concern over eastern european crime?

_feedback_

shyjoe wrote:

i knwo theres irish scumabgs i mite start another post on that

Man that's a brilliant idea.... you should definately do that. Don't think there's ever been a thread on After Hours on that particular subject before. :rolleyes:

SimpleSam06

Plissken1 wrote:

We will simply have to deal with it, we will have to help people for a change rather than expecting other countries to do it.

Actually, no we don't. This is our home, and we make the rules to suit ourselves. Other countries don't even come into it.

humanji

So is that the fault of the eastern europeans that they've seen an oportunity and taken it? The world is full of scumbags of every race colour and creed. The things you've said your neighbours do are done by Irish people all the time. It happens, so get over it.

And with regards those statistics, there's about 4m people in Ireland and 38m in Poland, so doesn't that come down to something like a 2-3% difference in crime rates? Which isn't as huge as those stats make it seem.

stovelid

shyjoe wrote:

the place got over taken with eastern european scum i think it might change you aswell

Nice one, may as well cut out all the nice stuff and get down to the heart of what you're really saying...

Come to think of it, we've probably corrupted a whole generation of eastern Europeans. When they head home, all they'll care about is drinking, fighting and house prices.

SimpleSam06

humanji wrote:

And with regards those statistics, there's about 4m people in Ireland and 38m in Poland, so doesn't that come down to something like a 2-3% difference in crime rates? Which isn't as huge as those stats make it seem.

They are done per capita, in several cases. You're what, six times more likely to be murdered in Poland than Ireland.

humanji

SimpleSam06 wrote:

They are done per capita, in several cases. You're what, six times more likely to be murdered in Poland than Ireland.

Actually, looking back on it, it's only from 1998-2000. I was wondering how there could only be 38 murders in Ireland. I'd say we've probably easily had that since the start of the year. Of course that must be due to immagrants and not the rising drug culture

griffdaddy

shyjoe wrote:

i knwo theres irish scumabgs i mite start another post on that.but the irish have be welcoming to all polish etc.but at least vet them so they have English,no records,a licence,maybe some skills.in fairness alot of things are put in polish for them so they just laugh at us making it easy for them they don't have to integrate at all.their doing the leaving in all different languages now how is that going to help the kids?if you want a polish leaving cert paper do it in Poland,if your in Ireland do it our way.if i moved somewhere id have to do it the local way

What difference does that make to you? They'll have to speak English if they're going to go to college anyway. You can't vet people coming in just because they're Polish, we're in the EU for a reason, those roads didn't build themselves, now it's payback time, and there's no point being ham fisted about it. Incidentally, if anyone else here has ever actually been in Poland they'll realise the population are deeply religious and conservative, what we get over here is a passing phase of young people making money for a better future in Poland, a lot like Irish young lads going to Australia or America for a year.

Kiith

Well, its obvious isnt it...all the drug dealers are foreign. That was its still their fault :rolleyes:

Blitzkrieger

There's been numerous articles in the English Times about how the crime rate has gone down in Poland. I wonder where all the scumbags are?

shyjoe

ok shur just let all the scum in from eastern europe we dont have enough of our own.3 of my friends are guards and they tell their sick of the foreign sick now wish they could them on a plane home translators costing huge money and giving free legal aid its crap

Dyr

think we might need an auld translator in here wha'?

SimpleSam06

griffdaddy wrote:

we're in the EU for a reason, those roads didn't build themselves, now it's payback time, and there's no point being ham fisted about it.

Jesus if I hear this again theres a fighting chance my head will explode. First of all the EU needed a poster child in order to bring in Eastern European states and expand. We got the lucky lottery ticket. Second of all, Ireland is expected to become a net EU contributor at some stage, so their investment (and that is what it is) will be repaid many many times over. We owe exactly fack all to anyone, and admitting troublesome new populations isn't in anyone's interests. Not that I'm saying they are troublesome, generally I find the Polish to be polite and friendly.

_feedback_

shyjoe wrote:

ok shur just let all the scum in from eastern europe we dont have enough of our own.3 of my friends are guards and they tell their sick of the foreign sick now wish they could them on a plane home translators costing huge money and giving free legal aid its crap

post reported ......

along with two previous posts from this user ...

Kintarō Hattori

shyjoe wrote:

ok shur just let all the scum in from eastern europe we dont have enough of our own.3 of my friends are guards and they tell their sick of the foreign sick now wish they could them on a plane home translators costing huge money and giving free legal aid its crap

Joe your not helping your arguement with really poor grammer and punctuation.

Ned - why bother anymore?

BigTommyBomb

Are you denying that there are scum in Poland?

griffdaddy

SimpleSam06 wrote:

. First of all the EU needed a poster child in order to bring in Eastern European states and expand. We got the lucky lottery ticket. Second of all, Ireland is expected to become a net EU contributor at some stage, so their investment (and that is what it is) will be repaid many many times over.

I thought we were used as a poster child because our economy was probably the most successful example of how the EU works, especially seeing as we weren't part of the 'old guard'? There's more than one way to become an EU contributor, allowing a sizeable number of foreigners to feed off our economy is a directly intangible contribution, but is indirectly tangible once those people return to Poland or wherever. However, I'd agree, the minute it becomes A) an economic burden or B)a big social problem, we have to start controlling numbers more stringently. It's certainly not A at the moment, and whether or not it's B is highly debatable, personally I don't think it is. Displaced populations always take time to adjust, I'd let it pan out for a while.

shyjoe

why reported elvis?free speech not allowed here?

Tar.Aldarion

Free speech is not allowed here. The owners of this site are liable for your posts.
If everybody keeps derogatory terms to a minimum we will all have a lovely day. This is the only warning.

elviscostello: It appears the posts you reported mention that there are 'scum' from Eastern European countries. I'm sure there are, just as there are here, but he is not referring to individual troublemakers and not all the people from the country. As long as it is civil from here on out the thread will remain in good stead.

SimpleSam06

griffdaddy wrote:

I thought we were used as a poster child because our economy was probably the most successful example of how the EU works, especially seeing as we weren't part of the 'old guard'?

Our economy is only so successful because of nutty lending practices by the banks, inspired by historically low interest rates. The EU hadn't much to do with that. Not that it stops them holding up Ireland as their poster child, in order to pull in Eastern states...

griffdaddy wrote:

There's more than one way to become an EU contributor, allowing a sizeable number of foreigners to feed off our economy is a directly intangible contribution, but is indirectly tangible once those people return to Poland or wherever.

Nope, you become an EU contributor when you contribute financially from the country's coffers to the EU coffers, not via some sort of parasitic social arrangement, implied or otherwise.

griffdaddy wrote:

Displaced populations always take time to adjust, I'd let it pan out for a while.

What happens when your immigrants turn out to be migrants, and you have a revolving door of people who will never settle or integrate?

DonkeyStyle \o/

shyjoe wrote:

free speech not allowed here?

I lol'ed
The feedback forum is littered with banned users who thought they had some right to free speech with boards.ie as a conduit.
In short, I'd say "No, not exactly..."

griffdaddy

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Our economy is only so successful because of nutty lending practices by the banks, inspired by historically low interest rates. The EU hadn't much to do with that. Not that it stops them holding up Ireland as their poster child, in order to pull in Eastern states...

There's a lot more to our economy than frantic spending based on low interest rates. where do you think the funding for education and road infrastructure to attract American multinationals came from? What do you mean pull in Eastern States? they're dying to join, there's a queue of about 10 countries, although I'm sure the EU have all of them tricked.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Nope, you become an EU contributor when you contribute financially from the country's coffers to the EU coffers, not via some sort of parasitic social arrangement, implied or otherwise.

Well going by any economic logic, and indeed, your logic used above that money being injected into an economy - be it borrowing, money sent home etc. - contributes to the overall well-being of an economy, we're helping those economies through repatriated profits, that is an undeniable fact, and the reason that they're all here.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

What happens when your immigrants turn out to be migrants, and you have a revolving door of people who will never settle or integrate?

This isn't a major concern. We have increasingly stringent immigration laws for those attempting to come here from outside the EU, you can't just waltz in here any more. The less well off countries from the EU's economy's are getting better, and this will stem the tide of foreigners coming here because they won't have a need to. We don't intend to allow unchecked numbers of future maiden EU citizens into our country either, rather very limited amounts, looked at the contrast between the numbers of Polish and Romanian immigrants here.

SimpleSam06

griffdaddy wrote:

There's a lot more to our economy than frantic spending based on low interest rates.

Not really. Go take a look at the housing bubble thread over in accommodation if you want an exhaustive breakdown of our economy's strengths and weaknesses.

griffdaddy wrote:

where do you think the funding for education and road infrastructure to attract American multinationals came from?

Education = civil service = taxes, most particularily on housing carraige and income, which are very much related. As for infrastructure, we have one of the shittiest infrastructures in the first world. Take for example the recent water debacle in Galway.

griffdaddy wrote:

What do you mean pull in Eastern States? they're dying to join, there's a queue of about 10 countries, although I'm sure the EU have all of them tricked.

When you have just escaped from a monolithic superbloc, the last thing you want to do is hop right in and join another one. So the EU points to Ireland, and says, see, theres a poor country hammered by a foreign power for much of its history, see how well its doing due to being in the EU? Wouldn't you like to be a part of that too?

griffdaddy wrote:

we're helping those economies through repatriated profits, that is an undeniable fact, and the reason that they're all here.

Yes, but its a mistake to say that we owe them that.

griffdaddy wrote:

The less well off countries from the EU's economy's are getting better, and this will stem the tide of foreigners coming here because they won't have a need to.

How many decades will that take? And how long do you think the economic good times will last in Ireland? Compare and contrast those two figures...

_feedback_

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

elviscostello: It appears the posts you reported mention that there are 'scum' from Eastern European countries. I'm sure there are, just as there are here, but he is not referring to individual troublemakers and not all the people from the country. As long as it is civil from here on out the thread will remain in good stead.

considering you didn't keep it to PM, I'll reply here....

He starts his very first post by asking the 'PC' crowd not to go at him.... obviously with intent and knowledge of the point he wanted to get across. That point being, he believes the influx of people from eastern europe is wrong and points out a number of times his opinion of the ones he has seen as being 'scum' . Then going on to paint them all with the same brush, by posting the comment "ok shur just let all the scum in from eastern europe" ... (his english , not mine )

So I'm sure you'll agree, there are a lot of people who would take strong offence to that.... myself included. So i'd ask again that you ask the user to edit/remove the posts I reported.

Thanks

nesf

elviscostello wrote:

considering you didn't keep it to PM, I'll reply here....

He starts his very first post by asking the 'PC' crowd not to go at him.... obviously with intent and knowledge of the point he wanted to get across. That point being, he believes the influx of people from eastern europe is wrong and points out a number of times his opinion of the ones he has seen as being 'scum' . Then going on to paint them all with the same brush, by posting the comment "ok shur just let all the scum in from eastern europe" ... (his english , not mine )

So I'm sure you'll agree, there are a lot of people who would take strong offence to that.... myself included. So i'd ask again that you ask the user to edit/remove the posts I reported.

Thanks

Don't argue it in thread. Take it to PM with either me or Tar.

nesf

As a bit of anecdotal evidence, I live in an apartment block full of eastern europeans and there hasn't been any trouble. We've had more problems with drunk Irish guys trying to kick the door in tbh.

_feedback_

nesf wrote:

Don't argue it in thread. Take it to PM with either me or Tar.

I did PM Tar earlier but got a reply through the thread rather than by PM. That's why I posted this:

elviscostello wrote:

considering you didn't keep it to PM, I'll reply here....

I have just PM'd Tar now again.....

Tar.Aldarion

nesf wrote:

As a bit of anecdotal evidence, I live in an apartment block full of eastern europeans and there hasn't been any trouble. We've had more problems with drunk Irish guys trying to kick the door in tbh.

Same kind of thing.
I worked in a nightclub last summer, most staff were eastern european.
Lovely people and work very hard, and always tried to help, even through abuse they got from drunk, ignorant Irish people.


I'll reply to that PM sometime after my meeting now.

Jumpy

shyjoe wrote:

why reported elvis?free speech not allowed here?

Free speech is allowed, to a point.
Of course what you you have written could hardly be classified as anything.
Before you go giving out about the Polish not speaking english, you may look at learning a bit yourself.

griffdaddy

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Not really. Go take a look at the housing bubble thread over in accommodation if you want an exhaustive breakdown of our economy's strengths and weaknesses.

I was always under the impression that we had one of the strongest tourism, manufacturing and administrative sectors in Europe? (I mean that in a questioning way, not an argumentative way)

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Education = civil service = taxes, most particularily on housing carraige and income, which are very much related. As for infrastructure, we have one of the shittiest infrastructures in the first world. Take for example the recent water debacle in Galway.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. For every argument supporting my point about the EU, i found one that didn't and vice versa. Plus, I said specifically our roads infrastructure.

wikipedia wrote:

: 'Many economists credit Ireland's growth to a low corporate taxation rate (10 to 12.5 percent throughout the late 1990s), and to net transfer payments from members of the European Union like France and Germany that were as high as 4% of gross national product. Ireland's membership in the European Union since 1973 helped also the country gain access to Europe's large markets. Ireland's trade had previously been predominantly with the United Kingdom.[2]

The EU aid was used to increase investment in the education system and physical infrastructure. The increased productive capacity of the Irish economy is often attributed to these investments, which made Ireland more attractive to high-tech businesses.[3]

The libertarian Cato Institute has suggested that the EU transfer payments were economically inefficient and may have actually slowed growth.[4] The Heritage Foundation also downplayed the role of transfer payments.[3] Other analyses suggest that much of the growth was due to the fact that the economy of Ireland had lagged behind the rest of northwestern Europe for so long that it had become one of the few sources of a relatively large, low-wage labour pool remaining in Western Europe (which had the added advantages of being English speaking with access to the EU markets and was in a timezone suitable for business dealings with both Continental Europe and the US east coast)'

The reference the Economist and a few other credible sources in that wiki, so it's fairly credible.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

When you have just escaped from a monolithic superbloc, the last thing you want to do is hop right in and join another one. So the EU points to Ireland, and says, see, theres a poor country hammered by a foreign power for much of its history, see how well its doing due to being in the EU? Wouldn't you like to be a part of that too?

And they'd say 'Yes we would, because you spend money on building roads and bridges for us, instead of making us build huge statues of Stalin.'

SimpleSam06 wrote:

How many decades will that take? And how long do you think the economic good times will last in Ireland? Compare and contrast those two figures...

Well at the moment we won't be taking a huge amount of any new countries, and at the moment the economies of the countries here are getting better. It's not like these countries have no potential, their populations and resources have just been mismanaged.

wikipedia wrote:

The prospect of closer integration with the European Union has put the (Polands) economy back on track, with growth of 3.7% annually in 2003, a rise from 1.4% annually in 2002. In 2004, GDP growth equaled 5.4%, in 2005 3.3% and in 2006 6.1%. For 2007, the government has set a target for GDP growth at 6.5 to 7.0%

So yes we don't have to do it, we can close up our borders whenever we want. We're an island, it should be no problem. But these guys are taking jobs that nobody wants anyway, which is making our service sector a lot bigger and better than it should be. Of course there's going to be collateral damage, but at the moment it doesn't seem important enough to kick up a fuss about.

SimpleSam06

griffdaddy wrote:

I was always under the impression that we had one of the strongest tourism, manufacturing and administrative sectors in Europe?

Your impression would be woefully inaccurate. Most of our manufacturing is from foreign companies, who are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the high rates of pay in Ireland, and can relocate as and when it suits them. Tourism only accounts for about ~5% of the economy, if I recall correctly, and thats taking a dive as well, due to "rip off Ireland".

griffdaddy wrote:

I said specifically our roads infrastructure.

Well in fairness even the wikipedia article gives many dissenting views on the value of the EU role in Ireland. I'm not debating that the EU has played a valuable role, however, it does not mean we are obliged to open our borders to all and sundry. Ireland is a sovereign nation.

Also, are you seriously going to tell me that Ireland has a good road infrastructure?

griffdaddy wrote:

And they'd say 'Yes we would, because you spend money on building roads and bridges for us, instead of making us build huge statues of Stalin.'

And they would know that for a fact because the EU can point to Ireland. Talk is cheap...

griffdaddy wrote:

It's not like these countries have no potential, their populations and resources have just been mismanaged.

National averages and economies don't move at a pace of months, they move at a pace of years and decades. Our economy is approaching the downturn in the boom-bust cycle, some would say its already heading south. Theirs will take decades to recover from eastern bloc occupation, during which time we can look forward to further waves of migrant workers.

griffdaddy wrote:

So yes we don't have to do it, we can close up our borders whenever we want. We're an island, it should be no problem.

However we do share a common land border with the UK, who by all accounts were even more suprised than us at the number of Polish immigrants who arrived into their country.

griffdaddy wrote:

But these guys are taking jobs that nobody wants anyway, which is making our service sector a lot bigger and better than it should be.

If by bigger and better you mean grossly more profitable for the few owners, yes I'd agree. As for jobs no one else wants, tell that to the student populations over the summer trying to get work, or even part time jobs to support themselves in college.

A massive influx of underpaid migrant workers has the effect of lowering the wages for other people, since the mgrants are perfectly willing to accept living conditions that native populations would deem unacceptable, even inhumane.

This has the knock on effect of lowering the living standard for the lower tier of workers, and widening the gap between the rich and the poor, never mind the macroeconomic effects of leakage from the economy.