RDF (FCA) service is it worth it ?

bunny shooter

This has started in another thread. Decided to start a new one. There must be serving, ex members out there ! Lets start with FCA to RDF, have things changed ? Where is RDF going in reality ? Promotion is non existant, except for officers, has the training got better ? Any other opinions, observations etc.

Irish_Army01

Yeah go for it..Wont be long before they get the opportunity to travel overseas..

bunny shooter

Irish_Army01 wrote:

Yeah go for it..Wont be long before they get the opportunity to travel overseas..

I am sick of hearing this. I am 39 on friday. I will never see overseas. This overseas thing is being bandied about like the provebial carrot for years. Most serving RDF members are not interested in overseas. We've careers, families etc. My job won't allow me to disappear fro 6 - 8 months and return as if nothing happened. I'd be replaced ! Most PDF don't volunteer for overseas ! they are detailed. PDF would love RDF overseas it would mean they don't have to go then !

Dave!

Relax mate, it won't be compulsary................

bunny shooter

DaveMcG wrote:

Relax mate, it won't be compulsary................

Says who ? TA in Britain (equivalant of RDF) are detailed for overseas e.g. Iraq !

testicle

Yes, that is a war.

The last time the Irish Army was in a war was in 1923.

Dave!

Plus the Minister for Defence mentioned in the following....
http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/Speech+ID/210C8CD6B11FEAAC80256FFC002BEB67?OpenDocument

"An important change recommended by the study of the Reserve is that members of the Reserve Defence Force should be considered for participation in overseas peace support missions subject to suitable qualifications, personal availability and appropriate advance training. As you know, in other countries service by reservists on overseas peace support missions is quite common."

"The security of civilian employment for the members of the Reserve who may wish to serve overseas will be considered as part of the ongoing implementation process."

After all the effort the DoD made to entice people to join, I'd say they'd be afraid of losing members.

bunny shooter

contrary to the "free clothing assocation" (fca) comments previously endured there is a seriouus shortage of uniforms. Equipment is 'hand downs' from the PDF, they get new kit, RDF get their knackered kit, our rifle are wrecked, we get the worst vehicles, the list goes on..............overseas is a diversion from the real situation and the real problems !!!!!!!!!!!!

We want equality in unifrom issue, acces to same career type courses e.g. sniper courses, driving courses, etc.

Personally I want to see payment for all time committed (TA get paid quarter days pay per parade night), paid for weekends etc., this would get attendance up and attract more recruits who are badly needed.

bunny shooter

dave mcg

You enlisted ?

Dave!

Nope. Will probs be enlisting soon though. Why?

OS119

bunny shooter wrote:

I am sick of hearing this. I am 39 on friday. I will never see overseas. This overseas thing is being bandied about like the provebial carrot for years. Most serving RDF members are not interested in overseas. We've careers, families etc. My job won't allow me to disappear fro 6 - 8 months and return as if nothing happened. I'd be replaced ! Most PDF don't volunteer for overseas ! they are detailed. PDF would love RDF overseas it would mean they don't have to go then !

if the reserve forces - by means of their training, equipment, leadership, employment protection and pay - are unable to mobilise in any situation short of one where the state would be forced to consider conscription anyway, i'm somewhat puzzled as to what the RDF is for.

reserve forces generally fall into two catagories: those used - like the UK TA and the US NG - as componant parts in a 'one army' that are constantly deployed to some degree or other as part of the day-to-day field strength of that Army, numbers vary according to operational tempo, but reservists are consistantly involved in Army operations as part of that Armys most basic operating functions. the second type of reserve force is very much a 'two armies' concept, one (regular) army that does all the 'normal' stuff - peacekeeping, minor wars, public duties and just 'being an army', and secondly the reserve army that only gets called out in the most dire, nation-threatening situation like the threat of invasion and while it may administer itself, it plays no part on the regular armys operations.

now given that there is no realistic likelyhood of either an internal or external threat requiring the immidiate availability of significant, trained re-inforcements to the PDF (type '2' reserve forces), and that - despite siren voices to the contrary - there seems no possibility that more than a handful of RDF personnel (realisticly the most unemployable) could take part in - or support - PDF operations either at home or abroad (type '1' reserve forces), one is very tempted to ask why they exist.

Irish_Army01

bunny shooter wrote:

I am sick of hearing this. I am 39 on friday. I will never see overseas. This overseas thing is being bandied about like the provebial carrot for years. Most serving RDF members are not interested in overseas. We've careers, families etc. My job won't allow me to disappear fro 6 - 8 months and return as if nothing happened. I'd be replaced ! Most PDF don't volunteer for overseas ! they are detailed. PDF would love RDF overseas it would mean they don't have to go then !

We are not detailed..its all volunteers except for maybe specialist jobs/corps when they can't get enough volunteers ie sigs/Mps/cooks/Officers.were talking 5 max outta a company of 120 men going over seas..the Df love travailing overseas and some guys have more service over seas than they do at home...

I'm didn't pull this out of my arse either..Its going to happen and very soon..

Tribunius

Right heres my 2c.

I have served in an infantry unit in both the FCA and RDF for the past six years. Admitedly I joined when the new stuff started to show up ie Dpm's and steyrs but still I have noticed an upward trend in equipment and training standards.

We do not always get the old knackered hand me downs. Most of the steyrs I have come across were brand new when the reserve got hold of them. Also when the new 60mm mortar system arrived they were brand new from the factory. I know I was one of the ones unpacking them. All of the gpmgs now coming on stream in the reserve were reworked to practically brand new standards. My unit has its fair share of newish vehicles.

All this is not to say there are not problems. Various parts of the uniform can be hard to get at times eg boots. This also happens in the PDF by the way. But it is much better than when I joined. I had only one shirt, trousers, smock, t-shirt, pair boots and pair socks for 3 years before I saw anything new. I mean there are 2* rank markings, people get issued tac boots all unheard of until 2 or 3 years ago.

You will get to doing training with the PDF it happens all the time. I'm just back from a week of it. I know for a fact there will be at least two other opertunities during the year to do it again.

Promotion is not just for officers. People move up the ranks all the time. Though most units are top heavy with senior nco's but time will sort that.

This thing of it being a drinking club is slowing being crushed and rightly so. Now don't get me wrong I'm not against people having a drink or two and having a bit of crack. But I don't want the person beside on the range to be half cut from the night before. Its just not on.

There is still plenty of BS like in all organisations. All I would say about it is ignore it and get the job done.

Also with this increase in gratuity coming along and it being based on ones performance I can see fitness tests on the horizon. All for the better its just not on for people to be unable to run even 200m without nearly having a heart attack.

Oh and on a sniper course or the like being open to the RDF there isn't much point yet. There are not many out there who could meet the requirements. The standard of shooting, fitness and field craft is just too low. Having said that I have met some of the instructors for that praticular course and they don't have a problem training us if we are good enough. And on people giving out about having to do four weeks of camp all these specialist courses are longer than that.

Irish_Army01

Tribunius wrote:

Right heres my 2c.

I have served in an infantry unit in both the FCA and RDF for the past six years. Admitedly I joined when the new stuff started to show up ie Dpm's and steyrs but still I have noticed an upward trend in equipment and training standards.

We do not always get the old knackered hand me downs. Most of the steyrs I have come across were brand new when the reserve got hold of them. Also when the new 60mm mortar system arrived they were brand new from the factory. I know I was one of the ones unpacking them. All of the gpmgs now coming on stream in the reserve were reworked to practically brand new standards. My unit has its fair share of newish vehicles.

All this is not to say there are not problems. Various parts of the uniform can be hard to get at times eg boots. This also happens in the PDF by the way. But it is much better than when I joined. I had only one shirt, trousers, smock, t-shirt, pair boots and pair socks for 3 years before I saw anything new. I mean there are 2* rank markings, people get issued tac boots all unheard of until 2 or 3 years ago.

You will get to doing training with the PDF it happens all the time. I'm just back from a week of it. I know for a fact there will be at least two other opertunities during the year to do it again.

Promotion is not just for officers. People move up the ranks all the time. Though most units are top heavy with senior nco's but time will sort that.

This thing of it being a drinking club is slowing being crushed and rightly so. Now don't get me wrong I'm not against people having a drink or two and having a bit of crack. But I don't want the person beside on the range to be half cut from the night before. Its just not on.

There is still plenty of BS like in all organisations. All I would say about it is ignore it and get the job done.

Also with this increase in gratuity coming along and it being based on ones performance I can see fitness tests on the horizon. All for the better its just not on for people to be unable to run even 200m without nearly having a heart attack.

Oh and on a sniper course or the like being open to the RDF there isn't much point yet. There are not many out there who could meet the requirements. The standard of shooting, fitness and field craft is just too low. Having said that I have met some of the instructors for that praticular course and they don't have a problem training us if we are good enough. And on people giving out about having to do four weeks of camp all these specialist courses are longer than that.

Good Post..well said.

arybvtcw0eolkf

bunny shooter wrote:

I Most PDF don't volunteer for overseas ! they are detailed. PDF would love RDF overseas it would mean they don't have to go then !

The vast, vast majority of PDF personnel volunteer for oversea's service. Its been along time since I've heard of someone being detailed.

As for RDF, yea its a good move for any lad (male or female). Regarding serving oversea's, please god not until I'm on my ticket

Irish_Army01

Mairt wrote:

The vast, vast majority of PDF personnel volunteer for oversea's service. Its been along time since I've heard of someone being detailed.

As for RDF, yea its a good move for any lad (male or female). Regarding serving oversea's, please god not until I'm on my ticket

I'd say most guys in the DF including myself served in the RDF..I have some great memories of my time..It was only 2 years service just before I join the PDF..long time ago now...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Irish_Army01 wrote:

I'd say most guys in the DF including myself served in the RDF..I have some great memories of my time..It was only 2 years service just before I join the PDF..long time ago now...

I served too. I served 5 year's in the 7th Inf Bn. Its gone now and called something stupid like the 63rd Res Bn.

bunny shooter

DaveMcG wrote:

Nope. Will probs be enlisting soon though. Why?

Thought so..............Compulsary.................you'll see what it means soon !!!!!!

bunny shooter

OS119 wrote:

if the reserve forces - by means of their training, equipment, leadership, employment protection and pay - are unable to mobilise in any situation short of one where the state would be forced to consider conscription anyway, i'm somewhat puzzled as to what the RDF is for.

reserve forces generally fall into two catagories: those used - like the UK TA and the US NG - as componant parts in a 'one army' that are constantly deployed to some degree or other as part of the day-to-day field strength of that Army, numbers vary according to operational tempo, but reservists are consistantly involved in Army operations as part of that Armys most basic operating functions. the second type of reserve force is very much a 'two armies' concept, one (regular) army that does all the 'normal' stuff - peacekeeping, minor wars, public duties and just 'being an army', and secondly the reserve army that only gets called out in the most dire, nation-threatening situation like the threat of invasion and while it may administer itself, it plays no part on the regular armys operations.

now given that there is no realistic likelyhood of either an internal or external threat requiring the immidiate availability of significant, trained re-inforcements to the PDF (type '2' reserve forces), and that - despite siren voices to the contrary - there seems no possibility that more than a handful of RDF personnel (realisticly the most unemployable) could take part in - or support - PDF operations either at home or abroad (type '1' reserve forces), one is very tempted to ask why they exist.

Now you've raised a number of excellent points..................

But this is the reality of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hard Larry

OS119 wrote:

now given that there is no realistic likelyhood of either an internal or external threat requiring the immidiate availability of significant, trained re-inforcements to the PDF (type '2' reserve forces), and that - despite siren voices to the contrary - there seems no possibility that more than a handful of RDF personnel (realisticly the most unemployable) could take part in - or support - PDF operations either at home or abroad (type '1' reserve forces), one is very tempted to ask why they exist.

My personal views as to why we have a reserve are

1) We've always had a Reserve in this country....the LDF were the forerunners of the FCA. Always handy to deseminate a bit of Military Knowledge to the local populus.

2) If Ireland was called upon to send a large body overseas or on security duies in ATCP at short notice then Reserves would be called up to handle Garrison Duties...I saw this first hand when Bill Clinton and Dubya Bush came to visit.

3) Its a great recruitment center for the PDF. Send teenagers in to train with guns and give them a taste for a career. And instills a moderate amount of discipline in otherwise unruly hormonal teens

4) The civilian labour skills within the Reserve would be a massive boost for the PDF in a crisis event...eg Paramedics, Doctors, Civil Engineers

5) There used to be absoloutley shag all to do in parts of rural Ireland except join the GAA team or hang around causing mischief. Hence why there are RDF posts and units in some towns and villages around the country. The Reserve was there to keep young'uns 'off the streets' so to speak

Just my two cents.

bunny shooter

Mairt wrote:

As for RDF, yea its a good move for any lad (male or female). Regarding serving oversea's, please god not until I'm on my ticket

please explain ?

Ruen

lol

bunny shooter

Tribunius wrote:

I have served in an infantry unit in both the FCA and RDF for the past six years. Admitedly I joined when the new stuff started to show up ie Dpm's and steyrs but still I have noticed an upward trend in equipment and training standards.

We do not always get the old knackered hand me downs. Most of the steyrs I have come across were brand new when the reserve got hold of them. Also when the new 60mm mortar system arrived they were brand new from the factory. I know I was one of the ones unpacking them. All of the gpmgs now coming on stream in the reserve were reworked to practically brand new standards. My unit has its fair share of newish vehicles.

All this is not to say there are not problems. Various parts of the uniform can be hard to get at times eg boots. This also happens in the PDF by the way. But it is much better than when I joined. I had only one shirt, trousers, smock, t-shirt, pair boots and pair socks for 3 years before I saw anything new. I mean there are 2* rank markings, people get issued tac boots all unheard of until 2 or 3 years ago.

You will get to doing training with the PDF it happens all the time. I'm just back from a week of it. I know for a fact there will be at least two other opertunities during the year to do it again.

Promotion is not just for officers. People move up the ranks all the time. Though most units are top heavy with senior nco's but time will sort that.

This thing of it being a drinking club is slowing being crushed and rightly so. Now don't get me wrong I'm not against people having a drink or two and having a bit of crack. But I don't want the person beside on the range to be half cut from the night before. Its just not on.

There is still plenty of BS like in all organisations. All I would say about it is ignore it and get the job done.

Also with this increase in gratuity coming along and it being based on ones performance I can see fitness tests on the horizon. All for the better its just not on for people to be unable to run even 200m without nearly having a heart attack.

Oh and on a sniper course or the like being open to the RDF there isn't much point yet. There are not many out there who could meet the requirements. The standard of shooting, fitness and field craft is just too low. Having said that I have met some of the instructors for that praticular course and they don't have a problem training us if we are good enough. And on people giving out about having to do four weeks of camp all these specialist courses are longer than that.

PDF then RDF i'd say ?

You may have unpacked mortars but have you been trained on them yet?

Tac boots....i was told not to wear them on exercises or the range

Weapons reworked ya PDF get new ones !

I will get to train with PDF.....Wow, was doing that 3-4 years ago !!!!!!! Don't appreciate being told i'm a sandbag !

promotion cpl for 9 years no vacancies for sgt !!!!!!! in my unit

my shooting & fieldcraft skills etc .................. don't fall asleep on exercise with me and my mates around ........... in & out and you won't even know ........ except you'll be looking for you're weapon !!!!!!!!!!

Shooting - Have All Army (RDF) trophies !!!!!!!!

Dave!

bunny shooter wrote:

Thought so..............Compulsary.................you'll see what it means soon !!!!!!

Good one, cheers

Hard Larry

bunny shooter wrote:

PDF then RDF i'd say ?

You may have unpacked mortars but have you been trained on them yet?

Tac boots....i was told not to wear them on exercises or the range

Weapons reworked ya PDF get new ones !

I will get to train with PDF.....Wow, was doing that 3-4 years ago !!!!!!! Don't appreciate being told i'm a sandbag !

promotion cpl for 9 years no vacancies for sgt !!!!!!! in my unit

my shooting & fieldcraft skills etc .................. don't fall asleep on exercise with me and my mates around ........... in & out and you won't even know ........ except you'll be looking for you're weapon !!!!!!!!!!

Mate this stuff happens in the Army too

I'm 60 Mortor qualified and haven't had the oppurtunity to do a conversion course yet

When the DF upgaded from Matterhorns to Haix boots...I had to take of the Matterhorns on my feet and hand them over in my stocking feet to the stores staff to get the Haix ones

I'm not sure about what you are referring to as 'Tac boots'...if you mean the new magnum-type boots we got issued then they are designated as a 'barrack boot' as opposed to the Haix boot which is to be worn during Tactical Exercises/Operations

The combined age GPMG Team that won the battalion shooting competion this year was YOUNGER than the GPMG itself.

If someone from the PDF called you a sandbag or refers to you as a sandbag again then report them using A7...the words will never pass his lips in public again.

RDF Integration training will be time consuming for those involved, meaning flexibility from work and home will be required...that won't suit some but the RDF have been asking for decent training for years. You can't just paw it off with " Well I can't do that training cause of work and my family'...what did you think was gonna happen? two hour stints in the Glen every Tuesday?

Promotion prospects suck in the DF too although they are getting better...it'll get better in the RDF, it has to or people will lose interest.

If you want to be taken seriously as an organisation then try passing on your knowledge of Fiedcraft to those junior to you instead of sneaking around in the dark and taking weapons off some kid whos probably never spent a night outside a bed before. That sh1ts not cool...its only cool to take weapons if a dumb sh1t is stupid enough to leave it behind them in the first place...then he/she should recieve the standard Size 10 Haix Boot to the Arse and it should be lesson learned.

A few years back I was at a questions and answers with the COS (think it was Mangan) A senior sergeant stood up in front of him and read him the riot act...told him how it is...No Drivers, No Vehicles, Too many Duties etc etc and what the COS said has stuck with me since that day...he said "Deal with it. You're a soldier. Do the best job you can with the tools you have."

Mick86

bunny shooter wrote:

Most PDF don't volunteer for overseas ! they are detailed.

That is incorrect.

bunny shooter wrote:

PDF would love RDF overseas it would mean they don't have to go then !

It won't make that much difference. The only RDF that will go overseas will be in appointments where there are insufficient PDF numbers. Medics and Military Police are the only roles I can see RDF people filling overseas.

bunny shooter wrote:

contrary to the "free clothing assocation" (fca) comments previously endured there is a seriouus shortage of uniforms. Equipment is 'hand downs' from the PDF, they get new kit, RDF get their knackered kit...

Again you are wrong. Every RDF person gets new clothing and boots. Used clothing is never re-issued under any circumstances. In general RDF weapons are in better condition that PDF ones because they aren't used as much.

bunny shooter wrote:

Tac boots....i was told not to wear them on exercises or the range...

When are you supposed to wear them?

bunny shooter wrote:

Weapons reworked ya PDF get new ones !...

How often do you imagine that new weapons are issued to PDF units? In my unit we've had the same rifles since 1989, the same GPMGs since the early 70s. Likewise the Brownings which are going out of service. The replacement pistol is being issued to both PDF and RDF units at the same time. Quite frankly you don't know what you're talking about.

bunny shooter

Mick86 wrote:

That is incorrect.



It won't make that much difference. The only RDF that will go overseas will be in appointments where there are insufficient PDF numbers. Medics and Military Police are the only roles I can see RDF people filling overseas.



Again you are wrong. Every RDF person gets new clothing and boots. Used clothing is never re-issued under any circumstances. In general RDF weapons are in better condition that PDF ones because they aren't used as much.



When are you supposed to wear them?



How often do you imagine that new weapons are issued to PDF units? In my unit we've had the same rifles since 1989, the same GPMGs since the early 70s. Likewise the Brownings which are going out of service. The replacement pistol is being issued to both PDF and RDF units at the same time. Quite frankly you don't know what you're talking about.

Hand-downs referred to equipment, not clothing, read it again.............

We buy our own Mendl boots, do you ? it's either that or wear sub standard rubbish !

Pdf have our weapons more often than us.

Don't know what I'm talking about..........you think ?

Tribunius

bunny shooter wrote:

You may have unpacked mortars but have you been trained on them yet?

Yes. Thats why I was unpacking it. Did the course during 2005.

bunny shooter wrote:

Tac boots....i was told not to wear them on exercises or the range.

If its the haix ones your refering to then whoever told you that has some funny ideas.

bunny shooter wrote:

Weapons reworked ya PDF get new ones !

Makes sense to me. The PDF ones will have a much harder life so they should get the new ones. I mean look at the brens many of them are in much better shape than the gpmgs currently in service with the PDF.

bunny shooter wrote:

I will get to train with PDF.....Wow, was doing that 3-4 years ago !!!!!!! Don't appreciate being told i'm a sandbag !

Never said you didn't or that it was a new thing. Just pointing out that it does happen. As for the sandbag thing well there is the A7 route a already mentioned but wouldn't do that myself. Its all a perception thing. Most PDF would have little to no contact with the RDF. All they here is stories, bad ones for the most part. So I would show them that they don't apply in this case. As the man said you don't get respect you earn it.

bunny shooter wrote:

promotion cpl for 9 years no vacancies for sgt !!!!!!! in my unit

Yeah that is a problem in most units. Made worse by the reorg but it will change with time. Age and increasing standards will take care of it.

bunny shooter wrote:

my shooting & fieldcraft skills etc .................. don't fall asleep on exercise with me and my mates around ........... in & out and you won't even know ........ except you'll be looking for you're weapon !!!!!!!!!!

Yeah thats great. All your relying on is sloppy sentries and knowing exactly where the opposition is located. What about the rest of it? Navigation, admin in the field etc. What about the rest of your unit? I'd bet they are not up to scratch just like mine and for that matter I ain't perfect with all that stuff either.

bunny shooter wrote:

Shooting - Have All Army (RDF) trophies !!!!!!!!

Fair enough well done. What about the rest of your unit? Going by the arps just gone by mine has a long way to go. I'd say thats true in all RDF units.

bunny shooter

Hard Larry wrote:

Mate this stuff happens in the Army too

I'm 60 Mortor qualified and haven't had the oppurtunity to do a conversion course yet

When the DF upgaded from Matterhorns to Haix boots...I had to take of the Matterhorns on my feet and hand them over in my stocking feet to the stores staff to get the Haix ones

I'm not sure about what you are referring to as 'Tac boots'...if you mean the new magnum-type boots we got issued then they are designated as a 'barrack boot' as opposed to the Haix boot which is to be worn during Tactical Exercises/Operations

The combined age GPMG Team that won the battalion shooting competion this year was YOUNGER than the GPMG itself.

If someone from the PDF called you a sandbag or refers to you as a sandbag again then report them using A7...the words will never pass his lips in public again.

RDF Integration training will be time consuming for those involved, meaning flexibility from work and home will be required...that won't suit some but the RDF have been asking for decent training for years. You can't just paw it off with " Well I can't do that training cause of work and my family'...what did you think was gonna happen? two hour stints in the Glen every Tuesday?

Promotion prospects suck in the DF too although they are getting better...it'll get better in the RDF, it has to or people will lose interest.

If you want to be taken seriously as an organisation then try passing on your knowledge of Fiedcraft to those junior to you instead of sneaking around in the dark and taking weapons off some kid whos probably never spent a night outside a bed before. That sh1ts not cool...its only cool to take weapons if a dumb sh1t is stupid enough to leave it behind them in the first place...then he/she should recieve the standard Size 10 Haix Boot to the Arse and it should be lesson learned.

A few years back I was at a questions and answers with the COS (think it was Mangan) A senior sergeant stood up in front of him and read him the riot act...told him how it is...No Drivers, No Vehicles, Too many Duties etc etc and what the COS said has stuck with me since that day...he said "Deal with it. You're a soldier. Do the best job you can with the tools you have."

The sandbag incident was a two star private, while I was his 2 i/c !!!! on a PDF exercise !!!!!!! Believe me we had a chat !!!!!!!!!!!!

On that front our local pdf barracks where we are stationed, trains pdf recruits and the pdf NCO's there have bottled them for talking to RDF personnel they served with prior to joining the pdf. I have seen this myself it is not hear-say !!!!!!!!!!!

Integration..........never work !!!!!!!!!!!

bunny shooter

Tribunius wrote:

Yes. Thats why I was unpacking it. Did the course during 2005.



If its the haix ones your refering to then whoever told you that has some funny ideas.



Makes sense to me. The PDF ones will have a much harder life so they should get the new ones. I mean look at the brens many of them are in much better shape than the gpmgs currently in service with the PDF.



Never said you didn't or that it was a new thing. Just pointing out that it does happen. As for the sandbag thing well there is the A7 route a already mentioned but wouldn't do that myself. Its all a perception thing. Most PDF would have little to no contact with the RDF. All they here is stories, bad ones for the most part. So I would show them that they don't apply in this case. As the man said you don't get respect you earn it.



Yeah that is a problem in most units. Made worse by the reorg but it will change with time. Age and increasing standards will take care of it.



Yeah thats great. All your relying on is sloppy sentries and knowing exactly where the opposition is located. What about the rest of it? Navigation, admin in the field etc. What about the rest of your unit? I'd bet they are not up to scratch just like mine and for that matter I ain't perfect with all that stuff either.



Fair enough well done. What about the rest of your unit? Going by the arps just gone by mine has a long way to go. I'd say thats true in all RDF units.

did 81mm mortar course in 97. never saw a 60. would like to.

the magnum boots.....

when we do enemy we are given grid reference for enemy and find them !!!!!

don't want my unit on the sniper course, just a few of us, that can shoot etc.

Captain Chaos

Is the RDF really getting issued with the new USP's. I thought that would only issued to the PDF.

Tribunius

Mick86 wrote:

It won't make that much difference. The only RDF that will go overseas will be in appointments where there are insufficient PDF numbers. Medics and Military Police are the only roles I can see RDF people filling overseas.

I'd say your half right. The minister said that members with specialist skills/training will be eligible. So i'd say Members of all the branches will be allowed go but they will have specialist training eg drivers, radio men, weapons crews etc.

Hard Larry

bunny shooter wrote:

The sandbag incident was a two star private, while I was his 2 i/c !!!! on a PDF exercise !!!!!!! Believe me we had a chat !!!!!!!!!!!!

On that front our local pdf barracks where we are stationed, trains pdf recruits and the pdf NCO's there have bottled them for talking to RDF personnel they served with prior to joining the pdf. I have seen this myself it is not hear-say !!!!!!!!!!!

Integration..........never work !!!!!!!!!!!

Proper order on behalf of the PDF NCO he's well entitled to bottle Recruits for talking to anyone outside his recruit platoon.

Recruits have a habit of getting a bit Bravado-ish in front of Old FCA/RDF comrades and without relaising it could say the wrong thing about the training or the training staff...'Loose lips, sink ships' as the Brits used to say in the War.

A recruit swanning over to some RDF personnel and running his mouth off is a lack of discipline on behalf of the recruit.

Edit: Sniper Rifles are on personal issue to Snipers not enough of 'em to supply to the RDF.

The Sniper course is way too intensive to be properly done within the RDF...unless you are willing to donate the time you won't get any benifit from the course

bunny shooter

Hard Larry wrote:

Proper order on behalf of the PDF NCO he's well entitled to bottle Recruits for talking to anyone outside his recruit platoon.

Recruits have a habit of getting a bit Bravado-ish in front of Old FCA/RDF comrades and without relaising it could say the wrong thing about the training or the training staff...'Loose lips, sink ships' as the Brits used to say in the War.

A recruit swanning over to some RDF personnel and running his mouth off is a lack of discipline on behalf of the recruit.

well, well, well, obviously pdf !!!!!!!

didn't realise pdf recruits are banned from talking to anyone outside thier platoon. Bit draconaian !

"loose lips............" thought we were in the same army? I was given security clearance too you know !!!!

He didn't swan over.......he was passing on his lunch break, as we were, and he stopped to talk to us !

Now what does the "wrong thing about the training staff" mean ? Lot of pdf recruits leaving during basic training......maybe I see why

Tribunius

bunny shooter wrote:

did 81mm mortar course in 97. never saw a 60. would like to.

Yeah its a handy little number especially if you have done the 81mm.

bunny shooter wrote:

the magnum boots.....

Was talking about the haix. Still the mangnum or some from of it is used as the op boot overseas in the warmer places. And if its all you got as it has to be in the case of most new privates then what are you to wear in its place. On a side note have seen more than a few PDF wear it on the ground.

bunny shooter wrote:

when we do enemy we are given grid reference for enemy and find them !!!!!

Fair enough but are all aspects of the skills required of an infantry man/section ic up to scratch. Thats what I was getting at.

bunny shooter wrote:

don't want my unit on the sniper course, just a few of us, that can shoot etc.

Fair point but say 5 people out of your unit have the required skills to pass it and ye do. What happens the next year or the year after? The five that could have and no one else is good enough. So why run the course at all if you will only have enough students for year or two at best. The resources would be better spent getting the standards of the unit as a whole up to par than focusing on a few. Also these course are long so unless you have a real understanding boss legislation will be needed and the man days will need to be increased. Once that is done and can be maintained then start with the real specialist stuff i.e. recce, sniper etc

dryle

I was in the FCA for about 5 years 2nd filed medics out of collins, yes they got crap from the pdf, only nco's could do weapons training. the uniforms were always new as well as the boots. the only downside then was we had to buy our own combats. luckily i had 3 bros in pdf so i got stuff from them when they were issued.

We were referred to as sandbags, fools carrying arms, fish and chip army but it was a bit of slagging, i took no offense and people who do shouldnt really be in it.

S&T is where they learn driving and i know they learned to drive trucks as 1 of my brothers was seconded to them.

Tribunius

The driving course is open to all. Its just harder for non mobile types to get on it i.e. medics, infantry, cis, engineers, pas etc.

The courses are run by either s&t or the cav an their needs come first because its what they do.

Hard Larry

bunny shooter wrote:

well, well, well, obviously pdf !!!!!!!

didn't realise pdf recruits are banned from talking to anyone outside thier platoon. Bit draconaian !

"loose lips............" thought we were in the same army? I was given security clearance too you know !!!!

He didn't swan over.......he was passing on his lunch break, as we were, and he stopped to talk to us !

Now what does the "wrong thing about the training staff" mean ? Lot of pdf recruits leaving during basic training......maybe I see why

Yep thats Recruit Training the most Draconian part of the Irish Army...its that Draconian even Draco himself is spinning in his grave.

Swanning over or passing on his break...its still lack of discipline.

Wrong thing about the training staff means he might say "the corporals are bastards" or words to that effect...joe bloggs from the RDF who was talking to the recruit says to a RDF Section Commander "I saw Billy Ballbag over near the canner...he said his Corporals are bastards" RDF Section Commander says it to a guy he knows in the PDF and word eventually gets back to the training NCO...that makes for one unhappy bunch of recruits...therefore the PDF NCO is nipping that whole can of worms in the bud by bottling the Recruit and putting him in his place. As should an RDF NCO.

Recruits leave the PDF for dozens of reasons...if one of those reasons happens to be "I left because the NCOs kept shouting at me" then IMO the NCOs have successfully done their job and weeded out another piece of Flotsam from the sea of Military Life.

Mick86

bunny shooter wrote:

Hand-downs referred to equipment, not clothing, read it again.............

I did. you specifically referred to uniforms and clothing.

contrary to the "free clothing assocation" (fca) comments previously endured there is a seriouus shortage of uniforms.

bunny shooter wrote:

We buy our own Mendl boots, do you ? it's either that or wear sub standard rubbish !.............

I don't think Meindls are up to the job. They have little or no ankle support and when they get wet they stay wet. Besides which I have an excellent pair of Matterhorns, a better pair of Haix and a pair of Magnums. So I can spend my money on other Gucci kit.

bunny shooter wrote:

Pdf have our weapons more often than us..............

Because they are poorer quality than the PDF ones do you think.

bunny shooter wrote:

Don't know what I'm talking about..........you think ?

Yes.

bunny shooter

Hard Larry wrote:

Yep thats Recruit Training the most Draconian part of the Irish Army...its that Draconian even Draco himself is spinning in his grave.

Swanning over or passing on his break...its still lack of discipline.

Wrong thing about the training staff means he might say "the corporals are bastards" or words to that effect...joe bloggs from the RDF who was talking to the recruit says to a RDF Section Commander "I saw Billy Ballbag over near the canner...he said his Corporals are bastards" RDF Section Commander says it to a guy he knows in the PDF and word eventually gets back to the training NCO...that makes for one unhappy bunch of recruits...therefore the PDF NCO is nipping that whole can of worms in the bud by bottling the Recruit and putting him in his place. As should an RDF NCO.

Recruits leave the PDF for dozens of reasons...if one of those reasons happens to be "I left because the NCOs kept shouting at me" then IMO the NCOs have successfully done their job and weeded out another piece of Flotsam from the sea of Military Life.

I'm a cpl and any rdf private i deal with reckons i'm a b'tard most of the time....not there to be popular... there to train them to the best of my ability...still i abide by the 3 f's!!!!

bunny shooter

bunny shooter wrote:

Equipment is 'hand downs' from the PDF, they get new kit, RDF get their knackered kit, our rifle are wrecked, we get the worst vehicles, the list goes on

Mick86,

no mention of clothing here ???????

Still reckon I don't know what i'm talking about ????

Probably ?!

testicle

bunny shooter wrote:

Mick86,

no mention of clothing here ???????

Still reckon I don't know what i'm talking about ????

Probably ?!

Judging by his rank and station, Mick86 knows exacly what he is talking about, which is a good deal more than you.


There is also no shortage of clothing.

bunny shooter

testicle wrote:

Judging by his rank and station, Mick86 knows exacly what he is talking about, which is a good deal more than you.


There is also no shortage of clothing.

shouldn't pull rank for others !!!!!!!!

RDF can't get any for new recruits at the moment, you must have it all!!!!!!

testicle

You can blame Mick86 for their lack of clothing so

I didn't mean to be pulling rank, or anything of that sort, by rank and station, I meant job...

bunny shooter

testicle wrote:

You can blame Mick86 for their lack of clothing so

I didn't mean to be pulling rank, or anything of that sort, by rank and station, I meant job...

not his fault, doing his best with no help from powers that be, same as rest of us.

My mistake....no hassle !!!!!!!!

Mick86

bunny shooter wrote:

Mick86,

no mention of clothing here ???????

Still reckon I don't know what i'm talking about ????

Probably ?!

I reckon you are one of those lads who is the bane of the DF both permanent and part-time. You'd rather whinge than get on with the job.

The RDF gets the same quality clothing, equipment and weapons as the PDF. In fact RDF units frequently have better quality and quantity of some items. For instance I know of an RDF unit which has over twice the peacetime scale of 81mm mortars and three times that of it's PDF neighbour. Another RDF unit of company size received X amount of brand new USP 9s while it's neighbouring PDF unit, over 4 times that size, did not get four times that amount of USPs. The only difference that I can see between PDF and RDF personnel is that you do not get a personal issue of web equipment. PDF recruits do. But guess what, of late they have been getting re-cycled webbing and I haven't heard any of them cribbing about it.

So to re-cap you were wrong about the majority of PDF getting detailed for overseas. You were wrong about the second hand clothing, wrong about the state of your weapons. That's three strikes and I haven't even gone back to check what else you were wrong about.

Tribunius

Mick86 wrote:

The RDF gets the same quality clothing, equipment and weapons as the PDF. In fact RDF units frequently have better quality and quantity of some items. For instance I know of an RDF unit which has over twice the peacetime scale of 81mm mortars and three times that of it's PDF neighbour. Another RDF unit of company size received X amount of brand new USP 9s while it's neighbouring PDF unit, over 4 times that size, did not get four times that amount of USPs. The only difference that I can see between PDF and RDF personnel is that you do not get a personal issue of web equipment. PDF recruits do. But guess what, of late they have been getting re-cycled webbing and I haven't heard any of them cribbing about it.

Well I don't know about that. Least wise the quantity of weapons in my units case is below that of our PDF bretherin. The quality thing is true most of the weapons are newer and are used less. As for plce, helmets etc its a mixed lot. Some of it is in good shape and some isn't. I'd say around 25-30% is rubbish (based on what happened the last time a large amount was drawn at one time) and needs to be binned eg snaps gone on pouches. Also there isn't nearly enough to go around but that will change come the introduction of iplcs. I just hope that whats handed over is serviceable.

Mick86

Tribunius wrote:

Well I don't know about that. Least wise the quantity of weapons in my units case is below that of our PDF bretherin. The quality thing is true most of the weapons are newer and are used less.

Well in the two cases that I quoted, I do know. And I'd be fairly confident that the same story would be repeated in many units due to the re-org.

Tribunius wrote:

As for plce, helmets etc its a mixed lot. Some of it is in good shape and some isn't. I'd say around 25-30% is rubbish (based on what happened the last time a large amount was drawn at one time) and needs to be binned eg snaps gone on pouches. Also there isn't nearly enough to go around but that will change come the introduction of iplcs. I just hope that whats handed over is serviceable.

Same across the board because the 91 pattern is going out of service and the remaining stock of it is sh1te. In any case webbing handed in by people leaving the DF was always re-issued where serviceable so bunny botherers assertion that the PDF gets brand new kit while the RDF gets ****e is rubbish. ATM everybody is getting ****e.

Fionn

to get back to the OP Q? is it worth it? the RDF

jasus...i dunno

is it not worth it?

perhaps its more acceptable to have the youth of the country messing around with firearms under controlled circumstances rather than with the scumbags!!
just a thought!

anyway - of course it's worth it - how many "free" countries don't have a volunteer reserve force whether it's half trained or fully trained or just on call - it makes perfect sense and it'd be stupid not to avail of such a force that would exist anyway and not have control of it!!
come on???

arybvtcw0eolkf

bunny shooter wrote:

Hand-downs referred to equipment, not clothing, read it again.............

We buy our own Mendl boots, do you ? it's either that or wear sub standard rubbish !

Pdf have our weapons more often than us.

Don't know what I'm talking about..........you think ?

1. We buy our Mendl's too, their not on issue to either RDF or PDF units.

2. Live with it. We work 45-80 hrs per week, you do 2 or 3.

3. You (still) don't know what your talking about.

You really think the PDF get all the gucci equipt?. You know our clothing issue isn't awhole lot different than yours, and we do this full time. Had I not served oversea's recently I'd still have on smock (combat jacket) and one pair of boots (plus a barrack boot) and one short sleeve and one long sleeve dry-flo T-shirts.

Going oversea's we usually have to supplement our kit, depending on the mission with upgraded sleeping systems, terminal's etc.

As regards our weapons, I've 22 yrs PDF service and have never clapped eye's on a brand new GPMG yet!.

Oh yea, you still don't know what your talking about.

Fionn

oh yeah i forgot

i'm more important than other peeps!!

:rolleyes:

go figure!!