Production Diary

Niall - Dahlia

Production diary time! Similar to corn's Production Diary, I've got a session this Sunday that I've been looking forward to the past few weeks, so I'm gonna keep a pretty detailed account of everything that happens, including pics and samples. Mostly for my own benefit, but if people wanna read through it, offer suggestions and maybe even learn a few things, that'd be swell.

This started off as a normal session that I was gonna record with my own gear. Then it changed into a session with some nice rented gear. And now it's a full day session in The Engine Room at Pulse. Student rates of course!

So without further ado, down to business...


The Music

The band is Pristine Bliss (www.myspace.com/pristinebliss), a 3-piece alt rock band in the vein of Smashing Pumpkins, Placebo, and eh...Smashing Pumpkins!

They want a 3-song demo that they can give out at gigs. My personal goals are to make this my best recording to date by a long shot, something I can show without making excuses for this and that. The equipment is good, the band is good, the room is good, if something sounds ****e it'll be my fault, which is kinda cool actually.

I've seen the band live a number of times, they're tight and well practiced. The drummer is excellent, the singer/songwriter knows exactly what he wants, and the bassist...he's French.


The Equipment

Band Equipment

Pearl Masters Custom Kit
Pearl FB1465 Snare
Sabian 17", 18" Crash and China, 20" Zyjian Ride, Sabian 14" Hi Hats

Fender US Fat Strat
Marshall JCM-2000 TSL 601
Boss DS-2
Electro Harmonix Big Muff

Fender Bassman
Fender Precision


Microphones

Sennheiser 421 (x3)
Shure SM57 (x5)
Neumann U87 (x2)
Neumann TLM193
Neumann KM 84 (x2)
AKG 414 (x4)
AKG D112 (x2)


Outboard

Ahh...lots and lots of tasty outboard, none of which I'm gonna have time to twiddle with unfortunately! Might stick what I can through the Focusrite and Neve pres but I'm sure the pres on the Amek board will suffice. Full list of outboard here: http://pulserecording.com/engineroom/list.html


Recording Environment

Info on the rooms here: http://pulserecording.com/engineroom/design.html


Pre Production

We've finished the pre-production, having spent a day laying down guide guitar/vocal tracks on my own gear and sorting out click tracks. The sessions are ready to be imported onto Pro Tools at the studio so there'll be no messing about with setting that up. Time saved, woot!


Recording Plans

Since 10 hours really isn't alot of time to record 3 songs, I've got a fair idea of what mics I'm using on what, won't have much time to experiment unfortunately, so any suggestions and tips would be appreciated.

Drums

Overheads - AKG 414 spaced pair
Snare - SM57 Top and Bottom
Toms - Sennheiser 421
Kick - AKG D112 and Sub Kick
Room - 2 x U87's
Experimental - PZM duct taped to the drummers back

Guitar

Close - Sm57 and Sennheiser 421 (I'd like to hear the different between them close miking a guitar amp)
Distant - One of the LDC, a few feet away
Might also stick another condenser at the back of the cab or somewhere "inspirational"

Bass

Close - U87
DI

Vocals

U87


Mixing

The session is completely for recording, I won't be doing any mixing there, save for a quick rough mix at the end. As much as I'd like to I just won't have the time to patch in any of the outboard stuff. Pity really. Might be able to mix in another studio with some nice Avalon tube compressors though, I'll know that by the end of the week.


Thoughts/Opinions

I've a few things I wouldn't mind a few suggestions on, so if anybody can help out:

1. Thickening up the vocals. The vocalist has a pretty thin voice. I wanna thicken it up a bit. I'm thinking of the obvious double tracking, but also maybe sticking it back through the tube amp and miking that up, get a nice distorted sound I can layer underneath. Is that too much hassle when a plugin might do the same just as well? Any suggestions, especially in regard to anything that can be done with mic position/choice?

2. Big guitars. I wanna get as big a guitar sound as possible. BIG! I've set aside alot of the session for guitar work, I'd like to get 4 tracks of guitar down on each track. It's probably not realistic in one day over 3 songs, but we're gonna go for it! I'd just like some suggestions on miking the amp, should it be done in the live room with all the added reflections? Or in the dead room where I can keep it very dry? A couple of tracks with a moderate amount of distortion and then maybe one dirty grungy ultra-distorted guitar ala Bleach? Think Pumpkins, Cherub Rock, Geek USA. I know we haven't the gear and time, but I'd still like to get the best possible.

3. Drums. Again, take in alot of the live room or deaden it? I'm inclined to think dead because I want a really tight sound.


Full report with sound samples and pics first thing Monday morning!*

* Depending on post-session piss-up antics

brettzy

I can offer one piece of advise. Unless you are very familar with the outboard gear don't track with any EQ or compression. If you get it wrong there is no turning back! You can always apply it in the mix!! Especially since you only have 10 hours!!

ungratefuldead

Last time that i record in The engine room in ten hours we were able to put down only one song with a basic mix in ten hours.

there will be the house engineer to give you a hand?


For the drums......keep it live the live room they have got and incredible sound.....

You can double tracking the guitars and after you can add more overdub at your home with your gear..

Good luck and keep us update about the progress

teamdresch

Ok.

Here's what I'd do.

For the room, that's not a terribly comprehensive mic locker.
Bah.

Anywayz :

OHs - U87
Rack Toms - Oktava Mk012
Floor Tom - D112
Snare Top - Senn 421 with AKG 451 or KM84 taped to it, capsules aligned.
Snare Bottom - 451 / KM84
Kick - Senn 421 inside, 414/TLM 193 outside

MAKE SURE YOU GET THE MICS IN PHASE.

If you're gonna tape the PZM anywhere, I'd try the drummers chest.
Either that or stick it on the floor between kick and snare.

I'd stick up the B&K pair for room, but I'd also use the TLM193 or a 414, and put it through the 1176 on nuke for a nice smashed room sound.

I'd split out probably the snare and kick and run them through the distressor or 160x, so you end up with a compressed and uncompressed version of each. That way, if the settings you choose don't work, you don't have to use them, but the option is there.

Just use the desk preamps, way less complicated.

Bass - D112/421 and whatever LD condenser you have left over. Take a DI too.

Guitars - that pumpkins sound is 1000 overdubs. No time for that, so throw up a 421 and whatever condenser works well with it. Try the condenser up close and a foot or two back, whichever works best. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE TWO MICS IN PHASE.

10 hours is loadsa time to do 3 songs.
You just need to prioritise.
I'm taking it that you have the facility to do at least some overdubs after the fact, so you need to figure out what HAS to get done on the day.

1. Drums are pretty obvious.
2. Is either overdubs or vocals.
3. Is whatever's left. You'll have to decide which you can do at home or whatever. I'd do vocals last probably, since they'll most likely take longer to get right. It's also a bit easier to record screaming amps in a soundproofed studio with annoying the neighbours.

You said you have guide tracks done. That's grand, but there's a lot to be said for giving the band guys something to do, rather that sit on the couch and talk while you're trying to listen. So you turn up the monitors. And they talk louder. etc. etc. etc.

Get them playing, with their amps isolated. Even if you don't end up keeping the takes, it'll help the drummer and you'll get takes 900% quicker. Who knows, some of the takes might be good enough to keep.
If they are, you've saved a bunch of time.

If possible, get someone in for the first hour or two just to help you get set up, move mics and mic stands, that kinda ****. Once you're tracking, you'll be cool, but there's loads to be done in the first hour or two and the extra pair of hands would be gold.

Also, have you thought about which monitors you'll use?
I'd focus on one set, but reference the others from time to time.
Don't just use the mains all day, they'll sound nothing like what you're used to hearing.

Enjoy

teamdresch

ungratefuldead wrote:

Last time that i record in The engine room in ten hours we were able to put down only one song with a basic mix in ten hours.

Ehh, how?

Also, you won't have time to do a rough mix at the end of the day.
If you do, you haven't spent enough time recording.

brettzy

Snare Top - Senn 421 with AKG 451 or KM84 taped to it, capsules aligned.

Have to disagree with you there, I much prefere a sm57 on the snare.

You also mentioned the MD421 for the guitar cab, again the sm57 is a better choice for me. I alway found the MD421 too shrill on 4 x 12 cabs.

One other thing. Do you not think he'd be better off tracking without compression since he isn't very familar with this particular gear???

Niall - Dahlia

Excellent teamdresch, that's exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for, thanks alot.

teamdresch wrote:

OHs - U87
Rack Toms - Oktava Mk012
Floor Tom - D112
Snare Top - Senn 421 with AKG 451 or KM84 taped to it, capsules aligned.
Snare Bottom - 451 / KM84
Kick - Senn 421 inside, 414/TLM 193 outside

That's some interesting mic choices. Last time I recorded in the Engine Room we used AKG 414's. That was on the advice of the assistant engineer and the main engineer there. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion there's actually only one U87 in the studio at the moment, so that contributed to choosing the 414's. If there are 2 U87's I might stick 4 OH's up for comparison sake if I have the time...I'd like to hear the difference.

SDC's on the snare? I've never tried that, even with my own NT5s. Interesting. I imagine that'd give a very bright snare sound. I'll have to see how the snare sounds on the day. But I do like a 57 top and bottom.

I'll have a spare 421 since there's only gonna be one rack tom, so I'll see how that goes on the kick. I do like the D112 stuck right into the drum though with a LDC at the front.

Forgot to mention I'll stick a SDC on the hi-hat too.

teamdresch wrote:

If you're gonna tape the PZM anywhere, I'd try the drummers chest.

That was actually a joke! But, seeing as it has now been suggested, I can promise pics of a bewildered skinny drummer with a PZM stuck to his chest!

teamdresch wrote:

I'd split out probably the snare and kick and run them through the distressor or 160x, so you end up with a compressed and uncompressed version of each. That way, if the settings you choose don't work, you don't have to use them, but the option is there.

That's actually very good advice, I don't want to compress/EQ/gate to tape like brettzy said, but splitting so I have both options sounds like a plan.

teamdresch wrote:

Guitars - that pumpkins sound is 1000 overdubs. No time for that, so throw up a 421 and whatever condenser works well with it.

Yeah, I believe Soma has over 40 guitar dubs. I'm definitely gonna try a 421 on the guitar amp as well as a 57, it's something I've been curious about for a while, compare the two. Plan is to do 2 tracks of the main guitar riff/chords for each song. Once that's out of the way we'll lay down the solo/overdubs. Then if we have time, we'll go back and try to get 2 additional tracks down with a slightly different distortion. 4 overdubs of the main guitar is my goal.

teamdresch wrote:

I'm taking it that you have the facility to do at least some overdubs after the fact, so you need to figure out what HAS to get done on the day.

Yeah, I have a bit of a Pro Tools setup myself so it's no problem doing additional overdubs, but I really would like to get everything done on the day. The band really do know these songs inside out, I reckon it's doable. If anything gets the chop it's gonna be the bass. They always get the short end of the stick but there you go! If something disastrous happens and we're really stuck for time, then yeah, I'll drop the vocals in favour of squeezing in the guitar parts. I have a rough timetable:

10am-12pm - Initial setup of drums/amps. Miking of drumkit.
12pm-2pm - Drum takes.
2pm-3pm - Bass takes
3pm-6pm - Guitar takes
6pm-8pm - Vocal takes

teamdresch wrote:

If possible, get someone in for the first hour or two just to help you get set up, move mics and mic stands, that kinda ****.

The house engineer will be there at all times, though that's more if I run into a problem on the desk. I have a friend who's coming down to take pictures, but you can be sure he'll be shifting gear and stands within minutes! He;s into his sound too, so good hands.

teamdresch wrote:

Also, have you thought about which monitors you'll use?

Yeah I'll be using the Questeds.

Thanks again man, that got me thinking about a few things.

teamdresch

brettzy wrote:

Have to disagree with you there, I much prefere a sm57 on the snare.

I prefer 57s on some snares, but on the whole, 421s work better for me. I usually try both.

One other thing. Do you not think he'd be better off tracking without compression since he isn't very familar with this particular gear???

Like I said, record the clean and compressed snare to two seperate tracks.

teamdresch

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Interesting. I imagine that'd give a very bright snare sound. I'll have to see how the snare sounds on the day. But I do like a 57 top and bottom.

Aye, but if you have it taped to the dynamic, with the capsules aligned and in phase, then you can blend the two mics and get your snap from one and your crack from the other, or whatever.

ogy

only suggestions is maybe stick the spare 112 on the bass cab aswell and if you don't have time to re-amp the vocals maybe use a split cable put one track through the boss distortion pedal..

for the drums id definitely stick with 414s as overheads and u87s as room mics

maybe close mic the guitar cab with an LDC aswell as dynamics to give you the option of adding some high end without neccesarily muddying it up with more room sound

teamdresch

The problem I find with D112 on bass cabs is that big hole in the midrange on the mic. I tend to want midrange in my bass sound.

ogy

i meant combining the D112 with the DI'd signal and the u87 signal. i recorded some bass last week and combining DI, sm57 and a sennheiser 602 got a really nice sound.

brettzy

teamdresch wrote:

I prefer 57s on some snares, but on the whole, 421s work better for me. I usually try both.



Like I said, record the clean and compressed snare to two seperate tracks.

Ah, missed that. Good advise

Niall - Dahlia

Time to update this I guess!

I used pretty much the mic setup I had planned. Kit had 414 overheads, SM57s on snare, 421s on toms, D112 and Sub on the kick, U87 room mic. The house engineer suggested a U87 at the end of a tunnel (you can just about see it in the pic), but the cloth on the "tunnel" was so thin that it just sounded like a room mic...

Guitar amp had SM57 and 421 close, U87 distant (about 3 or 4 feet). Didn't like the 421 much, very brittle sounding, the SM57 was alot beefier.

Bass amp had DI, D112 close and U87 distant. Unfortunately the DI was dodgy and the amp didn't sound too great anyway, so we're recording the bass again (tonight actually).

Vocals were done on a U87.

We just about managed to get all 3 tracks down. I've been pretty busy the last 2 weeks so I've only got one track of this session about 80% finished (linked below), the other 2 are pretty much unmixed. Even with all that time I've been a bit rushed mixing it. So if anybody could have a listen and offer suggestions and advice it'd be much appreciated. The band will be giving their input tonight so I imagine the mix is gonna change alot anyway. I purposely haven't included any delays or effects (except for a bit of chorus on the guitars) because I know the band will want to be specific about that.

Will You Be Mine

Multumesc.

sei046

Watch tuning on vocals there. Thats not the sound i was expecting to hear from a TSL! will be interesting to hear the final mix. It will be tricky for you to get a big sound from that song i reckon. The ingredients are there but hte mix will take some tweaking. And the quiet bits will prob have to take on that Chasing cars vibe or whatever! Good luck with it anyway, look forward to hearing the result

teamdresch

The hi-hat is too loud, I think.
It sounds a bit washy too, but that might just be mp3-itus.
Just looking at you mic position in the pic there, I'd usually go something different.
You've got that mic pointing pretty much straight at the snare, and I'm guessing there's a good chunk of snare bleed in there.
I'll usually have a hihat mic pointing straight down at the hat, on the opposite side to the snare. Sometimes angled a little away from the snare. Sometimes a figure 8 angled away from the snare.

Those vocals need to be redone much more than the bass does.

The kit could use some embiggening, perhaps.

squibs

I really like it and seem to be alone in thinking it's close to finished!

The singer went off tune in a few spots, and it might help the cohesion of the mix if you can back off a little on the extreme panning on the kit. Its the sort of thing I'd buy.

Niall - Dahlia

Thanks for the feedback!

We have a few alternative vocal takes, I'm gonna be going through them with the singer to mix and match the best lines, though the singer was happy enough with the vocals last night. I agree that it's out of tune in places, and that it doesn't fit quite right in the mix, but we'll hopefully get a good composite take together.

sei046 wrote:

Thats not the sound i was expecting to hear from a TSL!

Can you elaborate on that? What were you expecting and in what way is it different?

teamdresch wrote:

Just looking at you mic position in the pic there, I'd usually go something different.
You've got that mic pointing pretty much straight at the snare, and I'm guessing there's a good chunk of snare bleed in there.
I'll usually have a hihat mic pointing straight down at the hat, on the opposite side to the snare. Sometimes angled a little away from the snare. Sometimes a figure 8 angled away from the snare.

Yeah you're right, there was alot of snare bleed into the hi-hat mic, but looking at that pic I'm almost certain that wasn't had I had the hi-hat mic! I thought I positioned it almost facing the camera, well away from the snare. That pic was taken after the drum takes were all down when the drummer was messing around, so the hi-hat mic was possibly moved then. But I like the idea of a figure of 8 with the null to the snare, I'll try that next time.

teamdresch wrote:

The kit could use some embiggening, perhaps.

I completely forgot to include the room mic in this mix. The drummer really loved the sound of that when we were recording, so I'm gonna see if that helps, and try some parallel compression too.

squibs wrote:

I really like it and seem to be alone in thinking it's close to finished!

Thanks squibs! No you're not alone, for what it's worth the band loved it when they heard it last night, so that's the main thing. I'm gonna keep working on it though, I'll post up all 3 tracks when they're finished anyway.

Thanks again guys!

Niall - Dahlia

The final mixes for anybody interested in hearing how it all turned out:

http://www.hoboaudio.net/severina/Severina.mp3
http://www.hoboaudio.net/severina/Will%20You%20Be%20Mine.mp3
http://www.hoboaudio.net/severina/In%20Another%20Lifetime.mp3

Overall I'm happy enough with how the songs turned out, it's not bad for 10 hours studio time. The band are very happy with it and at the end of the day that's what I want! They're in order of how they'll be on the disc and also in order of which I'm happiest with.

That's enough happy for one paragraph.

Any feedback and opinions would be appreciated, hope you enjoy the tracks.

teamdresch

Bear in mind, these speakers have NO low end, but..

Another lifetime..

Feels like it gets smaller when the band comes in.
Maybe look at having the intro quieter so there's more contrast between the sections.
Not a huge fan of the snare sound.
Too much bottom mic for my liking.
The snare also seems to overpower the rest of the kit, and is too high in the mix, I think.

The bass needs to do more than just provide low end in this song, I think.
The mix seems a little empty in places, maybe the bass could fill it out.

teamdresch

Severina..

The tom that's panned left sounds kinda thin/splatty. Can you get any more beef out of it?
The arpeggiated verse guitar (panned right).. could it maybe use some compression? It seems a little uneven in places maybe?
The solo could use more volume and I'd EQ it a bit brighter too.
Maybe try make the bass sound a bit more gnarly for its little solo bit after the solo?

teamdresch

Will you be mine..

Vox sound a little beefy in the intro.. too much 100/200/300hz or something. You could thin them out a little there, or even try something lame like filtering them towards a strokes/telephone sound end of things.

Snare loudness/brightness is bothering me again, but only in the verses really. Maybe eq differently for the verses and automate that sucker down a little?

teamdresch

NB - these are all things that are occuring to me on ****ty speakers, and are only meant as little tid bits for you to take a look at if you think there's any merit in them.
I ain't trying to make out that I know more than anyone else

Niall - Dahlia

Thanks for the feedback dresh. Yeah I agree with most of that. We had alot of trouble with the snare sound in Will You Be Mine, the drummer is very particular about it, though he was happy with the level throught the songs, and so am I really. I like the idea of the bass filling the song out more and more contrast between sections.

You're right about the floor tom needing a bit of beefing up, definitely needs a bit of EQ since all I have on toms at the moment is a HP filter.

Anyway we're doing one last mix session before I'm putting these to bed, so cheers again for the advice I'll see what I can do about all that was mentioned.

teamdresch

Where's the HPF on the toms?
There's a real lack of low end in the toms, beef that **** up!
If yer man is really attached to the snare sound, at least pull it down in the quieter sections of the songs, it's definintely too loud in those parts.