzy wrote:

if u play with the system of alonso, sissoko & gerrard in the middle then u have only 1 striker.
that in my opinion is a more defense orientated midfield then alot of other teams.

chelsea only play with 1 striker....they're not a defencive team

mike65

Bellamy cut short his honeymoon and did the medical at Melwood today so I guess we can expect a statement soonest.

Mike.

rondeco

el rabitos wrote:

, and theres just no right winger at all, which is shocking for a team looking to win the league

Gerrard is our right winger and when alves signs we'll have two.
Momo and xabi will now be our first choice central midfield.

zing

mike65 wrote:

Bellamy cut short his honeymoon and did the medical at Melwood today so I guess we can expect a statement soonest.

Let's hope his honeymoon activities didn't have an adverse affect on his fitness/stamina

DaBreno

mike65 wrote:

Bellamy cut short his honeymoon and did the medical at Melwood

He's up for it, no doubt about that.

How did ye think Kuyt did tonight? Shame to see him out wide for so long. He is a hard worker but Id like to have seen him attack more. Could be a good partner for wee Craig.

Baggly

dont think we can judge any of the holland players under van basten. for a great attacker, he isnt bringing out the best in his attackers. lets hope rafa will firstly get kuyt, and secondly get the best out of him

mike65

Kuyt is okay but as you say was out wide to long to be sure, esp as the game was a non-event. Hopefully we'll see more of him next round.

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

el rabitos wrote:

chelsea only play with 1 striker....they're not a defencive team

but they do play the most boring of football in the league.

el rabitos

rondeco wrote:

Gerrard is our right winger and when alves signs we'll have two.
Momo and xabi will now be our first choice central midfield.

when u have the best attacking midfielder in the world at ur disposel, u dont stick him out on the right wing unless u have to, gerrard is no right winger.

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

but they do play the most boring of football in the league.

theres no * on the premiership throphy next to chelsea's name to say they played boring football, at this stage i dont care how liverpool have to play, as long as they win the league.

ButcherOfNog

Kuyt showed nothing, his first touch, control, passing and general play wasn't anything to get excited about. Looked like someone Aston Villa would sign.

Necronomicon

Tonight was the first time I got to see Kuyt play properly. I heard a lot about his attitude, some comments attributed to him would make you think he's a right cocky bastard, but he was very hard working, I thought he had a solid performance.

eirebhoy

I thought he played quite well tonight out of position.

PHB

He was being played out of position in a Dutch team which isn't providing enough supply to the front line, so it's unsuprising he looks ****e.

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

when u have the best attacking midfielder in the world at ur disposel, u dont stick him out on the right wing unless u have to, gerrard is no right winger.

Well I don't see how this relates to Liverpool in any way as they don't even nearly have the best attacking midfielder in the world.

Secondly, at times they "had to" deploy Gerrard on the right as there was no one else there to play. Gerrard had some of his best games of the year (and his Liverpool career) coming in from the right this year.

el rabitos

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well I don't see how this relates to Liverpool in any way as they don't even nearly have the best attacking midfielder in the world.

Secondly, at times they "had to" deploy Gerrard on the right as there was no one else there to play. Gerrard had some of his best games of the year (and his Liverpool career) coming in from the right this year.

well $hit, excuse me, "one of" the best attacking midfielders in the world. if you dont think gerrard is "even nearly" the best in the world right now, then i dont know what football you have been watching. he's one of the most complete midfielders around.

and i know they "had to" deploy gerrard on the right, my point is, if there was a good right winger, or any right winger at the club, gerrard wouldnt be playing on the right.

futuredeath

Right to PHB you are seriously having a laugh to go and say Kuyt looked ****e,
anything but. thats a very nonsense comment.
and common Jivin Turkey, Ronaldinho MIGHT be a better attacking midfielder but thats it thats where it ends.

kinaldo

I'll swap y'all Owen for Bellamy (I'll even throw in Ameobi)...

Sure Bells will be injured soon enough anyway

Jazzy

futuredeath wrote:

Right to PHB you are seriously having a laugh to go and say Kuyt looked ****e,

but u have to remember that PHB is the biggest voice of man u on boards.ie
of course hes gonna say a player is ****e when they are a potential pool target... its a knee jerk reaction to him.

every little victory eh ?

p.pete

futuredeath wrote:

Right to PHB you are seriously having a laugh to go and say Kuyt looked ****e,

That's not exactly what he said from what I read into it - being in the dutch attack, it's difficult to impress due to poor supply.

He impressed me, thought his attitude was very good - his yellow card was unjust as far as I remember and I was waiting for him to start a gripe at the ref but he just got on with it. Also for a front man to be able to get out wide and collect the ball while an attack is building up is a valuable asset, towards the end of the match when he was in the middle he was still showing good movement, showing up around the pitch.

A large part of the Dutch's attacking problem last night may have been support from midfield as opposed to supply - against Argentina who'll rip you appart if you leave the midfield exposed it's fair enough that they weren't too cavalier (even though the match wasn't that important).

p.pete

This mornings reports seem to confirm Bellamy, 4 year contract. Also Cisse on loan to Marseille is looking more likely and they've to buy him after that if he's regained fitness

redspider

DaBreno wrote:

How did ye think Kuyt did tonight? Shame to see him out wide for so long. He is a hard worker but Id like to have seen him attack more. Could be a good partner for wee Craig.

After seeing Kuyt play several times, in this WC and before and also some action in the Dutch league, I do NOT rate him highly. He is a hard working forward, a sort of a forward, but he is by no means a skilful wizard (Messi) nor a lethal poacher (Crespo). Given Liverpool's lack of firepower up-front, he would do ok, but he is not the answer to our prayers and I think that we'd be better off spending money elsewhere.

I think that Bellamy is a better player than Kuyt, and has proven it in the premeirship style, whereas Kuyt hasnt and could go the way of Zenden.

What about Huntelaar from Ajax? Probably not for sale but a better player than Kuyt and not in the WC shopping window, so perhaps cheaper!

redspider

RE*AC*TOR

what about Bent? He's gotten plenty of goals?

MonkeyTennis

redspider wrote:

, I do NOT rate him highly. He is a hard working forward, a sort of a forward, but he is by no means a skilful wizard (Messi) nor a lethal poacher (Crespo).


What about Huntelaar from Ajax? Probably not for sale but a better player than Kuyt and not in the WC shopping window, so perhaps cheaper!

redspider

http://home.skysports.com/topscorers.asp?cpid=9

rondeco

el rabitos wrote:

when u have the best attacking midfielder in the world at ur disposel, u dont stick him out on the right wing unless u have to, gerrard is no right winger.

Gerrard is playing his best football now because of the discipline rafa has instilled in him by playing him on the right wing. As a free rolling attacking mid-fielder he was going missing too often in games and now on the wing he is alot more influential and consistent. I would bet that he will play more on the wing next season than in the middle. Fancy it?

Dr Galen

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=397330&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=3&title=Liverpool+close+on+Alves

looks like we've gotten our right winger then.......fingers crossed.
have to be honest and say I've not seen much of him play, but I do know that in Champ Manager he's tasty................

ciaran76

super_furry wrote:

Rovers have confirmed it on their website. It'll be a great bit of business if he moves to Anfield for such a paltry fee, considering he scored 17 goals in a mid-table team last season. When the likes of Andy Johnsen, who wasn't even top-scorer in the Championship costs £8.5million, you've got to be happy with the fee. The only cavaet is Bellamy's temperament, but I'd have no doubt that Benitez can and will get the best from him.

I thought Andy Johnson joined Everton for a fee of 6.5 million and added on clauses that could eventually add to 8.5 million ?
I reckon Andy Jonhson would also be on less wages and less emotional baggage as Bellamy so wouldn't compare the two myself.

Bellamy though could be if he put his mind to it a very good player.

The Rooster

Jeez, Sevilla bought him for £300,000 three years ago. That's a tidy profit!

I see from his stats he's had 17 yellows and 1 red card in 48 games this season, averaging almost a booking every 3 games in Spain and more than a booking every two games in Europe!

RE*AC*TOR

nurse_baz wrote:

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=397330&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=3&title=Liverpool+close+on+Alves

looks like we've gotten our right winger then.......fingers crossed.
have to be honest and say I've not seen much of him play, but I do know that in Champ Manager he's tasty................

He's quick, bit of a battler, good control.

I reckon he'll be well suited to the premiership. He's not afraid to get stuck in.

The interesting thing will be how this affects the team lineup.

Will it be a case of Alonso / Gerrard in the centre flanked by Gonzalez and Alves?

I reckon it will mean we will go back to 4-5-1

Sissoko has proved himself invaluable as a destructive player. We do better with him in the team.

This may allow gerrard a more central "free role".

finnan--carra---hyppia---riise

alves--sissoko---alonjso--speedy

---

gerrard

---

---

crouch/bellamy----


mind you he could go completely crazy and drop steve "the rock" finnan.


alves---carra---hyppia----riise

gerrad---sissoko--alonso---speedy

---

bellamy----crouch

---

p.pete

nurse_baz wrote:

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=397330&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=3&title=Liverpool+close+on+Alves

looks like we've gotten our right winger then.......fingers crossed.
have to be honest and say I've not seen much of him play, but I do know that in Champ Manager he's tasty................

It would be cool if that pans out but generally it doesn't matter what the agent says until after the the clubs have finished talking, which hasn't happened yet afaik.

woodyg

I'm not totally convinced Alves is the answer to the wide right problem.
Would be happier with a proven performer there specially as the price continues to rise.


Any word on Speedy's application they usually dont take that long to process

redspider

MonkeyTennis wrote:

http://home.skysports.com/topscorers.asp?cpid=9

I take it that the point you're making is that Kuyt is top scorer. Huntelaar has 35 in total, 17 with Heerenveen and then 18 with Ajax. He's the best striker in NL at the moment and there was (and is) controversy with Van Basten's omission of him, especially considering Van Nistelrooy's rustiness at present. That decision may come back to haunt Marco if NL are knocked out early. So far things are going ok.

redspider

PHB

He's the best striker in NL at the moment and there was (and is) controversy with Van Basten's omission of him

Ahead of Kuyt and Babel, not ahead of Ruud.

kaimera

PHB wrote:

Ahead of Kuyt and Babel, not ahead of Ruud.

Ruud plays in ENG, not NL so yes, he would be the best striker in NL atm.