Romanian beggers

Stark

flogen wrote:

Of course I've seen those posts, but that's my point. When it's a white Irish guy, the individual is a scumbag. When its a Roma, the whole race are scumbags.

Roma aren't a race, they're a cultural group. Race wise, they're the same as the Romanians. And people here have been careful not to tar all Romanians with the same brush.

flogen wrote:

Yeah, and the point I made earlier was that you've probably encountered ten times as many Roma who weren't begging and may have been busy working, but you don't remember them because they didn't get in your face.

Unlikely. It's not the Roma culture to work. You're probably confusing them with regular Romanians.

flogen wrote:

Nobody has ever met a Roma gypsy who wasn't begging, scamming, hassling people or otherwise? That's one hell of a statement which you have zero ability to back up.

Some of them probably veer from their upbringing. It doesn't change the Roma culture though. Perhaps some people hate someone for simply being of Roma descent, and it's fair to call those people ethnicist or whatever. You can't call someone racist for despising aspects of a culture though.

C_Breeze

Duras wrote:

Of course Romanians and many Tigani that are here in Ireland come from the same land (Romania). But you wouldn't mix up the weed and the grass just cos they both grow on the same land in your lawn, would you?

Then why call Romanian beggars? Do I call Irish sheeps just cos there are a lot of sheeps here in Ireland? I don't...

When some other Romanian fella asks me about how Ireland and Irish are I don't tell them that you are round and furry, or that you are British travelers banished on the smaller island. I tell them that Irish are a friendly, jovial and pleasant people. When some ask about the myth of Irish being drunkards, I tell them about "the crack", I explain that having a drink and having fun does not mean that you are "drunkards".

I tell them that you have been one of the poorest European nations in the past (and this can be still seen when looking at the roads or medical infrastructure btw) but you have worked so hard that you are now one of the most successful nations in Europe.

I tell them that Ireland is a great place to live (oh if it wouldn't be the weather) and that the years I lived here helped me see things with different eyes.

Please do not mix up Romanians and Tigani any more... it makes our latino blood boil... If you don't know what you are talking about.... you'd be better of not talking.

Someone said previously that Romanians are not Gypsy (true) and that Romanians are as any other Eastern European country. Not quite...

Great post. A lot of people actually overlook these facts and I dont know why they find it so difficult to differentiate between roma gypsies and Romanians.

I know some romanians and they are all top people, and most of them would share you detest toward these beggers. I hate these scum as much as everyone else and had a few experiences with them myself, all 100% negative ofcourse.

Resenting these filth that provide no benefit to our or any society is only expectable ... but don't confuse them with the other 20 odd million romanian citizens... who in the past have contributed greatly not just to our society but to the WORLD! --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEdPoPkUsYc

gyppo

flogen wrote:

Nobody has ever met a Roma gypsy who wasn't begging, scamming, hassling people or otherwise? That's one hell of a statement which you have zero ability to back up.

Well, what about setting up a poll then? It would give some indication of peoples experiences with them.
However, methinks you might not like the results.

Brendygg

I havnt experienced these Roma beggers, but beggers in general i dont like. If travellers ever come to my house begging, or beggers on the street asking for money, i reply with the words "I dont reward failure" Seems to work. Harsh buts this is the real world.

MooseJam

Hitler thought the Roma were scum and a quarter million were exterminated in the holocaust

rachums

i work in a shop in town and the mothers send their Three year old children to run in and just grab stuff, but certain things and they'll run in looking around for it. These "beggars" train their children to be trained theifs by the age of eight. And i too have heard them asking for left overs in lemon. I feel sorry for them to be honest. It must be a very embarrassing thing to have to ask.

stevejazzx

Slow Motion wrote:

Really, you think ? I don't think that people expressing the opinion that they don't want people to come in to this country simply to beg and scrounge is them spouting paranoid fears ! It's their society and if they see someone detracting from it why shouldn't they complain about it, it's not as if this is such a perfect country that we need to import problems.

I've no issue with people objecting to whats going on the streets. They should, particulary when childern are involved. I was objecting to those who openly despise the 'roma' becasue of the situation. Hating and encouraging hatred of a whole culture of poeple is an nonsense way of addressing a problem it leads to exaggeration and lies.

humbert

Brendygg wrote:

"I dont reward failure"

Aside from being a bit snooty, I disagree that beggars are people that have failed. I dislike them because they'd rather beg than even try to earn money.

Bernard Hopkins

i actually quite like them ,........... yeah, i give over some money the odd time,.... the musicians are funny too.

i also give to irish drunks too,... some of which are good charachters, who cares if its booze they are buying ?

the one's to avoid are the junkie beggars,.... who beg with a whole different demeanour,... thru intimidation.

By the way,... one of the 5 pillars of Islam says that all good muslim's should give 3% of their income to the poor ( Zakat)
im not a muslim ,... but i think its fair enough for me to do it too.

B-Hop

Brendygg

It may sound a bit snooty but it works! maybe goin out begging instead of earning money is actually a failure?

philstar

MooseJam wrote:

Hitler thought the Roma were scum and a quarter million were exterminated in the holocaust

he felt the same way about the irish too, he said the irish are nothing but a nuisance...thankfully he did'nt get over here

Tha Gopher

A Spaniard I know was saying that in Spain, although their own arent too highly regarded, the foreign gypsies are thought of as worse. While the gypsies in Spain are renowned as being dodgy, according to him theyre not all bad, and the responsible in the community despise their eastern brethern from Romania etc for bringing an even worse name to them. Having said that Id rate our own travellers as an even shadier bunch, from my experience.

Niall - Dahlia

Think what you want of Romas, but they're not Romanians, and the Romanians here literally despise Roma Gypsies. I go out with a Romanian girl and she curses them every time she passes them. Her housemates (also Romanians) curse at the TV at them. They don't even speak the same language. They aren't exclusively from Romania. It annoys her that Gypsies represent Romanians to most Irish people. She works harder than any Irish person I know and her housemates work absolutely crazy hours.

Funnily enough on Romanian TV a few nights ago they were showing the "King and Queen of Gypsies" (probably not the right title but something like that), absolutely dripping rich; gold thrones, servants, jewels. A lot of gypsies have absolutely huge houses in Romania too apparently.

100gSoma

tbh wrote:

what's that got to do with anything? That's something I'd be proud of, if I was flogen. Much easier to run with the flock than to stand up for what you believe in.

Well I guess it has to do with most people not really interested in having that point of view impressed on them through patronising and sarcastic posts. Nice to see the mods looking out for each other though.
Honestly tbh, I don't like the 'race' line flogen is taking. I'm apparently racist because I am angry with Roma beggars. I cannot be angry about them without being equally angry about Irish beggers (who don't knock my door or car window) or else Im racist? Doesn't wash with me.

100gSoma

flogen wrote:

And in case you don't know, Africa has white people in it too, so testing people for AIDS who are coming from countries with a high AIDS rate isn't racism in itself - testing black people because they're black would be, though.

Oh, I did not know that. :rolleyes: How enlightening indeed. I was convinced it was skin colour that caused aids. Are you sure? whats your source about this?

Sarcasm can be fun can't it? NOT NOT. jesus...

I said nothing about black people. I'm trying to explain to you why so many people are waiting to play the "racism" card if you mention that most of our new HIV cases in Ireland are in people from sub saharan african descent (whether they be black or white). The fact is, not testing asylum seekers who come from countries with HIV prevalance rates as high as 25% is a bit negligent. The point is, Irish people have hangups about addressing issues like this and the Roma beggars for fear of being branded by one of the many people waiting to shout "RACIST!!!" People like this don;t actually know what racism is. They think its having any 'issue' with anyone not from their country or their demographic. It's not quite that simple.

SimpleSam06

100gSoma wrote:

The point is, Irish people have hangups about addressing issues like this and the Roma beggars for fear of being branded by one of the many people waiting to shout "RACIST!!!" People like this don;t actually know what racism is. They think its having any 'issue' with anyone not from their country or their demographic. It's not quite that simple.

Post of the week, tbh...

tbh

100gSoma wrote:

Nice to see the mods looking out for each other though.

Ah don't be talking boll0cks, Stark is a mod isn't he?

flogen

Stark wrote:

Roma aren't a race, they're a cultural group. Race wise, they're the same as the Romanians. And people here have been careful not to tar all Romanians with the same brush.

No, they're not the same as indigenous Romanians and they are a seperate race to that of the Romanian ethnic group.
Look here and you'll see that Roma make up 2.5% of the population in Romania while Romanians make up 89.5% - the Roma are an ethnic/racial minority in that country. Unofficial figures estimate that Romani people could actually make up 8% of the Romanian population, but the exact figure is irrelevant as they're ethnically and racially different and are still a minority in Romania. Roma are as similar ethnically or racially to indigenous Romanians as they are to indigenous Irish.

Romani people are almost certainly from the Indian subcontinent and have migrated across the world over the last 100 or so years. Yes, they can be found in Eastern Europe, but so can many races of people.

It's not hard to find these facts out and what annoys me is that people don't seem to be willing to even try to do so. What we end up with is an ignorant game of Chinese whispers where people just assume we have increasingly dangerous immigrants getting more and more benefits from the Government.

100gSoma wrote:

Oh, I did not know that. How enlightening indeed. I was convinced it was skin colour that caused aids. Are you sure? whats your source about this?

Sarcasm can be fun can't it? NOT NOT. jesus...

I said nothing about black people. I'm trying to explain to you why so many people are waiting to play the "racism" card if you mention that most of our new HIV cases in Ireland are in people from sub saharan african descent (whether they be black or white).

What are you telling me for? Because you think I'm one of them? If a country has a high HIV/AIDS incident rate then I don't see how it's racist to be cautious - nor are you denying people in need help.

The fact is, not testing asylum seekers who come from countries with HIV prevalance rates as high as 25% is a bit negligent.

So is having unprotected sex with untested people (who you don't know) - but I guess that's another day's work.

The point is, Irish people have hangups about addressing issues like this and the Roma beggars for fear of being branded by one of the many people waiting to shout "RACIST!!!"

Many Irish people obviously don't. I agree that people shouldn't be afraid to broach an issue that concerns them, but they should try and find the full facts first and realise that the actions of a handful is not representative of an entire ethnic group.

People like this don;t actually know what racism is. They think its having any 'issue' with anyone not from their country or their demographic. It's not quite that simple.

Fair enough - people can be like that.
That said, I believe it's racist to call an entire race scumbags just because a handful of them act like scumbags.

flogen

100gSoma wrote:

Well I guess it has to do with most people not really interested in having that point of view impressed on them through patronising and sarcastic posts. Nice to see the mods looking out for each other though.
Honestly tbh, I don't like the 'race' line flogen is taking. I'm apparently racist because I am angry with Roma beggars. I cannot be angry about them without being equally angry about Irish beggers (who don't knock my door or car window) or else Im racist? Doesn't wash with me.

I'm not having a go at anyone for being angry at Roma beggars - the problem I have is with people being angry with all Romani people because of the Roma beggars.

I've said it already, I think the aggressive beggars who use kids as props are scumbags, Irish, Roma, or whatever they are. I just don't assume all Roma are the same.

eth0_

NZdubstar wrote:

Yeah - Hitler and the good old Nazis killed tens of thousands of them. Not enough. To use the old cliche - I'm not racist BUT - I wish he had murdered them all. I'm all for final solutions. They're not in NZ though. There was one on abbey st near easons everyday, I wonder if she's still there, mumbling nonsensically, head toing and froing...

Ahhh Godwin's law in action.

I have a question - as these people are vagrants and most likely have no passport/papers, are they all here illegally? It certainly looks that way to me...

FX Meister

MooseJam wrote:

Hitler thought the Roma were scum and a quarter million were exterminated in the holocaust

Well if Hitler thunk it then it must be right? But maybe he was just after their gold teeth?

FX Meister

eth0_ wrote:

Ahhh Godwin's law in action.

I have a question - as these people are vagrants and most likely have no passport/papers, are they all here illegally? It certainly looks that way to me...

People fleeing persection do not have time to apply for a passport.

Gran Hermano

FX Meister wrote:

People fleeing persection do not have time to apply for a passport.

Persecution? I find it highly unlikely that a country like Romania would be
allowed to join the EU if it was engaged in human rights abuses against
it's citizens whether Romanian or Roma gyspsies. Roma gypsies are not
fleeing any persecution rather they are travelling here as EU tourists
(they only need visas to work here). The Irish government needs to
put some law in place to circumvent the opening which allows Roma
'tourists' to beg here. Any 'tourist' found begging here should be deported.

FX Meister

:cool:

flogen

Gran Hermano wrote:

Persecution? I find it highly unlikely that a country like Romania would be
allowed to join the EU if it was engaged in human rights abuses against
it's citizens whether Romanian or Roma gyspsies. Roma gypsies are not
fleeing any persecution rather they are travelling here as EU tourists
(they only need visas to work here). The Irish government needs to
put some law in place to circumvent the opening which allows Roma
'tourists' to beg here. Any 'tourist' found begging here should be deported.

Who says they're coming from Romania? They might be citizens of an EU25 country and as such don't require a visa, or they might be coming from outside the EU too.

As for a law, well the Government would need to make begging illegal again, and that would require a constitutional amendment. Or they could classify beggars as self-employed and then prosecute on the basis of not filing with Revenue, but that's even less likely to happen (as is probably as fraught with constitutional and legality questions).

Whatever law Ireland could enact, however, would be pointless. Assuming they're coming from Romania or Bulgaria then they can only be deported back there - nothing can stop them from coming back to Ireland the next day and Ireland would need to take a major step away from the European project to change that - that's just not going to happen, certainly not for this reason.

Assuming they're coming from outside the EU then Ireland is legally obliged to process their asylum application (that's if they make one) - that can take anything up to two years.

Assuming they're coming from the EU25 then they can't really be touched - no more than an Irish beggar can. At least that's how I understand the situation.

gurramok

If they are coming from Romania in sizeable numbers, what i don't understand why they do it.?
Maybe we are known to be gullible internationally?

Romania itself has 4.9% unemployment rate, about same as ours roughly and GDP growth of 7.7%.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania) BETTER than ours.

In other words, its booming over there, surely lots of dough to be found from unsuspecting hard working Romanian citizens in Romania itself for the beggars??

An up to date anti-begging law is needed here for whoever begs.

spooiirt!!

Whats the problem with pointing out that there are problems with immigrants. I live in Germany where immigrants are twice as likely to commit a crime and twice as likely to become unemployed.
Obviously theres nothing wrong with people coming to work/study in a country but when certain ethnicities cause serious problems you need to start sorting out the good from the bad immigrants.

What i hate are people who call me racist for saying that.

On the other hand I also hate peole who whine about asylum seekers driving BMWs paid for the taxpayer, which is bull...

Collie D

spooiirt!! wrote:

Whats the problem with pointing out that there are problems with immigrants. I live in Germany where immigrants are twice as likely to commit a crime and twice as likely to become unemployed.

So should we expect you to be on the dole and stealing, being an immigrant and all

Ruen

BigTommyBomb wrote:

If you think we Irish aren't very understanding of their lifestyle then you haven't talked to many other central europeans. They really hate them.

Ahh well thats okay then:rolleyes:

Ruen

gurramok wrote:

If they are coming from Romania in sizeable numbers, what i don't understand why they do it.?
Maybe we are known to be gullible internationally?

Romania itself has 4.9% unemployment rate, about same as ours roughly and GDP growth of 7.7%.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania) BETTER than ours.

In other words, its booming over there, surely lots of dough to be found from unsuspecting hard working Romanian citizens in Romania itself for the beggars??

Not really if they dont have much money.
That GDP growth is only higher in percentage than ours, it's nothing compared to ours in actual value.