Preferred Acoustic technique

Frankiestylee

Just wondering what way people generally prefer to record an acoustic guitar?

One straight take? Two condensor mics to give it a bit of a stereo feel? Two takes to make it sound like a duet? Etc...

I was thinking of doing two takes for songs that would suit it, I'm still waiting on pencil mics.

TelePaul

If it's a smoking hot guitar, then yes, two mics. I pretty much always use two mics, be they LDC or SDCs, I think the LDCs capture more room.

I'll go for one take if it's a rhythm track...anything else can get messy. You can invert chords and overdub but straight rhythm played exactly the same way twice is hard.

Strings.ie

Lately I tend to record in stereo 'X'. Getting some nice results with a matched pair of Rode NT5's. They have a slightly dark sound but I'm enjoying the results. They also work well in mono.

I used to double track my guitar parts. It can be a nice sound panning each take but variations in rhythm can sometimes sound a little messy - as always, depends on what you're after.

Frankiestylee

The twin mic thing sounds like the easier solution, but if you were able to produce pretty much the same performance twice, would two seperate tracks panned left and right be a better option? I wouldn't do it for the majority of my songs, but there are a few rhythm guitar bits that I've been playing for so long that I always hit them spot on... I'm getting all fidgety waiting for the twin mics to arrive

TelePaul

Frankiestylee wrote:

The twin mic thing sounds like the easier solution, but if you were able to produce pretty much the same performance twice, would two seperate tracks panned left and right be a better option? I wouldn't do it for the majority of my songs, but there are a few rhythm guitar bits that I've been playing for so long that I always hit them spot on... I'm getting all fidgety waiting for the twin mics to arrive

Well if you stereo mic a guitar you can achieve quite a full sound as it is...record the neck mic to one track and pan left, record the bridge mic to the other track and pan right. Timbre will be different, but the playing will be spot on. Slightly mismatched emphasis can work well though...like when one double tracks vocals. I think with a guitar you'll probably get a 12-string ish effect. You could also try transpose one guitar with a capo.

frobisher

I have spent hours and hours recording acoustic guitar in many different ways. I once did an article for Making Music Magazine going through them all. Not sure I remember it all at this stage though!

The sound of a good quality acoustic guitar with an almost set of new strings played in a room with flattering acoustics is one of my favourite in the world. With that in mind it's definitely possible to go the opposite of usual wisdom and have a very roomy and ambient sound and have something special. Although you really need to make it sure it suits the song, when it does it's magic. These days I go for the tight dead sound of a booth.

If you're only tracking one acoustic guitar track I'd say go with three or four mic's. My favourite was to put two SDC'c in an XY position between where the neck meets the body and the soundhole as close as I could get without the player getting annoyed. From I'd walk around the player while they played and find a spot where the guitar sounded better or more interesting than anywhere else and place and LDC there. Simple really. Recurring spots were pointing towards the front of the sound board towards the back about two feet out. Sometimes a similar spot AT THE BACK of the guitar, but closer, would give a thick sound that was pretty cool. Another place that would often be a real sweet spot for the third mic was over the players right ear (if the guitarist was right handed), again as close as possible without it being a distraction. This actually makes sense when you think that it's the distance and position that the instrument was designed to be heard by the person playing it. If in a tight space I'd leave it at that but if in a room I'd have a listen a good few feet out form the guitarist and if there's a nice sound anywhere chuck up another LDC. You've got to watch the phase on those two mic's of course, sometimes all the bottom one would be like undefined soup and then you reverse the phase and it's all back. Although you'll probably end up rolling it off in the sub 250hz area it's still best to get it as full sounding as possible.

These days for the sound I'm after with my music I actually record in mono with a high quality SDC and double or treble track each part. Often with the chords inverted. I even like the small movement you get from side to side when the playing isn't 100% tight. You get an interesting, full, wide posh sound with a lovely natural chorus. If you want to sound as much like a pro record as you can with home recording gear I'd suggest using this technique. For the inversions you can use a capo if you need (remember to re-tune though!), don't use a chart if you don't really need to, teaching the brain to transpose is useful!

Niall - Dahlia

For me it depends on how prominent the acoustic guitar is going to be in the mix which determines how I mic it. If it's very prominent, crucial to the song and there are delicate moments, I go for XY (a stereo bar saves alot of time I find). As frobisher says there's never any harm putting a third mic somewhere else in the room, particularly a LDC set to omni I find. It applies to anything you record. Put an experimental mic somewhere crazy! You never know what interesting sounds you'll capture. Just watch out for phase.

If the acoustic is less prominent I'll go for single mic mono, particularly if time is of concern. Has alot to do with the mics you have at your disposal too. One single well placed mic on an acoustic can obviously sound fantastic.

Good mic, good room, good guitar, good player...you'll get a good sound. Same with everything really. Ah but if only it were that simple.

TelePaul

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Good mic, good room, good guitar, good player...you'll get a good sound. Same with everything really.

+ good guitar!!

Niall - Dahlia

Oh by the way Frankie you're recording yourself with no real time contraints right? You really should try anything and everything. Try the XY. Try the mono. Try the double track. Try a microphone up the chimney. Take your time. That's the big addvantage with home recording, you're not put on a spot to make a decision that you have to stick with like you would be in a studio.

teamdresch

Royer 121 and an SD condenser.

frobisher

teamdresch wrote:

Royer 121 and an SD condenser.

Any chance of a lend of that Royer?

Frankiestylee

Oh, I do like the idea of a third mic placed somewhere in the room. The only problem I'm now finding is that I'm becoming painfully aware of random noises in my room....even the chair I'm sitting on has developed an annoying squeek I never noticed before.

On the continuing plus side... everything sounds sooooo much better in generally.


Would the SM7 be any use as a random room mic? Until the twin mics arrive I'm messing around with positions with a Beta57, sounds great at times. At the mo have two SM57s and a SM58 at my disposal if needs be.

teamdresch

frobisher wrote:

Any chance of a lend of that Royer?

Sure then I'd only have half a pair

Amazing mics.

Einstein

I'd normally use the Neumann TLM103 and an AKGC451...
depends on the feel of the song about recording it twice...if theres a backup band, maybe so, but if it's just songer/songwriter i'd stick to one take...

Dave

squibs

What Niall said - if it's a small cog in the mix, you don't want stereo, cos you'll probably want to pan it. You'll also be HPFing the nuts off it to let the bass and kick breathe, as well as possibly adding several dBs in the high end to give it definition to cut thru the mix. After all that, when soloed it will sound like pants anyway

If it's a really good guitar, one condensor can be really nice for an up-close and personal sound. Don't underestimate mono mixes - listen to Californication by RHCPs. Don't forget the importance of the room sound - wooden floor usually gives a nice ambience and can be controlled with a rug.

Frankiestylee

Hang on, what's HPFing? :P

feylya

High Pass Filtering?

frobisher

feylya wrote:

High Pass Filtering?

Hole in one.

Frankiestylee

Jaysis... I think I need to read a "Dummies guide to sound engineering" or something

squibs

No - I need to lay off using so many TLAs (there I go again)
Sorry.

Frankiestylee

That's it, yer gettin' a batin'!

frobisher

Frankiestylee wrote:

That's it, yer gettin' a batin'!

Also known as G.A.B.

Frankiestylee

Frobisher... I have to inform you you're now also on the list. :P