German Higher level

madnirvana

Im not very good at German it in L.C
was very good ar J.C though.

any ideas what gramer Qs is going to come up?

and the theme? SCHRIFTLICHE PRODUKTION
pleaseeeee:o

Nehpets

I don't think it's predictable. Make sure you can write for the letter or picture thing

nick23

Yeah its not predictable at all. Best way to practice is just to go back and do all the past papers. Theyre not amazingly difficult plus theyre quite good practice

NADA

Ok I got an a1 in higher german last year. I think the main things you should worry about knowing are the follow.

Adjective endings. Know what ending an adjective takes in each case when it follows a definate article, indefinate article or personal pronoun and no article. This is about three tables and once you do them you shouldn really make mistakes in the grammar section. Also know which cases prepositions take Know what order conjuctions take. When your writing stick to really simple sentences. For example your writing about your Hobbys. Ich spiele gern Fussball. Jeden Mittwoch spiele ich mit meinen Freunden. Wir spielen im Park. Es ist wichtig, dass man einen Art von Sport treibt. Man muss Fitt bleiben. You are more likely to make a mistake if you say Jeden Mittoch spiele ich Fussball im park mit meinen Freuden, weil es wichtig ist und es it mein Lieblingssport.

For the comprehensions in German it is Perfectly OK to take chunks from the text directly. I did! My teacher said I could! Some people find this hard to believe but you can do it almost without end!

cocoa

NADA wrote:

For the comprehensions in German it is Perfectly OK to take chunks from the text directly. I did! My teacher said I could! Some people find this hard to believe but you can do it almost without end!

Yeah, my teacher said we could as well but when I looked at the marking scheme, it said half marks for taking chunks out of the text (in the answering in german part). Do examiners just ignore this?

skeptic griggsy

I can be as convlo uted in German and other languages as I am in English!

NADA

mmm I wasn't aware of that in the marking scheme! interesting. MAybe change them a little tiny wincy bit! I dunno!! Actually take a look at last years marking scheme!

Edit: Just looked at it there. OK so it says "Evidence needed to show that candidates understood the question". Now I remember how this works actually. If they ask a quetion such as "Warum hat Bob Berlin verlassen?" and in the text there is something like Bob verliess Berlin, um ein neues Leben anzufangen und dieses Leben gefiel ihm." Here you could directly take Bob verliess Berlin, um ein neues Leben anzufangen but you should leave out the dieses leben gefiel ihm because it is irrelevant to the question. I fyou leave it out it shows that you understood the question! Understnad?

Nehpets

Yep, that's what my teacher said! ^

German... my orals went ok I think, hopefully the tape isn't bad

madnirvana

Nehpets wrote:

Yep, that's what my teacher said! ^

German... my orals went ok I think, hopefully the tape isn't bad

yeh tape, i never do good in it
the pauses are always sooooo short:mad:

my oral went so good hopefully the comprehention wont be that hard and long.

any ideas on wat themes going to come

cocoa

NADA wrote:

mmm I wasn't aware of that in the marking scheme! interesting. MAybe change them a little tiny wincy bit! I dunno!! Actually take a look at last years marking scheme!

Edit: Just looked at it there. OK so it says "Evidence needed to show that candidates understood the question". Now I remember how this works actually. If they ask a quetion such as "Warum hat Bob Berlin verlassen?" and in the text there is something like Bob verliess Berlin, um ein neues Leben anzufangen und dieses Leben gefiel ihm." Here you could directly take Bob verliess Berlin, um ein neues Leben anzufangen but you should leave out the dieses leben gefiel ihm because it is irrelevant to the question. I fyou leave it out it shows that you understood the question! Understnad?

yeah I see your point only the problem is that sometimes their questions are so vague or awkwardly put that it's hard to say what information they want or how much of it they want, so, ironically, you're left trying to give as much information as possible, while not saying anything that's not relevant to the question.

Drag00n79

NADA wrote:

Adjective endings. Know what ending an adjective takes in each case when it follows a definate article, indefinate article or personal pronoun and no article. This is about three tables and once you do them you shouldn really make mistakes in the grammar section.

Adjectives can either follow a definite article, an indefinite article (or possessive adjectives) or no article (or a number for instance). Not personal pronouns. As regards preparation for the 'Angewandte Grammatik' section I would also cover how to form questions from sentences where the answer is underlined. Most of these are easy enough but be wary of ones where a preposition is part of the underlined words. See previous papers for practice. Also make sure you know your regular and irregular verbs - again see past papers.

NADA wrote:

When your writing stick to really simple sentences.

That would be my advice to weaker students, however to receive a high expression mark (25 of the 50 marks) you need to use more complex constructions and perhaps use idiomatic expressions.

NADA wrote:

For the comprehensions in German it is Perfectly OK to take chunks from the text directly. I did! My teacher said I could! Some people find this hard to believe but you can do it almost without end!

This needs to be made clear. If candidates write 'extraneous material' in answering a question on a reading comprehension, the most marks you can receive are half. Extraneous material is a sentence or clause which is not relevant to the question asked. Its purpose is to stop candidates writing lines from the text which they don't understand but being lucky and getting the answer right. As the paper states the lines where the answer is, this could happen. So you cannot take chunks out of the reading without bearing this in mind.

Also, you could not take chunks from the text if it were to be written in the first person and the question were in the third person. In that scenario 'manipulation of the text' would be required. However, that has not been asked in a while.

As regards ideas for the 'Schritliche Produktion' section, the themes on the letters, essays and Äußerungen have been quite topical over the past 5 or 6 years, so I would bear that in mind. Hope that helps a bit!

NADA

Shamrok wrote:

Adjectives can either follow a definite article, an indefinite article (or possessive adjectives) or no article (or a number for instance). Not personal pronouns. As regards preparation for the 'Angewandte Grammatik' section I would also cover how to form questions from sentences where the answer is underlined. Most of these are easy enough but be wary of ones where a preposition is part of the underlined words. See previous papers for practice. Also make sure you know your regular and irregular verbs - again see past papers.


That would be my advice to weaker students, however to receive a high expression mark (25 of the 50 marks) you need to use more complex constructions and perhaps use idiomatic expressions.



This needs to be made clear. If candidates write 'extraneous material' in answering a question on a reading comprehension, the most marks you can receive are half. Extraneous material is a sentence or clause which is not relevant to the question asked. Its purpose is to stop candidates writing lines from the text which they don't understand but being lucky and getting the answer right. As the paper states the lines where the answer is, this could happen. So you cannot take chunks out of the reading without bearing this in mind.

Also, you could not take chunks from the text if it were to be written in the first person and the question were in the third person. In that scenario 'manipulation of the text' would be required. However, that has not been asked in a while.

As regards ideas for the 'Schritliche Produktion' section, the themes on the letters, essays and Äußerungen have been quite topical over the past 5 or 6 years, so I would bear that in mind. Hope that helps a bit!

Actually yeah I meant to say pronouns like his, her, my their , etc. What are these called? Anyway they follow the same table as the indefinate artikel. I actually thought in the writing the marked you on Grammar and Content rather than how complicated your sentences were?

Drag00n79

NADA wrote:

Actually yeah I meant to say pronouns like his, her, my their , etc. What are these called? Anyway they follow the same table as the indefinate artikel.

They're possessives or possessive adjectives.

NADA wrote:

I actually thought in the writing the marked you on Grammar and Content rather than how complicated your sentences were?

You are marked equally on content and expression. While expression most certainly covers correct use of grammar, it also includes spelling, punctuation, and as the name suggests, how you generally express yourself - including appropriate idiomatic usage. If someone is able to correctly express themselves by using a conjunction, or the passive voice or the subjunctive or an idiom their expression mark reflects this. That is only fair. I have attached a page from the marking scheme which should clarify it.Written Marking.jpg

Turnip2000

How long should answers be for the letter and the Ausserung?

I know it says like 100 and 160 words but my teacher has us writing nearly triple that.

Would you be marked down for writing too much?

E92

@NADA why did you say 'Jeden Mittwoch spiele ich Fussball im Park mit meinen Freuden, weil es wichtig ist und es it mein Lieblingssport'? Surley it is ,,Jeden Mittwoch........,weil es wichtig ist und mein Lieblingssport ist''? Or is my way wrong, and if so, why?

As for the Grammar Q, last year it was Fragewörter and bestimmten/unbestimmten Artiklen.

I would echo the comments of those who said that you should keep the language and sentences as simple as possible in the Schriftliche Produktion and Äußerung zum Thema sections to weaker candidates. But you have do to do better than that if you are aiming for higher grades. Like you could say if you find German difficult, in the letter section to last years section about Autofahren. Ja, ich finde Autofahren auch super. Ich fahre jetzt seit 8 Monate. Das deutsche System ist sehr streng. Das irische System ist viel leichter. Fahrschule ist nicht pflicht hier. Wir haben L-schilder. Wie ich weiss, das existiert nicht in Deutschland. Bevor man den Test macht,kann man hier allein fahren. (Yeah, I find driving super as well. I'm driving now for 8 months. The German system is very strict/difficult. Driving school is not compulsory here. We have L-plates. As I know, these dont exist in Germany. Before you do the test, you can drive alone here.)Thats 7 swentences. You should get a decent content mark for that. I think I made no mistakes there, but the expression mark wouldnt be that high, as I didnt use conjunctions, didnt have subordinate clauses in my sentences, and I took a fair share of my sentences structures from the letter. But far better to do it simply and right rather than complicated and wrong.

To get a very high expression mark and a very high content mark, you would have to say something like,

,, Jetzt fährst du mit dem Auto. Aber du darfst allein(alone), nur(only) wenn ein Erwachsener/eine Erwachsene(adult) von mindestens(at least) 30 Jahren im Auto mitfährt, oder(aren't you#)? Das ist so streng und schlimm! In Irland darf man immer(always) allein. Stell dir vor(Imagine), wir haben immer noch(immer noch = still) L-schilder(L-Plates)! Fahrschulunterricht(dsriving school lessons, its singular in German unlike in English) ist nicht pflicht hier. Man kann im Test durchgefallen(durchfallen=to fail), und ist immer noch erlaubt, allein fahren. Und dann sagen sie ,,es gibt zu viele Jugendliche, die auf den Straßen sterben". Sie geben uns die Schuld(Schuld geben= to blame), wenn sie Fehler(mistakes) machen. Ich weiß,dass wir nicht perfekt auf den Strassen sind, aber wir sollen fahren lernen(sollen = should, fahren lernen = learn to drive), wie ihr lernt zu fahren. Am diesem Moment ist es ein Scherz(Scherz=joke), wie man in Irland den fuehrerschein(drivers licence) bekommt. Ich will total, meinen Fuehrerschein machen".

Which means "Now you are driving. But you can only drive on your own, when an adult who hast been driving for at least 30 years drives with you, can't you? That's so strict and bad. You can always drive alone in Ireland.(not technically true, but its not a facts based exam, as long as you are talking about the issues brought upin the letter, that gets the cntent marks). Imagine, we still have L-plates in Ireland. Lessons in a driving school are not compulsory here[they are in Germany, there is no such thing as a lerner driver in Germany, hence why I mentioned the L-plates]. Ypou can fail the test, and are still aloud to drive alone. And then they say 'There are too many young people dying on the roads'. They blame us for their mistakes. I know we're not perfect on the roads, but we should learn to drive like ye(the Germans) learn how to. At this moment it is like a joke, how you get your licence. I totally want to get my driving licence."


Going back to the comprehensions, something as simple as changing the verb gets you marks. Like instead of Er darf ins Kino gehen, which is say in the text, why not say 'Er ist erlaubt, ins Kino gehen' in the answer. They both mean the same thing, but one will get half marks, and the oither will get full marks. Or use say 'anrufen' instead of 'telefonieren', 'konsomieren' instead of verbrauchen(to consume), funktionieren instead of 'klappen' etc. Even if they say in the text 'ich will' and you write back 'er/sie will' will get the extra marks as far as I know.
As for the adjectives and their endings, I wouldnt lose a nights sleep over them, though obviously the more mistakes you make, the more marks you lost. Our German teacher, who marks the papers some years told us that you have to make 5 mistakes before you lose marks eg saying der schöner Bier instead of das schöne Bier etc.

# .....,oder? If you want to end a question with isn't it, isn't he wasn't he, wouldn't I, won't he etc, you stick on oder at the end of a question. Or 'nicht wahr', but thats altmodische Deutsch or old fashioned German.

eg Morgen gehen wir in die Stadt, oder?(We'll go to town tomorrow, won't we?)
Du hast gestern gesagt, dass du in die Disko gehen würdest, oder?
(You said yesterday that you'd go to the diusco, didn't you?)
edited to put in some translations and to explain what oder at the end of a sentence means.

madnirvana

how do u guys answer the comprehention?

do u read first then answer or u read and when u find answer write it down?

i somehow spend more than 45 minutes on the comprehentions

any tips?

Nehpets

Stell dir vor = Imagine ?
Am diesem Moment ist es ein Scherz = At the moment it is a joke ?
erlaubt = allowed?

Just making sure, would be nice to know!

madnirvana

i used to be so good until the new teacher came in:(

Turnip2000

madnirvana wrote:

i used to be so good until the new teacher came in:(

Story of my life!!:(

E92

Nehpets wrote:

Stell dir vor = Imagine ?
Am diesem Moment ist es ein Scherz = At the moment it is a joke ?
erlaubt = allowed?

Just making sure, would be nice to know!

the answer is yes, yes and yes.
But what I said was ,,Am diesem Moment ist es ein Scherz, wie man in Irland den fuehrerschein bekommt'' which means "At this moment it is like a joke, how you get your licence".

Nehpets

Thanks.

Anyone know what Zankapfel means?

madnirvana

Nehpets wrote:

Thanks.

Anyone know what Zankapfel means?

Quarrel apple

anyways why are u guys talking about licence plates??

is it going to come up ?

Nehpets

Last year..

E92

Maybe, maybe not. Man würde nicht wissen. Es ist in dem Schriftliche Produktion Teil von letztem Jahr gewesen, wo man über Autofahren reagieren musste. Das konnte man schreiben.(you'd never know. It was in the Written Expression part of last years paper, where you had to react to car driving. That was something you could have said)

Gücke www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2006/LC011ALPO00EV.pdf an und schaue Seite 10 an, und du siehst was ich meine.(Look at the website above and look at Page 10, and you will see what I mean.)

spongebobgirl

1. Learn adjectival endings - don't sweat if you can't remember them, you'll only need them for the grammar section if you're asked to identify the gender of nouns or something.


2. Note that you write 13 sentences for the Ausserung and 25 for the S. P. Try not to go over that much - every sentence contains more potential mistakes!

Always include an opinion - 'Meiner Meinung nach, ist X wichtig...', 'Ich glaube, dass ich mochte X machen...' Include a general statement 'Das hat mir Spass gemacht' or something, when describing a holiday, trip or experience.

3. Use simple German and short sentences, you don't get extra marks for flowery stuff! Know present and past tense verb endings and past participles, 'ich bin gegangen' etc.

4. If you're a high-ability student, familiarise yourself with the passive form of verbs (don't confuse 'wird' with 'werden' - to become).

5. For the tape, know common verbs for the Nachrichten section - 'verhaften' - to arrest, and weather vocab.

6. Give more rather than less in the comprehensions - you never know what the marks go for, and beware of 'give details'. Try to alter the text in some way, but keep the German simple - 'Sie ist eine junge Frau'.

7. Make sure you get your grammar right when describing the photo in the S.P. - 'Auf DEM Bild sehe ich EINEN JungEN.' 'Junge (boy) changes to Jungen in the accusative. Similarly, 'Ich sehe einen Herrn' - Herr (gentleman/Mr.) takes an 'n' in the accusative.

8. Take a glance over the topics in your book, and test yourself by seeing if you have 3 good sentences to say on each topic - that's all you need. Pay attention to the topic on school - 'Wir leiden unter Leistungsdruck' - we're under pressure to achieve, and be able to desribe the points system. Prepare Urlaub too. And KEEP IT SIMPLE!

*That's all I've learned in my few years of German!* Good luck.

spongebobgirl

Nehpets wrote:

Thanks.

Anyone know what Zankapfel means?

Der Zankapfel = bone of contention, literally 'apple of discord'!

Don't worry about it, keep the German simple so you don't make mistakes!

Nehpets

Hmm what are the modul verbs like mocthe, sollte etc?

Is it "Ich sollte" and "Wir soll"

As in "Wir soll die Auslander mit Englisch helfen" make sense?

E92

spongebobgirl wrote:

1. Learn adjectival endings - don't sweat if you can't remember them, you'll only need them for the grammar section if you're asked to identify the gender of nouns or something.


2. Note that you write 13 sentences for the Ausserung and 25 for the S. P. Try not to go over that much - every sentence contains more potential mistakes!

Always include an opinion - 'Meiner Meinung nach, ist X wichtig...', 'Ich glaube, dass ich mochte X machen...' Include a general statement 'Das hat mir Spass gemacht' or something, when describing a holiday, trip or experience.

3. Use simple German and short sentences, you don't get extra marks for flowery stuff! Know present and past tense verb endings and past participles, 'ich bin gegangen' etc.

4. If you're a high-ability student, familiarise yourself with the passive form of verbs (don't confuse 'wird' with 'werden' - to become).

5. For the tape, know common verbs for the Nachrichten section - 'verhaften' - to arrest, and weather vocab.

6. Give more rather than less in the comprehensions - you never know what the marks go for, and beware of 'give details'. Try to alter the text in some way, but keep the German simple - 'Sie ist eine junge Frau'.

7. Make sure you get your grammar right when describing the photo in the S.P. - 'Auf DEM Bild sehe ich EINEN JungEN.' 'Junge (boy) changes to Jungen in the accusative. Similarly, 'Ich sehe einen Herrn' - Herr (gentleman/Mr.) takes an 'n' in the accusative.

8. Take a glance over the topics in your book, and test yourself by seeing if you have 3 good sentences to say on each topic - that's all you need. Pay attention to the topic on school - 'Wir leiden unter Leistungsdruck' - we're under pressure to achieve, and be able to desribe the points system. Prepare Urlaub too. And KEEP IT SIMPLE!

*That's all I've learned in my few years of German!* Good luck.

You're wrong about point 7, the ONLY time a noun adds on an 'n' at the end is the Dative Plural. Ich sehe einen Herrn is not right at all. Its 'Ich sehe einen Herr. You say 'Auf dem Bild sehe ich einen Junge', not einen Jungen.

You would say 'Morgen gehe ich in die Stadt mit meinen Freunden' (Tomorrow I'll go to town with my friends)

spongebobgirl

E92 wrote:

You're wrong about point 7, the ONLY time a noun adds on an 'n' at the end is the Dative Plural. Ich sehe einen Herrn is not right at all. Its 'Ich sehe einen Herr. You say 'Auf dem Bild sehe ich einen Junge', not einen Jungen.

You would say 'Morgen gehe ich in die Stadt mit meinen Freunden' (Tomorrow I'll go to town with my friends)

No no no, Junge and Herr are irregular nouns. You only add an N to plural nouns in the dative normally, but those two are one of three (+ 'Kollege') that are 'strong' nouns, they take an N even in the akkusativ.

spongebobgirl

Nehpets wrote:

Hmm what are the modul verbs like mocthe, sollte etc?

Is it "Ich sollte" and "Wir soll"

As in "Wir soll die Auslander mit Englisch helfen" make sense?

No no, it's 'wir sollen'. The modals are worth revising, they're so handy to use! It's ich solle, du sollst, er/sie/man soll, wir sollen. NB wollen... ich will, du willst, er/sie/man will, wir wollen.

Nehpets

So Mocthe, soll, will

Whats sie mocthen? :S argh I knew these perfectly only a few weeks ago