Romanian beggers

SimpleSam06

humanji wrote:

Well in fairness, considering how many stupid comments about dumb t-shirts to make yourself feel cool, throwing maggots, and beating up people, i doubt googled information is going to help anyone.

Information always helps.

humanji

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Information always helps.

But only if people pay attention to it. Some folk here simply don't care.

Degsy

This is OUR society,we pay taxes,VAT and Christ knows what else.If people from other countries dont want to work for a living and chosse instead to make money through dishonesty and vagrancy then they should NOt be allowed to come here.Can somebody from the far left please tell me exactly what Roma gypsies contribute to society.

100gSoma

flogen wrote:

I just find it funny that it's always the asylum seekers who are coming here and scamming the welfare system (and getting all these fictional benefits), but no-one mentions the Irish doing the same thing.

Flogen, your obviously in the minority here and I think your overuse of sarcasm is bordering on purposely inciting a negative reaction from the posters on here.

The reason you hear about the asylum seekers (economic migrants) scamming is because a "disproportionate" amount of them do so. I cannot really simplify it any more for you.

In fact I should really start another thread for you to get your teeth into. The topic? Did you know that 75% of annual new HIV infections in this country are in non-irish persons of sub-Saharan decent. Wow. That sounds like a racist statement doesn't it. 75% of Irelands 400(average) new HIV infections each year occur in a demographic (sub saharan africans) that represent less than 1% of the population. source http://www.ndsc.ie/hpsc/A-Z/HepatitisHIVAIDSandSTIs/HIVandAIDS/SurveillanceReports/

Now, you seem like the kind of man to stand up and tell me why I'm racist to suggest screening immigrants from high risk countries. High risk meaning they are possibly carrying an incurable infectious and ultimately terminal disease.
Nope. Instead we encourage integration and only discover these infections because a blood test is mandatory at childbirth.
The is rationality behind addressing this issue, but its racist to even mention such things. Besides that, there is a bingo bus load of people like your good self ready to make people feel like racist ignorant bigots. Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is entitled to it. Personally I don't like people tapping my window as I sit in traffic on the M50 to ask for change and tell me they have a child. Good for them. An Irish person has yet to do that. When it happens I will change my "racist" opinion I am sure.

SimpleSam06

humanji wrote:

Some folk here simply don't care.

Thats no reason not to give them an opportunity.

Although I share many of the sentiments of dislike of the Roma many posters here are expressing, they don't impact my life any more than say chuggers or winos, so I'm not sure why there is such virulent hatred being expressed here.

The Roma were founded on being mobile in order to retain their way of life, from what I gather. This in the middle ages gave them far more travel experience than other people of that age, and so they could reasonable have been said to be sharper and more experienced than many "settled" people. The problem is they still have this attitude of the smile and the wink, I'm cuter than you, as Vimes has related.

However the modern world has completely outpaced them, the average settled person these days is more widely travelled and experienced than they can ever hope to be. They blindly assume the same dull peasant mentality exists which enabled their lifestyle in the first place. For a people who pride themselves on their adaptability, they have really lost the plot.

Thats my take on it anyway.

tbh

Degsy wrote:

This is OUR society,we pay taxes,VAT and Christ knows what else.If people from other countries dont want to work for a living and chosse instead to make money through dishonesty and vagrancy then they should NOt be allowed to come here.Can somebody from the far left please tell me exactly what Roma gypsies contribute to society.

Define "Our". People born here? People working here?

tbh

100gSoma wrote:

Flogen, your obviously in the minority here

what's that got to do with anything? That's something I'd be proud of, if I was flogen. Much easier to run with the flock than to stand up for what you believe in.

Mr.Nice Guy

tbh wrote:

QFT. That's the nub of the argument right there. Seriously, how much impact do these people have on your daily life? Sure it's a minor hassle to have someone asking you for money, but how difficult is it to say "no" and just walk past?

Yeah exactly, guys. So what if these people bother and HARASS? Just ignore them. After all, ignoring a problem is better than standing up and addressing it right?

rkeane

so you believe in the behaviour of these aggressive scumbags??

people are sick of them.

Slow Motion

tbh wrote:

Define "Our". People born here? People working here?

Anybody who is here and contributing in a positive way, as for those who are born here and are not contributing there is not much we can do about them, where as those who come here with no intention of adding to society but simply wish to take advantage of it, why should we have to put up with them ?

Degsy

tbh wrote:

Define "Our". People born here? People working here?

Either is good.

tbh

ok, well there are plenty of romas who were born here. So presumably, they have the same rights as anyone else? If someone who's ancestors have been here forever has never worked a day in their life, do we kick them out? Also, people living and working here had the chance to vote for the ICP in the last election, for their 3 candidates they got 1,329 votes. Hardly looks like the majority support them, do they?

Slow Motion

tbh wrote:

ok, well there are plenty of romas who were born here. So presumably, they have the same rights as anyone else?

If they were born here well then yes they are our problem !

Degsy

tbh wrote:

ok, well there are plenty of romas who were born here. So presumably, they have the same rights as anyone else?

Within the confines of the law and morality.

Mr.Nice Guy

tbh wrote:

ok, well there are plenty of romas who were born here. So presumably, they have the same rights as anyone else?

They have as much right to bother people as the rest of us do. I wonder if you'd defend Irish people born here bothering and irritating people?

I suspect not. It's not nearly as self-righteous and politically correct.

tbh

Slow Motion wrote:

Anybody who is here and contributing in a positive way, as for those who are born here and are not contributing there is not much we can do about them, where as those who come here with no intention of adding to society but simply wish to take advantage of it, why should we have to put up with them ?

I believe the term is "moral obligation"

tbh

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They have as much right to bother people as the rest of us do. I wonder if you'd defend Irish people born here bothering and irritating people?

I suspect not. It's not nearly as self-righteous and politically correct.

You know nothing about me, so don't presume to know what I would and wouldn't do. My record on boards speaks for itself. I don't differentiate between Irish and Foreign, we're all the same.

Degsy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They have as much right to bother people as the rest of us do. I wonder if you'd defend Irish people born here bothering and irritating people?

I suspect not. It's not nearly as self-righteous and politically correct.

Correct.I wonder what would become of a group of irish people who sought out memebers of the roma community with the specific intention of harassing them for cash.I mean,its not like these ****ers bum off each other.

tbh

Degsy wrote:

Within the confines of the law and morality.

the law says they can stay. The law ALSO says that begging isn't illegal.

Slow Motion

tbh wrote:

I believe the term is "moral obligation"

Moral obligation ? If they are fleeing persecution / are valid asylum seekers yes, if they are meerly migrating vagabonds then no !

Degsy

tbh wrote:

the law says they can stay. The law ALSO says that begging isn't illegal.

What would you tell you children about the morality of begging?Yes its okay because its legal?

tbh

you're the one who brought up the law degsy, not me.

I've said before that I think it's pointless sending them back to Romania or wherever, because the same factors that drove them to leave will still be there. I think we should instead focus our efforts on breaking the vicious cycle that makes the kids grow up in a culture where the only thing they know is how to rob and beg. I DO think that the government should come down hard on those members of our society - Irish or not - who try to exploit people's good natures to get money out of them, but it's not the fault of the romas that the government are not doing that. Still, I'm sure it's much easier just to kick them out and let someone else worry about them. It's just not my style to do that.

Stark

tbh wrote:

How come no-one is saying "Society should be fairer - we should be spending time and money making sure that they don't have any need to come here" I bet a lot of people talking about other human beings like they were different to them were wearing "Make Poverty History" wristbands. Why the delight is someone else's suffering?

Eh? They beg because that's their culture, that's how they're raised. No matter how many advances we make in eliminating poverty, they're not going to change unless their hand is forced.

tbh wrote:

but it's not the fault of the romas that the government are not doing that.

Of course it's their fault. You're saying the fault of an individual for doing wrong lies not with the individual but with the government for not punishing them?

tbh

Stark wrote:

Eh? They beg because that's their culture, that's how they're raised. No matter how many advances we make in eliminating poverty, they're not going to change unless their hand is forced.

Did you read my last post? about breaking the cycle.

Agamemnon

It would be great if we could get the Roma out of the cycle of begging and crime, but is it practical or even possible to do that? We haven't had much success reforming our home-grown criminal cultures. Also, if we tried to reform the Roma, there would be an uproar from multiculturalists, PC fanatics and the like.

Slow Motion

tbh wrote:

but it's not the fault of the romas that the government are not doing that.

Surely they have a moral obligation not to beg but to get jobs and contribute to society

Duras

Romania has about two million Roma, sometimes known as Gypsies. The Roma population is the largest ethnic group in Romania and is distinctive from most of the other people of the country. The first thing you need to know is they are called tigani in the Romanian language and they are called Gypsies in the English language. They call themselves Roma or Roms. They prefer this name because of the negative stereotypes linked to the words, tigani and Gypsies.

Of course Romanians and many Tigani that are here in Ireland come from the same land (Romania). But you wouldn't mix up the weed and the grass just cos they both grow on the same land in your lawn, would you?

Then why call Romanian beggars? Do I call Irish sheeps just cos there are a lot of sheeps here in Ireland? I don't...

When some other Romanian fella asks me about how Ireland and Irish are I don't tell them that you are round and furry, or that you are British travelers banished on the smaller island. I tell them that Irish are a friendly, jovial and pleasant people. When some ask about the myth of Irish being drunkards, I tell them about "the crack", I explain that having a drink and having fun does not mean that you are "drunkards".

I tell them that you have been one of the poorest European nations in the past (and this can be still seen when looking at the roads or medical infrastructure btw) but you have worked so hard that you are now one of the most successful nations in Europe.

I tell them that Ireland is a great place to live (oh if it wouldn't be the weather) and that the years I lived here helped me see things with different eyes.

Please do not mix up Romanians and Tigani any more... it makes our latino blood boil... If you don't know what you are talking about.... you'd be better of not talking.

Someone said previously that Romanians are not Gypsy (true) and that Romanians are as any other Eastern European country. Not quite...

Slow Motion

Duras wrote:

Then why call Romanian beggars?

I think that the OP meant Roma has been well established at this point !

Sam Vimes

tbh wrote:

QFT. That's the nub of the argument right there. Seriously, how much impact do these people have on your daily life? Sure it's a minor hassle to have someone asking you for money, but how difficult is it to say "no" and just walk past?

if i don't notice that one of these dodgy cnuts has fake id and i sign them up to a contract i personally lose €50

tbh wrote:

the law says they can stay. The law ALSO says that begging isn't illegal.

in fairness, it was illegal from 1847 until three months ago. i don't think this all started in march

flogen

0ubliette wrote:

Do you just brows boards with your eyes closed and randomly press keys or something? Have you not see the hundreds of posts right here on AH with titles like 'i hate scumbags' or 'bloody scumbags' or whatever, that rip on our very own irish knackers? The one about the winos comparing cock sizes on the luas?

Of course I've seen those posts, but that's my point. When it's a white Irish guy, the individual is a scumbag. When its a Roma, the whole race are scumbags.

Degsy wrote:

No,you think "that dirty junky scumbag is a dirtbag."If you see a few of them,you think "those dirty junky scumbags are dirtbags".If every single irish person you've ever met in your life is a dirty,junky scumbag you might well be forgiven for thinking "every dirty irish scumbag junky is a dirtbag".If every roma gypsy you've ever met in your life is a begger thewn you'd have some justification in thinking they were ALL beggers.

Yeah, and the point I made earlier was that you've probably encountered ten times as many Roma who weren't begging and may have been busy working, but you don't remember them because they didn't get in your face.

I cant see what your point is in any of your posts,you're saying that there are irish beggers too and nobody is disputing that.What most people ar esaying is that nobody has ever met a roma gypsy who wasnt begging,scamming,hassling people or otherwise behaving in an antisocial manner.There are several hundred maybe a thousand or so Roma gypsies in ireland and i guarantee you NONE of them work.

Nobody has ever met a Roma gypsy who wasn't begging, scamming, hassling people or otherwise? That's one hell of a statement which you have zero ability to back up.

If there are several hundred thousand of them (and there's no way in hell that there are, given that there are 400,000 immigrants in Ireland and most of them are Polish/Latvian etc.) then you've probably encountered 0.1% of them at the most - and yet you assume that they're representative of the others you haven't met, the ones that are keeping themselves to themselves.

grasshopa wrote:

http://www.ria.gov.ie/coming_to_ireland_as_an_asylum_seeker/

Ah no...

That was my point - I was being sarcastic (and I quoted those figures later on, although I got the children's allowance wrong).
I was playing on the fact that most people will believe anyone who says "they get loads of money and a free house and car" without trying to investigate it for themselves.

100gSoma wrote:

Flogen, your obviously in the minority here and I think your overuse of sarcasm is bordering on purposely inciting a negative reaction from the posters on here.

The reason you hear about the asylum seekers (economic migrants) scamming is because a "disproportionate" amount of them do so. I cannot really simplify it any more for you.

How do they scam the system? And what verifiable cases have you heard? I can tell you that the only ones I've heard are the completely fictional "he said he was bullied on a bus so they gave him a free car" shíte.

As I've pointed out already, asylum seekers get a pitance while their applications are being processed. When they get refugee status they're expected to work and pay taxes like the rest of us, and they're only entitled to the same benefits as anyone else legally resident in this country (ie you and me)

In fact I should really start another thread for you to get your teeth into. The topic? Did you know that 75% of annual new HIV infections in this country are in non-irish persons of sub-Saharan decent. Wow. That sounds like a racist statement doesn't it. 75% of Irelands 400(average) new HIV infections each year occur in a demographic (sub saharan africans) that represent less than 1% of the population. source http://www.ndsc.ie/hpsc/A-Z/HepatitisHIVAIDSandSTIs/HIVandAIDS/SurveillanceReports/

Wow - the majority of AIDS cases is coming from countries where the AIDS virus is rampant? That's a shock - I would have expected it to just manifest itself out of thin air.

And in case you don't know, Africa has white people in it too, so testing people for AIDS who are coming from countries with a high AIDS rate isn't racism in itself - testing black people because they're black would be, though.