Which wrestlers of the'80s or earlier would make it today?

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

Depends... he'd a couple of really good matches with Jericho at the end of 99. Also as Syxx he had an incredible ladder match with Eddie Guerrero at Souled Out 97 and his independant stuff as the Lightning Kid is worth checking out.

That wasn't when he was getting his own brand of heat though, was it?

ShawnRaven

The ones with Jericho in 99 certainly were, the crowd were getting sick of him being tagged with different guys and getting nowhere (Kane and Road Dogg).

VR!

gimmick

I cannot se how it could be seen tat JBL had X Pac heat. Sure people were completely bemused when he won the title, as he had, as mentioned previously, come off the back of doing nothing for his entire career (singles wise at least). Howver, I think he got the ball and ran with it, and his reign improved as it went on.

With Xpac, he was simply turn off TV. He was just completely bland and I could never take to him, not matter what his persona at the time. JBL, on the other hand - I enjoyed seeing him on TV, his character moreso than his ring work. He was the stereotype heel champion, who exuded cockiness which wound people up everywhere. I even began laughing at how his promos pissed off the live audience so much. I dont honestly see that the two, XPAC and JBL, can be compared as heels.

As for who he got over, well, he got Cena over, and I reckon thats all the WWE cared about at the time.

All the above being said, I prefer him as a commentator. Thats where he is at his best.

ShawnRaven

gimmick wrote:

As for who he got over, well, he got Cena over, and I reckon thats all the WWE cared about at the time.

Well he got Matt Hardy back over when he returned to SD after being buried by Edge for the 50 millionth time. That promo at Armageddon 05 is pure gold and had people actually caring about Prattitude for the first time in months.

Earlier that year, his feud with Big Slow put Wight back in the main event picture, when again, nobody gave a sh*t about him.

Of course, it's easy for people to for this, especially as us Internet Community have such short memories, as Vinny Mac would have you believe

VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

X-Pac heat is go away heat. When JBL came into the arena he was booed because people didn't want him there. That doesn't make him a good heel.

Were his matches good? No.

Did anyone get a rub due to a feud with him - No. He actually had to be carried a lot.

In my opinion the WWE knew that the fans hated JBL because they didn't feel he deserved the title and thus they purposefully kept the belt on him. His long reign became a huge part of his go away/X-Pac heat. There are similarities with the long IC title reign of the Honky Tonk man.

Fozzy wrote:

With heels like JBL and Edge back then, that emotional connection was present in most of their matches.

So explain Summerslam 2004 when the fans crapped all over a match that had The Undertaker in it.

Explain his dumb squashes where he destroyed guys like Funaki where people were leaving and where you could hear a pin drop.

He was a terrible champion and that reign was a joke.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

X-Pac heat is go away heat. When JBL came into the arena he was booed because people didn't want him there. That doesn't make him a good heel.

Were his matches good? No.

Did anyone get a rub due to a feud with him - No. He actually had to be carried a lot.

In my opinion the WWE knew that the fans hated JBL because they didn't feel he deserved the title and thus they purposefully kept the belt on him. His long reign became a huge part of his go away/X-Pac heat. There are similarities with the long IC title reign of the Honky Tonk man.



So explain Summerslam 2004 when the fans crapped all over a match that had The Undertaker in it.

Explain his dumb squashes where he destroyed guys like Funaki where people were leaving and where you could hear a pin drop.

He was a terrible champion and that reign was a joke.

The squashes are a typical booking ploy to put over a champ as a chicken**** heel who beats up a jobber and then brags like he's the best in the world, its a clasic booking tool thats been used for years. I rarely recall an episode of Smackdown where JBL was greeted with boo's in fact you could always rely on him to rise a crowd's ire with his promos.

Really, you're just repeating yourself and not doing a very good job of it, whereas everyone else is giving good solid fact based arguments to prove their point.

Oh and I think him jobbing to Cena at Mania is pretty much giving the rub to him after a year long reign, as has been pointed out already.......

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote:

The squashes are a typical booking ploy to put over a champ as a chicken**** heel who beats up a jobber and then brags like he's the best in the world, its a clasic booking tool thats been used for years. I rarely recall an episode of Smackdown where JBL was greeted with boo's in fact you could always rely on him to rise a crowd's ire with his promos.

Funny how they didn't have to do it for Edge or Triple H. He was given jobbers to beat for the simple fact that he was a mid-card talent given the belt and they had to try and build him up whisslt he had the belt.

flahavaj wrote:

Really, you're just repeating yourself and not doing a very good job of it, whereas everyone else is giving good solid fact based arguments to prove their point.

I have given 'good, solid fact based arguments' as well. The fact that you're getting your knickers in a twist and getting personal suggests I'm doing a better job of it than you are. After all, let's look at your recent contribution to the debate:

flahavaj wrote:

Yes but JBL IS a good heel thats the difference!!!!!!

Wow, great contribution there man. You should have just said 'Because'. It would sum up your 5-year old child mentality.

flahavaj wrote:

Oh and I think him jobbing to Cena at Mania is pretty much giving the rub to him after a year long reign, as has been pointed out already.......

How is that a rub when both men were unhappy with the match and felt it was too short?

Do you really think Cena got a rub from his feud with JBL? Please.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Funny how they didn't have to do it for Edge or Triple H. He was given jobbers to beat for the simple fact that he was a mid-card talent given the belt and they had to try and build him up whisslt he had the belt.



I have given 'good, solid fact based arguments' as well. The fact that you're getting your knickers in a twist and getting personal suggests I'm doing a better job of it than you are. After all, let's look at your recent contribution to the debate:



Wow, great contribution there man. You should have just said 'Because'. It would sum up your 5-year old child mentality.



How is that a rub when both men were unhappy with the match and felt it was too short?

Do you really think Cena got a rub from his feud with JBL? Please.

Jesus cool it lad, no one was getting personal!!!!

Regardless of the length of the match and whether he was happy with it or not, anyone who ends a year long World Title reign is going to get the rub on the basis of that achievement alone. Maybe the match could've been longer or better but the fact remains he was the first man to pin JBL clenly in a year I think that counts for an awful lot.

I don't think theres anything wrong with jobbers being fed to a chicken-**** heel champion and anyway its not as if it happened week in week out.

The reason I gave sucj a short answer as you have so kindly quoted is that the argument has just gone in circles and I didn't want to repeat thesame point over and over.

And finally, I'll repeat again, i wasn't in any getting personal with you, believe me, if I was you would know all about it! There's no need to be so touchy, I didn't insult you in any way. As opposed to your "5 year old mentality" jibe, you really should practice what you preach yanno?

Mr.Nice Guy

Well I saw no rub for Cena from the WM21 match. I felt the I Quit rematch was more impressive but I don't think Cena got a great rub from that really either.

As for the jobbers I recall it being a regular occurrence. I think it highlights that management still felt he needed a lot of work despite having the strap.

Perhaps I was being touchy with you before flahavaj. Sorry about that. Apologies for my jibe as well.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well I saw no rub for Cena from the WM21 match. I felt the I Quit rematch was more impressive but I don't think Cena got a great rub from that really either.

As for the jobbers I recall it being a regular occurrence. I think it highlights that management still felt he needed a lot of work despite having the strap.

Perhaps I was being touchy with you before flahavaj. Sorry about that. Apologies for my jibe as well.

Its all cool.:D

Also you said that they didn't use the same booking for Edge/HHH, well they cant use the same booking ploys for all champions. HHH was always booked as a fairly badass guy anyway, whether he was face or heel, he rarley backed down from a fight, Edge's thing was/is that he's a calculating opportunist (see the MITB x2) and JBL's thing was he was a guy who'd do ANYTHING to get out of a fight, he was booked to win so many main events so sneakily. Booking him Vs jobbers is only an extension of this, that doesn't make it a bad thing, just a different way of boking the guy.